Why the USGA needs an Open Rotation

[StrokerAce]

The reason why the USGA has strayed from the typical parkland tree lined narrow corridor deep rough just off fairway set up is because all that did was determine who could hit it the straightest and longest. Guys in the rough had to chip out and a bunch of time was wasted looking for the balls altogether.

 

IMO the USO does a great job of thoroughly testing all facets of a player's game. This year, Koepka was the only player to score under par all 4 rounds and it wasn't his driving that was the reason; it was his ball striking, touch around the green and mental fortitude on Sunday. Just like Kaymer at Pinehurst, he played the course correctly and was rewarded for it.

 

I'd like to see a test of shotmaking.... not the guy who can grip it and rip it and put it out there farther than anyone.... or the guy who can get on in 2 because he has a 7 iron into the green.  That's why I liked Olympic.  You couldn't just *pound the sh*t outta the ball...

[downlowkey]

Sure, my opinion stems from recent courses they've selected for the open, and I'm a big believer in saving as much tradition as possible for golf. I can understand the USGA wants to showcase great US courses all over the country, but the tradition of the tournament gets lost (again, just my opinion) when they select places like Chambers Bay and Erin Hills. Just my thoughts.

As I understand it, Chambers Bay was primarily selected as a strong statement about the evolving ecological impact of the golf industry; a noteworthy subject for all golfers preferring the continued existence of the game. Specifically as it relates to municipal land that could otherwise be developed for housing and drought tolerant grasses. In my opinion, the USGA recognized the hypocrisy of demanding amateur golfers embrace ecologically sensitive facilities without also demonstrating an in kind venue was capable of hosting a world class competition.

 

Furthermore, the USGA was embracing your own opinion that every "region" of the U.S. should have the opportunity host an Open Championship. I noted that did not however bear out on your proposed Top 10 rota that included (2) PA courses plus MD & MA.

 

I will try to further qualify my query. What specifically about Chambers Bay & Erin Hills brought you to the conclusion the USGA so desperately needs to follow the R&A rota model? Is it solely focused on tradition? Par protection? Does your television screen need to be filled with lush green color? I'm really not trying to poke and prod, just genuinely trying to understand the desperation of your premise.

[Shankster]

I'd like to see a test of shotmaking.... not the guy who can grip it and rip it and put it out there farther than anyone.... or the guy who can get on in 2 because he has a 7 iron into the green. That's why I liked Olympic. You couldn't just *pound the sh*t outta the ball...

Most of them grip and rip. There are a select group of shot makers, but they all hit the ball a mile...

 

I know what you're saying 100%, and that is exactly how I am playing now. Tactfully... I like to hit different types of shots, it gets rid of the Bomb, hit a short iron, miss the green and 3 putt after getting there.

 

Now it is a though process to get me to GIR in the most efficient way. If it is 3 iron, 7 iron or driver, 5 iron, wedge... it is more fun than hitting the same clubs on every hole.

 

And I even got to use all of the clubs in the bag last time!

 

 

- Alan

[StrokerAce]

Most of them grip and rip. There are a select group of shot makers, but they all hit the ball a mile...

 

I know what you're saying 100%, and that is exactly how I am playing now. Tactfully... I like to hit different types of shots, it gets rid of the Bomb, hit a short iron, miss the green and 3 putt after getting there.

 

Now it is a though process to get me to GIR in the most efficient way. If it is 3 iron, 7 iron or driver, 5 iron, wedge... it is more fun than hitting the same clubs on every hole.

 

And I even got to use all of the clubs in the bag last time!

 

 

- Alan

 

I remember years ago when El Tigre would just "cut the corner" on a Par 4/5 and drop it 75 yards from the green on a dime.  Then they tried "Tiger-proofing"... adding bunkers at 300 yards seemed to be one of the more prominent strategies, but also "squeezing" fairways at specific distances... and then equipment changed, guys got stronger and they were flying over the "Tiger proofing".... 

