Pace of play....is "slower" that big of a deal?

[revkev]

I caddied at a country club in high school, nearly all walked. Printed in the scorecards was "18 holes is expected to be 3 hours, 30 minutes."

 

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This - there was a time when 3:30 was the norm and not just at clubs. Interestingly it was a time when most people walked. It was also a time when you were fortunate if there was something to mark 150 to the center and there was often only one or perhaps two sets of tees to play from.

 

Today it seems that folks need to run through a check off sheet like unto that for a NASA launch before hitting.

 

I'm convinced that pace of play impacts the number of people who play golf. It is a big deal.

 

 

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[Kanoito]

Kanoito, you probably hit the nail on the head for me. I'm very much all or nothing (not just for golf, but a lot of things in my life haha). I've always planned on several factors. Drive time, warm up time, on course time, and after golf social time. Between all that it ends up being 7-8 hours of time (most of the time). Now if I got invited to play a nice track at last minute notice and had to play fast, I will admit that I would make it work lol (for good, bad, or otherwise). If I want to practice, I will budget a couple hours to really dial things in.

 

To each their own with it, we probably all have to agree to disagree when on opposite sides. At least if any of us tee it up together we know ahead lol.

 

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If I was invited to play some exclusive course like Pebble Beach or Augusta, then yeah, I would take my time and enjoy it as a once in a lifetime experience. But for normal rounds in my club, no need for that.

[DaveP043]

 Anyway, I feel that for 4-players, five hours isn't unreasonable because you're not rushed. I feel like the 15 minutes per hole traditional average doesn't quite fit the bill (just my opinion).

 

I appreciate the honesty here, its obvious you know your preference is near the "slow" end of the spectrum.  I think a lot of this comes down to simple good manners, and reasonable expectations.  Its completely unreasonable for a group to expect to play in 3 hours on a busy golf course, and to expect to be waved through by every slower group that they get behind.  Similarly, its unreasonable to expect to be allowed to take 5 hours to play on a course where 4 hours is the "norm".  I believe every player owes it to the other players to stay reasonably close to what most think is a reasonable pace.   When its not crowded, take as long as you like, as long as you invite faster groups to play through (simple good manners again).  I don't have a problem with a player who prefers a more leisurely pace than I do.  I DO have a problem when that player expects to enforce his preference on ME.    On busy days, make an effort to play faster, on less busy days be sure to allow faster players to go through.

 

BTW, the USGA has a specific procedure for determining the "time par" for a course.  

[SuperDave]

Well I'm out there to have a good time with my friends and try to play good golf. I'm not in a rush and don't mine waiting a little for slower players in front of us. Give us time to B.S. and laugh between holes or shots.

When it comes to the PGA, it maybe a bit of a problem. You have to remember the people behind you are also competing for those big cash prizes and FedEx points. The longer they have to wait on you, the longer they are being forced to think about their play and doubt can creep in. I could keep going, but I won't. Those are my quick thoughts.

 

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[StrokerAce]

Found this article interesting and that he made a few good points in here.

 

While I don't agree with everything I think he was spot on with this one:

 

1) Length of the rough: The deeper the rough, the longer time that amateurs spend looking for golf balls. At $3 apiece, those orbs might as well be solid gold to some golfers.

 

Looking for lost golf balls is the No. 1 slowdown, in my opinion, and that goes back to bad play and too-deep rough.

 

I know some courses like to make things challenging but if you're not going to host the US Open you might want to cater to the majority rather than the minority...

 

The average male golfer with a handicap carries a 16, which means he's shooting about 90 on his best day. The average female with a handicap carries a 29, which means she's shooting 100-plus on her best day. Fewer than half of recreational golfers break 90, and only one in 20 breaks 80. 

 

 

http://www.morningread.com/features/f05da6b0-9f9f-4e15-bc41-254ffc5b792d

[Kanoito]

Well I'm out there to have a good time with my friends and try to play good golf. I'm not in a rush and don't mine waiting a little for slower players in front of us. Give us time to B.S. and laugh between holes or shots.

