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Dr Strangelove

Club weighting -- shaft weights or lead tape?

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I found an article by Tom Wishon stating that you're OK with putting up to about 12 grams into the shaft (whether via powder or tip weight).  At 12 grams it DOES start to impact your swing characteristics.

 

I suspected at some point this had to be the case.  If you take it to absurd limits... say put a 50 gram tip weight into the shaft... there's no way that it would not impact how one would manipulate the club during the swing.

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I put 70 gram Kuro Kage shafts in my 712 AP 1 irons -- A flex as I am 67 and had a shoulder injury.  (had stiff shafts) -- these feel way too light, even with light grips.  Should I put lead tape on them?  Center of the club head at the bottom?  

 

Thanks...

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I put 70 gram Kuro Kage shafts in my 712 AP 1 irons -- A flex as I am 67 and had a shoulder injury.  (had stiff shafts) -- these feel way too light, even with light grips.  Should I put lead tape on them?  Center of the club head at the bottom?  

 

Thanks...

Have you checked to see what the  Swing-Weight of your re-shafted irons are ????

I would think if they are C8 to D4 , you're just fine !!

Swing-Weight is grossly mis-understood, the idea is to make all your irons feel & thus swing to feel.

I think it was Sam Snead, he could tell when 1 of his clubs was just 1 swing weight out of sync with the rest of his set..  There were & are many golfers who can tell [feel] the difference !!

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I added lead tape as they were way too light...still not heavy enough.  Have gone back to Titleist 735's with Nippon shaft -- forged and much heavier.  Lost a club in distance but have regained feel.  I cannot handle light...obviously.

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As far as I'm concerned, lead tape is one of the best things ever invented.  It's not expensive, it can be used on any club without having to pull it apart, it's easy to use, the desired swingweight can be achieved easily, and if you change your mind it can be peeled off without damaging the finish of the clubhead.  There are some guys who don't like it because of the way it looks.  They want their irons to look "stock", and they feel lead tape looks junky.

 

This is why club manufacturers use tip weights...it's a way to add weight when needed and keep it hidden.  This maintains a clean look.  Many players are surprised or upset when they find out their expensive new set of irons were built with tip weights, and that it is an indication their club heads were not manufactured to high standards.  Keep in mind that due to manufacturing tolerances, iron heads can vary +/- in weight by several grams, and the same goes for grips.  

 

Given the choice, I'd rather use lead tape applied across the back of the head rather than in the hosel.  I know there is some debate on how much the weight position affects performance, but I'll throw my thoughts into the ring on this...I think it does take a lot of weight to change the location of the center of gravity, but not as much to affect the ball flight.  I have also used powder down the shaft (lead powder & tungsten powder) but this is my least preferred method.  If you have powdered  weight sitting on top of a hosel  and it stretches 5-6" up the shaft, the ball flight would have to be different than if that weight was moved to behind the sweet spot.                                                                                                                                                                                                                          

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I just added tip weights to all of my irons and wedges to get close to desired swing weight, then finished off with lead tape on the heads to get it dead on.  Feels great and did what I wanted.

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Going back to the original post,

I believe you are asking two separate questions.

1) Swing weight what is it/ where to add weight and

2) what's with moving weight around on/in the head.

 

Swing weight IMO is a measurement from a scale that can show you the consistency of your build. Most golfers cant feel a 1-3 SW pt change. Although there are some that are sensitive to it they are in the minority. For the OEM it can be used as a marketing tool and a QA tool. Advertising the D-2 or D-4 Sw in the spec and then doing QA checks to make sure they are making a consistent product.  now for the first answer, adding a tip weight is more cosmetic appealing meaning you can't see it. However if you don't have the facilities or time then using lead tape to gain your "feel" will have to do. Which leads into the next question

 

Moving weight around in the club head itself can impact the way the head is delivered into the ball. This has been going on since the wood wood era. when drilling holes and placing weights or molten lead in them and covered with the sole plate. Now the larger companies have movable weights on the heads. How much needs moved to truly impact the change? There is the million $$ question. Golfers are a unique in that the slightest change say in appearance at address can affect the way a club is swung. All things created equal I would say you have to move at least 10-12g to get some sort of real change. up down, left or right. 

