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High Greens Fees to keep out Hackers?


Shankster

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Obviously there are some really really nice public courses, as we are finding out in the 100 Pubic courses thread. I personally have not played any. But I am this summer, and they are fairly reasonable as far as price goes.

 

I know Pebble Beach and Whistling Straights are top tier Championship courses that have been a mainstay on the PGA tour for as long as I can remember. At $500+ a round are you paying for the name and the reputation? Or are they trying to keep out all hackers they are not deserved to play on their grass? Or both? If you are looking at hourly, 4 hour round, you are paying $125 a hour to play these prestigious places. But not all of the top 100's want to charge you around $28 per hole. Most of them aren't near that price. Bethpage for example is $75 for a twilight round according to my google search, and Pacific Dunes is around $295, Chambers around $105... all major locations besides the Bandon.

 

One another note, my local course just jacked up the prices from $35 for 18 last year to $48. A pretty significant jump considering... what makes the course worth an extra $13 this year? It doesn't look any better. And the range balls went up $2 a bucket.... same old ratty range balls from last year...!

 

 

 

- Alan

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This is going to be a very big generalization which I usually try to avoid doing. But if anything I think the higher greens fees at those places keep out regular players and create demand for the corporate hackers who only play 2 or three times a year with a client ro impress him.

 

I remember my first time ever playing the courses. Played them both and had the same caddie for both. I shot decently the first day on the Irish course and I struggled a bit the second day on the Straits. I apologized to the caddie for making him work a bit harder.

He laughed and said I was a piece of cake as I was at least keeping the ball on the same hole.

 

He talked of some big "fat cats" his words not mine. Who show up with staff bags and clubs that still have the plastic on them. They of course switch out the staff bag to a club carry bag. Often telling the guy if he gets upset. Sir if you shows is a PGA Tour or PGA of America member card, the caddie will be happy to carry your bag. Ha

 

He said these type players often never break 130, take untold mulligans and often have to buy more balls at the turn.

 

At least my experience from what I heard Over two days, and I did see several groups arriving that at least seemed to fit his description.

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IMP green fees are dictated by the market. If a course can get away with charging $500, they will, while a select few others have intentionally tried to keep green fees reasonable so they don't freeze out the locals.

 

Some where like Shadow Creek has to charge as much as they do, as the amount of work necessary to maintain that course in the desert, combined with fewer rounds, they likely need a lot of the money to sustain itself.

 

I'm not sure many courses use green fees as a way to freeze out duffers. There's a lot of wealthy hacks out there and the course probably doesn't care how good or bad you are.

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On another note, if my math is right... you could play St. Andrews for $228. (If I am incorrect please let me know) Yeah the plane ticket will jack the price up a bit... but I think I'd rather make that trip.

 

 

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On another note, if my math is right... you could play St. Andrews for $228. (If I am incorrect please let me know) Yeah the plane ticket will jack the price up a bit... but I think I'd rather make that trip.

 

 

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Agree with you there. I'd rather take a trip across the pond for a golf trip than go anywhere in the states

 

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And Cabot Links for $175 US. I'm very fond of Links style courses. I've only played one. But Bandon, Acadia Bluffs, and the Gailes have more appeal for me vs desert or heavily wooded courses. Obviously Augusta is heavily wooded, but I'll never be able to play there, so if the opportunity arose I would love Parkland Courses for that moment.

 

 

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Pebble Beach is $500 but like many other destination courses, it is less if you are staying at the resort. In the end, I don't think they are actively trying to keep anyone "out" of the course, they are just maximizing their profits because, they are a business. If you want to play a great course whose ultimate goal is to serve the public, look for one of the fantastic, muni/county/state owned courses like Torrey Pines or Bethpage. They are no where near the cost of those resort courses and usually offer serious discounts based on residency.

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I think a lot of the public/muni courses may raise their fees based on the market as others have said. That and the cost to maintain the course based on the typical conditions in the area. I've seen a slight rise in the fees around my area but nothing too crazy. We typically have a few storms over the summer the take down some trees and big limbs, so it's understandable I think.

 

 

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And Cabot Links for $175 US. I'm very fond of Links style courses. I've only played one. But Bandon, Acadia Bluffs, and the Gailes have more appeal for me vs desert or heavily wooded courses. Obviously Augusta is heavily wooded, but I'll never be able to play there, so if the opportunity arose I would love Parkland Courses for that moment.