When it comes to the PGA, it maybe a bit of a problem. You have to remember the people behind you are also competing for those big cash prizes and FedEx points. The longer they have to wait on you, the longer they are being forced to think about their play and doubt can creep in. I could keep going, but I won't. Those are my quick thoughts.

 

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You can do that while allowing others to play through... having a good time (playing slowly) doesn't need to involve others who want to have a quick round.

[SuperDave]

You can do that while allowing others to play through... having a good time (playing slowly) doesn't need to involve others who want to have a quick round.

I don't think I said anything about not letting people play through.

 

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[mrsmith123]

Public golf courses (I'm not gonna dive into private because people voluntarily pay dues and stuff) could do so much more to help keep golfing number stable for participation and pace. Now, they can't control the tee boxes someone chooses but they can control the layout. I totally agree that shorter rough in general is good, and I wish courses would incorporate​ more short grass around greens. Fairways could be bigger on muni courses too (rough is more challenging the higher your handicap).

 

I've always liked the idea of keeping hole locations in the most generous areas of the green and not having any obstacles right in front of the green too for average to high handicappers.

 

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[StrokerAce]

another thing that someone might have briefly touched on already...

 

Some golf courses aren't cheap.... if I'm going to pay 75, 100, 100+ to play a course then I don't feel like I should rush through it because someone is riding my arse all day.

That being said, if someone is in a rush to get on, get in, get out then I am more than happy to let them play through and will gladly do so.

[djahubes]

4.5 hrs max, period! It's not about what you want it's about everyone else. Nothing worse than waiting for every shot b/c the group in front can't keep pace. It's really not about the amount of time it's about maintaining pace. If you are on pace take all the time you want. If you are behind get out the way.

 

 

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[djahubes]

I don't think I said anything about not letting people play through.

 

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Playing through backs up the entire course. Pace of play should be managed from the starter to the marshal and the players have the responsibility to keep up

 

 

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[StrokerAce]

Well.. this is confusing... first you say to "get out the way" and then you say "playing through backs up the entire course".... which is it ?  get out the way or keep playing?

 

BTW - there are A LOT of golf courses in the world.  If the pace of play at a course isn't to your liking (either due to players or marshals) I'd suggest perhaps trying a different course.

 

4.5 hrs max, period! It's not about what you want it's about everyone else. Nothing worse than waiting for every shot b/c the group in front can't keep pace. It's really not about the amount of time it's about maintaining pace. If you are on pace take all the time you want. If you are behind get out the way.


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Playing through backs up the entire course. Pace of play should be managed from the starter to the marshal and the players have the responsibility to keep up


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[djahubes]

Well.. this is confusing... first you say to "get out the way" and then you say "playing through backs up the entire course".... which is it ? get out the way or keep playing?

 

BTW - there are A LOT of golf courses in the world. If the pace of play at a course isn't to your liking (either due to players or marshals) I'd suggest perhaps trying a different course.

By get out the way I mean get off the course.

 

 

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[djahubes]

By get out the way I mean get off the course.

 

 

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If you are selfish enough to think that your time and money is the only thing that matters then that's on you.

 

I am lucky. My club expects 3:45 minute rounds. If you aren't keeping pace you get flagged. That's a warning to catch the group in from t of you. Second is black flag, meaning you must skip the next hole.

It's common curtesy dude. The world doesn't revolve around your time and money.

 

 

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[StrokerAce]

If you are selfish enough to think that your time and money is the only thing that matters then that's on you.

 

I am lucky. My club expects 3:45 minute rounds. If you aren't keeping pace you get flagged. That's a warning to catch the group in from t of you. Second is black flag, meaning you must skip the next hole.

It's common curtesy dude. The world doesn't revolve around your time and money.

 

 

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But that's at "your club".  I can understand and appreciate that.  If you join a club by paying initiation fees and dues then there is a certain level of expectation that comes with it.  You have every right to complain and demand that members play the course properly and respectfully.  I don't have a problem with that.

 

When you go out to public courses --- OR --- open "your club" to non-members you have to be more understanding.  

 

I suppose you would know when non-members are playing so you can just avoid playing those days or play during the times when they're not on.

