How much will you pay for performance?

[chisag]

... Interesting side topic with StrokerAce in another thread about the new M2 and Epic drivers. jlukes has a new M2 he loves and I have a new Epic that I love. I only have a few rounds with my Epic but it is a good 10 yards longer with a few even longer than that. I have been using a Fly Z for 3 years now that is consistently long, crazy forgiving with slight toe mishits almost as long and straight as center hits. But it spun more than ideal and I left yards on the table. Enter the Epic that does everything the Fly Z did but has much better spin and gives me a more shallow angle of descent and provides plenty of roll. I May also be carrying it a little farther, time will tell. And best of all it sounds and feels almost like an old persimmon driver and I made the change. 

... So the question is: would you pay up to $499 for a driver that provides a 10 or more yard gain but is just as straight and forgiving as your old driver? StrokerAce says most will not and I agreed most golfers would not but most equipment forum golfers would. It is kinda why we are here reading about equipment every day. Of course it is just an educated guess on both our parts so would you pay for performance or happy enough if you are finding the fairway albiet little shorter with your current driver? Not just a chance at performance but demoing and/or being fit and knowing you are getting better performance? 

[cnosil]

Depends on what I am after.  Right now I am happy with the clubs in my bag and feel like I get good performance from those clubs.   If I was in the market for new clubs,  I would trade in some old clubs to try and get the cost down or purchase last years model.   At this point I don't play competitive golf so the 10 yards really isn't that important to me.   Golf Forum readers aren't always the type that need to have the latest equipment;  I am just passionate about the game and like to see what other people are talking about.  

[yungkory]

I guess it depends what I was gaming prior. I am also gaming an Epic, but I came from a GBB 454 from like 2006, so the investment was a little different. I don't know if something came out that was 10 yards longer than my Epic would even be legal.

 

Would I drop another $500 on a marginal difference? No, not unless I was guaranteed to make some money back on my Epic.

 

I just hit some PXGs today, can't say I was all that impressed for a 7-iron that is like $300. The JPX 900 I was hitting 5 minutes prior felt WAY better, and the Miura I hit as well. That's saying a lot because I have what some people would refer to as "expensive taste" aka I'm a brand ho.

[revkev]

I would beyond a doubt. I'm highly skeptical that 10 more yards exist for me with driver over what I have but if it did I would bite. 10 yards is not marginal it's worth at least half a stroke per 18. That's a ten percent improvement based upon my current handicap index.

 

 

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[TBT]

This is a discussion that I have had several times....WE are not typical golfers...WE are very avid golfers.

 

The typical golfer probably won't shell out $500 for that 10 yards if all other things are the same( but who knows, my club Pro says they have sold 3 times the number of Epic drivers and FW's than he usually sells in a full year!)

 

The golf forum golfer on the other hand is always tinkering, trying to find just the right combination to get him/her to the next level.

[chisag]

... "up to $499" so of course trade ins count as well as finding a bargain or even used on the new $499 driver. I am just curious as I thought just like TBT that most forum gofers are passionate about their game as well as their equipment and money is somewhat inconsequential IF the performance is there. I am not talking PXG or Titleist Prototype cash, just a reasonable amount for a new club. I play to a 0.1 right now and want to get back to a + index and 10 more yards is certainly a step in that direction. I am thinking an 11 wants to get to a single digit index and someone shooting in the 90's wants to score in the 80's, etc, etc. 

[cnosil]

... "up to $499" so of course trade ins count as well as finding a bargain or even used on the new $499 driver. I am just curious as I thought just like TBT that most forum gofers are passionate about their game as well as their equipment and money is somewhat inconsequential IF the performance is there. I am not talking PXG or Titleist Prototype cash, just a reasonable amount for a new club. I play to a 0.1 right now and want to get back to a + index and 10 more yards is certainly a step in that direction. I am thinking an 11 wants to get to a single digit index and someone shooting in the 90's wants to score in the 80's, etc, etc. 

 

I am playing around a 6 and really want to get to scratch and break the 70 scoring barrier.  After doing an assessment of my game,  I know my issues is short game when I miss greens and I need to work on getting up and down from anywhere.   Of course hitting more greens would be just as successful which could occur if I was hitting less club into greens.  

