Clubs more upright

[Brian A]

So last night I did one of those Ping demo days fittings, and the Ping guy said that the reason Im slicing (well one of several) is my clubs arent upright enough, he said I need 2.75 degrees more. He didnt really explain what or why, but was more trying to sell me new irons (I went to look at the G Driver) Can someone help? Will this really help me? Couldnt I just take my current clubs to a golf galaxy or something like that and have them bend them? 

[revkev]

Yes playing with irons that are too flat or upright can cause issues for a player.

 

The good news is that you should be able to go to Golf Galaxy or any other reputable place and have them bent. Given that he was trying to sell you irons I would get refit first, perhaps there is some other issue with your current irons that is accentuating your slice. Maybe a different shaft or type of iron along with getting the proper lie and grip will turn that slice into a baby fade.

 

Wouldn't that be great?

 

Good luck and let us know what you decide.

 

 

 

 

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[Eseay32]

I have ping I's E1s from 2015. I kept noticing on my well struck shots they were out on the toe some. I got fit by a ping Rep a couple of months ago and we were tinkering. I went to one degree upright and you could see the ball coming right to center of the face. I also added 1/2 inch of length and irons couldn't be better. So absolutely if you are that upright then that could cause a ton of issues but you can also just get your old irons bent versus buying new. You need to get fit in your current irons though bc you might not need 2.75 but could need 1.5.

 

 

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[Brian A]

Gotcha, How can you tell if the fitter is a reputable one?

[jaskanski]

Gotcha, How can you tell if the fitter is a reputable one?

 

Ask to see their credentials - the same as you would for a plumber, mechanic or dentist.

 

Without knowing too much of what is actually going on, it's important to remember that fitting cannot fix swing faults (like a slice for example). Fitting for the correct lie angle ensures the cub face is square at impact - not pointing left or right of target. While this might improve your ball direction, it won't suddenly cure a slice. For swing faults, you need lessons. For equipment faults you need a fitter. It's that simple.

Just saying off the cuff that your lie angle is wrong is one thing, but saying it's the root cause of your ball flight direction and shape is another. 

If he/she is a certified Ping fitter than maybe we'll cut them some slack - if not, go seek another professional opinion.

[Brian A]

Ask to see their credentials - the same as you would for a plumber, mechanic or dentist.

 

Without knowing too much of what is actually going on, it's important to remember that fitting cannot fix swing faults (like a slice for example). Fitting for the correct lie angle ensures the cub face is square at impact - not pointing left or right of target. While this might improve your ball direction, it won't suddenly cure a slice. For swing faults, you need lessons. For equipment faults you need a fitter. It's that simple.

Just saying off the cuff that your lie angle is wrong is one thing, but saying it's the root cause of your ball flight direction and shape is another. 

If he/she is a certified Ping fitter than maybe we'll cut them some slack - if not, go seek another professional opinion.

This guy worked directly for Ping, so I assume he knew. I have TaylorMade irons I was going to get bent. I know my swing needs a lot of work, however hitting the pings that were more upright did seem to help the ball flight path on the simulator compared to my own irons

[jaskanski]

Simulators are OK, but they are no substitute to actually hitting outside and seeing how the club interacts with the turf and how the ball flight looks. This is where the lie angle becomes the most critical - exactly where you play golf.

Bending most iron sets isn't really a problem and reasonably cheap too, but if the set hasn't been specifically fit to you either in terms of length, weight, shaft bend point and flex, then it could be a wasted exercise.

Demo days are OK too, because they get the customer to try products to see what they like, but they are not really fitting sessions either. My recommendation would be to book a fitting session (with no obligation to buy) and see what your options are. If you can use your current set - great. But the chances are if you simply purchased or inherited them without being fitted, then your potential to improve is greatly reduced.

[dadivots]

Simulators are OK, but they are no substitute to actually hitting outside and seeing how the club interacts with the turf and how the ball flight looks. This is where the lie angle becomes the most critical - exactly where you play golf.