 

If you go to Pebble Beach, pay your 495 dollar greens fee and expect to be done in 3 hours and 30 minutes then you might be disappointed.... 

[djahubes]

But that's at "your club". I can understand and appreciate that. If you join a club by paying initiation fees and dues then there is a certain level of expectation that comes with it. You have every right to complain and demand that members play the course properly and respectfully. I don't have a problem with that.

 

When you go out to public courses --- OR --- open "your club" to non-members you have to be more understanding.

 

I suppose you would know when non-members are playing so you can just avoid playing those days or play during the times when they're not on.

 

If you go to Pebble Beach, pay your 495 dollar greens fee and expect to be done in 3 hours and 30 minutes then you might be disappointed....

I guess my argument didn't come across as intended, I only argue that you should keep pace with the group in front of you. Granted most courses are different and have different expectations but I have never seen a pace posted above 4.5 hrs. I have played pebble many times and have never been over 4.5 hrs. They manage the t times to maximize play but still expect you to finish in a reasonable amount of time.

It's a difficult problem. Public courses have to balance revenue and play differently. They may squeeze in more players and times to maximize revenue. As long as everyone is keeping up it is what it is. There is nothing worse, however, than waiting behind a slow group on every hole when the course is opening in front.

 

 

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[StrokerAce]

I guess my argument didn't come across as intended, I only argue that you should keep pace with the group in front of you. Granted most courses are different and have different expectations but I have never seen a pace posted above 4.5 hrs. I have played pebble many times and have never been over 4.5 hrs. They manage the t times to maximize play but still expect you to finish in a reasonable amount of time.

It's a difficult problem. Public courses have to balance revenue and play differently. They may squeeze in more players and times to maximize revenue. As long as everyone is keeping up it is what it is. There is nothing worse, however, than waiting behind a slow group on every hole when the course is opening in front.

 

 

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Couldn't agree more!!

 

My 78 year old father in law and I played 18 in 3 hrs and he isn't very good.

 

Unless you are getting paid thousands there is zero reason to take forever.

 

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[Kenny B]

There are a number of slow play threads here on the forums, but the topic of this one seems appropriate for discussing the how bad slow play has gotten.  Is slow play a big deal???  

 

Last month, at an Indiana High School Athletic Association girls regional set up at 5,400 yards. The 18-hole pace of play for the final few groups was 6 hours and 45 minutes!!!!  Apparently, there is no penalty for slow play enforced on juniors.  It seems that the major reason is coaching.  The juniors learn this from their coaches.  Pre-shot routines are excruciatingly long.  It's no longer a match of who can hit the best shots; it's who can outlast the other competitors.

 

Yes, it's a big deal and it needs to stop.  The governing bodies need to tell schools that slow play will be penalized, and if necessary, schools and coaches will also incur some sort of penalty.  

[gaussman1]

There are a number of slow play threads here on the forums, but the topic of this one seems appropriate for discussing the how bad slow play has gotten. Is slow play a big deal???

 

Last month, at an Indiana High School Athletic Association girls regional set up at 5,400 yards. The 18-hole pace of play for the final few groups was 6 hours and 45 minutes!!!! Apparently, there is no penalty for slow play enforced on juniors. It seems that the major reason is coaching. The juniors learn this from their coaches. Pre-shot routines are excruciatingly long. It's no longer a match of who can hit the best shots; it's who can outlast the other competitors.

 

Yes, it's a big deal and it needs to stop. The governing bodies need to tell schools that slow play will be penalized, and if necessary, schools and coaches will also incur some sort of penalty.

Good luck expecting the IHSAA to do anything. Maybe the thought of slapping penalties on kids would get them excited though. That seems right up their alley.

Honestly I don't know that the coaches can or would do much. They're mostly glorified bus drivers at the high school level. Any players with ability already have their own private instructors and the beginners have a tough enough time just finishing the golf course. I know you would think this wouldn't be the case at a regional site but based on the sectional draws you could easily have multiple players in regional shooting well above 100.

 

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[Kenny B]

Good luck expecting the IHSAA to do anything. Maybe the thought of slapping penalties on kids would get them excited though. That seems right up their alley.

