revkev Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 I've been hard on putting here lately. So I wanted to set the record straight. It does matter it's just that modern metrics have shown that it's not as all important as some have made it seem in the past. The two important facets of putting are consistently holing short putts and three putt avoidance (generally speed). So while I will continue to point out that ball striking is more important than putting I'm acknowledging that putting is important. Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60 Aldila R flex - 42.25 inches SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft Ping G410 7, 9 wood Alta 65 R flex Srixon ZX5 MK II 5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex India 52,56 (60 pending) UST recoil 75's R flex Evon roll ER 5 32 inches It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty1885 Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 True. Ball striking and getting them close from the fairway sure would statistically lower the scores more than putting counts. I personally experienced the benefit last week while going for 2 of the greens and made it. Made birdies on my counts. I kid you not I asked myself what would rev do. Then we are back to our original argument, and aged old argument short game vs long game. Sure ball striking can be very beneficial but it can take average golfers off a long time to master while their score are in the swamps. Short game improvement approach offers much shorter solution and simple path to lower scores and it transfer to better long game as well. You just can't become a better player from avg golfer without a good short game but there are plenty of low handicappers who can get away with so-so long game. That's the metric I think. Short games separate too player from average ones, long game separate better player from good ones. Strong course management and mental game with both separate the best from the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revkev Posted July 22, 2017 Author Share Posted July 22, 2017 I'm so there on the course management. By being good at that I can work around my weaknesses. Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60 Aldila R flex - 42.25 inches SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft Ping G410 7, 9 wood Alta 65 R flex Srixon ZX5 MK II 5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex India 52,56 (60 pending) UST recoil 75's R flex Evon roll ER 5 32 inches It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty1885 Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 I'm so there on the course management. By being good at that I can work around my weaknesses. Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy You and me both pal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brjpool Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 I'm so there on the course management. By being good at that I can work around my weaknesses. Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy Course management is absolutely a skill I think alot of golfers do not think about and are weak on. Playing to your strengths will definitely help lower scores. Ping G20 driver through wedges Bombtech blade putter Bryan Pool Ping G20 Driver Bombtech hybrids Ping G20 green dot irons/wedges Cleveland Huntington beach 6 putter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfSpy_APH Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 I love that you mentioned course management. This is my first year being a member at a course and I've learned how to manage not only certain holes but my game as a whole. I am much smarter with my clubs off the tee to get myself to a yardage I like into the green. Whereas before I was pretty typical driver off anything I could. It's definitely helped as I've gone from a 16-11 handicap. Side note I know putting is important and a huge asset to have as a skill, but I would side with rev where ball striking would be on the more important side. Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy as of Nov 6, 2023 (Past WITB) Driver: Paradym TD w/ GD ADDI 6X Driver Shootout! Wood: F7 3 wood 14.5* w/ Motore F1 Shaft Irons: T Series - T200 5 Iron T150 6-9 Iron T100 PW/GW Wedge: Toura Golf - A Spec 53,37,61 degree Putter: Mezz Max! Balls: Vice Pro Plus Drip (Blue/Orange) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaidJacket Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 My putting was once again great today. My driving was good too. Only missing a few fairways in the second cut when out of the fairway. My course management was good as usual. My approach shots today were Meh.... I missed a lot of greens today and my game suffered shooting 78 with 2-doubles. UGH! My Sun Mountain bag currently includes: 771CSI 5i - PW and PFC Micro Tour-c 52°, 56°, 60 wedges EXS 10.5*, 929-HS FW4 16.5* Willimette w/GolfPride Contour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG STU Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 I think that it has to do with one's game and the importance is different for different folks game. Back when I played competetive golf I never ever considered myself a good ball striker. But I stayed in the hunt by being able to get out of trouble and a good short game and great putting. My old man used to hate my game and said I lived and would die by the wedge and putter. If my putting was off I suffered. Actually now I am a better ball striker than I ever was and hit more fairways and GIRs. I have gotten older and do not putt bad but not nearly as good as I used to Course management that is a broad subject for me. Back in the day my late friend Big John told me one time "You hit the ball long and are a heck of a wedge player and a stellar putter but your course management simply sucks" I guess with age my course management has improved but sometimes I can get so stupid that even the wedge and putter can't help me. I do not get as stupid now as often as I used to but sometimes it will