Bending most iron sets isn't really a problem and reasonably cheap too, but if the set hasn't been specifically fit to you either in terms of length, weight, shaft bend point and flex, then it could be a wasted exercise.

Demo days are OK too, because they get the customer to try products to see what they like, but they are not really fitting sessions either. My recommendation would be to book a fitting session (with no obligation to buy) and see what your options are. If you can use your current set - great. But the chances are if you simply purchased or inherited them without being fitted, then your potential to improve is greatly reduced.

Yes, yes, and yes...

A lie board in the hands of a good fitter and some outdoor balls where divots are seen can make a huge difference over sim.

[Eseay32]

I would def try to get on grass if possible. I would hit the ball off the lie board and smoked about 10 in a row. Moved the lie board and went to grass and hit the first one fat, 2nd one right, third left before Kinda dialing in lol

 

 

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[Kenny B]

This guy worked directly for Ping, so I assume he knew. I have TaylorMade irons I was going to get bent. I know my swing needs a lot of work, however hitting the pings that were more upright did seem to help the ball flight path on the simulator compared to my own irons

3 degrees is a lot to bend irons if they aren't forged.  They can break.  I had it done to a set, but they don't stay there and should be checked again mid-year.

[chisag]

... When I was on staff with Tommy Armour I fit a student for 845's at 2* upright. He had some clubs to trade in so he went to a local shop and was told he needed standard iies after being fitted at the store. I went thru another fitting with him explaining every step and he definitely needed 2* up. I called the shop and asked if they had any upright 845's in stock and was told it would be a special order and a at least two weeks to deliver. Tommy Armour HQ is in Morton Grove IL about 15 miles away from the store. No doubt they wanted to sell him what they had in stock. If you are unsure of the fitting, I would always get a second one. 

 

... That said, the Pings are usually custom order anyway so the chances he was trying to pull one over on you is probably slim. But since you would be playing a different iron anyway, I would get fit for something similar to what you are playing and see if the results are the same. 

[acemkr9]

Too flat causes a cut or slice to upright hooks and draws.

 

acemkr9

[Brian A]

So new development, went to get my wedges bent (the most they could do was 2 degrees, but I figured that's better than nothing). The fitter put a strip of tape on the bottom of my club and showed where I was impacting the heel, which he said meant the club was too upright, which dint make sense to me, so I had him bend the 7 iron 2 degrees upright (which he claimed would exaggerate my slice) We taped it up again and it moved the strike mark more towards the middle of the club, which is where I want the strike mark to be correct?

[mrsmith123]

So new development, went to get my wedges bent (the most they could do was 2 degrees, but I figured that's better than nothing). The fitter put a strip of tape on the bottom of my club and showed where I was impacting the heel, which he said meant the club was too upright, which dint make sense to me, so I had him bend the 7 iron 2 degrees upright (which he claimed would exaggerate my slice) We taped it up again and it moved the strike mark more towards the middle of the club, which is where I want the strike mark to be correct?

Apes, club lie is something that is important but there are some factors to consider. First, if you are slicing the ball with any irons or wedges this is an indication of not only the lie being too flat (toe of club impacts turf first causing face to open) but also shaft flex possibly being too stiff (not usually being the case). If you want clubs bent by a shop, consider if they are cast or forged. Cast clubs are made from different steel then forged and the process makes the steel harder. Cast clubs are designed with very specific specs and not meant to be bent. The hose could very easily crack and break, bending more than one degree is a risk.

 

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[Brian A]

Apes, club lie is something that is important but there are some factors to consider. First, if you are slicing the ball with any irons or wedges this is an indication of not only the lie being too flat (toe of club impacts turf first causing face to open) but also shaft flex possibly being too stiff (not usually being the case). If you want clubs bent by a shop, consider if they are cast or forged. Cast clubs are made from different steel then forged and the process makes the steel harder. Cast clubs are designed with very specific specs and not meant to be bent. The hose could very easily crack and break, bending more than one degree is a risk.

 

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They are the 2016 M2, so I think they are cast. He did bend them 2* more upright.

