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Stupid pin placements


Sluggo42

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Another issue our Super has to deal with. We have extremely small greens. Money was running out during construction so one of the areas they decided to save was the size of the greens to cut down on maintenance cost.

 

So combine that with all the unrepaired ball marks, sometimes he pulls his hair out trying to find suitable locations for pins

What course is this at?

Driver:  Taylormade 2017 M2 9.5 degree head played at 8 degrees.  Fujikura speeder evolution tour spec x flex shaft tipped 1/4 inch.  

 

3-Wood: 15 degree M2 tour.  Fujikura pro 73 tour spec X flex shaft.  

 

Mizuno H5 2 iron.

 

4 iron: mizuno mp h4 4 iron dynamic gold s300

 

5-pw iron: mizuno mp 54 dynamic gold s300

 

52, 56, 60 wedges: cleveland 588 rotex cavity

 

putter: 34 inch nike method 00 half circle mallet putter

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I have set pins for several tours including Majors. Every tour will issue guidelines for pin placements and for many events, will supervise the placement of dots at the beginning of the week. While there are no specific rules, they would never allow a position where the ball rolls up to the hole and then rolls back. It happened once in modern history (US Open at Shinnecock) because the greens became incredibly dry and the governing bodies have never forgotten it.

A good rule of thumb for your club should be; 6 easy, 6 medium, 6 hard - 6 front, 6 middle, 6 back - 9 right, 9 left. Easy is considered, away from hazards and 15-20 of relatively flat ground around the pin. Medium is usually flat, the length of the flagstick around the hole. Hard is near a hazard, edge of the green or only 3 feet of flat surface around the hole (about the length of the cup cutter).

It is almost impossible to do this as you change the cups, it takes planning. If your superintendent doesn't have preplanned pin placements, I suggest that you and your buddies create one for him/her using the guidelines above. If they don't use it, then you have good reason to ****** and I would loudly.

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What course is this at?

Compass PoInte in Maryland.

 

 

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Call me crazy but... I like tough flag placements! Putting is usually boring, if I have to aim 45* in the wrong direction, that's fun!

Driver:  :ping-small:  G 10.5* W/Tour Stiff 65g Ping Shaft   

Fairway Woods:  :cobra-small:  Cobra F6 13.5*, F6 Baffler 16*  

Irons: Split Set-  :ping-small: i200 3i - 7i ,  :benhogan-small: Ft Worth 15s, 8 (36), 9 (40), PW (44) 

Wedges: :benhogan-small:  TK, 52* & 56*

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Bag:  :ping-small: Hoofer 5way

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Call me crazy but... I like tough flag placements! Putting is usually boring, if I have to aim 45* in the wrong direction, that's fun!

Yes it is ....sometimes.

 

 

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Rick

 

 

Left Hand, 

Driver; PXG 0311XF Cypher 50 gr Senior  
5 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr       
7 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr      
5 hybrid; Cally Steelhead, Hazardous R2     
Irons; Mizuno JPX 923HM 7-GW Recoil 460 F2
Wedges; Titleist S9 54*, Mizuno SW 56*

Putter; Waaay too many to list

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I have set pins for several tours including Majors. Every tour will issue guidelines for pin placements and for many events, will supervise the placement of dots at the beginning of the week. While there are no specific rules, they would never allow a position where the ball rolls up to the hole and then rolls back. It happened once in modern history (US Open at Shinnecock) because the greens became incredibly dry and the governing bodies have never forgotten it.

A good rule of thumb for your club should be; 6 easy, 6 medium, 6 hard - 6 front, 6 middle, 6 back - 9 right, 9 left. Easy is considered, away from hazards and 15-20 of relatively flat ground around the pin. Medium is usually flat, the length of the flagstick around the hole. Hard is near a hazard, edge of the green or only 3 feet of flat surface around the hole (about the length of the cup cutter).