Honestly I don't know that the coaches can or would do much. They're mostly glorified bus drivers at the high school level. Any players with ability already have their own private instructors and the beginners have a tough enough time just finishing the golf course. I know you would think this wouldn't be the case at a regional site but based on the sectional draws you could easily have multiple players in regional shooting well above 100.

 

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The last few groups should be the better players and not players that shoot over 100.  There are two ladies (over 50) that compete in our club's ladies tournaments who walk the course (most ride).  They shoot 90-100 from 5400 yards and play in under 4 hours.  The problem is not shooting 100; it's not being ready to hit your shot when it's your turn, taking half a dozen practice swings; not reading putts on the green until it's your turn to putt.  What I'm saying is shooting 100 is not an excuse for slow play.  Coaches need to coach, and one of the skills that they seem to be not teaching is how to play golf at a pace that resembles an 18-hole round.

[ddryan]

I can't deal with slow play at all.  It get's on my nerves worst than a non treeing coon hound. After waiting for a slow group to clear the greens, my tempo actually get's too quick.  It's like when it's finally my time to hit, I step up and whack away without taking a few more seconds for my own game. I'm concerned about the people behind my group having to wait too.  If it get's too slow, I pack it up and leave at the turn.  I'm retired so I can come back another day where I can enjoy and not stress over golf.

 

I will also probably take some heat for this post, but...

 

As many have already said, Pace of Play is a combination of things- you don't have to "wait until it is your turn" to get distance, club selection, and practice swings out of the way.  Be ready to hit the ball when it is your turn.  There are a few folks in our club who are deliberate, which is fine, but they are deliberate in their routine and shot-making, not walking from ball to cart, or areas where time can be "made up."  Others, on the other hand, wait until it is their shot to begin measuring their distance with their measuring device, then going back to their cart to get the club they want, then making three practice swings, only to shank their shot 70 yards into the woods on the right... 

 

I walk almost all the time, and I have a GPS watch (and awaiting the arrival of my ShotScope 2.0) but I am also using my pace count and thinking about what shot I should play as I am approaching my ball.  I am looking at the green as I am approaching it, walking on one side to retrieve and mark my ball, then looping around the other side to get the full 360, fixing at least 2 pitch marks while doing my walkaround, and am usually finished before anyone else has begun to line up their putts.   I almost always finish in under 4 hours, even on our local muni. (we do start early, early in the morning...).  If you are holding up others, either pick up the pace or let the group behind play thru, then stay on their tail.  All too often  I see 20+ handicappers (more often than not you can tell by their swing) waiting for the green to clear on a 500+ yard par 5, when they are 300+ yards out.  - I can remember comments on a 250 yard yardage marker on one particular course that said - "Just Hit It"  - made me laugh out loud.

 

I recall Former President George W Bush, while being interviewed by David Feherty.  President Bush said "My grandfather watched me swing the club, and after told me that while I would never be a good golfer, if I played fast, the good players would tolerate me!"  There is something to that thought process- don't delay the others- play your game, but don't make the others suffer.  If you want to play slow- play alone when there is nobody else on the course.  Same reason you should not send beginners out early Saturday or Sunday mornings...

 

[chisag]

... So interesting to read so many different opinions. But in the end, it always comes down to being courteous and considerate to the rest of the people on the course. 

... Golf is not a social gathering, it is an athletic event. The fact that you can socialize while playing is a great bonus of course, but it is secondary to playing the game. Many just don't seem to understand this simple fact. In my experience it is this element that slows the game down the most.

1. Watching the group in front of you recount their shots before leaving the green, talking about it and finally moving along just to have the cart girl stop before you tee off and then all 4 interacting with her the whole time is typical of slow golfers. Get your drink/food and then tee off while your friends get their drinks/food. 

 

2. Standing around and talking on the tee box when it is your turn. Hit first, talk second. Got a good joke so you are telling it while the group in front is leaving the green on a par 4 and you are already waiting is very frustrating. 

3. Too busy talking and not reading your putt until it is your turn. Sheesh, talk while you look at your putt from as many angles as you need but be ready when it is your turn. 