 

I'd like to see some strategy come into play as you have described.  It will make the tournament more competitive by giving the shorter hitters/accuracy guys a chance.

 

I hit 6i-6i-PW on a par 5 yesterday and had a 2 putt par.  Took all of the OB risk out of play and was pleased with my strategy.

[Shankster]

I remember years ago when El Tigre would just "cut the corner" on a Par 4/5 and drop it 75 yards from the green on a dime. Then they tried "Tiger-proofing"... adding bunkers at 300 yards seemed to be one of the more prominent strategies, but also "squeezing" fairways at specific distances... and then equipment changed, guys got stronger and they were flying over the "Tiger proofing"....

 

I'd like to see some strategy come into play as you have described. It will make the tournament more competitive by giving the shorter hitters/accuracy guys a chance.

 

I hit 6i-6i-PW on a par 5 yesterday and had a 2 putt par. Took all of the OB risk out of play and was pleased with my strategy.

Just the way golf was meant to be played. I love it. As far as Tiger proofing, they ruined golf courses.

 

 

- Alan

[revkev]

This is a great discussion - Personally I don't think there is one way that golf is meant to be played. What if I have every confidence that I can hit driver as straight as you can hit 6 iron?

 

Golf is meant to be played for fun. If I'm playing competitively it's meant to be played in the manner that will net me the lowest possible score. Frankly I think it's more intriguing if there are different ways to do that rather than being forced to do it one way.

 

Beyond a doubt Chambers Bay succeeded - different types of players were in the mix. Erin Hills failed - if you weren't a bomber you were out. Save that for Phoenix - Hartford will have more strategy than we saw last week.

 

That's the truth

 

 

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[Shankster]

Indeed. I'm just saying they give a hole a "Par number" and we are always trying to meet or beat it. On in GIR and 2 putt is

 

 

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[downlowkey]

Beyond a doubt Chambers Bay succeeded - different types of players were in the mix. Erin Hills failed - if you weren't a bomber you were out.

I certainly didn't see Chambers Bay as the debacle some here are attempting to portray.

 

But I also don't think Brian Harman, Xander Schauffele, Charley Hoffman or Brandt Snedeker qualify as bombers; and they each finished inside the top 10. I did notice a number of "bombers" with their wrists taped up, as in "if I keep spraying it into this fescue, Erin Hills may yet end my entire season/career". To me that says, bomb and gouge at your own peril, because there is a high tariff to be paid. DJ, Rory, J Day, Rahmbo...all bombers, all missed the weekend. Erin Hills will be back and much nastier next time around.

 

 

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[dang3rtown]

Man, I loved Erin Hills!!! It got a run of perfect conditions to keep scores down but it was a beautiful course and I think it was a pretty good test. All they need to do is cut the rough a little narrower on the fairways and not have a bunch of rain soften up the greens. Do that and even par wins there!

 

 

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[Shankster]

I enjoyed Erin Hills too. And Chambers Bay. I am not against a -20 major. Let em swing!

 

 

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[mrsmith123]

As I understand it, Chambers Bay was primarily selected as a strong statement about the evolving ecological impact of the golf industry; a noteworthy subject for all golfers preferring the continued existence of the game. Specifically as it relates to municipal land that could otherwise be developed for housing and drought tolerant grasses. In my opinion, the USGA recognized the hypocrisy of demanding amateur golfers embrace ecologically sensitive facilities without also demonstrating an in kind venue was capable of hosting a world class competition.

 

Furthermore, the USGA was embracing your own opinion that every "region" of the U.S. should have the opportunity host an Open Championship. I noted that did not however bear out on your proposed Top 10 rota that included (2) PA courses plus MD & MA.

 

I will try to further qualify my query. What specifically about Chambers Bay & Erin Hills brought you to the conclusion the USGA so desperately needs to follow the R&A rota model? Is it solely focused on tradition? Par protection? Does your television screen need to be filled with lush green color? I'm really not trying to poke and prod, just genuinely trying to understand the desperation of your premise.

