Why the USGA needs an Open Rotation

[mrsmith123]

For me, I am of the opinion that the USGA desperately needs to follow the R&A model for the Open Championship course rotation.  Now, we have significantly more golf course options then they do over there but I have looked through US Open history and current championship layout options and come up with a personal list that I would go with if I had the power to control where the US Open goes each year.  Now, my question is, how many years would you put for a rotation and what courses would you choose? Also, maybe you would include a course currently not ever used for the US Open?

 

My decision would be a 10-Year rotation for courses, and a minimum requirement of one major tournament (USGA or PGA) hosted previously.  I say ten years because we have so many quality venues, historical site options, and large geographic area to cover (I think each area of the country deserves a shot).  Here goes:

 

1. Merion (Pennsylvania)

2. Pinehurst No.2 (North Carolina)

3. The Country Club (Massachusetts)

4. Pebble Beach (California)

5. Oakland Hills (Michigan)

6. Oakmont (Pennsylvania)

7. Medina (Illinois)

8. Congressional (Maryland)

9. East Lake (Georgia)

10. Colonial CC (Texas)

 

I know that Colonial is a wild card in there, but it is a top-100 course and would set up great for an open if the USGA did their thing.  So what do you all think?

[Shankster]

Yes!

 

 

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[Shankster]

Put this over in the US Open thread, but very similar Burk.

 

This needs to be the US Open Rotation:

 

1. OAKMONT

 

2. OLYMPIC CLUB

 

3. MERION

 

4. WINGED FOOT

 

5. PINEHURST

 

6. TORREY PINES

 

7. PEBBLE BEACH

 

8. BALTUSROL

 

9. MEDINAH

 

10. HAZELTINE

 

 

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[DiscipleofPenick]

These are all great courses but The Colonial and East Lake have their own tournaments already. I think it's been a long time since the Country Club has hosted. But that doesn't mean because it was awhile for Merion too. I don't would add Bethpage and Shinnicock Hills in.

 

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[Philly Golf Guy]

I don't think the US open should go to a rota. That's what the Open does and while it's great, it's not what the USO is about.

 

I enjoy the USGA taking the tournament to other courses and displaying an array of different landscapes and challenges. It's been interesting hearing the complaints since Merion and the main theme is tree lined difficulty is demanded. Many complained of how brown Pinehurst looked on tv, chambers Bay had the greens issue which many almost took personally, last year it was the 'tricked up greens,' but as far as I'm concerned the tournament has done a great job of identifying the best player of the tournament as the winner (except those years when Webb and Glover won).

 

As for the suggested course rota, Merion had to exhaust the community in order for the major to take place, I don't see it happening again for another 15-20 years. Medinah would not be a very good course for it because it's not all that difficult or good and easy lake and colonial are already on tour and neither of them can probably raise themselves to us open standards any more.

 

For purposes of the thread, if there was a rota, I'd go

 

Oakmont

Pebble

Pinehurst

Pasatiempo

Shinnecock

Olympic Club

Bethpage (although seems to be Barclays now)

Ridgewood

Winged foot

Erin Hills

Chambers Bay

Sand valley?

[Big money]

Medinah not good and easy???

 

Located in a major us hub.Plenty of accessibility.Unlimited room for expansion.Was told by a member they have room to make this track 10000 yards if needed.Many courses on your list have hit their expansion limits.Any course under 7500 yards will be obsolete by tour player standards.

[revkev]

Medinah not good and easy???

 

Located in a major us hub.Plenty of accessibility.Unlimited room for expansion.Was told by a member they have room to make this track 10000 yards if needed.Many courses on your list have hit their expansion limits.Any course under 7500 yards will be obsolete by tour player standards.

I keep hearing that - any course under 7500 obsolete - but it's the shorter courses that prove more problematic. Our own (Pinellas County FL) Copperhead course is not that long. No par 4 approaches 500 yards and yet -7 won this year without it being set up even close to a US Open.

 

Modern guys get antsy with tight, short, trees and deep rough so look at those courses. Several nice rotations mentioned that include those kinds of courses. If ever the USGA wants to return to Wisconsin I would suggest my favorite course ever - Black Wolf Run's original 18 - it's held up well for a wide variety of events and if it were set up for a US Open it would be a hoot. IMO it's a perfect golf course and I've played lots of great courses. If you told me tomorrow would be my last round- I'd play there! Over Pebble, over Bethpage, over Sawgrass or anything else. I've seen Shinnecock and my sense is that if I got to play it .....

 

Oh and I'd have a nice scotch and cigar on the back porch after the round at Blackwolf.

 

 

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[mrsmith123]

Medinah not good and easy???

 

Located in a major us hub.Plenty of accessibility.Unlimited room for expansion.Was told by a member they have room to make this track 10000 yards if needed.Many courses on your list have hit their expansion limits.Any course under 7500 yards will be obsolete by tour player standards.

I think we have to remember that Merion is a sub 7000 course.

