Should a spectator be allowed to call in a rule violation?

[griecot313]

No. They should have a rules official with every group (which they do at majors) and one in the control both. If the walking official has a question, they can then request a review. That's it.

 

Let the home viewer post his views on the web. If a player is a repeat offender, the tour can take action with suspension.

[StrokerAce]

The kicker is... ALL OF THIS, is assuming that someone isn't calling in for selfish reasons. 

What if someone has money on another player and calls it in to help themselves out. Or if they just dislike a player and would otherwise not call in if it was a player they liked. 

 

Let me give you one particularly crappy scenario with this Lexi fiasco. What if... The person who emailed in to call out Lexi, actually noticed this rules infraction on Saturday right after it happened. He/she doesn't like Lexi. In fact, she is his/her least favorite player(or they have $$$ on someone else, whatever). The second they saw the penalty, they got really excited because they get to call a rules infraction on someone they dislike. Then they realize, I can call this in now and she will get a 2 shot penalty. Orrrrrr. I can wait until tomorrow and call it in(email) and then she will not only get a 2 shot penalty but also an additional 2 shot penalty for signing an incorrect scorecard!

This person just negatively affected the outcome of the tournament to serve their own purposes. Not to protect the field but to hurt an individual and change the outcome of a major. 

 

Think about that for a second. 

 

Does draftkings do LPGA?  

I know they do PGA and with hundreds of thousands on the line I wouldn't put it past someone to do exactly what you're saying...

[griecot313]

I would bet everything I own, that if you had an HD camera on every player marking their ball, 50 % of the time they don't get it back in the exact spot.

[Undershooter]

We all can debate it, but in the end the rules need to be updated for the world we live in of high definition tvs, dvrs etc. It was unfortunate that it happened to Lexi and it will happen again upto when they enact the new rules in 2019...

 

MDGolfHacker

Agreed. Needs to be changed!

 

For the time being, somebody lose the password to that email address people are sending rules infractions to. And also break the phone that the arm chair heros are calling in to. 

[jaskanski]

It looks like (so far) I'm the only one with a yes vote.

 

I've no problem with that. I don't think that anyone or any situation is above the rules of golf being correctly applied by whatever means. If that means via SR-71 flyovers or using tv cameras linked to the FBI, then so be it. 

The funny thing is, everybody complains when their opponent successfully gains a superior lie legally and within the rules of golf - and here we are trying to uphold the premise that a clear breach should go completely unpunished.

Bizarre

[ole gray]

It looks like (so far) I'm the only one with a yes vote.

 

I've no problem with that. I don't think that anyone or any situation is above the rules of golf being correctly applied by whatever means. If that means via SR-71 flyovers or using tv cameras linked to the FBI, then so be it.

The funny thing is, everybody complains when their opponent successfully gains a superior lie legally and within the rules of golf - and here we are trying to uphold the premise that a clear breach should go completely unpunished.

Bizarre

I don't think anyone is as concerned about the two stroke penalty for mis marking the ball as they are for two more strokes added for incorrect score card . Which came because the email came in the day after play was completed.

 

 

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[Undershooter]

Does draftkings do LPGA?  

I know they do PGA and with hundreds of thousands on the line I wouldn't put it past someone to do exactly what you're saying...

haha I'm not sure man. But I know bookies takes bets on LPGA tourneys. And whatever else people can manage to bet on. 

[Undershooter]

It looks like (so far) I'm the only one with a yes vote.

 

I've no problem with that. I don't think that anyone or any situation is above the rules of golf being correctly applied by whatever means. If that means via SR-71 flyovers or using tv cameras linked to the FBI, then so be it. 

The funny thing is, everybody complains when their opponent successfully gains a superior lie legally and within the rules of golf - and here we are trying to uphold the premise that a clear breach should go completely unpunished.

Bizarre

I'm not saying that someone shouldn't be held to the rules. But it isn't fair for some players to get all the TV time and and scrutiny when others do not. If every single player had every single shot televised and shown equally then sure. That would sort of help. But even then. It doesn't stop some random a-hole from trying to affect the outcome of an event for personal reasons though. 

If they televised each shot from each player and had an official watch every single one of the shots from each player and decide penalties BEFORE cards are signed then I would be alright with that. But the way it is currently set up. Not even close. 

 

When they players are against it. I generally oppose it. People outside of the event should not influence the outcome imo. 

[jaskanski]

I don't think anyone is as concerned about the two stroke penalty for mis marking the ball as they are for two more strokes added for incorrect score card . Which came because the email came in the day after play was completed.

 

 

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Does it make any difference? It was a breach of the rules - and it continues to be a breach of the rules in retrospect, especially when you read the conditions of entry to the competition that every pro reads (lol) before the competition begins. And funnily enough, it still remains a breach of the rules for every day of the rest of their lives.

