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Cheaters on Tour

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Danny Lee is who I was thinking too but Danny doesn't use a long putter and that's one of the things that was mentioned in the article. The long putter really narrows the group down. Heck if I'm in a bad divot in the fairway I roll it out a little to get a better shot. I play a lot with random people because I work a different schedule than my weekend golf buddies so I tend to play it where it lies more because of it being with people I'm not familiar with and don't want to have them say something. I've played some shots that honestly I never should have tried to do and that most pros wouldn't try but I get a kick out of those shots sometimes.

I wasn't venturing a guess as to who Phil was covertly referencing in OP's linked article. Only that Nicklaus gave just enough information during his Masters press conference following the Lexi debacle that with very little digging I was able to zero in on Danny Lee as the player who was the recipient of a stern ball mark lecture during the last Presidents Cup.

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Guys one more time with a little oomph.. Its Billy Mayfair and its been going on for decades. Here's a nice little tweet that is very telling if you read the responses.
Has a long history of this stuff.

 

 

 

edit: spoiler alert, a lot of fellow pros comment.

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Regardless of who it is I'm surprised at some of the things I'm reading.

 

Fully agree on the casual round stuff - I could care less what anyone does when we are out playing for fun even with a few bucks on the line so long as we agree to it up front or at some point during the round.

 

But in a tournament or place where we've agreed to play strictly by the rules? Really? This isn't baseball or football where the umps or refs legislate it as we go along - it's golf - it's up to the player to know the rules and abide by them. I'm sure that I've broken a rule in that type of round but generally speaking it's been unwittingly - taking a drop under the lateral water Hazzard rule at a white stake type thing -

 

Instead of skirting the rules we should be trying to play by them to the best of our ability to do so in a tournament setting.

 

 

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Following the sentiments of everyone else, PGA Tour level, not ok, weekend hacker, to some extent alright. 

 

My buddy and I talk about it all the time, the courses we play arent PGA tour kept, so the grass is missing in spots or burned out, just general things these guys would have to deal with. Most of the time we just tell the other person move the ball and dont break a club or wrist

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Regardless of who it is I'm surprised at some of the things I'm reading.

 

Fully agree on the casual round stuff - I could care less what anyone does when we are out playing for fun even with a few bucks on the line so long as we agree to it up front or at some point during the round.

 

But in a tournament or place where we've agreed to play strictly by the rules? Really? This isn't baseball or football where the umps or refs legislate it as we go along - it's golf - it's up to the player to know the rules and abide by them. I'm sure that I've broken a rule in that type of round but generally speaking it's been unwittingly - taking a drop under the lateral water Hazzard rule at a white stake type thing -

 

Instead of skirting the rules we should be trying to play by them to the best of our ability to do so in a tournament setting.

 

 

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I generally don't give a crap about my playing partners fallowing the rules during a casual round but I 100% agree in regards to any type of tournament or competitive setting. At that point, you are protecting the integrity of the field. 

Sadly I had to call out a hacker in the club championship a few years ago. He really shouldn't have been playing anyway but he did with his 2 buddies and myself in the 1st round. He had trouble making ANY putts and picked up a couple of times. I warned him about it and even told his buddies that he needed to try and finish out if he was going to play in these type of events. The response I got from them was "dude its just a club event, chill out." I told them to take that junk to the scrambles and that if they wanted to play for real in a club championship then they needed to play by the rules. I ended up having to call a couple of penalties on him on the back 9 because he didn't change much. His friends were upset but I told them they were lucky I wasn't a stickler because he should've been DQ'd. Alot of the other people they could've played with at that club would've DQ'd him after the 1st few holes. 

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I generally don't give a crap about my playing partners fallowing the rules during a casual round but I 100% agree in regards to any type of tournament or competitive setting. At that point, you are protecting the integrity of the field. 

Sadly I had to call out a hacker in the club championship a few years ago. He really shouldn't have been playing anyway but he did with his 2 buddies and myself in the 1st round. He had trouble making ANY putts and picked up a couple of times. I warned him about it and even told his buddies that he needed to try and finish out if he was going to play in these type of events. The response I got from them was "dude its just a club event, chill out." I told them to take that junk to the scrambles and that if they wanted to play for real in a club championship then they needed to play by the rules. I ended up having to call a couple of penalties on him on the back 9 because he didn't change much. His friends were upset but I told them they were lucky I wasn't a stickler because he should've been DQ'd. Alot of the other people they could've played with at that club would've DQ'd him after the 1st few holes. 

 

Totally agree with you. I have no care in the world if it is a casual round on the weekend and that is how the players I am paired with would like to play. i do have an issue if it is in a tournament setting for sure

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Casual rounds drop it where it went out, bump it if your lie is redonk, that's how our group plays. Tournament though, you better abide by the rules.