 

4. Hit your bad shot and move on to the next bad shot. Don't stand there lamenting how bad that shot was and go thru a swing analysis mirroring positions and then just do it again the next shot. Nothing wrong with being a bad golfer, just don't be a slow bad golfer. 

5. Be aware of the group behind you. Always. Of course keeping up with the group in front of you cures all, as you can only play as fast as the course allows you to play. 

... As a skilled player I can easily walk a course in 2 hours. Not because I want to fly around and I have other things to do, but because it is an athletic event and getting into a rhythm is always better for scoring. By the same token, if the course s pretty full and I am forced to play by myself with nowhere to go, I adjust my rhythm to count for more time between shots.

 

... My wife shoots in the mid 90's while I shoot in the low 70's/60's and she always keeps pace with me. We enjoy each others company and talk between shots and while waiting but we are always ready when it is our turn. And I disagree completely with Kenny B about letting twosome's thru. There are a myriad of reasons not to pair up with the twosome behind you, especially if you have established a rhythm for the day and catch up to the slow group in front of you. They are drinking, loud and not that interested in playing but just having fun... smoking and you want to enjoy the fresh air ... they are slower but you are waiting every hole... you are walking and they are in carts. If the twosome behind you is waiting every shot, let them thru as it only takes a few minutes and does not slow you down if you are ready to hit as soon as they clear. It is simply being courteous.

... Bottom line is golf courses usually set 4 hours for pace of play because it is what works best for the majority of players. Again being courteous and considerate means faster players need to adjust and slow down when necessary and slower players need to speed up and adjust when necessary. If you have the course to yourself, play at whatever pace you want. But the OP saying he wants to enjoy himself at a leisurely pace is a big problem for those trying to balance everything and play at the recommended pace of play. 

[gaussman1]

I'm not arguing the issue. I'm simply saying that expecting actual coaching for girls hs teams is unrealistic. The coaches barely get paid and are almost always full time teachers who are given the gig as a reward for longevity and a way to make a few bucks. Many if not most are barely golfers themselves. There's just no budget for it in Indiana high schools

 

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[Kenny B]

... So interesting to read so many different opinions. But in the end, it always comes down to being courteous and considerate to the rest of the people on the course. 

 

... Golf is not a social gathering, it is an athletic event. The fact that you can socialize while playing is a great bonus of course, but it is secondary to playing the game. Many just don't seem to understand this simple fact. In my experience it is this element that slows the game down the most.

 

1. Watching the group in front of you recount their shots before leaving the green, talking about it and finally moving along just to have the cart girl stop before you tee off and then all 4 interacting with her the whole time is typical of slow golfers. Get your drink/food and then tee off while your friends get their drinks/food. 

 

2. Standing around and talking on the tee box when it is your turn. Hit first, talk second. Got a good joke so you are telling it while the group in front is leaving the green on a par 4 and you are already waiting is very frustrating. 

 

3. Too busy talking and not reading your putt until it is your turn. Sheesh, talk while you look at your putt from as many angles as you need but be ready when it is your turn. 

 

4. Hit your bad shot and move on to the next bad shot. Don't stand there lamenting how bad that shot was and go thru a swing analysis mirroring positions and then just do it again the next shot. Nothing wrong with being a bad golfer, just don't be a slow bad golfer. 

 

5. Be aware of the group behind you. Always. Of course keeping up with the group in front of you cures all, as you can only play as fast as the course allows you to play. 

 

... As a skilled player I can easily walk a course in 2 hours. Not because I want to fly around and I have other things to do, but because it is an athletic event and getting into a rhythm is always better for scoring. By the same token, if the course s pretty full and I am forced to play by myself with nowhere to go, I adjust my rhythm to count for more time between shots.

 

... My wife shoots in the mid 90's while I shoot in the low 70's/60's and she always keeps pace with me. We enjoy each others company and talk between shots and while waiting but we are always ready when it is our turn. And I disagree completely with Kenny B about letting twosome's thru. There are a myriad of reasons not to pair up with the twosome behind you, especially if you have established a rhythm for the day and catch up to the slow group in front of you. They are drinking, loud and not that interested in playing but just having fun... smoking and you want to enjoy the fresh air ... they are slower but you are waiting every hole... you are walking and they are in carts. If the twosome behind you is waiting every shot, let them thru as it only takes a few minutes and does not slow you down if you are ready to hit as soon as they clear. It is simply being courteous.