People seem to have short memories about the shenanigans of the US Open last year and DJ's post round penalty, as well as the scrutiny to Speith on video evidence during last years Masters. How about Tigers "drop" in 2013? It's nothing new. Pros should know how to handle it.

[Undershooter]

Does it make any difference? It was a breach of the rules - and it continues to be a breach of the rules in retrospect, especially when you read the conditions of entry to the competition that every pro reads (lol) before the competition begins. And funnily enough, it still remains a breach of the rules for every day of the rest of their lives.

People seem to have short memories about the shenanigans of the US Open last year and DJ's post round penalty, as well as the scrutiny to Speith on video evidence during last years Masters. How about Tigers "drop" in 2013? It's nothing new. Pros should know how to handle it.

It makes a difference to Lexi and Ryu. 2 shots instead of 4 give us a different winner. 

[jaskanski]

I know the rest of the field didn't make a gaffe in the tournament. Why should Lexi get away with it at the expense of the other players? And take the better part of $150,000 out of someone else's hands?

[Undershooter]

I know the rest of the field didn't make a gaffe in the tournament. Why should Lexi get away with it at the expense of the other players? And take the better part of $150,000 out of someone else's hands?

Because that isn't worth a 4 shot penalty. Also, how do we know that anyone else didn't do that? Or anything else more egregious for that matter.

We can't know that because nobody else had as much TV time. 

 

I get what you are saying but 4 shots is not worthy of moving a ball 2mm(especially if accidental). How are we protecting the field when we don't know what the rest of the field did because it wasn't shown on camera as much?

[jaskanski]

Because that isn't worth a 4 shot penalty. Also, how do we know that anyone else didn't do that? Or anything else more egregious for that matter.

We can't know that because nobody else had as much TV time. 

 

I get what you are saying but 4 shots is not worthy of moving a ball 2mm(especially if accidental). How are we protecting the field when we don't know what the rest of the field did because it wasn't shown on camera as much?

 

I saw the video evidence myself and it looks like she replaced the ball at least a half ball or nearer a full ball width away from it's original position, presumably to avoid a spike mark or similar given the small distance from the hole and her reaction to the initial missed putt. I'm a little mystified why she simply didn't tap in the remaining putt, rather than scrutinising it to a level where she needed to lift and replace (clearly in a different position) to hole out.

The video evidence to me looks justified in its application.

Here is the official line from the ruling bodies some years ago, which every pro receives a copy of prior to competitive play:

http://www.fvg.org/download/cdt_10201.pdf

End of discussion.

[jaskanski]

for those who cannot be bothered to read the official ruling body statement (LPGA players for instance?) here is the last part of the statement:

 

 If a player has breached a Rule, but this is not discovered until a later time, whether through video evidence or otherwise, such evidence must be considered so that the correct ruling can be applied and the player's score can be recorded accurately. In their ongoing review of the use of video and other enhanced technology, The R&A and the USGA will continue to be guided by the view that, regardless of the timing or the type of evidence used, the integrity of the game is best served by getting the ruling right. 

[ole gray]

It makes a difference to Lexi and Ryu. 2 shots instead of 4 give us a different winner.

Whew! You can carry the ball now bro as I need a breather ...lol

[Undershooter]

for those who cannot be bothered to read the official ruling body statement (LPGA players for instance?) here is the last part of the statement:

 

 If a player has breached a Rule, but this is not discovered until a later time, whether through video evidence or otherwise, such evidence must be considered so that the correct ruling can be applied and the player's score can be recorded accurately. In their ongoing review of the use of video and other enhanced technology, The R&A and the USGA will continue to be guided by the view that, regardless of the timing or the type of evidence used, the integrity of the game is best served by getting the ruling right. 

Doesn't change my argument. I'm aware of the rules. She deserved a penalty. That isn't the problem. The officials did their job and handled things according to the rules as they currently written. The problem is, the rules need to change. This has been the case and will continue to be. If you want to hang your hat on that them doing their jobs then we can agree to stop talking about this because that was never the issue. 

 

She signed for the correct score AT THE TIME yet was later penalized additional shots for signing the card with the incorrect score. I'm alright with a 2 shot penalty for the incorrect marking. She moved her ball. Thus penalty. No rules official called in on her and both her and the scorer agreed that she signed it correctly. 

Like I said earlier, if people want to have every shot televised and an OFFICIAL watch every single shot before the cards are signed then I'm alright with that too. But if EVERYONE is not televised equally then its BS. 

 

 

I have never said nor has anyone else (that I've seen) that she didn't deserve the penalty for placing her ball incorrectly. 

