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How much will you pay for performance?


chisag
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... Again, I don't think anyone is advocating spending $500 when they "think there is a performance advantage". I was theoretically talking about an actual performance advantage, as in hitting it 10+ yds farther and just as straight or straighter than your old driver. I also don't think anyone is being presented with a game of Lessons OR New Equipment Russian Roulette. If needed and as someone that taught for 5 years, I think lessons always trumps equipment. 

... But the impetus of this discussion came from jlukes loving his new M2 and I am ecstatic with my Epic as I honestly thought my driver distance was maxed out. At age 64 finding another 10 plus yards has been a real boon to my game. In full transparency I paid $329 for my Epic but already had a Rogue Black Tour 110 shaft that fits me perfectly. So another $19 for an adaptor and I have 3 rounds with it and could not be happier shooting under par all 3 rounds. I admit I may have been reluctant to spend $500 though if deals were not available. But if I demoed one on the course and had the results I have been getting, it would be a no brainer for me to spend $500, even basically for a head since I already have a shaft that fits me. All responses are interesting and appreciated. 

... Here is a picture of my Epic with some Painters pen white paint over the Epic green accents that would cost $550 from Cally's custom department with a 6-8 week wait. It looks a little amateurish up close but at address it looks great and goes well with my RB shaft:

Epic in white.jpg

 

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Driver:   TaylorMade SIM2 Max 10.5* ... Diamana Ltd 60R
Fairway:  TaylorMade SIM2 Max 15* ... Tensei Raw Blue 65R
                 TaylorMade SIM2 Max 18* ... Tensei Raw Blue 65R
Utility:   TaylorMade DHy 19* ... Diamana Ltd 65R
              Taylor Made Sim Hybrid 22* ... Diamana Ltd 75R
Irons:    4-Pw Cobra King Tour MIM ... Steelfiber 95R
Wedges:  Cobra Snakebite 50* ... Steelfiber 95R
                 TaylorMade MG3 58* LB ... Steelfiber 95R
Putter:  Cleveland Hunting Beach Soft 11S 33.5"
Ball:      TaylorMade TP5x (2021)

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... Here is a picture of my Epic with some Painters pen white paint over the Epic green accents that would cost $550 from Cally's custom department with a 6-8 week wait. It looks a little amateurish up close but at address it looks great and goes well with my RB shaft:

 

 

 

 

I like that look much more.   When it comes to golf gear, I'm just not big on either bright green or orange.

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If the driver only gives me 10 extra yards and no other improvement, I'm not spending 500. If I can trade some stuff in, then possibly.

 

If I saw a much more comprehensive uptick in performance, more FIR's, longer, better feel, looked cooler (like my new M2), then probably yes.

WIT  :titelist-small: Sta Dry Bag:

 

Driver:       :taylormade-small: '17 M2

 

Woods:     :taylormade-small: M2 3W and 5W

 

Hybrids:   :callaway-logo-1: Apex 3h and 5h  

Irons:          :mizuno-small:   MP 18 MMC

 

Wedges:   :callaway-logo-1: MD PM Grind, 56* and 60*

Putter:      :scotty-cameron-1: California Sonoma

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For 10 more yards on my driver and assuming I would keep my accuracy than yes I would pay for that. That means I am hitting a shorter iron into the green. Anything less than 10 yards then no. It would only be worth it if I am hitting a 9 iron instead of an 8 or something like that.

 

Other clubs are more difficult for me to quantify an upgrade. Especially my 3 wood. I hit my current 3 as good as I hit the newer clubs so I have yet to swap it out.

 

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I wouldn't pay

 

 

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... Interesting side topic with StrokerAce in another thread about the new M2 and Epic drivers. jlukes has a new M2 he loves and I have a new Epic that I love. I only have a few rounds with my Epic but it is a good 10 yards longer with a few even longer than that. I have been using a Fly Z for 3 years now that is consistently long, crazy forgiving with slight toe mishits almost as long and straight as center hits. But it spun more than ideal and I left yards on the table. Enter the Epic that does everything the Fly Z did but has much better spin and gives me a more shallow angle of descent and provides plenty of roll. I May also be carrying it a little farther, time will tell. And best of all it sounds and feels almost like an old persimmon driver and I made the change.