 

... Bottom line is golf courses usually set 4 hours for pace of play because it is what works best for the majority of players. Again being courteous and considerate means faster players need to adjust and slow down when necessary and slower players need to speed up and adjust when necessary. If you have the course to yourself, play at whatever pace you want. But the OP saying he wants to enjoy himself at a leisurely pace is a big problem for those trying to balance everything and play at the recommended pace of play. 

I agree with almost everything you say!      The matter of letting twosomes play through is a matter of perspective.  You are looking at it as the twosome waiting behind a foursome; I'm looking at it as a member of the foursome.  My walking group is out for fun, but we are not drinking, loud, smoking, and we care about our golf game.  Yes, a couple of us are deliberate, but we are not slow.  We all play at about the same level; playing 18 holes walking in about 4 hours 10 minutes if we aren't waiting on a group.  If we let every twosome in a cart behind us play through, we wouldn't finish in less than 5 hours.  

 

During the week our group is about the last foursome out in the morning.  After us it's mostly twosomes in carts and an occasional single.  Yes, the clubhouse is partially to blame, but during the week after mid-morning, the course is usually open and people just show up with no tee time.  On our 4th tee, a high point on the course, we can see a lot of the course.  Behind us is a twosome approaching the 3rd green, a twosome in the fairway, and a twosome on the tee.  I get what you are saying about maintaining a rhythm, but so are we.  If the two twosomes behind us would pair up, they could play at a pace that is constant and not have to wait on us.  I am not ruining my round by waiting for a twosome to play through on #3, #5, #6, and #8 on the front nine.  Not happening.  Sorry.  Suck it up.  Join the group behind you and make a new friend.  I do that when I am behind a slower group.

[Kenny B]

I'm not arguing the issue. I'm simply saying that expecting actual coaching for girls hs teams is unrealistic. The coaches barely get paid and are almost always full time teachers who are given the gig as a reward for longevity and a way to make a few bucks. Many if not most are barely golfers themselves. There's just no budget for it in Indiana high schools

 

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Then the governing body needs to set guidelines for the coaches for pace of play.  It's no different than any class curriculum.  

 

It's much different here.  The golf coaches are also teachers, but they are very good golfers themselves.  One H.S. vice-principal, a single digit player, was the girl's coach for a number years before moving on to be principal at another school.  A number of the top boys and girls in the area are also being coached by a local golf academy instructor.  They receive a lot of on-course instruction that includes golf etiquette.  

[Golfspy_CG2]

Somehow missed this thread for 5 months.  Guess that makes me guilty of slow play on the thread...bada boom.

 

Lot's of interesting thoughts. When reading Burk's (mrsmith) initial post, a couple of regular golfers at our course came to mind. they are generally the first or second group of the day off.  Therefore they are the pace setters, but in reality there are often 3 to 5 empty tee times behind them.   But if they play in more than three hours, one particular member ofthe group will gripe about it all morning (in the shop or my office afterward)  Sometimes, they do play TOO fast and catch up too maintenance on the back nine.  When told they are playing too fast, he becomes incredulous.  But tell me exactly when the greens-keepers are supposed to cut those greens or rake those bunkers...that if they left undone in order for you to play in three hours, you'd be the first to complain about them..ha

 

As for myself, i feel if I play (as a foursome) in less than 3.5 hours we must have been rushing without realizing it, or playing very well.   I think 4 hours is perfectly acceptable for most rounds of golf, with players ahead and behind you.   Where I do get a bit upset is if we have a group behind us (say a twosome) pushing when there is no where to go in front of us and we are on pace to play in 4 hours.   Now anything over 4.5 is probably on the lng side, but I have played some courses Cart Path Only and other conditions (stacked tee times) where it's been 4:30 or so and I'm not really irate about it.   5 hours is the point of no return, even as patient as I am, 5 hours is a LONG time, think about it.   some of your longest rounds might have been 4.5 hours, imagine another 30 minutes on that.