[Shankster]

My plan is to go to a fitter early next year. Get spec'd out and buy a used club. Spending $500 on a stick... I can't do it, even if it was 20 yards. I will wait till I can find a mint used one at half the price.

 

 

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[Golfspy_CG2]

Well considering I have paid that amount before in HOPE for any more yardage. In pretty sure for a guaranteed 10 more yards, if give you may CC right now. 😎

 

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[robertson153]

Since my whole setup didn't cost $500 I would say no.

Cobra fly z driver $140

Adams 3 wood $15

Taylormade 3 hybrid free (from buddy)

Nike VRS forged 4-G $175

Taylormade S and L wedge free (traded old driver)

Odyssey versa putter $50

Bag free (uncle)

 

 

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[GolfJunkie302]

I did just buy the M1 because my other driver was 7 years old and there was a fracture in it. Gained about 20 yards. If it had been 2 or 3 years old and in good shape, probably not. But yeah, 10 yards would be tempting, if I needed an upgrade!

 

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[silver & black]

I am playing around a 6 and really want to get to scratch and break the 70 scoring barrier.  After doing an assessment of my game,  I know my issues is short game when I miss greens and I need to work on getting up and down from anywhere.   Of course hitting more greens would be just as successful which could occur if I was hitting less club into greens.  

This where my game is. My short game is not where it needs to be. I would love to have more distance.... like Rev said, it is definitely a factor and shouldn't be discounted.... even if it's "only" 10 yards more.

 

Right now that 10 yards won't improve my game by any significant margin, but a better short game would would make quite a big difference. That said.... I like new and shiny too! I just can't see myself spending a lot of money with little to no return, other than the warm and fuzzies over a new driver...lol.

[Shankster]

I am going to add another note: someone goes and buys the latest and greatest for $500, in 10-20 months time it is replaced by the newest latest and greatest.

 

Why?

 

Marketing at its finest.

 

The shaved face blog post I would pay for, but it is "non conforming"...

 

 

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[revkev]

... "up to $499" so of course trade ins count as well as finding a bargain or even used on the new $499 driver. I am just curious as I thought just like TBT that most forum gofers are passionate about their game as well as their equipment and money is somewhat inconsequential IF the performance is there. I am not talking PXG or Titleist Prototype cash, just a reasonable amount for a new club. I play to a 0.1 right now and want to get back to a + index and 10 more yards is certainly a step in that direction. I am thinking an 11 wants to get to a single digit index and someone shooting in the 90's wants to score in the 80's, etc, etc.

Exactly!!!! How much would it be worth to cross a scoring threshold a stay there. 10 usable yards is a quick way there. IMO

 

 

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[chisag]

I am going to add another note: someone goes and buys the latest and greatest for $500, in 10-20 months time it is replaced by the newest latest and greatest.

 

Why?

 

Marketing at its finest.

 

... While I think perhaps a few enjoy trying the newest latest and greatest because of marketing, I think the majority of us wait for something better or at least different. I think it is much more rare for someone to buy the M2 and then buy the 2017 M2 because of marketing. But someone that played the RBZ, SLDR, R15 is a candidate for purchasing the 2017 M2. And again there may be a few chasing performance thinking the newest is going to be considerably longer and straighter than their current driver from the previous year, but most change because they like the look, feel, custom stock shaft options or a myriad of reasons other than longer and straighter. 

 

... I have not hit a new driver in many years thinking it will be longer and straighter. Don't get me wrong, I am always open to an increase in performance and I have gotten just that a few times but more often than not it is a new look or feel that causes me to change and certainly not marketing. The SLDR was the first driver in quite a few years to give me an immediate increase in performance. It is looking like the Epic may be the second but it is too early to make that call. 

[revkev]

I would say let's keep the focus here - Chisag didn't write drop 5 bills on something that promises 10 more yards.  He asked about something that does deliver 10 more usable yards.

 

I would hope that all of us who are active here are wise enough to test and try stuff out prior to dropping $500.  We know there are false promises out there or at least fine print ones.  We would want to find out of that fine print applies to us first.