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My buds with whom I regularly play and I understand that local rules can be established.  Heck, even the pros will play lift, clean and place on a wet course.   So we have established our own set of local rules so to speak.   If one's ball lies is a divot, we consider it ground under repair.  All stakes are either red or yellow, there are no white stakes.  We understand that at the venues we play, bunkers are not always properly raked.   If one's ball is in a footprint for example, one can rake the bunker and replace the ball.   We have what we label the endangerment rule, if your ball lies in an area where your club can be damaged or the player can be physically hurt, the endangerment rule applies ( drop without penalty at the nearest point of relief).   

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To each their own but if you actually care about making them in tournaments, I'd advise you to _always_ putt 'em. I've had gambling buddies try to give me 8 footers because in their words "they've never seen me miss one", their perspective is obviously hyperbole (and a thinly veiled effort to expand my own give radius) but I _always_ putt _everything_ regardless. I don't see any reason to keep score otherwise.

But we _are_ a genteel group that does stuff like stand ready to rake bunkers for your playing partner and cleaning up spike mark scuffs in our competitors' lines because they can't officially do it themselves. There are ways to play within the rules and still keep the gambling completely friendly. If I'm giving someone a whooping; just because I start conceding putts on the gambling sheet, doesn't mean they can't turn in a legit handicap round on the official scorecard.

 

However, if we really want to get philosophical about the morality of not always holing out, I believe the only person getting cheated is yourself. Specifically of the opportunity to practice your grit.

 

 

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Bottom line, if you're out there to have fun, do what it takes to have fun. If you're playing in a tournament, you follow the rules or you don't play in tournaments.

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Bottom line, if you're out there to have fun, do what it takes to have fun. If you're playing in a tournament, you follow the rules or you don't play in tournaments.

Yes although an earlier poster made the point about putting them out to be ready for tournament play - I'm old enough that I've putted them out enough so that I really can go back and forth just fine. Some people can't.

 

Back to those occasions when we are playing by the rules do guys really cheat that blatantly and frequently - I'm stunned- totally stunned by that revelation. I don't ever recall catching someone out and out cheating in a club or city type championship.

 

I've been accused of it twice - both times regarding practice between holes. My accusers were wrong both times. That's why I carry a rule book. :)

 

 

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Imagine if everyone cheated the game would no longer be fun. Impossible to compete because you would be trying to outcheat your opponent. Why have a handicap system? Everyone could play even if you cheat your way to the finish. When you are playing on a Calcutta for your member guest or member member it would be very disturbing to think you threw away hundreds of dollars because people chose to cheat and steal your money.

 

 

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Imagine if everyone cheated the game would no longer be fun. Impossible to compete because you would be trying to outcheat your opponent. Why have a handicap system? Everyone could play even if you cheat your way to the finish. When you are playing on a Calcutta for your member guest or member member it would be very disturbing to think you threw away hundreds of dollars because people chose to cheat and steal your money.

 

 

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Well there's cheating and there's cheating. So you have some who improve their lie or don't call that penalty that only they could know about. I'm guessing it's a ridiculously small amount on tour and even among AMs although after this thread I'm starting to wonder. :(

 

There are also those who cheat on their handicaps by not entering all their scores or purposely tanking some rounds.

 

That's cheating too. A number of years ago we had these two guys in our Men's club that were the later type of cheater. I got one of them as my C player in a Calcutta. He shot 76 as a 16 in a tournament where only three guys broke 80 - I was one of the other 2. We won by a godzillion. I felt so guilty that after taking my family to dinner I gave the rest of my winnings to the club's tree fund. He and his buddy were asked to leave the club.

 

 

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Most of my MGA tournaments we play 18 inch gimmes....who cares

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Most of my MGA tournaments we play 18 inch gimmes....who cares

If you're posting scores that include a whole mess of gimmes, the USGA handicap committee cares. And so do I for that matter.

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If you're posting scores that include a whole mess of gimmes, the USGA handicap committee cares. And so do I for that matter.

Let him have them. Just means he's screwing himself on his handicap in legit stroke play.  ;)

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Let him have them. Just means he's screwing himself on his handicap in legit stroke play. ;)

I concur TBT's handicap correlation coefficient will skew in an unenviable direction. But to me, the whole notion of gimmes is abhorrent. For the great majority of golfers, as proximity to the hole decreases, their ego potential subsequently increases. In modern society, opportunities to test your individual grit are becoming fewer. I can't understand why anyone chooses to cheat themselves out of the unique lesson in effort vs outcome presented by the '3 footer'. Golf is like an onion and in addition to returning a legitimate score, playing by _all the rules_ exposes more of the valuable layers this game has to offer.

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My buds with whom I regularly play and I understand that local rules can be established. Heck, even the pros will play lift, clean and place on a wet course. So we have established our own set of local rules so to speak. If one's ball lies is a divot, we consider it ground under repair. All stakes are either red or yellow, there are no white stakes. We understand that at the venues we play, bunkers are not always properly raked. If one's ball is in a footprint for example, one can rake the bunker and replace the ball. We have what we label the endangerment rule, if your ball lies in an area where your club can be damaged or the player can be physically hurt, the endangerment rule applies ( drop without penalty at the nearest point of relief).

Never heard the "endangerment rule" but I like it.

 

 

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