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Shaft Quality: Aftermarket/Mfr Upgrades


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I caved the head of my current driver yesterday while demoing some aftermarket shafts - so am now in the market for a new driver.

 

I was wondering if anyone had noticed any difference between aftermarket shafts and those offered by the club companies? In particular I'm looking at at Cobra's F7+ where they offer a Matrix Blacktie or Hzrdus Yellow both in 75 grams as a no charge upgrade. I had hit both at a demo day and had a pro walk past and mention that those shafts are never the same as the ones you buy separately. If anyone has any experience I would love to hear about it. Thanks!

 

 

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It depends.  Some are real deal aftermarket shafts and some are made for variants with a similar profile but might not be exactly the same.

 

In the case of the HZRDUS it is supposed to be the same shaft profile, but it's not the hand made version.  Not sure specifically on the black tie from Cobra.

Driver: :callaway-logo-1: Epic SZ w/ VA Composites Raijin 65 04

3w: :taylormade-small:'16 M2 hl w/ Diamana D+ 82

5w: :cleveland-small: Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Yellow

Hybrid: :cleveland-small: 22 deg. Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Black

Irons: :ping-small: 5i-UW G700 w/ X100 soft stepped once

Wedges: :cleveland-small: 54 & 58 CBX w/ Nippon Modus 3 125

Putter: :odyssey-small: Red 7s

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It depends.  Some are real deal aftermarket shafts and some are made for variants with a similar profile but might not be exactly the same.

 

In the case of the HZRDUS it is supposed to be the same shaft profile, but it's not the hand made version.  Not sure specifically on the black tie from Cobra.

 

The above is correct. I have a hand made Project X and when I took it to my fitter to pure it was absolutely perfect. Their is a reason why hand made shafts cost a lot more

In my bag:

Driver: :honma: TR20 460 9.5* Vizard TR20 60X

Wood: :mizuno-small: ST200 TS Dimana D+PLUS Limited Edition 70X

Hybrids: :mizuno-small: CLK 19* Tensei CK Pro Blue 80TX

Irons: :honma: TW 747 Rose Proto 4-PW Modus Tour 120X

Wedges: :honma: TW-W4 52*, 56*, and 60*Modus Tour 125 Wedge 

Putter: :seemore-small: Nashville Z1C 34"

 Ball: :bridgestone-small: Tour B X

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Interesting question.... went to a fitting recently and was fit into a Diamana and the fitter said that although the shaft looks the same it isn't always that case.

what do you mean, I said.

he said if you were to go into PGA superstore and buy the same club off the rack with (what looks like) the same shaft the characteristics will be completely different.

 

very, very deceiving.

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StrokerAce
:tour-edge: EXS 220 HZRDUS Smoke
:cobra-small:  King F7 3w Fujikara 
:callaway-small:  Apex 20 Catalyst 6.0
:callaway-small:  Apex 23 Catalyst 6.0
--------------------------
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:ping-small: Sigma G Kinloch C 
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:918457628_PrecisionPro: nx7 pro rangefinder
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Franklin, MA; Right Handed; 10
"the club face sends it, the path bends it..."

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Anything for a buck I guess... Frankly I don't care if it's hand made so long as it works for me. I just hate supporting deceptive tactics out of principle.

 

 

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At least in the Project X example they've been very up front about that shaft and it doesn't have the handcrafted logo on it.  Handcrafted version probably has tighter tolerances is the main difference.

Driver: :callaway-logo-1: Epic SZ w/ VA Composites Raijin 65 04

3w: :taylormade-small:'16 M2 hl w/ Diamana D+ 82

5w: :cleveland-small: Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Yellow

Hybrid: :cleveland-small: 22 deg. Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Black

Irons: :ping-small: 5i-UW G700 w/ X100 soft stepped once

Wedges: :cleveland-small: 54 & 58 CBX w/ Nippon Modus 3 125

Putter: :odyssey-small: Red 7s

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... Having discussed this with several shaft OEMs and club OEMs it is a tricky subject. Most of the shafts are exactly the same, unless they are hand made or special models. But I will use Cobra as an example when they offered a Matrix Red Tie as a stock made for shaft. 

... They loved the performance and overall profile of the Red Tie. But they found for the average golfer the Red Tie was a little too stiff overall and too stiff in the tip. So they had Matrix modify those attributes only, using the exact same materials and construction as the "real" Red Tie. They were very proud of the shaft but if those stronger players attempting to play the Cobra Red Tie compared it to the after market shaft, they would find more spin and a higher trajectory. Preferable for the average player but not what most better players need. One of the engineers told me he figured most really good players would probably re-shaft anyway. Keeping in mind the average golfer just hits the club and has no idea about head design, shaft design or performance, and decides whether they like it or not by how they hit it right of the shelf, the OEMs only get one chance so they make the shaft that is playable for the average player. 

