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LPGA Tour Lexi Thompson Ruling!


ole gray
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This absolutely s..ks! If spite of something that would have dragged most players down she had a recovery. Personally if I was Ryu I wouldn't feel good about this finish. She won it on a technicality.

 

 

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I remember when it happened but like seemingly everyone else, especially in this country, I wrote it off as Sandelin being Sandelin. For those who don't know who he is, the guy is certifiably crazy and that's being kind! Sandelin also had a well publicized dust-up with Lee Westwood the following year that was ironically at the same event as the dust-up with O"Meara.

 

He once played a 60 inch driver at St. Andrews and used a 52 inch driver for the majority of his career.

Claiming kindness while publicly maligning anyone (certifiably crazy?) doesn't jive with me, sixcat.

 

My point, Mark O'meara was embroiled in a nearly identical scenario. Irrefutable video documentation was provided and Mark decided to stand behind an explanation of intent knowing full well it flew in the face of the rules of golf. He made his choice and has subsequently been left off the Ryder Cup coaching roster; form what opinions you may.

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Personally I think there should be absolutely no allowance for TV viewers to call in what they consider as an infraction.... 

 

This is where I disagree. 

Regardless of whether or not the player saw or recognised the infringement at the time, an infringement still occurred. It doesn't suddenly cease to be an infringement if nobody but one person saw it either. If that one person just so happens to be a viewer at home and after review the penalty is confirmed, then according to the rules of golf, the penalty should be applied. 

Nobody is above the rules of golf and the argument that no advantage was gained, it was a harmless oversight etc simply are not an excuse. Ignorance of the rules isn't an excuse either.

Clearly, professional golfers make mistakes regularly just the same as the rest of us, but the rest of us seldom have such larger sums of money riding on where we come in a tournament. It is therefore in the professionals own interests to make sure they know the rules or at least seek a ruling from the referee on hand with every group to assist in decisions. Frankly, there should be no excuse for any professional golfer to make such a basic error in an act that they perform over 100,000 times a year, such as correctly marking the ball. 

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This is getting out of hand.... :-)

 

While I agree with you that an infraction is an infraction regardless of who saw it, we have to draw the line somewhere. Where exactly that like is, I don't know. But I do know that the next day is NOT the time to point it out or incur a penalty.

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Claiming kindness while publicly maligning anyone (certifiably crazy?) doesn't jive with me, sixcat.

 

My point, Mark O'meara was embroiled in a nearly identical scenario. Irrefutable video documentation was provided and Mark decided to stand behind an explanation of intent knowing full well it flew in the face of the rules of golf. He made his choice and has subsequently been left off the Ryder Cup coaching roster; form what opinions you may.

Put your faith in another human being and you will, in time, be disappointed.  

 

Be that as it may, opinions vary.  I call 'em like I see 'em!

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This is getting out of hand.... :-)

 

While I agree with you that an infraction is an infraction regardless of who saw it, we have to draw the line somewhere. Where exactly that like is, I don't know. But I do know that the next day is NOT the time to point it out or incur a penalty.

 

There is of course one sure-fire way of stopping people calling in rules infractions - and that is to stop making rules infractions.

I'm pretty sure if surgeons operations were televised too, then a lot fewer needles and watches would be found inside patients post op.

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I played horseshoes competitively and if you stepped over the foul line the scorer and/or your opponent would let you know. You take your licks and throw another one. Video "evidence" is hard to argue with. Just needs to be reviewed by the appropriate people.

 

If I'm playing for a major purse, and I'm in 2nd you betcha I'll be watching the 1st place like a hawk.

 

I'm ready for the Masters, who's with me? [emoji3]

 

 

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This is where I disagree.

Regardless of whether or not the player saw or recognised the infringement at the time, an infringement still occurred. It doesn't suddenly cease to be an infringement if nobody but one person saw it either. If that one person just so happens to be a viewer at home and after review the penalty is confirmed, then according to the rules of golf, the penalty should be applied.

Nobody is above the rules of golf and the argument that no advantage was gained, it was a harmless oversight etc simply are not an excuse. Ignorance of the rules isn't an excuse either.