surface Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56* Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmith123 Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 Could it be that the value of putting is a matter of perspective? If I miss a bunch of greens, putting is the most important part of my game, but if I'm hitting almost every green, I don't lean as much on it. Sent from my LGLS992 using MyGolfSpy mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucklehead Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 ^ this! When I'm hitting greens, I 2 putt much more than chip then 1 putt Sent from my E6853 using MyGolfSpy mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 I've been hard on putting here lately. So I wanted to set the record straight. It does matter it's just that modern metrics have shown that it's not as all important as some have made it seem in the past. The two important facets of putting are consistently holing short putts and three putt avoidance (generally speed). So while I will continue to point out that ball striking is more important than putting I'm acknowledging that putting is important. I do agree with you. While I could possible shave a few strokes off my score with putting, I could put a lot less pressure on that aspect of my game by hitting more greens or improving my short game. If I am badly out of position with the driver, I am losing strokes by having to pitch back to safety. if I am hitting fairways or narrowly missing, i have to hit solid iron shots to get myself within 2 putt range. If I am missing greens I have to be able to get my chips/pitches to withing 1 putt range; which is my biggest struggle. In the end it is up to each individual to assess the aspects of their game to determine the optimum place to work on their game. For some it could be putting, for others it could be tee shots, approach irons, or shortgame. I just don't think a generalization that one place is best for everyone no matter what their handicap. Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe Backup Putters: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W, TM-180 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revkev Posted July 23, 2017 Author Share Posted July 23, 2017 Course management is absolutely a skill I think alot of golfers do not think about and are weak on. Playing to your strengths will definitely help lower scores. Ping G20 driver through wedges Bombtech blade putter I would go further and say that it is a skill that people think they are better at than they really are. Mention it and invariably people start talking about hitting less than driver off the tee. That is hardly what course management is about. It's about knowing what strategy on each hole will net the lowest possible score over a period of time for your game and the having the flexibility to be able to determine how to continue on a hole when you get out of position. It could be a huge error in golf management to take less than driver on a hole also BTW. Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60 Aldila R flex - 42.25 inches SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft Ping G410 7, 9 wood Alta 65 R flex Srixon ZX5 MK II 5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex India 52,56 (60 pending) UST recoil 75's R flex Evon roll ER 5 32 inches It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted July 23, 2017 Share Posted July 23, 2017 Putting has saved me ass when ball striking was bad and it has hindered me when I can't miss a gir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny B Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 Putting matters to me... a lot!! It's what saves my rounds, or dooms me to mid-80's rounds. There are several holes at my course where I have difficulty getting to greens in regulations. Some are just long for me, and others are long when the prevailing wind blows. I don't hit many wayward shots, so the long game for me is about as good as it's going to get unless I can gain another 25 yards. (They keep saying they make drivers that will give me more yards, but they lie!) So, I have to take advantage of the shorter holes, and scramble well on the longer ones. That's why I work hard on chipping and putting. I can see you saying that I should move up to the senior tees, but if I can still shoot in the 70's, I'll stay where I am. Actually, the senior tees on many of the longer holes don't give enough yardage to make much of a difference. On those holes where the difference is substantial, it wouldn't really affect my play on the course. “We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty1885 Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 My putting stats went up from 1.6 to 1.8 lately and upon my investigation it turns out I've been using more of my Texas wedge lately. Ok it's cool. On the topic of course management, for me it starts before my round begins. I plan out all of the shots and options I'd hit on every holes in advance. This usually makes it easier to visualize my shots and sticking to the plan which is the hardest thing. Plan for the best way to score each holes make options for misses and stick to it. Many of my playing partner fail this because when they stand over the ball they change their plan and go-for-it with such a low percentage shots. Take inventory of your shots regularly and make the plan and stick to it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingcscott Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 Ya know Branden Grace had 28 putts on the 62. I had 29 on my 75 the other day ( for me it was like shooting a 65 at the Open) I think you have to get efficient everywhere you can. Make up for lost stroke with gains somewhere else. I played a tournament against a team the was low single digits and +0.7. They were good. Real good. But mostly they were long off the tee accurate approach and then had shorter putts. It is a real good recipe for success in this game. Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 My putting stats went up from 1.6 to 1.8 lately and upon my investigation it turns out I've been using more of my Texas wedge lately. Ok it's cool. Most people don't count a putt unless they are on the green. Using a putter from the fairway or rough is a choice, but doesn't count as a putt Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe Backup Putters: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W, TM-180 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty1885 Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 Most people don't count a putt unless they are on the green. Using a putter from the fairway or rough is a choice, but doesn't count as a putt My game golf live counted that I believed when I tag it. I guess I can go back and edit the rounds but it's ok with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 My game golf live counted that I believed when I tag it. I guess I can go back and edit the rounds but it's ok with me. Interesting. When entering does that app ask where the shot was taken from? Tee, fairway, bunker, rough, etc Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe Backup Putters: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W, TM-180 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty1885 Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 Interesting. When entering does that app ask where the shot was taken from? Tee, fairway, bunker, rough, etcNo. It's a tagging device. Wourking with the app on the phone. Tag it and forget it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWar Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 Completely agree putting is crucial but not the most crucial. I work on speed and putts within 10ft. As with what most have said, course management is something I have really worked on and helped immensely. Understanding pin position and how that affects positioning the ball off the tee. I have always been pretty wild off the tee, mainly because where I played didn't require much accuracy. I joined a club this summer and the course, a Donald Ross, has put me in my place. So I have made a concerted effort to really focus on ball striking and accuracy with all clubs in the bag. Its almost a new game, definitely humbling but gives me something to work on... Currently working on: Long iron accuracy... Wedge distances ( Driver and 3d workability... Its a process... Epic Flash SZ 9o w/ Ventus 6X Rogue 4wd w/ ATMOS Red 7X CBX 20o w/ ATMOS Blue 7S tipped 1" JPX 900 Tour 4i - PW (standard lofts) Rifle SM6 51o, 59o, SM7 55o 2019 ProV1x Custom Ming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfJunkie302 Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 In Mark Broadie's book, Every Shot Counts, he talks about how putting is way overrated. Tour playes lose the most strokes from the 200 yard range. Don't get me wrong, putting is important, but if there were a couple of things you wanted to work on, work on ball striking and long iron shots. Sent from my SM-T580 using MyGolfSpy mobile app 2017 M1 460, Project X HZRDUS Black 6.0 JPX EZ 3 wood Fly-Z 4H MP-60, 3i-PW, True Temper Dynamic Gold S5 54° & 58°, True Temper Dynamic Gold California Monterey Pro V1x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty1885 Posted July 24, 2017 Share Posted July 24, 2017 In Mark Broadie's book, Every Shot Counts, he talks about how putting is way overrated. Tour playes lose the most strokes from the 200 yard range. Don't get me wrong, putting is important, but if there were a couple of things you wanted to work on, work on ball striking and long iron shots. Sent from my SM-T580 using MyGolfSpy mobile app It makes a lot of sense especially for better players and definitely tour pros. Mainly because of better course management skills and better short game as a prerequisite. A high handicappers would not be able to advance forward properly, because they are already doing it. I don't know of any high or even mid handicappers who's not hitting the longest clubs in their bag on 2nd shot on long par 4s or par 5s. Either because they don't know what they don't know or they have yet the discipline to hit the shots in within their ability. When was the last time you see a high handicappers compensate their aim, they are all line up to the hole best they can and proceed to slice or hook away from the target. If they have better awareness of their game and better course management skill, they'd would not be high handicappers because they'd have enough escape velocity to the next level even at the same skill sets. Better players have better awareness of their game and their shot distance and probably have a half way decent short game so they can benefit more on the stroke gain theory. The group that benefits most is obviously tour pros where "every shots counts". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TR1PTIK Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 @Rusty1885 & cnosil When editing your rounds with GG, you can tell it whether or not you were on the green. If you were off the green, it will remove that stroke from your putting stats. Just FYI. Avid user of GG for a while now. I can certainly agree with the sentiment here about putting - absolutely important, but not as much so as ball striking and ability to find fairways and greens. My current PR (at one of the easiest courses in my area) is a 78 in which I had like 26 putts or something. If you can 2-putt more often than not and make the majority of putts inside 5' you should be working on your ability to hit the ball consistently and maybe even a little shot shaping - primarily being able to flight the ball. At least that's my opinion. Driver: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S Fairway Wood: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S Hybrid: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB Irons: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100 Wedges: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200 Putter: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34" Bag: Players 5 Stand Bag Ball: Maxfli Tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBT Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Putting