 

... So the question is: would you pay up to $499 for a driver that provides a 10 or more yard gain but is just as straight and forgiving as your old driver? StrokerAce says most will not and I agreed most golfers would not but most equipment forum golfers would. It is kinda why we are here reading about equipment every day. Of course it is just an educated guess on both our parts so would you pay for performance or happy enough if you are finding the fairway albiet little shorter with your current driver? Not just a chance at performance but demoing and/or being fit and knowing you are getting better performance?

No I won't pay full retail for only a 10 yard difference. I always buy a year or two behind and I don't change clubs for 4-5 years at a time.

 

 

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This is a great topic Chisag started...

 

Yes. I suppose I would pay $500 if I was guaranteed another 10y off the tee. Let's call it... $50 per yard. Sign me up. This also assumes I will keep producing my same shot shape and accuracy. I wouldn't pay $500 if I lost accuracy. Who would? Currently I'm playing a 2014 SLDR and it's been the longest and most accurate driver I've ever owned. I'm usually the shortest in driver distance in my group of players too. But... I'm also the most accurate most days. I'd also pay $10,000 if by only changing irons my approach shots were all within a 10' circle around the pin. Hell, I'd turn Pro!

 

I like the Epic. Looks and sound. I've commented in other posts that I might consider one next year. That way I can get cost per yard down to perhaps $30. Sounds like a win-win.

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My Sun Mountain bag currently includes:   TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 771CSI 5i - PW and TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png PFC Micro Tour-c 52°, 56°, 60 wedges

                                                                               :755178188_TourEdge: EXS 10.5*, TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 929-HS FW4 16.5* 

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... Seems like a tie between those that are willing to pay for 10 yards or more with equal or better accuracy and those that are willing to pay, but at a discount the following season after a price drop. I have done both but with recent technology advances on a yearly basis I just feel like by the time I wait a year and am ready to buy last years model at a discount, a new model arrives that may be a little better.

 

... As stated earlier, usually new models are just a better look, sound or feel without a performance boost for me, so waiting for a price drop made sense. But the Epic was the first in quite awhile to give me additional yards so I pulled the trigger. Unlike almost all new drivers I have tried every season, when hit dead center the Epic is producing more than 10 extra yards, so for me it was a no-brainer. 

Driver:   TaylorMade SIM2 Max 10.5* ... Diamana Ltd 60R
Fairway:  TaylorMade SIM2 Max 15* ... Tensei Raw Blue 65R
                 TaylorMade SIM2 Max 18* ... Tensei Raw Blue 65R
Utility:   TaylorMade DHy 19* ... Diamana Ltd 65R
              Taylor Made Sim Hybrid 22* ... Diamana Ltd 75R
Irons:    4-Pw Cobra King Tour MIM ... Steelfiber 95R
Wedges:  Cobra Snakebite 50* ... Steelfiber 95R
                 TaylorMade MG3 58* LB ... Steelfiber 95R
Putter:  Cleveland Hunting Beach Soft 11S 33.5"
Ball:      TaylorMade TP5x (2021)

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At $500, which has been the retail benchmark going back to the GBB and 975D, yes.  But the recent $800+ drivers?  No.  

 

It's too easy nowadays to shop last years models at $300 and get 99% of the performance benefits.  Plus, you have a year to examine what is getting turned over in the used market.  

 

I try not to buy into the hype, though I must admit spending an awful lot in 2016 on the M1 only to find minimal performance advantages over the SLDR 430 it was replacing.  I haven't played enough with the Epic Sub Zero to quantify it yet, but it definitely feels and seems to be better shot for shot compared to the M1.  