 

My swing with the driver is >105 so they put me in stiff steel shafts. Im slicing bad to the right but the club impact showed the heel of the club was making impact? So now I'm confused.

 

I know theres no miracle fix but lessons and practice but trying to not make it harder on myself

[jaskanski]

If your tendency is to slice, then your club face is probably open at impact - so the heel will impact the ground first anyway - even if the the lie is correct. Going further upright may make the heel tendency even greater, but get the club face maybe pointing further back on target. It's basically a quick and easy "fix" to lessen a bad scenario in the first place. The sensible thing to do would be to isolate the root cause of the problem first before moving on to something which will in turn have a knock-on effect with another.

get your slice under control first before you decide to do anything with lie angles.

[HighFade]

2.75 is a lot! I'm tall and only have 2° up. In my opinion, the flat lie will cause a lot more pushes than slices. And I never liked buying a $1,000 set of clubs based on 3 swings in a simulator or on a board.

[Brian A]

2.75 is a lot! I'm tall and only have 2° up. In my opinion, the flat lie will cause a lot more pushes than slices. And I never liked buying a $1,000 set of clubs based on 3 swings in a simulator or on a board.

 

Exactly, thats why I got them refitted and bent a little to see if it fixed the problem. 

 

How tall are you? Im 6ft and he measured to my wrist

[HighFade]

I'm 6'4" but my wrist to floor is close to normal (long arms?)

[null]

You should never have your clubs bent on a static fitting. Bending should be done based on impact position during swing

[Kor.A.Door]

Should have about 20-25 swings to see if your swing pattern is the same. 2-3 swings isn't going to give enough feedback to show if it is consistent enough to warrant bending he club. I am 6'4" and mine are bent 2 up, 2.75 up is a crazy amount. It's hard to say if there will be a benefit to making them upright. If the slice is caused by a bad swing then you will slice anyway. If you have a consistent swing and the ball fades then taking a look at bending them up can help adjust that. Go with what you see and feel.

[fozcycle]

The wrist to floor measurement is the first place to see if the adjustment is needed. Mine is 30.5" for my 5'7" frame so a 2* Flat is in order. My last three sets have been 2* Flat and it makes a big difference. Just saying that the measurement is a place to start. .....a way to check the fitter.

 

You can google to find the chart.

 

 

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[DawgDaddy]

Gotcha, How can you tell if the fitter is a reputable one?

One thing you can do is ask the better players at your club or in your circle of friends.  They most likely have a recommendation of a good fitter.  Also google is your friend.   Good luck. 

[Brian A]

Played yesterday after having them adjusted 2* upright. I hit my irons better than I ever have before. Couldnt hit my wedges or 3 wood, so shot one of the worst rounds. I liked the 2* upright though, ball seems to go a lot farther. 

[Eseay32]

Played yesterday after having them adjusted 2* upright. I hit my irons better than I ever have before. Couldnt hit my wedges or 3 wood, so shot one of the worst rounds. I liked the 2* upright though, ball seems to go a lot farther.

May want to dig in on the wedges a little more. Everyone is now doing all these special grinds and moving things to heel and toe and flat sole/deeper sole etc. so while the irons may be great at 2, wedges might need something a little different.

 

 

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[Rtracymog]

So new development, went to get my wedges bent (the most they could do was 2 degrees, but I figured that's better than nothing). The fitter put a strip of tape on the bottom of my club and showed where I was impacting the heel, which he said meant the club was too upright, which dint make sense to me, so I had him bend the 7 iron 2 degrees upright (which he claimed would exaggerate my slice) We taped it up again and it moved the strike mark more towards the middle of the club, which is where I want the strike mark to be correct?

It sounds like this guy was clueless. The heel shot is the worst one. It's the slowest moving part of the club and adds spin; not a good combination for distance. I wouldn't just go strictly with the lie board because it can be easy to cheat. I would have him place some impact tape on the face and put a straight line on a ball. When you hit it, the line should be straight up and down. If it's leaning one direction or the other, the club needs to be adjusted.

 

 

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