 

 

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Would love to do a road trip to the east coast. Lots of awesome courses in the maritime provinces I've heard!

 

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Pebble Beach is $500 but like many other destination courses, it is less if you are staying at the resort. In the end, I don't think they are actively trying to keep anyone "out" of the course, they are just maximizing their profits because in the end, they are a business. If you want to play a great course whose ultimate goal is to serve the public, look for one of the fantastic, muni/county/state owned courses like Torrey Pines or Bethpage. They are no where near the cost of those resort courses and usually offer serious discounts based on residency.

We played Bethpage Black and Green (separate years) but don't Reggie much we paid but was definitely under $100.00.

Since we were out of state (CT) we couldn't make reservations but could get in when players cancelled. We had to be ready to roll when cancellations occurred.

Bethpage is awesome!

 

 

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Rick

 

 

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On another note, if my math is right... you could play St. Andrews for $228. (If I am incorrect please let me know) Yeah the plane ticket will jack the price up a bit... but I think I'd rather make that trip.

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Pretty much all of the historic english/Scottish are reasonably priced when compared to the famous stateside courses(except Bethpage and Torey/ munis).

I think its bc 1. Cheaper to maintain there and 2. They realize they will be packed and people are probably having to travel to play them. Plus they dont want to keep out the locals.

I'd love to make a trip to play the open rota courses but i don't see it happening anytime soon.

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Oh, the other good deal on great courses in the US, those run by Indian casinos! A lot of these places are a bit remote and want to attract people out there to play. For instance, Yoche Dehe is about an hour drive from me, is consistently rated one of America's best public courses and the most they charge is around $100

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So what makes Pebble or WS "worth" more than St. Andrews. Honestly I was expecting it to be $750+ to play the "original" golf course. Two different countries I get that part. But compare golf course to golf course here not location.

 

 

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Cost of round I believe is solely based on market. Big name courses are under more demand and as such can ask for more. On a local level, courses are not seeing that demand, so they raise costs to keep open. At least that is how I like to look at it 😎

 

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Define "hacker". Do you mean people bad at golf or people who don't respect the game/course? I know plenty of high caps that spend way more on golf than I ever would.

 

 

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Hacker = terrible golfer, loses a ball on every hole. Slows down play. Could also be a AHole. Could just be uneducated.

 

AHole = punks that disrespect the course, leave pitch marks, hit into people, run on the greens, yells at his buddies from 100 yards away... could also be a hacker.

 

We've all run across people that should probably take up a different hobby. You know the guy that shoots at least a 200, takes 7' deep divots with driver...

 

I'll use me for an example. I really want to take my mountain bike down a large hill at high rates of speed. I know for sure I would be in the hospital. I'd consider myself a "hacker" of a mountain bike rider. Or surfing, you know I've always wanted to surf, but I have no experience and I'm sure I would suck at it and all the locals would be like... well I don't even know because I don't know surf terms... see my point?

 

I could very well be a hacker and a AHole at either mountain biking or surfing because I don't know the etiquette.

 

 

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On another note, if my math is right... you could play St. Andrews for $228. (If I am incorrect please let me know) Yeah the plane ticket will jack the price up a bit... but I think I'd rather make that trip.

 

 

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The Old Course is probably $228 if you were able to get on through the daily lottery, but it's typically a lot more to get on, either by booking through an agency or something else.

 

Many of the Scottish/Irish courses are interested in attracting tourism to some extent and considering how much it costs for flight and lodging, the green fees are tempered with all those considerations.

 

Pebble and Whistling are resort destinations where many are willing to pay their prices for convenience to a metro area and based on the accolades stateside. Quite honestly, As someone who is an avid course architecture fan, there are several courses I'll never play because I don't think they're worth the price tag. In the US that is.

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I'll say this. You really shouldn't compare the resort courses that cost $500 to other courses. Bc you get the best bang for your buck with them when you buy a package for like a grand or 1.5k. Usually comes with a night or 2 at the resort, a spa package for the wife. Sometimes dinner and a couple days of golf. Value wise its the better play. More money overall but it is a resort after all.