Clearly, professional golfers make mistakes regularly just the same as the rest of us, but the rest of us seldom have such larger sums of money riding on where we come in a tournament. It is therefore in the professionals own interests to make sure they know the rules or at least seek a ruling from the referee on hand with every group to assist in decisions. Frankly, there should be no excuse for any professional golfer to make such a basic error in an act that they perform over 100,000 times a year, such as correctly marking the ball.

So if I see an obvious holding penalty or pass interference in the super bowl I should be allowed to call in the next day to alter the outcome of the game? I don't think so. Keep the public out of professional sports. If a penalty is not incurred during current round of play, the round should be deemed complete.

 

We can agree to disagree as I am very firm and actually pissed that viewers are allowed to affect outcomes of championship matches. Heck maybe Barney Fife should be peeping around the bushes on the Euros during The Ryder Cups and reporting back to Andy! [emoji23]

 

 

 

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So if I see an obvious holding penalty or pass interference in the super bowl I should be allowed to call in the next day to alter the outcome of the game? I don't think so. Keep the public out of professional sports. If a penalty is not incurred during current round of play, the round should be deemed complete.

 

We can agree to disagree as I am very firm and actually pissed that viewers are allowed to affect outcomes of championship matches. Heck maybe Barney Fife should be peeping around the bushes on the Euros during The Ryder Cups and reporting back to Andy! [emoji23]

 

 

 

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Didn't say anything about football! The point is, at every point the ball is stationary (which is the majority of the time) a ruling or decision can be made. In football, it can't.  I should add that in golf, a player has the opportunity to go back and correct their error if they make one. In football you can't. And golf tournaments are against multiple competitors rather than one opponent, so the outcome for all those competing is a little more complex.

The rules are golf are very clear and are not open to ambiguity, self-interpretation or flexible application.

If you made a rules infringement, whether or not you were immediately aware of it or not, you should be liable to the appropriate penalty. And that also applies after the round. Don't even get started about pros who sign for wrong cards....

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Didn't say anything about football! The point is, at every point the ball is stationary (which is the majority of the time) a ruling or decision can be made. In football, it can't.  I should add that in golf, a player has the opportunity to go back and correct their error if they make one. In football you can't. And golf tournaments are against multiple competitors rather than one opponent, so the outcome for all those competing is a little more complex.

The rules are golf are very clear and are not open to ambiguity, self-interpretation or flexible application.

If you made a rules infringement, whether or not you were immediately aware of it or not, you should be liable to the appropriate penalty. And that also applies after the round. Don't even get started about pros who sign for wrong cards....

 

Yea so allow an appropriate designated rules official to make the call during actual play. It's stupid to allow a spectator (who could possibly be betting on a particular player not to succeed) to call in and alter the outcome of the entire tournament.  You're arguing about a rules infraction and I get that point.  I'm arguing to keep random fans out of the picture which is a totally different aspect.

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This is such crap. She handled herself with class. Armchair officials should not have a say in an event.

 

 

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Yea so allow an appropriate designated rules official to make the call during actual play. It's stupid to allow a spectator (who could possibly be betting on a particular player not to succeed) to call in and alter the outcome of the entire tournament.  You're arguing about a rules infraction and I get that point.  I'm arguing to keep random fans out of the picture which is a totally different aspect.

 

Whilst most referees are on hand to make decisions - and I'm fairly sure they would do pretty much everything they could to make sure the player avoided any potential penalty - they are not allowed to issue advice on the course of play. They can indeed answer a direct question about the rules, which the player has every opportunity to do at any point, but just as the players themselves are unaware of any infringement it's still just as possible for the referee to miss it too.

So if anybody has evidence of an infringement occurring, then it must be treated with the same level of scrutiny as would any other rules breach. The fact that it happens to be someone watching on tv is irrelevant.

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2 separate issues here.

 

Lexi's mark and replacement of her ball. She did it, it was obvious and in the current rules should be a penalty.

 

Some asshat emailing in the rules infraction after the round and not being assessed until mid next round. That's just brutal.

 

I'm with the other guys. Once a rules official signs the card it's done. You catch something later than that and congrats you got away with one.

