Variable length to Single length irons

[Mizuno2]

So I am dabbling into the single length idea in converting my tzoid pros to single length. So I have a few dumb questions as I am doing research on this project:

1. I was going to do a raw finish but I am going to strip the chrome with muriatic acid and do an oil can/quench finish with custom ferrules and grips. With saying that is it better to bend the clubs prior to this or after? Or does it matter?

2. I've been reading about reweighing all the clubs with lead tape or something of the sorts. I have read that where you put the weight can matter like for the long irons if you put the weight low on the head it produces higher spin thus less distance. I feel with this though it may benefit to countering the lower launch. But maybe there is a bit of a median to the weight or just put it right behind sweet spot/or middle?

3. I would like to reuse current shafts if possible. I've been doing reading and everyone is saying it can't be done although when I look up the trimming specs to the shafts it is basically saying for every iron (my single length irons will be 8 iron length) you need to tip an extra 1/2" and butt trim to length which is a 1/2" for every club. So doing that math in theory I could just tip every shaft to the desired length?

Eg:

6 iron is tipped 2.5" and the 8 iron is tipped 3.5 inches. The 6 irons is also 1" longer then 8 iron thus 2 club difference. So in theory of math since the 6 iron is 1" longer and tipped 1" less couldn't I tip the 6 iron an extra 1" like the 8 iron therefore making it the same length?

 

Please I appreciate the help

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[jaskanski]

1,2 & 3 - A bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing sometimes.

Hopefully the EPA will stop you at step 1 before you even bother with steps 2 & 3.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[Kenny B]

@jaskanski is right.  

 

There is a lot more to it that adding weight and cutting shafts.  You will be ruining your set of Mizunos.  Heads vary in weight; wedges heaviest, long irons lightest.  If you are using your 8i as the final length, then you have to add weight to longer clubs and remove weight from shorter clubs, and you are talking about adding/removing  a LOT of weight to get a reasonable swingweight.  I won't even go into what you would be doing to the shaft flex, and how would you make clubs shorter than your 8i longer.

 

There is a reason why single length irons haven't caught on until now.  It's hard to make a set that fits every individual.  It why I believe that the best SL clubs are Edel, because they fit every club with the best weight and shaft.  It's also why they are the most expensive.

[jaskanski]

Thanks Kenny B - you hit the nail right on the head.

 

@Mizuno2 - I wasn't being rude earlier, I was just out in the field with iPhone only so typing a long winded reply was pretty difficult.

Now I'm back in the office, allow me to elaborate.

 

Point 1. Stripping chrome is a job for the professionals and not the home hobbyist. Not only is the process more complex, it also leaves some pretty harmful chemicals and residue which have to be disposed of properly. Acid will only eat away at any metal until you tell it to stop - unfortunately acid doesn't really care if it's chrome or carbon steel, so it will erode everything. The professional method is by electrolysis and metal liberation to a new substrate - very specific and very technical. The optimum electrolyte and electric current must be used and a donor electrode captures the chrome. The home hobbyist can't really do this accurately enough to not destroy the grooves on their irons, let alone dispose of the waste in a responsible manner.

 

Point 2. Your clubs are not designed to be single length from the get go. Hence the head weights you have are for variable length clubs. To make them anywhere near single length you will have to add and/or subtract weight above/below your starting point. That means you will need to subtract weight for your 9 and PW if you start at 8 iron length (typically some 20g for the PW) and then add weight for the longer clubs - assuming you have a 4-iron you will need to add around 30-35g. For the record, 35g of regular lead tape is roughly 3.5 feet long! So you will need to employ some funky weighting, not least to find a way of removing 20g from the PW without completely losing the hosel and altering the CoG.

 

Point 3. Shaft will need to specific for each head for sure - you can't simply use a shaft and tip it to suit if it has come from another set. Edel actually uses 3 different profiles within the same flex and weight class to get the ball flight correct. If you are using donor shafts tipped from your existing set, they simply will not work for the heads you have lightened (i.e. your 9 and PW) and consequently the flex will be stiffer. For the heads which have added weight (in other words the majority) the flex will be too weak. You will run out of usable shaft length before you can get the flex correct. 

 

You did mention, but every head will need altering for lie, but also they will probably need altering for loft too to get your yardage gaps correct. This will upset the bounce angles in the set and make them trickier to play. To be honest - the whole idea is just a bad idea from the start.

 

The moral of the story is simple. If you're planning on using single length irons, then use a set of components which are designed to and capable of achieving it. The same goes for any project you care to undertake - right tools, right components, right fit. More often than not, the easiest way around this is to simply buy the set to your requirements - there are plenty of manufacturers out there who make single length sets.

 

I won't go into the advantages/disadvantages of either set because everyone has their own opinion - but if history has any bearing on which has been more successful for all over the years, then traditional variable length wins hands down by a long margin. The recent revival in single length irons is, in my opinion anyway, a fashion trend that will fade away. Just as it did a long time before.

[Kenny B]

@jaskanski -  Well said.

 

A good tutelage of single length irons has recently been updated...

 

http://www.tutelman.com/golf/clubs/singleLength1.php

 

 

[Peaksy68]

A friend of mine who is a club builder did a set for another mate. It was a very involved process, as jaskanskl says above.