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Tour Issue Callaway GBB Epic Sub Zero 9° / Graphite Design P9003 TX  OR  Tour Issue Taylormade M1 430 9.5° / Graphite Design P9003 TX                        

Tour Issue Callaway XHot 3 Deep 13° / Graphite Design DI-10 TX                    Tour Issue Callaway XHot 3 Deep 13° / Project X T1100 95g 6.5

Tour Issue Titleist 915Hd 17.5° / Graphite Design DI-105 X                                Tour Issue Callaway BB Alpha 815 18° / Graphite Design DI-105 X

Scratch AR-1 v2 3-PW / Tour Issue Dynamic Gold X7                                        Raw Bridgestone J15CB 3-PW / Tour Issue Dynamic Gold X7

Scratch FIT 54°DS and 60°DS / Tour Issue Dynamic Gold X7                            Bettinardi H2 Forged 54° and 60° / Tour Issue Dynamic Gold X7        

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I'm amazed that despite statistical evidence that accuracy off the tee in the form of fairways hit is over rated and trivial so many are clinging to it. Accuracy in the form of penalty avoidance matters but not fairways hit. I'd gladly trade a fairway a round for 10 yards because the 10 yards will translate into half a stroke over time. That's tangible.

 

I doubt I would find those ten yards through equipment change but the question was if I could, would I.

 

Yes

 

In fact I already pay for performance in the form of lessons and I had a fitting last year. That was $300 right there.

 

 

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Taylor Made Sim2  10.5 (Opened 1 click) Ventus Blue 5  R flex

Ping G410 5-9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Wilson D7 forged 6-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

Edison Wedges 54 and 59 KBS Tour Graphite 80's

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

Tour Exotics 3 wood is in the bag because we are allowed 14 clubs.  It's a great club for pulling balls out of the water or from bushes - you never want to put your hand into anything in Florida unless you are absolutely certain that it's safe.  There are rare wind conditions when I might hit it off the tee on a few holes that I play.  

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Where I am right now I'd have to say no for me. I don't know that 10 yards a drive would make enough difference for me personally to do $499 but I'm also not in the market right now and that could be a big part of it. That and $499 could have a lot of other uses for me right now [emoji23].

 

I'll put a twist on it though with a scenario. Say I had store credit or a gift card then I might give it honest consideration.

 

 

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Right Handed

4.5 handicap

Driver: Nike Vapor Flex with Mitsubishi Rayon Fubuki ZT60x5ct S-flex shaft and stock grip.

3-Metal: Nike VRS 15 degree with Mitsubishi Rayon tour issue Diamana S73x5ct X-flex shaft and GolfPride MCC midsize Black/White grip.

Irons: Ben Hogan PTx 22, 26, 30, 34, 38, 42, 46 degrees standard length and lie with KBS Tour-V stiff shafts and GolfPride MCC midsize Black/White grips.

Wedges: Ben Hogan TK15 54, 58 degrees with KBS Tour-V X-flex shafts and GolfPride MCC midsize Black/White grips.

Putter: Nike Method Converge B1|01 with Superstroke Flatso 2.0 grip.

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I'm amazed that despite statistical evidence that accuracy off the tee in the form of fairways hit is over rated and trivial so many are clinging to it. Accuracy in the form of penalty avoidance matters but not fairways hit. I'd gladly trade a fairway a round for 10 yards because the 10 yards will translate into half a stroke over time. That's tangible.

 

I doubt I would find those ten yards through equipment change but the question was if I could, would I.

 

Yes

 

In fact I already pay for performance in the form of lessons and I had a fitting last year. That was $300 right there.

 

 

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"penalty avoidance" EXACTLY! I like that and totally agree! Stats like strokes gained are much more effective than fairways hit.

 

 

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Right Handed

4.5 handicap

Driver: Nike Vapor Flex with Mitsubishi Rayon Fubuki ZT60x5ct S-flex shaft and stock grip.

3-Metal: Nike VRS 15 degree with Mitsubishi Rayon tour issue Diamana S73x5ct X-flex shaft and GolfPride MCC midsize Black/White grip.

Irons: Ben Hogan PTx 22, 26, 30, 34, 38, 42, 46 degrees standard length and lie with KBS Tour-V stiff shafts and GolfPride MCC midsize Black/White grips.

Wedges: Ben Hogan TK15 54, 58 degrees with KBS Tour-V X-flex shafts and GolfPride MCC midsize Black/White grips.