It is almost impossible to do this as you change the cups, it takes planning. If your superintendent doesn't have preplanned pin placements, I suggest that you and your buddies create one for him/her using the guidelines above. If they don't use it, then you have good reason to ****** and I would loudly.

I've heard that B4 about the 6,6,6 from a course Super years ago.

Yes we were at Shinnecock that US Open weekend, WOW that was terrible.

There was also a US Open at Wing Foot that came close to to dry/fast.

You must have some good stories from setting pin placement at major venues.

 

 

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Rick

 

 

Left Hand, 

Driver; PXG 0311XF Cypher 50 gr Senior  
5 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr       
7 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr      
5 hybrid; Cally Steelhead, Hazardous R2     
Irons; Mizuno JPX 923HM 7-GW Recoil 460 F2
Wedges; Titleist S9 54*, Mizuno SW 56*

Putter; Waaay too many to list

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I've heard that B4 about the 6,6,6 from a course Super years ago.

Yes we were at Shinnecock that US Open weekend, WOW that was terrible.

There was also a US Open at Wing Foot that came close to to dry/fast.

You must have some good stories from setting pin placement at major venues.

 

 

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Not Really. Usually a bunch of stuffy, boring men, rolling balls all over the place for 30 minutes a green while you stand there staring into space. Only to put the pins within inches of the same place they used the last time. I decided to document the process at one particular Major, only to have my disposable camera smashed in front of me (yes this was before smart phones).

 

One side note, I got very good at manipulating the Stimp Meter to give them whatever reading they were looking for. Dave Pelz actually invented a system to prevent that and get accurate readings and demonstrated it for use. Unfortunately, hardly anyone used it. I think he stopped making them but not sure.

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Last Summer I had a tee time at a Denver Metro course that is typically tough but fun. When I walked into the Pro Shop the sweater folder working the register warned me about the special setup that day. Once a year, they put on a tournament for the members called "War of Attrition". The superintendent pulls up everything but the tip tee markers, double cuts/rolls all the greens and sets the holes in what he believes to be the most ridiculous locations. It was absolutely nuts. Just one of many sadistic examples; on the 9th hole I had a 9 footer for birdie and walked off with double after sinking a really tough 15 footer. At the time I was playing around +2 index; my 52 putts on the day added up to a total score of 89.

 

 

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One good thing of tough/tricky/unfair pin placements is that while teaching a younger kid to play it makes them think about the putt, even if it's only 2' or so.  I've on-course mentored many kids who take the tricky "short ones" for granted.  It provides an excellent learning experience.

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I have set pins for several tours including Majors. Every tour will issue guidelines for pin placements and for many events, will supervise the placement of dots at the beginning of the week. While there are no specific rules, they would never allow a position where the ball rolls up to the hole and then rolls back. It happened once in modern history (US Open at Shinnecock) because the greens became incredibly dry and the governing bodies have never forgotten it.

A good rule of thumb for your club should be; 6 easy, 6 medium, 6 hard - 6 front, 6 middle, 6 back - 9 right, 9 left. Easy is considered, away from hazards and 15-20 of relatively flat ground around the pin. Medium is usually flat, the length of the flagstick around the hole. Hard is near a hazard, edge of the green or only 3 feet of flat surface around the hole (about the length of the cup cutter).

It is almost impossible to do this as you change the cups, it takes planning. If your superintendent doesn't have preplanned pin placements, I suggest that you and your buddies create one for him/her using the guidelines above. If they don't use it, then you have good reason to ****** and I would loudly.

Thanks - nice summary - fortunately my club follows exactly this process.

 

One small correction - everyone remembers the Shinnecock fiasco but there was an absolute train wreck in the second round on 18 at the Olympic club. Also there was the ridiculous year where they couldn't mow the 18th green at Southern Hills - that's the one that led to several short 3 putts there on the last day because they felt safe putting the pin on a ridge. Oops!

 

 

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Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

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Thanks - nice summary - fortunately my club follows exactly this process.