 

He had access to whatever shaft he wanted, tungsten plugs, a range of different epoxies for reweighting heads. Of course he also had appropriate club building equipment.

 

He told me he would never do it again, because it was a nightmare.

[Mizuno2]

Thanks Kenny B - you hit the nail right on the head.

 

@Mizuno2 - I wasn't being rude earlier, I was just out in the field with iPhone only so typing a long winded reply was pretty difficult.

Now I'm back in the office, allow me to elaborate.

 

Point 1. Stripping chrome is a job for the professionals and not the home hobbyist. Not only is the process more complex, it also leaves some pretty harmful chemicals and residue which have to be disposed of properly. Acid will only eat away at any metal until you tell it to stop - unfortunately acid doesn't really care if it's chrome or carbon steel, so it will erode everything. The professional method is by electrolysis and metal liberation to a new substrate - very specific and very technical. The optimum electrolyte and electric current must be used and a donor electrode captures the chrome. The home hobbyist can't really do this accurately enough to not destroy the grooves on their irons, let alone dispose of the waste in a responsible manner.

 

Point 2. Your clubs are not designed to be single length from the get go. Hence the head weights you have are for variable length clubs. To make them anywhere near single length you will have to add and/or subtract weight above/below your starting point. That means you will need to subtract weight for your 9 and PW if you start at 8 iron length (typically some 20g for the PW) and then add weight for the longer clubs - assuming you have a 4-iron you will need to add around 30-35g. For the record, 35g of regular lead tape is roughly 3.5 feet long! So you will need to employ some funky weighting, not least to find a way of removing 20g from the PW without completely losing the hosel and altering the CoG.

 

Point 3. Shaft will need to specific for each head for sure - you can't simply use a shaft and tip it to suit if it has come from another set. Edel actually uses 3 different profiles within the same flex and weight class to get the ball flight correct. If you are using donor shafts tipped from your existing set, they simply will not work for the heads you have lightened (i.e. your 9 and PW) and consequently the flex will be stiffer. For the heads which have added weight (in other words the majority) the flex will be too weak. You will run out of usable shaft length before you can get the flex correct.

 

You did mention, but every head will need altering for lie, but also they will probably need altering for loft too to get your yardage gaps correct. This will upset the bounce angles in the set and make them trickier to play. To be honest - the whole idea is just a bad idea from the start.

 

The moral of the story is simple. If you're planning on using single length irons, then use a set of components which are designed to and capable of achieving it. The same goes for any project you care to undertake - right tools, right components, right fit. More often than not, the easiest way around this is to simply buy the set to your requirements - there are plenty of manufacturers out there who make single length sets.

 

I won't go into the advantages/disadvantages of either set because everyone has their own opinion - but if history has any bearing on which has been more successful for all over the years, then traditional variable length wins hands down by a long margin. The recent revival in single length irons is, in my opinion anyway, a fashion trend that will fade away. Just as it did a long time before.

I know the process for stripping chrome is dangerous and what not. I have done it before leaving it at the nickel state in which at that point I can oil can/quench it. I'm still not 100%.

I might not strip them or might get them professionally done as other have stated.

 

I know the weighting needs to be altered and understand all that. I probably won't grind the lower irons even though it all just be a 9 since I I have 3-9 in irons.

 

For the shafts every other company besides edel uses one shaft. Now I may do the same for 3/4 irons but for the rest of the irons I'm trying to avoid buying new. I just have a hard time understanding how the math doesn't work out with tipping and butt trim to equaling the same when they are all symmetrically trimmed if that makes sense.

Like in the example of the 8 and 6 iron shafts.

 

I know I have to alter the lofts a little bit but it may not affect the bounce a whole lot.

 

I get your moral of the story and I agree at times it is a bad idea but it also seems like a good idea I mean I can see the benefit in the long irons for me. I am also trying to do this in a more Custom diy thing on a budget as apposed to buying edels which are not cheap and are just prefabbed and defeats the purpose of me tinkering a little bit. I'm just trying to learn a bit about clubfitting and I thought it would be a cool project. Just not a easy one.

 

The other reason for my tinkering is some one else doing the same for my same irons:

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1411980-single-length-mizuno-irons-raw-de-chromed-t-zoid-heads-365in-champ-c8-grips/

 

I'm doing them a little different but similar idea.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[Mizuno2]

@jaskanski - Well said.

 

A good tutelage of single length irons has recently been updated...

 

Yes I have been reading into that it has been a good source of info

 

http://www.tutelman.com/golf/clubs/singleLength1.php

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[fraasty]

Instead of modifying an already good set of irons why not order some single length heads and then do the shafts however you want em? The pinhawks from value golf get some good reviews and aren't too expensive if you only buy the heads.

 

https://www.valuegolf.com/pinhawk-sl-single-length-iron-heads

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[shelbyl]

It's be very very worth it to see a fitter who specializes in SL, or one who understands the concept and can work with a manufacturer who can guide them through the process. It is a bit of a different animal. I was fitted by a Tom Wishon certified fitter and am really enjoying my Sterling SL irons. We were also able to cut down my fw and driver to integrate them into the set.. reach out to Tom as he is more than willing to help! Hope you enjoy your adventure!

 

Sent from my LG-LS993 using MyGolfSpy mobile app