My take is one from a traditional standpoint, I've never agreed with trying new courses when the old ones symbolize American golf history. They gave Erin Hills the US Open essentially on a whim before it was even completed. I don't really care about the "color" of the grass (minus Augusta).

 

America has several different layouts but they all reflect an American style of play. One that should reward accuracy, precision, and putting. That's what I loved about courses prior to Tiger Woods, length of 6900-7100 was enough. And it still is if they shrink the fairways.

 

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[jaxbeachpackerfan]

I certainly didn't see Chambers Bay as the debacle some here are attempting to portray.

 

But I also don't think Brian Harman, Xander Schauffele, Charley Hoffman or Brandt Snedeker qualify as bombers; and they each finished inside the top 10. I did notice a number of "bombers" with their wrists taped up, as in "if I keep spraying it into this fescue, Erin Hills may yet end my entire season/career". To me that says, bomb and gouge at your own peril, because there is a high tariff to be paid. DJ, Rory, J Day, Rahmbo...all bombers, all missed the weekend. Erin Hills will be back and much nastier next time around.

 

 

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I'm with Downlowkey--my recollection of the tournament was a good mix of bombers and others.  I was most focused on Stricker 'cause of my loyalties, and he certainly was holding his own the last day even though he couldn't sink a putt.  I thought Erin Hills was a success, and most of the press I have read, and players' comments, seems to support that.  

[downlowkey]

My take is one from a traditional standpoint, I've never agreed with trying new courses when the old ones symbolize American golf history. They gave Erin Hills the US Open essentially on a whim before it was even completed. I don't really care about the "color" of the grass (minus Augusta).

 

America has several different layouts but they all reflect an American style of play. One that should reward accuracy, precision, and putting. That's what I loved about courses prior to Tiger Woods, length of 6900-7100 was enough. And it still is if they shrink the fairways.

It seems you're merely suggesting facilities that have not already hosted a major, should never host a US Open, for the sake of tradition. If that's the entirety of your logic, we are going to have to part ways on the validity of your original premise. You really think the USGA selected Erin Hills on a whim? You also have yet to share what you believe was so terrible about Chambers Bay. Did any of my points regarding the selection of that particular site make sense to you? Since you have _always_ felt this way, did the lack of a major pedigree ruin the '08 Open at Torrey Pines for you? In my opinion it was one of the best ever, but would have never happened under your proposed rota rules.

 

I have played golf competitively for 20+ years but have never heard anyone else describe U.S. course layouts as varied but distinctly American; and demanding of an American style of play. I seriously have no idea what you are talking about.

[Kor.A.Door]

Bethpage black?

 

Chambers bay was horrid no chance for the rotation.

 

Most of the others I would agree

[Kor.A.Door]

I'm with Downlowkey--my recollection of the tournament was a good mix of bombers and others. I was most focused on Stricker 'cause of my loyalties, and he certainly was holding his own the last day even though he couldn't sink a putt. I thought Erin Hills was a success, and most of the press I have read, and players' comments, seems to support that.

Chambers bay issue was the actual course, not the mix of players. That course was horrible

[stage1350]

I'd still argue that the biggest thing ruining US Open courses is the USGA itself as they continue this pathetic attempt at protecting par.  Turning off the water 2-3 months in advance so the fairways are like runways is one of the dumbest strategies out there.  Water the living s**t out of them and make the ball back up in the fairway like us mortals get.  Watch as they add 2-3 clubs to their approach shot because they just lost 50+ yards of roll.  And quit manicuring the greens to perfection.  Make them putt on spike marked greens like we do.  Then we'll see how good these guys are... 

[StrokerAce]

I'm with Downlowkey--my recollection of the tournament was a good mix of bombers and others.  I was most focused on Stricker 'cause of my loyalties, and he certainly was holding his own the last day even though he couldn't sink a putt.  I thought Erin Hills was a success, and most of the press I have read, and players' comments, seems to support that.  