 

Now I think Chi said, golf isn't meant to be social, I slightly disagree with that.  Often times the reason I'm going out to play on a Saturday is to spend time with three friends, not so much to beat them or win a tournament.  But to catch up with each other, during the normal course of play.   I agree 100% howerver about the time wasted on greens, tee boxes and fairways.   No one has to rush, but let's play ready/smart considerate golf.

 

Lastly, I love this comment by @CHISAG as well  4. Hit your bad shot and move on to the next bad shot. Don't stand there lamenting how bad that shot was and go thru a swing analysis mirroring positions and then just do it again the next shot. Nothing wrong with being a bad golfer, just don't be a slow bad golfer. 

 

When we send an outing out, one of the last things I or our Head Pro will say during the announcements is, "Play well, Play Fast.  Play Poorly, Play Faster"    I stole that from an old Director of Golf friend of mine, and it always gets a good laugh.  But like he said, there is also truth to the statement!!

[chisag]

... We will just have to agree to disagree on this. There have been plenty of times as a twosome we have teamed up with the twosome behind us, but other times we just did not want to join them for many of the reasons I listed earlier. And of course if you are keeping up with the group in front of you, as a twosome I would never expect to be let thru. Only if you have holes in front of you open. This is just being courteous. But even courteous is open to interpretation. The more courteous you are, the more you are aware of others around you and I would let 10 twosomes thru if I were playing with a slow group and had open holes in front of us. Yet I play behind groups that think it is some proclamation on their ability to let anyone thru. 

... I will add the worst for me is being paired up with a slow 3some that is unaware of the groups around them. I have asked to let groups behind us through only to be told "We had to look for a ball last hole and we will catch up" or some other e use when they never looked back once. It has been my experience that slow groups just don't care that they are slow or are so unaware they don't even know they are slow. 

[null]

Complete lack if self awareness is the main culprit of slow play. Slow players/groups are often 1)unaware of how painfully slow they are and 2) generally don't care about how their actions affect others

[ddryan]

... So interesting to read so many different opinions. But in the end, it always comes down to being courteous and considerate to the rest of the people on the course. 

 

... Golf is not a social gathering, it is an athletic event. The fact that you can socialize while playing is a great bonus of course, but it is secondary to playing the game. Many just don't seem to understand this simple fact. In my experience it is this element that slows the game down the most.

 

1. Watching the group in front of you recount their shots before leaving the green, talking about it and finally moving along just to have the cart girl stop before you tee off and then all 4 interacting with her the whole time is typical of slow golfers. Get your drink/food and then tee off while your friends get their drinks/food. 

 

2. Standing around and talking on the tee box when it is your turn. Hit first, talk second. Got a good joke so you are telling it while the group in front is leaving the green on a par 4 and you are already waiting is very frustrating. 

 

3. Too busy talking and not reading your putt until it is your turn. Sheesh, talk while you look at your putt from as many angles as you need but be ready when it is your turn. 

 

4. Hit your bad shot and move on to the next bad shot. Don't stand there lamenting how bad that shot was and go thru a swing analysis mirroring positions and then just do it again the next shot. Nothing wrong with being a bad golfer, just don't be a slow bad golfer. 

 

5. Be aware of the group behind you. Always. Of course keeping up with the group in front of you cures all, as you can only play as fast as the course allows you to play. 

 

... As a skilled player I can easily walk a course in 2 hours. Not because I want to fly around and I have other things to do, but because it is an athletic event and getting into a rhythm is always better for scoring. By the same token, if the course s pretty full and I am forced to play by myself with nowhere to go, I adjust my rhythm to count for more time between shots.