 

And please don't allow any call in or emails. The players and rules officials on the course are good enough we don't need outside assistance.

 

 

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100% agree. Spent several years as rules official. Absolutely it was an infraction of rules. Her partners didn't call it, spectators didn't call it, she didn't call on herself, and no one viewing audience did at that time. Does that make it right, NO.

 

But to come in the middle of next round should not be allowed. She gained no advantage from it, 99% it was not intentional.

 

If message arrived next wed, do you go back and redo the whole thing? Has to be a point where it is closed. No other sport does this, why here?

 

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100% agree. Spent several years as rules official. Absolutely it was an infraction of rules. Her partners didn't call it, spectators didn't call it, she didn't call on herself, and no one viewing audience did at that time. Does that make it right, NO.

 

But to come in the middle of next round should not be allowed. She gained no advantage from it, 99% it was not intentional.

 

If message arrived next wed, do you go back and redo the whole thing? Has to be a point where it is closed. No other sport does this, why here?

 

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Once you go down that route, then where do you stop?

I know I certainly wouldn't want to be the player who was remembered for winning a tournament where there was clear evidence that I made a breach and got away with it. How does that make the runner up feel?

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Whilst most referees are on hand to make decisions - and I'm fairly sure they would do pretty much everything they could to make sure the player avoided any potential penalty - they are not allowed to issue advice on the course of play. They can indeed answer a direct question about the rules, which the player has every opportunity to do at any point, but just as the players themselves are unaware of any infringement it's still just as possible for the referee to miss it too.

So if anybody has evidence of an infringement occurring, then it must be treated with the same level of scrutiny as would any other rules breach. The fact that it happens to be someone watching on tv is irrelevant.

 

 

Ok so in conclusion we have come to the reality that you are in favor of fans calling in, and I am opposed.  I think it would be interesting to see what the majority of people on here are in favor of.  Maybe a poll would be of interest?

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Sure why not?

The whole point is that golf tournaments are won and lost on very small margins sometimes. 

Sometimes that is outrageous luck, sometimes that is painful misfortune, sometimes that is brilliant skill. sometimes it is a woeful error.

Whatever the outcome, it should never ever be at the expense of, or despite of the rules of golf.

We, as golfers, have a simple mantra to uphold: honesty, integrity, courtesy. We are actively encouraged to do the right thing at all times. This incident, although unfortunate from one perspective, had a positive outcome in that the rules were not compromised and the honesty, integrity and courtesy part of the game were upheld in one form or another by more that a few different individuals. Nobody really came out as a loser - certainly not Lexi who came out with her reputation as high as it ever could be. 

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Once you go down that route, then where do you stop?

I know I certainly wouldn't want to be the player who was remembered for winning a tournament where there was clear evidence that I made a breach and got away with it. How does that make the runner up feel?

Ok, then call rules violation on Jack Nicholas in 1986 Masters? There has to be a point where things stop and are over. s*** happens.

 

It was not intentional and gained zero advantage. Golf is only sport they allow this crap.

 

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Sure why not?

The whole point is that golf tournaments are won and lost on very small margins sometimes.

Sometimes that is outrageous luck, sometimes that is painful misfortune, sometimes that is brilliant skill. sometimes it is a woeful error.

Whatever the outcome, it should never ever be at the expense of, or despite of the rules of golf.

We, as golfers, have a simple mantra to uphold: honesty, integrity, courtesy. We are actively encouraged to do the right thing at all times. This incident, although unfortunate from one perspective, had a positive outcome in that the rules were not compromised and the honesty, integrity and courtesy part of the game were upheld in one form or another by more that a few different individuals. Nobody really came out as a loser - certainly not Lexi who came out with her reputation as high as it ever could be.

I remain hopeful there will be one loser here. Namely the ludicrous endless PR trumpeting that suggests fairness (via extraordinary review) is ubiquitous in professional sport. Any such suggestion is nothing more than an unnatural house of cards intentionally held together with nearly translucent scotch tape. Press = $$$ and the folks with a seat at the table are absolutely loving the discussion; because so far this day late debate is certainly not shorting them any dollars or lasting credibility.

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