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Going back to the original post,

I believe you are asking two separate questions.

1) Swing weight what is it/ where to add weight and

2) what's with moving weight around on/in the head.

 

Swing weight IMO is a measurement from a scale that can show you the consistency of your build. Most golfers cant feel a 1-3 SW pt change. Although there are some that are sensitive to it they are in the minority. For the OEM it can be used as a marketing tool and a QA tool. Advertising the D-2 or D-4 Sw in the spec and then doing QA checks to make sure they are making a consistent product.  now for the first answer, adding a tip weight is more cosmetic appealing meaning you can't see it. However if you don't have the facilities or time then using lead tape to gain your "feel" will have to do. Which leads into the next question

 

Moving weight around in the club head itself can impact the way the head is delivered into the ball. This has been going on since the wood wood era. when drilling holes and placing weights or molten lead in them and covered with the sole plate. Now the larger companies have movable weights on the heads. How much needs moved to truly impact the change? There is the million $$ question. Golfers are a unique in that the slightest change say in appearance at address can affect the way a club is swung. All things created equal I would say you have to move at least 10-12g to get some sort of real change. up down, left or right. 

12g is what Tom Wishon suggested was the limit as well. 12g and above in the shaft tip WILL move the center of gravity.

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I added lead tape as they were way too light...still not heavy enough.  Have gone back to Titleist 735's with Nippon shaft -- forged and much heavier.  Lost a club in distance but have regained feel.  I cannot handle light...obviously.

 

 

... If you have been playing awhile and used to a certain weight an balance in your irons, it is very difficult for most to go to very light shafts as it throws of the static weight and balance so tempo can suffer. As I grew older I went from 130gm graphite irons shafts to 105, then 100 and finally 95. I tried VS Proto 85gm shafts and they are just too light and adding enough weight to the head changed the overall balance and feel, so my tempo really suffered. If you are still inclined, I would suggest you try a 95gm graphite iron shaft and you may find some additional distance and a much better feel as well as protecting your shoulder. 

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I decided to out to garage and weight my irons and driver. I used my Maltby Golf Club Scale. (See below) I bought this thing recently off ebay because it was a good deal and I thought it might come in handy one day. Anyway... here's what some of my clubs weighed.

 

Irons: D2

PW: D3

52,56,60: D4

Driver: D6 w/ TW 11.3 oz. 

My iron shafts are all Aerotech i80

 

If anyone want to analyze this feel free to do so. I play well with these clubs.

 

 

20180526_132412.jpg

 

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You carry no fairway metal clubs or hybrids, just straight from a long iron to the driver ?

 

Yea I carry a 4w but didn't weigh it. I did just weigh my 4i. It's a TM Burner 2.0 from an old set I used to bag. 

It's a D2 also with an 85g R-flex TM branded steel shaft. I use this iron over my Wishon 4i because it's a little easier to hit. I might only pull it once a round if that. Usually off the tee on a par 5 with a sharp left dogleg off the tee. Other times perhaps if I'm needing to hit a low runner from under a tree or something. No hybrids. I carry 13 clubs including putter.

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IMHO it's really easy to get carried away obsessing over swingweight, as it's been shown here when people are arguing over 5 gram or 10 gram increments. ... And as a result these conversations always bring me back to an example an old wise clubmaker gave me when giving me a lesson, when he handed me a sheet of copy paper, and said, "That's roughly 5 grams. You mean to tell me you can feel that difference in a piece of metal, on the end of a stick, or is it that your head is telling you that you can feel the difference?"

A few strips of lead tape are the equivalent of putting a paper wing on a 747.