Putter: Nike Method Converge B1|01 with Superstroke Flatso 2.0 grip.

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I'm amazed that despite statistical evidence that accuracy off the tee in the form of fairways hit is over rated and trivial so many are clinging to it. Accuracy in the form of penalty avoidance matters but not fairways hit. I'd gladly trade a fairway a round for 10 yards because the 10 yards will translate into half a stroke over time. That's tangible.

 

I doubt I would find those ten yards through equipment change but the question was if I could, would I.

 

Yes

 

... Yup, I think distance with forgiveness is more important than complete accuracy. I agree you need accuracy from the tee as long as it is reasonable accuracy. But I am hitting my Epic 10+ yds farther and combined with the 5TPx adding some ore yards I have been finding the first cut or just into the light rough quite a bit. 10-15 yds shorter and I am just in the fairway but I will take the additional yards thank you. And it isn't like I am wild as I still find the fairway, just longer and finding the edges of the fairway more often. I had 2 birdies yesterday from the light rough because I hit the ball far enough off the tee to reach a par 5 in two where the lack of spin helped and on a 440yd par 4 I only had 155 in to a back pin so I was able to land it in the front/middle and have it run a little to the pin. With my old set up it has always been a 170-200 shot depending on the wind. Yesterday was a rare no wind day. 

 

... I missed 5 fairways yesterday, but used a DI on two I hit so I missed almost half the fairways with my driver and none of those drives hurt me as I hit the green on 4 of them and as stated birdied two of the 4. My only bogie came from the center of the fairway where I jut hit a bad iron shot and ended up on the edge of a bunker with a sandy lie. 

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Driver:   TaylorMade SIM2 Max 10.5* ... Diamana Ltd 60R
Fairway:  TaylorMade SIM2 Max 15* ... Tensei Raw Blue 65R
                 TaylorMade SIM2 Max 18* ... Tensei Raw Blue 65R
Utility:   TaylorMade DHy 19* ... Diamana Ltd 65R
              Taylor Made Sim Hybrid 22* ... Diamana Ltd 75R
Irons:    4-Pw Cobra King Tour MIM ... Steelfiber 95R
Wedges:  Cobra Snakebite 50* ... Steelfiber 95R
                 TaylorMade MG3 58* LB ... Steelfiber 95R
Putter:  Cleveland Hunting Beach Soft 11S 33.5"
Ball:      TaylorMade TP5x (2021)

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  • 4 weeks later...

Since my whole setup didn't cost $500 I would say no.

Cobra fly z driver $140

Adams 3 wood $15

Taylormade 3 hybrid free (from buddy)

Nike VRS forged 4-G $175

Taylormade S and L wedge free (traded old driver)

Odyssey versa putter $50

Bag free (uncle)

 

 

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Well I'm eating my own words here. I ended up purchasing an Epic Sub Zero last night. Although it was used on eBay and almost half of what new cost. Gotta love eBay. If you're patient enough you can find deals.

 

 

Blake

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Heck, I'd pay a grand for a driver that flys straight. Would even give up ten yards for it.

 

 

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In the Bag for 2021

:callaway-small: Epic Max LS 10.5* MMT 60x

:callaway-small: Epic Speed 15* MMT 70x

:callaway-small: Apex UW 17* HZRDUS Smoke Black RDX 80 6.5

:callaway-small: X Forged UT 24* MMT 105TX

:callaway-small: Apex Pro 5 - AW Steelfiber 115x

:callaway-small: PM Grind 2.0 54* $ 58* KBS $ Taper 120 Black

:ping-small: B90

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Heck, I'd pay a grand for a driver that flys straight. Would even give up ten yards for it.

 

 

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Have you tried cutting it down an inch? I believe most drivers are 45.5 inches so u could bring it down to 44.5. just use some lead tape to bring the swing weight but up to where it was before the adjustment.

 

I did this at the start of the season and and it really helped tighten up my shot pattern. I lost about 5-8 yards carry distance.

 

Now this won't fix hooks and slices, but it makes your misses a little more barrable. For me, I would just be in the rough instead of under a tree.

 

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