 

Interesting... I read an article yesterday (?) that had a few players saying it was more like a PGA Championship than US Open....but they all seemed to enjoy the course itself.

[StrokerAce]

I'd still argue that the biggest thing ruining US Open courses is the USGA itself as they continue this pathetic attempt at protecting par.  Turning off the water 2-3 months in advance so the fairways are like runways is one of the dumbest strategies out there.  Water the living s**t out of them and make the ball back up in the fairway like us mortals get.  Watch as they add 2-3 clubs to their approach shot because they just lost 50+ yards of roll.  And quit manicuring the greens to perfection.  Make them putt on spike marked greens like we do.  Then we'll see how good these guys are... 

 

HAHAA!  Good point... they ought to let a bunch of amateurs play a tourney there Mo/Tu and then turn it over to the pros the rest of the week... see how well they do then!!

[mrsmith123]

It seems you're merely suggesting facilities that have not already hosted a major, should never host a US Open, for the sake of tradition. If that's the entirety of your logic, we are going to have to part ways on the validity of your original premise. You really think the USGA selected Erin Hills on a whim? You also have yet to share what you believe was so terrible about Chambers Bay. Did any of my points regarding the selection of that particular site make sense to you? Since you have _always_ felt this way, did the lack of a major pedigree ruin the '08 Open at Torrey Pines for you? In my opinion it was one of the best ever, but would have never happened under your proposed rota rules.

 

I have played golf competitively for 20+ years but have never heard anyone else describe U.S. course layouts as varied but distinctly American; and demanding of an American style of play. I seriously have no idea what you are talking about.

I'm sorry I can't explain my position better. Do I disagree with Torrey Pines? Not necessarily, because it is a traditional American style of course, held up for scoring, and it is a difficult course under regular tour conditions which had hosted several years of tour events.

 

Chamber Bay has too much of a British links look in my opinion and not enough history. They would have been better off with Pumpkin Ridge.

 

Again I'm sorry I can't say it better, I know what I want to get at and when I figure it out I'll post it in here. Now on to my research. I want to provide data to back it up, I think that's only fair on my part.

 

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[jaxbeachpackerfan]

Chambers bay issue was the actual course, not the mix of players. That course was horrible

My bad, I was speaking to the recently concluded Erin Hills tournament, not the Chambers Bay.  That indeed was a very unfortunate experience.  

[revkev]

I appreciate everybody's take and opinion. Burkmi will appreciate that I came into this discussion against a US Open rotation and I'm now in favor of it because personally I don't like US Opens with winners at -20 or -16 or even -10 unless one guy runs away and hides.

 

I also don't like it to be about the course. We've heard lots about Chambers Bay and Erin Hills. If we had a rotation of courses that we know work just use those and be done with it. Pick 9 and add a new one in the tenth year after it's had a sufficient trial period. The nine courses should include Bethpage and Torrey Pines both of which have proven themselves.

 

Mental thoughness and the ability to handle a little on course adversity was not sufficiently tested this year IMO.

 

Touring pros are not used to being asked to find a way to par in from 12 to win. It's a different mind set from what they normally face. There needs to be one tournament a season that asks that question. The Masters asks if you can make some birdies on the back nine at the right time. I love seeing that then.

 

 

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[Shankster]

I enjoy the British Open Rotation. Plus, those guys seem to have more fun over there. It's too commercial here. Might be there too, but from what I see on the highlights it's more relaxed on the European Tour.

 

I just wish we were in the same time zone as them. I would watch every European event. You don't see so much club throwing and throwing fits. But again, I only watch the highlights.

 

 

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[mrsmith123]

I understand the USGA wants to display great courses for the world to see. But the US Open's tradition is built around being very challenging. It looks horrible when a new course which is not proven leads to a score deep under par for this event.

 

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