 

Seriously though, never underestimate the power of the placebo.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

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IMHO it's really easy to get carried away obsessing over swingweight, as it's been shown here when people are arguing over 5 gram or 10 gram increments. ... And as a result these conversations always bring me back to an example an old wise clubmaker gave me when giving me a lesson, when he handed me a sheet of copy paper, and said, "That's roughly 5 grams. You mean to tell me you can feel that difference in a piece of metal, on the end of a stick, or is it that your head is telling you that you can feel the difference?"

I hear ya RP and I agree. Sure I have a basic weight scale but I bought it as a novelty really.

I don't get carried away with all the golf club weighting, fitting, shafts, etc. etc.  Honestly it bores me. I just know how a club feels and plays regardless of all the granular details. However.... at my last fitting I certainly do recall and as my fitting progressed my fitter started adding small amounts of weight to my irons and I remember telling him that such and such definitely feels better. Saw the effects it was having on my ball flight too. When we were finished I asked about the weighting and he held out his hand showing me several small round shots. He said this is the weight I'll add to your irons. I said, "that's it?" Yes.. it was small but made a difference.

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I recall reading somewhere that +/- 2g in the clubhead = 1 SW.

 

The ratio was different if that same 2g was in the tip, somewhere else on the shaft, the grip, etc.

 

FWIW

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The longer the lever, the more the leverage. This works both ways. Ad in acceleration and speed and the forceis increased. 5 grams CAN "be" heavier than 5 grams.

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.

Oh, I'm not disagreeing with you.

Some people can feel the difference, there's been many stories about big name tour players that could tell minute (1gr.) difference in clubhead weights or (1/16") in shaft tipping, but I'm just saying most people can't.

Couldn't agree more.

Many try and make tour pros out to be like they have some 7th sense that none of us ever could imagine. Laughable. That'd be like saying your senator or congressman is smarter or wiser than you. Don't get me started. LOL

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... If you have been playing awhile and used to a certain weight an balance in your irons, it is very difficult for most to go to very light shafts as it throws of the static weight and balance so tempo can suffer. As I grew older I went rom 130gm graphite irons shots to 105, then 100 and finally 95. I tried VS Proto 85gm shafts and they are just too light and adding enough weight to the head changed the overall balance and feel, so my tempo really suffered. If you are still inclined, I would suggest you try a 95gm graphite iron shaft and you may find some additional distance and a much better feel as well as protecting your shoulder. 

 

Looking at this...my shoulder is healed but I cannot get the club into the proper position at the top -- and I am not having another shoulder surgery.  So I am trying a shorter, flatter swing plane -- think Jason Dufner -- and it works with some success.  I looked up and these older irons are 2 degrees more upright than the 712's.  Giving up distance is not what I need -- especially at sea level.

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... Do not under estimate the shock steel shafts have on your joints. Especially of you have had problems in the past. Of course this depends on how much you play and practice. Playing 33 out of 36 days in Phoenix, my graphite iron shafts make a very big difference on the wear and tear my joints experience. Playing once a week it probably isn't even a consideration, especially if you are not practicing and taking divots.  

... I have always felt wedges should come standard with graphite shafts, even 130gm very heavy graphite because they take such big and deep divots really pounding your joints. But the human body is an amazing mechanism and some are very prone to joint problems in golf while others never experience a problem. Like everything else in this game there is no one size fits all. Good luck with your swing change. 

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After a few months the verdict is clear -- the Kuro Kage shafts are too light and weak for me.  I am hitting the Titleist 775 CB with Nippon Pro Regular shafts very solid...can move the ball left and right much easier.

 

I am tempted to put these shafts into the AP1 712's -- but not really sure that would make a big difference in scoring.  I just know that hitting a 7 iron 145 at sea level is far enough...

 

My bigger problem is that my putting has gone to hell -- have the beginnings of cataracts but cannot have surgery now.  

 

Father time is undefeated...but I'm still playing 3x most weeks....

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