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Oh, the other good deal on great courses in the US, those run by Indian casinos! A lot of these places are a bit remote and want to attract people out there to play. For instance, Yoche Dehe is about an hour drive from me, is consistently rated one of America's best public courses and the most they charge is around $100

One of the forum guys is playing Dancing Rabbit (casino course) this weekend with his league buddies.

Great golf course for the money imo. Definitely agree with you here.

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Irons- Mizuno MP- FLI HI 2i w/ Aldila Proto ByYou 100X
          Mizuno MP59 4i-6I w/ PX 6.5

          Mizuno MP69 7i-PW w/ PX 6.5

Wedges- Scratch 8620 Driver/Slider set.  50*, 54* bent to 55* and 60*

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As much as you'd like to think that money would discourage the dross from the serious and accomplished golfer, the opposite is normally the case. At around £400 per round green fee for Wentworth West course, every year there are the worst and most disrespectful golfers I have ever seen hacking it around one of the worlds most prestigious course simply because they have the disposable income to do so.  

Don't ever assume that money has anything to do with manners and taste because historically it has continuously been proven otherwise. Anyone who has teed it up at Ballybunion recently will know exactly what I'm talking about too.

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One of the forum guys is playing Dancing Rabbit (casino course) this weekend with his league buddies.

Great golf course for the money imo. Definitely agree with you here.

I'll jump in on this too. Sweet Grass a Casino course near by that hosts a Symetra Event. I just played it a few weeks ago for $55, and normal summer rates are $85 with unlimited replay.

 

 

- Alan

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Market demand will always drive the price. For the Pebble Beach properties of the world, it is different than the local daily fee for obvious reasons. Being an assistant club pro from '06 - '14 (daily fee and private), I can tell you first hand that a tremendous amount of variables go into determining what the green and cart fees will be for a calendar year.

 

If a property was in the black the previous year then why not keep the fees the same or raise them (that's m thought). If the forecast says the market will turn up the same amount of rounds and people using the practice tee then it would be of benefit to increase the cost incrementally.

 

During my time at a daily fee property, in no way did we target certain types of golfers when analyzing fees for the year. Will certain properties do that? My guess is yes, but with as cutthroat an industry as it is, most places feel that everyone's dollar spends the same.

 

If we wanted to deter (I hate the term "keep out" cause it feels discriminatory for public courses) certain types of golfers then we would do it via dress code and pace of play enforced by Marshalls on the course.

 

 

 

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We are all hackers and chops(some more than others).If I reduced my play to a few times a year.I would easily pay the $500 for a round of golf.If I'm really going to hack it up I might as well do it with nice scenery.Make my few rounds a year memorable.

Keep it in the short stuff

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Pebble is worth the money, at least once.

 

Bethpage is a city muni, totally different concept. Like Torrey south for a resident is $45 or something in that ball park.

 

St. Andrews is not expensive if you get your number called. If you book through an agency it is every bit as much as pebble.

 

Some experiences are worth the $$ some are not

 

 

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We are talking the top 100 public courses ranked. The resort courses, munis, and others are all grouped as "public" so as public courses, looked at as public courses only not the resort or if the state/county owns it. In comparison, #1 Pebble Beach is $500 and #11 Acadia Bluffs is $110.

 

 

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We are talking the top 100 public courses ranked. The resort courses, munis, and others are all grouped as "public" so as public courses, looked at as public courses only not the resort or if the state/county owns it. In comparison, #1 Pebble Beach is $500 and #11 Acadia Bluffs is $110.

 

 

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True, but "public" is a relative term. Yes, pebble is public, but you aren't just walking up and getting on. Nor are you at bethpage black, unless you show at 0430 and get in line. At the end of the day, I don't think any course is jacking up prices to keep people away.

 

 

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First hand knowledge thanks Burk. My thought is though... What makes them so special? Skip the resort part. Are they really worth $500?

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I understand your question. But is really hard to separate them. I stayed at Pinehurst Resort last year for 2 nights and two rounds of golf, a couple dinners, breakfast daily. It was a good value in my mind for $1200. Include full locker room access with a shoe shine. Plus the atmosphere of walking the halls of the clubhouse, the rocking chairs on the porch of 18 on No.2, with a beer in hand watching groups come in.

 

Much the same at Kohler with the locker room, upstairs cigar bar, all present a true unique experience. I haven't been to pebble, but would expect its even more of the same.

 

It makes for the total package.

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