 

I believe this thread is talking about the real McCoy.  So perhaps it could apply to a new shaft for the driver that delivers the added distance.  Maybe it's not the Epic for you but some other new technology that matches up with your swing.  I got a nice pop out of the SLDR because it fit my launch profile - the problem was that my swing went in the tank and then it became extremely unforgiving.  If my swing continues to tighten up I may haul the thing out to see how it does.

[Shankster]

I tried the SLDR and the R-15 against my R1 with as close to the same shaft as I could get at Golf Galaxy. Didn't see a $500 increase in yardage, in fact none at all.

 

Not saying there isn't THE ONE out there waiting for me to pick up and say man, that is some major distance over my gamer.

 

I really do like the F7+ and the G. They were solid, but not $500 solid... oh they aren't, they are actually reasonably priced. At $299 and $350 respectively. Heck even the Wilson D300 driver performs as well as the "Big Brands"...

 

If the gains are real and you have the dough, go for it. I just don't like marketing gimmicks.

 

 

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[Canucklehead]

$500 for 10 more yards? Heck no! $500 for 10 more yards and 4 or 5 more fairways per round? You have my attention...

 

Though that can sometimes be fixed with a properly fit shaft and some lessons

 

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[tony@CIC]

My instructor who also sells clubs suggested I put the 500 towards lessons

 

 

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[jaskanski]

Cost = performance is probably the greatest myth in golf. The problem is, people will naturally associate cost in equipment to a relative point in performance, or in other words, the more it costs the better it is.

I call BS.

If I could offer only one piece of advice for an increase in performance, then I would say spend half as much on your equipment and twice as much on lessons and practice.

The only real performance comes from the golfer who has the energy and ability to transfer that into greater distance, accuracy or finesse. The equipment, which is usually an inert piece material until it is swung has the least influence on the outcome of any shot your will ever make - period.

So if you want performance, you the golfer has to provide that. You are the source of energy. You dictate the direction, trajectory and spin. The equipment is merely a means to an end.

Does some equipment have inherent qualities more suitable to some than others? Sure, but where does cost come into that equation? 

Does fitting help in matching an individual swing to a piece of equipment to enhance performance? Sure, but it needn't be an expensive solution. 

Knowledge in the form of lessons or in the form of educating yourself about the physics of the golf swing is the single best investment you will ever make in golf. The beauty is, the knowledge you gain will translate and be relative to any piece of equipment you will ever own in the future. Not bad eh? Especially when you consider the money you could waste on a $500 driver because you think there is a "performance" advantage.

[chisag]

... Again, I don't think anyone is advocating spending $500 when they "think there is a performance advantage". I was theoretically talking about an actual performance advantage, as in hitting it 10+ yds farther and just as straight or straighter than your old driver. I also don't think anyone is being presented with a game of Lessons OR New Equipment Russian Roulette. If needed and as someone that taught for 5 years, I think lessons always trumps equipment. 

... But the impetus of this discussion came from jlukes loving his new M2 and I am ecstatic with my Epic as I honestly thought my driver distance was maxed out. At age 64 finding another 10 plus yards has been a real boon to my game. In full transparency I paid $329 for my Epic but already had a Rogue Black Tour 110 shaft that fits me perfectly. So another $19 for an adaptor and I have 3 rounds with it and could not be happier shooting under par all 3 rounds. I admit I may have been reluctant to spend $500 though if deals were not available. But if I demoed one on the course and had the results I have been getting, it would be a no brainer for me to spend $500, even basically for a head since I already have a shaft that fits me. All responses are interesting and appreciated. 

... Here is a picture of my Epic with some Painters pen white paint over the Epic green accents that would cost $550 from Cally's custom department with a 6-8 week wait. It looks a little amateurish up close but at address it looks great and goes well with my RB shaft:



 

[BlackAndGold]

10 more yards and just as accurate?   If it's a look/sound I can live with, sign me up! 

 

Wait, one more thing - it must be guaranteed that my wife will not find out ;-)

[BlackAndGold]

... Here is a picture of my Epic with some Painters pen white paint over the Epic green accents that would cost $550 from Cally's custom department with a 6-8 week wait. It looks a little amateurish up close but at address it looks great and goes well with my RB shaft:

 

 

 

 

I like that look much more.   When it comes to golf gear, I'm just not big on either bright green or orange.