[Undershooter]

Also I did find it very interesting that the officials gave her the penalty for incorrectly signing her card Saturday(Saturday's round was assessed the penalty). Yet in the playoff. Ryu was given the honor for having the low round on Sundary when she shot 68 and Lexi shot 67. So basically the officials gave the honor to the incorrect player because they themselves didn't assess the penalty to the correct round at the time. 

[Liberty Ball Markers]

I'm with Phil - this is pretty common...

 

 

http://www.etsy.com/shop/LibertyBallMarkers

[Undershooter]

To me, and this is purely my opinion and has no bearing on what we were talking about earlier with the rules needing adjustment. The question is: did the player who played the best throughout the week (penalties and all) win the golf tournament? 

To me, the answer is no and it isn't close. Lexi played better than Ryu and deserved to win. 

 

a 4 shot penalty did not fit the crime.

[Undershooter]

I'm with Phil - this is pretty common...IMG_8839.PNG

 

 

http://www.etsy.com/shop/LibertyBallMarkers

There are quite a few tour players that said as much. I've seen at least 10+ say the exact same thing. 

[Liberty Ball Markers]

Yep, and I would guess that I (along with everyone that I know) should start adding at least 2 strokes per hole, because I don't think anyone takes it back to the exact millimeter or even cares.

 

I'm not playing for millions of dollars, but I'm sure that among those who do, that people with habits of cheating are known and called out.

 

I think if I were Lexi, my questions would be:

1) what penalty does the official get who signed my score card incorrectly?

2) when do we replay the 4th round? The standings, pairings, etc were all wrong based on the changes made to the 3rd round score.

3) I'd like to scrutinize the close-ups of whomever was in 50th place ...oh yeah - they were never shown on TV.

 

 

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[StrokerAce]

...at the end of the day, until they change the rules this is going to continue to happen...

 

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[kenjacquard]

No way. We wonder why the game we love is going downhill. Stuff like this.

 

 

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[Fireinthehole]

I don't believe so. Though I must admit she clearly didn't place the marker where her ball was and then proceeded to move the ball to an incorrect location. That said, again, no viewer help.

I already hate how much breaks the NFL has for video review as it is.

 

 

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[revkev]

First Jas is right. Lost in all of this broo ha ha is the fact that LPGA did act within its stated rules and that for whatever reason golf has always responded to viewer concerns about a rules violation with an investigation of the available evidence.

 

So until the rule changes this is the rule.

 

The question was should a viewer call in be allowed. I would vote no. In fact the resolution to this mess becomes maddeningly resolvable. Have an official in a booth who reviews the television feed and give the walking officials a high def device that can be used to show the player what's being reviewed on the spot. It's 2017 not 1894 for crying out loud. By all means enforce the rules but do so while we are young and in a way that's fair to everyone involved.

 

 

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[Undershooter]

I have no problem with that^^^ as I've stated quite a few times in this thread. I'm not saying the officials did anything wrong. I just think the system is screwed. That is all.

[fozcycle]

No No No No, No No No No, No No No, No No No.

 

 

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[Shankster]

 

 

That's why! They can't afford a reply booth. They pay the comish $5,000,000+ a year back in 2009, probably over 6 now.

 

 

 

- Da Yooper

@og_shankster (instagram)

[dadivots]

Golf is a game of honor, and players call penalties on themselves.  The playing partner protects the honor of the game for the entire field of players by calling violations when they see them, and then attest the score for the other player.  People should not be able to call in and change the score of a match after the scorecard has been signed and attested by another player and the official.

This is the deal; Golf is held to a higher stanard.

All the do-rights out there need to get off the me and my opinion matters train. And it is upon the playing partner(s) to call it without falter.

It was VERY revealing that Jack has just said he can recall 3 instances of cheating. The first time the player was pulled aside and told it would not be tolerated again. In one instance a player did it again in a Pres. Cup and was penalized quietly and without fan fare.

At first Jack's omissions were surprising to me, on such a stage let alone on tour, but then I recalled the regular cheaters I was privy to.

In short a celebrity or two were known to do it regular and often. Inevitably they would come through the pro shop and club house after a round to preen their feathers, and the look of disgust from a staff member or two was all it took to get them moving in another direction.

The tour person who does it, let alone again after warned, is the lowest form to me.

All who do it find themselves lone rangers on the course sooner or later.

[dadivots]

IMG_0612.PNG

 

That's why! They can't afford a reply booth. They pay the comish $5,000,000+ a year back in 2009, probably over 6 now.

 

 

 

- Da Yooper

@og_shankster (instagram)

Yowzer, I wonder if they're a tax free for entertainment only (wink wink) entity like the NFL?