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Driver:   TaylorMade SIM Max ... Diamana Limited 55R
Utility:   Callaway Super Hybrid 17*   ... Diamana Limited 65R
               TaylorMade DHy 19* ... Diamana Limited 65R
Irons:    4-Gw Titleist T100-S ... Steelfiber 95 r-flex
Wedges:  SM6 52* F Grind ... Steelfiber 95 r-flex
                 SM7D & SM8M 58* ... Steelfiber 95 r-flex
Putter:  Newport 2.5 at 33.5"
Ball:  TaylorMade TP5

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Guess it depends on the OEM but I have always been fit and bought the real deal shaft for my clubs. Heck I had the new Fuji Tour Specs in my 917s before they were available in the retail market.

 

 

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In the Bag for 2020

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PXG 0341X Gen 2 15* AD TP 7x

PXG 0317X Gen 2 19* KBS Proto 95x

PXG 0311T Gen 3 4-6 KBS $ Taper 130

PXG 0311 ST 7 - PW KBS $ Taper 130

PXG 0311 Sugar Daddy 50/10 KBS $ Taper 130

PXG 0311 Sugar Daddy 54/10 & 58/07 TTDG TI S400

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I think this is a great topic.  Clearly the stock shafts in drivers aren't exactly like a corresponding model that you might purchase after market.  That doesn't necessarily mean that it's a poor shaft just that it performs differently.  Its a shaft that will give the best performance for what the OEM deems to be the golfer who will be buying the product while giving the OEM the best opportunity to make a profit. 

 

Bottom line to this or any other dilemma is to go get fit if you're worried about it - we know that there are examples of players who love a certain shaft only to discover it doesn't work as well with another head so just go get fit or if you already know the shaft/head combo that works just order it that way rather than risking what might happen with the stock shaft of the same name brand.

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Ping G410 - set at 12 degrees, fade setting - Fujikura Motore X R flex

Ping G410 5-9 wood

G30 6-PW -  Aerotech FT 500 shafts

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At the end of the day it doesn't matter if it's "real" or "OEM" if it works it's the best choice overall.

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:titelist-small: TS3 8.75 with HZRDOUS Yellow and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:callaway-small: XR 16 3W & 5W with HZRDOUS Red shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:srixon-small: U65 4i with Fujikura MCI shaft and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: AP3 5-PW with Accra Tour 110i shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: SM7 50F, 54S and 60M grinds with Dynamic Gold 120 Tour Issue S400 and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:bettinardi-1: Queen B #6 with 34" Stability Shaft and P2 Aware Tour Grip.

:titelist-small: Pro-V1 Golf Ball.

Jones Utility Golf Bag.

Dormie Custom Headcovers.
Bushnell Pro X2 Laser Rangefinder.

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At the end of the day it doesn't matter if it's "real" or "OEM" if it works it's the best choice overall.

In one regard it doesn't matter, in another it could.

 

If you've been fit for say a Black Tie in the past and it works well, then you order the stock Black Tie and it's a slightly different profile it could be a very bad thing.

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Driver: :callaway-logo-1: Epic SZ w/ VA Composites Raijin 65 04

3w: :taylormade-small:'16 M2 hl w/ Diamana D+ 82

5w: :cleveland-small: Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Yellow

Hybrid: :cleveland-small: 22 deg. Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Black

Irons: :ping-small: 5i-UW G700 w/ X100 soft stepped once

Wedges: :cleveland-small: 54 & 58 CBX w/ Nippon Modus 3 125

Putter: :odyssey-small: Red 7s

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That's a good point.

 

I guess my point was assuming that you would leave with what "fits" if you think the OEM black tie is equal to the aftermarket option, then yes, they're not the same and that's bad. But that's also assuming you aren't being professionally fit for either choice and thus hitting the shafts.

 

Good point though man!

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:titelist-small: TS3 8.75 with HZRDOUS Yellow and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:callaway-small: XR 16 3W & 5W with HZRDOUS Red shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:srixon-small: U65 4i with Fujikura MCI shaft and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: AP3 5-PW with Accra Tour 110i shafts and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:titelist-small: SM7 50F, 54S and 60M grinds with Dynamic Gold 120 Tour Issue S400 and Black MicroPerf Best Grips.

:bettinardi-1: Queen B #6 with 34" Stability Shaft and P2 Aware Tour Grip.

:titelist-small: Pro-V1 Golf Ball.

Jones Utility Golf Bag.

Dormie Custom Headcovers.
Bushnell Pro X2 Laser Rangefinder.

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At the end of the day it doesn't matter if it's "real" or "OEM" if it works it's the best choice overall.