[Philly Golf Guy]

If the driver only gives me 10 extra yards and no other improvement, I'm not spending 500. If I can trade some stuff in, then possibly.

 

If I saw a much more comprehensive uptick in performance, more FIR's, longer, better feel, looked cooler (like my new M2), then probably yes.

[Zylem]

For 10 more yards on my driver and assuming I would keep my accuracy than yes I would pay for that. That means I am hitting a shorter iron into the green. Anything less than 10 yards then no. It would only be worth it if I am hitting a 9 iron instead of an 8 or something like that.

 

Other clubs are more difficult for me to quantify an upgrade. Especially my 3 wood. I hit my current 3 as good as I hit the newer clubs so I have yet to swap it out.

 

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[GeekingGolf]

I wouldn't pay

 

 

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[Mr.keyman1808]

... Interesting side topic with StrokerAce in another thread about the new M2 and Epic drivers. jlukes has a new M2 he loves and I have a new Epic that I love. I only have a few rounds with my Epic but it is a good 10 yards longer with a few even longer than that. I have been using a Fly Z for 3 years now that is consistently long, crazy forgiving with slight toe mishits almost as long and straight as center hits. But it spun more than ideal and I left yards on the table. Enter the Epic that does everything the Fly Z did but has much better spin and gives me a more shallow angle of descent and provides plenty of roll. I May also be carrying it a little farther, time will tell. And best of all it sounds and feels almost like an old persimmon driver and I made the change.

 

... So the question is: would you pay up to $499 for a driver that provides a 10 or more yard gain but is just as straight and forgiving as your old driver? StrokerAce says most will not and I agreed most golfers would not but most equipment forum golfers would. It is kinda why we are here reading about equipment every day. Of course it is just an educated guess on both our parts so would you pay for performance or happy enough if you are finding the fairway albiet little shorter with your current driver? Not just a chance at performance but demoing and/or being fit and knowing you are getting better performance?

No I won't pay full retail for only a 10 yard difference. I always buy a year or two behind and I don't change clubs for 4-5 years at a time.

 

 

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[PlaidJacket]

This is a great topic Chisag started...

 

Yes. I suppose I would pay $500 if I was guaranteed another 10y off the tee. Let's call it... $50 per yard. Sign me up. This also assumes I will keep producing my same shot shape and accuracy. I wouldn't pay $500 if I lost accuracy. Who would? Currently I'm playing a 2014 SLDR and it's been the longest and most accurate driver I've ever owned. I'm usually the shortest in driver distance in my group of players too. But... I'm also the most accurate most days. I'd also pay $10,000 if by only changing irons my approach shots were all within a 10' circle around the pin. Hell, I'd turn Pro!

 

I like the Epic. Looks and sound. I've commented in other posts that I might consider one next year. That way I can get cost per yard down to perhaps $30. Sounds like a win-win.

[chisag]

... Seems like a tie between those that are willing to pay for 10 yards or more with equal or better accuracy and those that are willing to pay, but at a discount the following season after a price drop. I have done both but with recent technology advances on a yearly basis I just feel like by the time I wait a year and am ready to buy last years model at a discount, a new model arrives that may be a little better.

 

... As stated earlier, usually new models are just a better look, sound or feel without a performance boost for me, so waiting for a price drop made sense. But the Epic was the first in quite awhile to give me additional yards so I pulled the trigger. Unlike almost all new drivers I have tried every season, when hit dead center the Epic is producing more than 10 extra yards, so for me it was a no-brainer. 

[stage1350]

At $500, which has been the retail benchmark going back to the GBB and 975D, yes.  But the recent $800+ drivers?  No.  

 

It's too easy nowadays to shop last years models at $300 and get 99% of the performance benefits.  Plus, you have a year to examine what is getting turned over in the used market.  

 

I try not to buy into the hype, though I must admit spending an awful lot in 2016 on the M1 only to find minimal performance advantages over the SLDR 430 it was replacing.  I haven't played enough with the Epic Sub Zero to quantify it yet, but it definitely feels and seems to be better shot for shot compared to the M1.