 

One small correction - everyone remembers the Shinnecock fiasco but there was an absolute train wreck in the second round on 18 at the Olympic club. Also there was the ridiculous year where they couldn't mow the 18th green at Southern Hills - that's the one that led to several short 3 putts there on the last day because they felt safe putting the pin on a ridge. Oops!

 

 

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yup, remember Olympic Club all right. That was equally as bad as Shinnecock.

 

 

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Rick

 

 

Left Hand, 

Driver; PXG 0311XF Cypher 50 gr Senior  
5 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr       
7 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr      
5 hybrid; Cally Steelhead, Hazardous R2     
Irons; Mizuno JPX 923HM 7-GW Recoil 460 F2
Wedges; Titleist S9 54*, Mizuno SW 56*

Putter; Waaay too many to list

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Thanks - nice summary - fortunately my club follows exactly this process.

 

One small correction - everyone remembers the Shinnecock fiasco but there was an absolute train wreck in the second round on 18 at the Olympic club. Also there was the ridiculous year where they couldn't mow the 18th green at Southern Hills - that's the one that led to several short 3 putts there on the last day because they felt safe putting the pin on a ridge. Oops!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

It is a precise balancing act that they don't discuss enough on TV. Often, the plan is to Triple mow greens, roll and add very little water during each tournament day. They then back away from that mowing some greens only 1 or 2 times, even 0 to try and get every green exactly the same. But like I said, the Stimp Meter is a very imperfect science, which is why Pelz made his device.

 

Another side note. TV broadcasters often get the concept of rolling greens wrong. It is not to speed up the green but to smooth them out. The speed gained after rolling is lost before the round starts. 

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It is a precise balancing act that they don't discuss enough on TV. Often, the plan is to Triple mow greens, roll and add very little water during each tournament day. They then back away from that mowing some greens only 1 or 2 times, even 0 to try and get every green exactly the same. But like I said, the Stimp Meter is a very imperfect science, which is why Pelz made his device.

 

Another side note. TV broadcasters often get the concept of rolling greens wrong. It is not to speed up the green but to smooth them out. The speed gained after rolling is lost before the round starts.

Excellent write up. Especially about rolling the greens.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Rick

 

 

Left Hand, 

Driver; PXG 0311XF Cypher 50 gr Senior  
5 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr       
7 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr      
5 hybrid; Cally Steelhead, Hazardous R2     
Irons; Mizuno JPX 923HM 7-GW Recoil 460 F2
Wedges; Titleist S9 54*, Mizuno SW 56*

Putter; Waaay too many to list

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Call me crazy but... I like tough flag placements! Putting is usually boring, if I have to aim 45* in the wrong direction, that's fun!

Ok crazy Do you know what's not boring? Running in birdies.

 

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Fairway: Titleist 917 F3 15*

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Irons: MacGregor MT-86 Pro

Wedges: Vokey 50/54/58

Putter: SeeMore X2 Costa del Mar

Ball: Srixon Z-Star

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There is one course I played last summer I will never forget, the pin placement was front green on a pretty heavy slope, if you didnt drain it, it would roll right back and even further away. I watched a playing partner 6 putt... Was the most frustrating thing

Driver  :ping-small: G425 9* Hzrdus Smoke Green Small batch 6.5 70g

Fairway Wood:   image.jpeg.b9b42744cb10f0524500549b74545dd7.jpegCobra Radspeed Big 3 Hzrdus Smoke Black 6.5

Hybrid:  image.jpeg.c5ec9f74aa563ad0246ab686b1c35eeb.jpegCobra Aerojet 5 Wood Hzrdus Smoke Black 6.5

Irons:     :titelist-small: T200 (4-AW) AMT Black Stiff Shafts 

Wedges:  :cleveland-small: Tour Rack 56* 60*

Putter:   :cameron-small: Scotty Cameron Golo 5

Right Handed 

Pittsburgh, PA

 

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