 

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[Big money]

I keep hearing that - any course under 7500 obsolete - but it's the shorter courses that prove more problematic. Our own (Pinellas County FL) Copperhead course is not that long. No par 4 approaches 500 yards and yet -7 won this year without it being set up even close to a US Open.

Modern guys get antsy with tight, short, trees and deep rough so look at those courses. Several nice rotations mentioned that include those kinds of courses. If ever the USGA wants to return to Wisconsin I would suggest my favorite course ever - Black Wolf Run's original 18 - it's held up well for a wide variety of events and if it were set up for a US Open it would be a hoot. IMO it's a perfect golf course and I've played lots of great courses. If you told me tomorrow would be my last round- I'd play there! Over Pebble, over Bethpage, over Sawgrass or anything else. I've seen Shinnecock and my sense is that if I got to play it .....

Oh and I'd have a nice scotch and cigar on the back porch after the round at Blackwolf.

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nice.When my mother told me to make my life in the church I should've listened.You play everywhere my friend.

[Shankster]

We don't need to make anything longer. That ruins the original design. They do need to figure out a distance for par 4's to end and Par 5's to start.

 

Is a 551 yard hole a par 4 or par 5? Depends on the course right? If courses have short par 5's just call them par 4's and make it a par 67-68 course. We wouldn't see 58's if they'd say anything under 560 is a par 4.

 

Just my morning nonsense.

 

 

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[Shankster]

And it all needs to revolve around Oakmont. Historic, brutal, entertaining, and gorgeous. I like the rotation idea. That's why the Masters and the British are my favorites. Same course for the Masters that we've all came to love. And for the most part the same courses for the British. I love the St. Andrews years.

 

 

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[revkev]

nice.When my mother told me to make my life in the church I should've listened.You play everywhere my friend.[/

 

My parents were nouveau riche so they were anxious to spend their money when I was a teen. Sadly they also blew through two fortunes but hey it's only money and they were good parents so I wouldn't trade.

 

Now I have great friends who invite me to play with them. I've done lots of stuff that I can't afford because of being in the right place at the right time. I've been ver blessed.

 

 

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[mrsmith123]

We don't need to make anything longer. That ruins the original design. They do need to figure out a distance for par 4's to end and Par 5's to start.

 

Is a 551 yard hole a par 4 or par 5? Depends on the course right? If courses have short par 5's just call them par 4's and make it a par 67-68 course. We wouldn't see 58's if they'd say anything under 560 is a par 4.

 

Just my morning nonsense.

 

 

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I agree that length of a course doesn't necessarily make it more difficult. If we look at the Masters tournament, after the lengthening period occurred, the scores have been just as low on average then what they were before. In my opinion they destroyed that golf course and Bobby must be rolling in his grave.

 

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[null]

Gotta agree with Philly Golf Guy - I don't think they should go to a rotation as I like seeing new courses host the open every few years

[StrokerAce]

2 things I think are important about the U.S. Open

 

1. I think that a good geographic distribution is important; make sure that you have the entire country covered so that people have the opportunity to attend in person.

 

2. play at courses which are available to the public; there's just something about playing at a course where you've seen the best in the world tee it up on television; remembering where they hit their shots compared to yours, wondering if you can pull off the same type of shot they did, etc...

[Big money]

nice.When my mother told me to make my life in the church I should've listened.You play everywhere my friend.[/

 

My parents were nouveau riche so they were anxious to spend their money when I was a teen. Sadly they also blew through two fortunes but hey it's only money and they were good parents so I wouldn't trade.

 

Now I have great friends who invite me to play with them. I've done lots of stuff that I can't afford because of being in the right place at the right time. I've been ver blessed.

 

 

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good stuff rev.My family opposite, but they were rich in family and Jesus.Their lives-(and ours growing up) revolved around attending church 2 - 3 times a week.They seriously wanted me to follow the ways of the church as a career.Now I've been blessed with the financial, but need to be more rich in the church-family as well.Great stuff Rev, I was a coin flip away from following your path.And what a wonderful path you chose.You can never spend enough time with Jesus

[djahubes]

No rotation, too many awesome venues out there

 

 

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[stage1350]

I think you can have a rota of courses that get it every other year,  (Oakmont, Pebble, Pinehurst, etc.)  But I think it's also in the best interest of the game to continue to find and build championship courses worthy of the national championship.  Plus, God forbid that politics get involved in a rota course like Muirfield did where we have calls to eliminate that course from hosting USGA championships.  

 

There are certainly a number of courses worthy of multiple opens, with Oakmont obviously proving that point over and over.  But I liked that an architect like Hurdzan has a chance to be showcased like he was with Erin Hills.  I've never played a Dr. Mike course that I didn't really enjoy.

[TheWahoo]

I agree with those that don't think there should be an established rotation.   As others suggest, there are many worthy venues giving the Open a greater variety in both design and topography.   Additionally, such a rotation would be limited to 8 to 10 states.   Accordingly, those wishing to attend an Open must travel to those states.  I guess I'm suggesting that the Open should be disbursed among the States.   For example, this Open was the first ever played in Wisconsin.   Had a rotation existed, Wisconsin would still be without an Open.  Perhaps, there are other States that would like to host an Open, with a rotation, they will not have the opportunity.   As I understand, hosting an Open has a positive impact on the local economy.  