 

... My wife shoots in the mid 90's while I shoot in the low 70's/60's and she always keeps pace with me. We enjoy each others company and talk between shots and while waiting but we are always ready when it is our turn. And I disagree completely with Kenny B about letting twosome's thru. There are a myriad of reasons not to pair up with the twosome behind you, especially if you have established a rhythm for the day and catch up to the slow group in front of you. They are drinking, loud and not that interested in playing but just having fun... smoking and you want to enjoy the fresh air ... they are slower but you are waiting every hole... you are walking and they are in carts. If the twosome behind you is waiting every shot, let them thru as it only takes a few minutes and does not slow you down if you are ready to hit as soon as they clear. It is simply being courteous.

 

... Bottom line is golf courses usually set 4 hours for pace of play because it is what works best for the majority of players. Again being courteous and considerate means faster players need to adjust and slow down when necessary and slower players need to speed up and adjust when necessary. If you have the course to yourself, play at whatever pace you want. But the OP saying he wants to enjoy himself at a leisurely pace is a big problem for those trying to balance everything and play at the recommended pace of play. 

 

 

Somehow missed this thread for 5 months.  Guess that makes me guilty of slow play on the thread...bada boom.

 

Lot's of interesting thoughts. When reading Burk's (mrsmith) initial post, a couple of regular golfers at our course came to mind. they are generally the first or second group of the day off.  Therefore they are the pace setters, but in reality there are often 3 to 5 empty tee times behind them.   But if they play in more than three hours, one particular member ofthe group will gripe about it all morning (in the shop or my office afterward)  Sometimes, they do play TOO fast and catch up too maintenance on the back nine.  When told they are playing too fast, he becomes incredulous.  But tell me exactly when the greens-keepers are supposed to cut those greens or rake those bunkers...that if they left undone in order for you to play in three hours, you'd be the first to complain about them..ha

 

As for myself, i feel if I play (as a foursome) in less than 3.5 hours we must have been rushing without realizing it, or playing very well.   I think 4 hours is perfectly acceptable for most rounds of golf, with players ahead and behind you.   Where I do get a bit upset is if we have a group behind us (say a twosome) pushing when there is no where to go in front of us and we are on pace to play in 4 hours.   Now anything over 4.5 is probably on the lng side, but I have played some courses Cart Path Only and other conditions (stacked tee times) where it's been 4:30 or so and I'm not really irate about it.   5 hours is the point of no return, even as patient as I am, 5 hours is a LONG time, think about it.   some of your longest rounds might have been 4.5 hours, imagine another 30 minutes on that.

 

Now I think Chi said, golf isn't meant to be social, I slightly disagree with that.  Often times the reason I'm going out to play on a Saturday is to spend time with three friends, not so much to beat them or win a tournament.  But to catch up with each other, during the normal course of play.   I agree 100% howerver about the time wasted on greens, tee boxes and fairways.   No one has to rush, but let's play ready/smart considerate golf.

 

Lastly, I love this comment by @CHISAG as well  4. Hit your bad shot and move on to the next bad shot. Don't stand there lamenting how bad that shot was and go thru a swing analysis mirroring positions and then just do it again the next shot. Nothing wrong with being a bad golfer, just don't be a slow bad golfer. 

 

When we send an outing out, one of the last things I or our Head Pro will say during the announcements is, "Play well, Play Fast.  Play Poorly, Play Faster"    I stole that from an old Director of Golf friend of mine, and it always gets a good laugh.  But like he said, there is also truth to the statement!!

 

Agree with you both- and to add one more thing to help those who perhaps need to pick up the pace- don't fill out the scorecard on the green- walk or drive off to the next tee box, and as one of you is teeing off, the others can record the scores...

 

[chisag]

"Now I think Chi said, golf isn't meant to be social, I slightly disagree with that.  Often times the reason I'm going out to play on a Saturday is to spend time with three friends, not so much to beat them or win a tournament.  But to catch up with each other, during the normal course of play. " 

... What I said was "Golf is not a social gathering, it is an athletic event. The fact that you can socialize while playing is a great bonus of course, but it is secondary to playing the game. There are a million things you can do to socialize with friends that are not athletic endeavors. That said, one of the things I love most about the game is meeting new people and socializing between shots, which I think you are agreeing with. My point was, it is an athletic event first and a social event second. Even when playing with my best friends I am trying to play to the best of my ability when I am over my shot. Between shots can be as social as everyone wants it to be.