Absolutely, I need shafts that will work for my game, so I would definitely game shafts that cost $30 vs $300 if it fit my swing.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using MyGolfSpy mobile app

WITB:

 

Driver:   :cobra-small: F9 driver 9* stiff shaft 

FW Wood:   :cobra-small:  F9 wood 14.5* regular shaft

Hybrids:  :nike-small: Vapor Flex  3 hybrid regular shaft 

Irons:  :srixon-small: Z565 - 7 thru PW & ZU85 - 5 thru 6 with Recoil ZT9 F4 shafts                                            

Wedges:   :cleveland-small: RTX4 52*, 56*, 60* 

Putter:  Ben Hogan BHB01 blade

Ball:  :Snell: Black

Bag: 2015 Ogio Chamber Cart Bag & 2018 MyGolfSpy Stand Bag

 

 

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Absolutely, I need shafts that will work for my game, so I would definitely game shafts that cost $30 vs $300 if it fit my swing.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using MyGolfSpy mobile app

I wouldn't pay more for a name if a cheaper name worked

In my bag:

Driver: :honma: TR20 460 9.5* Vizard TR20 60X

Wood: :mizuno-small: ST200 TS Dimana D+PLUS Limited Edition 70X

Hybrids: :mizuno-small: CLK 19* Tensei CK Pro Blue 80TX

Irons: :honma: TW 747 Rose Proto 4-PW Modus Tour 120X

Wedges: :honma: TW-W4 52*, 56*, and 60*Modus Tour 125 Wedge 

Putter: :seemore-small: Nashville Z1C 34"

 Ball: :bridgestone-small: Tour B X

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I wouldn't pay more for a name if a cheaper name worked

I agree, however for me it's not so much about it working but as how the rep portrayed it. To be clear, Cobra themselves had nothing to do with it, but the rep was pretty evasive and based on what I have seen here, combined with some other research, was either deceitful or didn't know... And both of those are unacceptable to me.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

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I agree, however for me it's not so much about it working but as how the rep portrayed it. To be clear, Cobra themselves had nothing to do with it, but the rep was pretty evasive and based on what I have seen here, combined with some other research, was either deceitful or didn't know... And both of those are unacceptable to me.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

This post you say Rep, but your first post said pro.  To me those are two completely different guys.  A rep works for the company and should know better.  A course pro is just a guy who only knows what he's told.  If my course pro came by and told me something I'd take his advice on swing tips, but not when it comes to equipment.  I'm pretty well versed when it comes to that and trust my own knowledge & research.

 

Best to just understand that some "no charge" OEM shaft upgrades are the real deal and some are slightly different profiles from their aftermarket counterparts.  You have to do the research on each specific one to know which is which.

Driver: :callaway-logo-1: Epic SZ w/ VA Composites Raijin 65 04

3w: :taylormade-small:'16 M2 hl w/ Diamana D+ 82

5w: :cleveland-small: Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Yellow

Hybrid: :cleveland-small: 22 deg. Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Black

Irons: :ping-small: 5i-UW G700 w/ X100 soft stepped once

Wedges: :cleveland-small: 54 & 58 CBX w/ Nippon Modus 3 125

Putter: :odyssey-small: Red 7s

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The tough part that I have is that if I am a better player with a higher swing speed, most of the time I will have to pay more for a real deal shaft versus the watered down "made for" type that fits the average player.  When paying the now regular price of $500 for stock shafted drivers.  I guess this is the reason why I hit a 913D3 still.

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This post you say Rep, but your first post said pro. To me those are two completely different guys. A rep works for the company and should know better. A course pro is just a guy who only knows what he's told. If my course pro came by and told me something I'd take his advice on swing tips, but not when it comes to equipment. I'm pretty well versed when it comes to that and trust my own knowledge & research.

 

Best to just understand that some "no charge" OEM shaft upgrades are the real deal and some are slightly different profiles from their aftermarket counterparts. You have to do the research on each specific one to know which is which.

The rep was the guy from Cobra running the demo and telling me that these shaft upgrades are worth big money but they don't up charge for them, the Pro was one of the club pros walking past who told me he doesn't trust that statement. I apologize for any confusion.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

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In one regard it doesn't matter, in another it could.

 

If you've been fit for say a Black Tie in the past and it works well, then you order the stock Black Tie and it's a slightly different profile it could be a very bad thing.

I can't see a "slightly different" shaft being a "very bad thing". At worst it'll cost you a couple yards if the same shaft model is slightly different. A lot of the shaft fitting things this day is overblown. Ultimately it matters but a lot less than people think, if you buy something in the right family of shaft types with the correct flex and weight, you should achieve comparable results if you can make a consistent swing. People's swings are always evolving slightly so why would you think that the exact shaft you were fit for, still is the "perfect" fit for you.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

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