[downlowkey]

For me, I am of the opinion that the USGA desperately needs to follow the R&A model for the Open Championship course rotation.

 

Can you enlighten us as to why you specifically believe the USGA so "desperately" needs to follow the R&A Open Championship rota model?

[mrsmith123]

Can you enlighten us as to why you specifically believe the USGA so "desperately" needs to follow the R&A Open Championship rota model?

Sure, my opinion stems from recent courses they've selected for the open, and I'm a big believer in saving as much tradition as possible for golf. I can understand the USGA wants to showcase great US courses all over the country, but the tradition of the tournament gets lost (again, just my opinion) when they select places like Chambers Bay and Erin Hills. Just my thoughts.

 

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[Shankster]

If they keep "showcasing" new courses, there will be a lot of 2017 repeats. By that I mean low scoring, on an unproven course.

 

Maybe alternating on years 2,4,6,8,10 with the "historic" courses and the in between fill in with something new.

 

5 Standards on a 10 year rotation. By the time they get back around to the first one a third of the guys will be playing on the Champions Tour... or dang close to it.

 

 

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[TheWahoo]

In my opinion, underscore opinion, the venues are being excessively blamed for the failures of the USGA.   Most courses can be set up to accommodate the anticipated difficulty of an Open venue-rough length, fairway width, green speed and hole placements.   The selection of a venue is made year's before it is scheduled to host an Open.   Such provides the USGA ample time to assure that the course is being maintained sufficient to an Open venue.   The USGA has no excuse for the green conditions at Chambers Bay.   In the case for this year's Open, Mother Nature failed to provide an adequate, yet anticipated, defense for the course.    Additionally, the course could have been set up to be more difficult.  

[TWar]

Whether it is USGA or the course, I miss the traditional US Open feel. Tight fairways that emphasize accuracy and greens that emphasize touch. One issue with set rotations, especially with private courses, is that the course has the shut down for member play months in advance. I worked as a bartender at Southern Hills in Tulsa and when the majors came around members were always pissed. They didn't like to be told they couldn't play golf because a tourney was coming. First world problems, I know.

 

It would be an interesting process to see how they would choose the 10 courses if it ever happened.

 

I like the idea of throwing in a new course every 3-4-5 years to showcase something new.

 

 

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[Shankster]

I'd rather have a private course shut down than a public course.... just saying

 

 

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[revkev]

I'd rather have a private course shut down than a public course.... just saying

 

 

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Unless you're a member of that club.

 

I'd have to look at the history of the U S Open. My suspicion is that different types of courses were in vogue during different eras of the game covered. For example when asked tons of guys here have said repeatedly they they prefer the faux links style course and so there you have them with Chambers Bay and Erin Hills. But these aren't the Open courses of yesterday which again I suspect weren't the courses of Day before that.

 

Erin Hills just didn't work out for whatever reason. Twenty years from now very few will remember that just as very few of us know that Hale Irwin became a U S Open winner in an absolutely joke of an Open in the late 70's. It made Chambers bay look like the local muni in terms of difficulty of set up or how about the time they had to stop play at Shinnecock in the final round to water a green because it had become unplayable. But we're happy it's back there again. Erin Hills may host another U S Open once the taste is gone from this one. A little redesign and a few tweaks and it will be fine.

 

I'm against a rotation but do like to see some of the oldie goldies sprinkled in from time to time.

 

 

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[TheWahoo]

It seems there may be an unofficial rotation for the Open.     For example:

 

Oakmont- 2016, 2007, 1994, 1983, 1973

Pebble- 2010, 2000, 1992, 1972

 

Some other venues with multiple Opens--Pinehurst#2, Olympic Club, Shinnecock Hills, Baultosol.   Bethpage Black seems to be a recent entry to the rotating venues.

[StrokerAce]

As far as boosting the local economy goes....

 

The Salem country club is hosting the senior open this year.  Pretty good article about it... https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/regionals/north/2017/06/21/legendary-time-for-golf-salem/mVkspTeygFlHRY7lBC6JrJ/story.html

 

But... what I found surprising was this statement:

"This time around, revenue projections for local businesses has ballooned to as much as $50 million. "

 

50 million!  And that's for the senior open... imagine the impact of the regular open.  

 

The USGA really should spread the wealth.  ::

[Big money]

Well said Rev 👍👍👍🤛

[Philly Golf Guy]

The reason why the USGA has strayed from the typical parkland tree lined narrow corridor deep rough just off fairway set up is because all that did was determine who could hit it the straightest and longest. Guys in the rough had to chip out and a bunch of time was wasted looking for the balls altogether.

 

IMO the USO does a great job of thoroughly testing all facets of a player's game. This year, Koepka was the only player to score under par all 4 rounds and it wasn't his driving that was the reason; it was his ball striking, touch around the green and mental fortitude on Sunday. Just like Kaymer at Pinehurst, he played the course correctly and was rewarded for it.