isn't the be all end all that some make it out to be, but it's still very important. In fact its more important for better players because it's a higher percentage of their total strokes. For higher handicappers like me, shots from 200 and in are probably the most important, if you can hit more greens you can quickly save a ton of strokes. XR Driver Matrix Ozik 8m3 Black Tie Shaft King F7 3W UST Mamiya Chrome Elements 7F4 Shaft King F7 5W UST Mamiya Chrome Elements 7F4 Shaft King F7 4 Hybrid Graphite Designs Tour AD-HY 95 Shaft PXG 0211 DC 5-PW Mitsubishi MMT 80 Shafts RTX ZIPCORE 50*,54*,58* UST Mamiya Recoil 95 Shafts Metal X Milled #7 with SuperStroke 2.0 grip MTB Twitter: @timldotson Instagram: timldotson Facebook: TimDotson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drandrus Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 I can struggle from the tee box keeping it in playable pisitions but can also struggle with 3 putts. Would my scoring benefit more from working on staying in play off the tee or reducing my number of putts per hole? Sent from my SM-G920V using MyGolfSpy mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSauer Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 I can struggle from the tee box keeping it in playable pisitions but can also struggle with 3 putts. Would my scoring benefit more from working on staying in play off the tee or reducing my number of putts per hole? Sent from my SM-G920V using MyGolfSpy mobile app We just talked about this last night while out golfing and someone brought up a good point. As long as you're putting is on point, all you gotta do is get it on the green. Which do you feel you struggle more with, putting or tee shots? As long as you can get GIR or even close and you're putting is a strong point, you'll definitely shave strokes. Driver: Aerojet 9* | Hzrdus Black Gen 4 Fairway: G410 3W 13* | Alta CB 65 Hybrid: TS2 18* | Tensei AV Blue 70 S Hybrid: iCrossover 20* | Kai'li White 80 Irons: P790 5-PW | DG S300 Wedges: Vokey SM9 | 52, 56, 60 | DG S200 Putter: Link.1 | Accra x LAB --- LAB Golf Link.1 Review --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeekingGolf Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Truly everything is important in golf you have to be good at all areas of the game we love. Some are better at one area than others but the score comes to those who put it all together. Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy "Obviously my iron play is incredible, and when I get going I can get hot, but this course just fits my eye. The shaping of the holes, and just a couple of the doglegs, I'm able to shape shots." – Bryson DeChambeau In my Hoofer Lite Z765 9.5 with Miyazaka Kaula Mizu 6 Stiff Shaft (TrueGolfFit Recommended!!!) F8 3-4 wood 16* Aldilla Blue 70 Stiff shaft Rescue mid 2 iron 16* One Length Forged Tec 4-GW with AMT Black shafts Futura Phantom 2 Tour B330 RX Like Bass Fishing? Check out my one and only article!!! https://www.bassresource.com/beginner/get-started-bass-fishing.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWar Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 It makes a lot of sense especially for better players and definitely tour pros. Mainly because of better course management skills and better short game as a prerequisite. A high handicappers would not be able to advance forward properly, because they are already doing it. I don't know of any high or even mid handicappers who's not hitting the longest clubs in their bag on 2nd shot on long par 4s or par 5s. Either because they don't know what they don't know or they have yet the discipline to hit the shots in within their ability. When was the last time you see a high handicappers compensate their aim, they are all line up to the hole best they can and proceed to slice or hook away from the target. If they have better awareness of their game and better course management skill, they'd would not be high handicappers because they'd have enough escape velocity to the next level even at the same skill sets. Better players have better awareness of their game and their shot distance and probably have a half way decent short game so they can benefit more on the stroke gain theory. The group that benefits most is obviously tour pros where "every shots counts". 100% agree with this... Its not the be all end all for high handicappers. There is also a book Lowest Score Wins and that is a particularly good book in playing to percentages which would be great for all handicaps. Epic Flash SZ 9o w/ Ventus 6X Rogue 4wd w/ ATMOS Red 7X CBX 20o w/ ATMOS Blue 7S tipped 1" JPX 900 Tour 4i - PW (standard lofts) Rifle SM6 51o, 59o, SM7 55o 2019 ProV1x Custom Ming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TR1PTIK Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 @drandrus - If you struggle off the tee bad enough that you're accumulating penalty strokes then you should absolutely work on that first. If you're just missing the fairway, but able to maintain some sort of line at the green then I'd work on putting. Another note about putting vs. ball striking... I think it's much easier to improve putting if you really throw yourself into it. Try some different putters, different grips, different shaft lengths, and purchase a mirror and or putting rail to help you dial in your setup posture and stroke. Putters are the easiest club to demo because they don't require a real swing. Minimize the 3-putts and then get to work on the other 60-70% of shots that make up your score. Driver: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S Fairway Wood: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S Hybrid: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB Irons: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100 Wedges: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200 Putter: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34" Bag: Players 5 Stand Bag Ball: Maxfli Tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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