jpcgolf Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Another issue our Super has to deal with. We have extremely small greens. Money was running out during construction so one of the areas they decided to save was the size of the greens to cut down on maintenance cost. So combine that with all the unrepaired ball marks, sometimes he pulls his hair out trying to find suitable locations for pins What course is this at? Driver: Taylormade 2017 M2 9.5 degree head played at 8 degrees. Fujikura speeder evolution tour spec x flex shaft tipped 1/4 inch. 3-Wood: 15 degree M2 tour. Fujikura pro 73 tour spec X flex shaft. Mizuno H5 2 iron. 4 iron: mizuno mp h4 4 iron dynamic gold s300 5-pw iron: mizuno mp 54 dynamic gold s300 52, 56, 60 wedges: cleveland 588 rotex cavity putter: 34 inch nike method 00 half circle mallet putter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griecot313 Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 I have set pins for several tours including Majors. Every tour will issue guidelines for pin placements and for many events, will supervise the placement of dots at the beginning of the week. While there are no specific rules, they would never allow a position where the ball rolls up to the hole and then rolls back. It happened once in modern history (US Open at Shinnecock) because the greens became incredibly dry and the governing bodies have never forgotten it. A good rule of thumb for your club should be; 6 easy, 6 medium, 6 hard - 6 front, 6 middle, 6 back - 9 right, 9 left. Easy is considered, away from hazards and 15-20 of relatively flat ground around the pin. Medium is usually flat, the length of the flagstick around the hole. Hard is near a hazard, edge of the green or only 3 feet of flat surface around the hole (about the length of the cup cutter). It is almost impossible to do this as you change the cups, it takes planning. If your superintendent doesn't have preplanned pin placements, I suggest that you and your buddies create one for him/her using the guidelines above. If they don't use it, then you have good reason to ****** and I would loudly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfspy_CG2 Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 What course is this at?Compass PoInte in Maryland. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk G430 Max 10K TSiR1 15.0 Aldlia Ascent 60g TSR2 18.0 PX Aldila Ascent 6og TSi1 20 Aldila Ascent Shafts R T350 5-GW SteelFiber I80 SM10 48F/54M and58K S159 48S/52S/56W/60B Select 5.5 Flowback 35" ProV1 Play number 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dang3rtown Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Call me crazy but... I like tough flag placements! Putting is usually boring, if I have to aim 45* in the wrong direction, that's fun! Driver: G 10.5* W/Tour Stiff 65g Ping Shaft Fairway Woods: Cobra F6 13.5*, F6 Baffler 16* Irons: Split Set- i200 3i - 7i , Ft Worth 15s, 8 (36), 9 (40), PW (44) Wedges: TK, 52* & 56* Putter: Sigma G Kushin Bag: Hoofer 5way Balls: TP5/X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickp Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Call me crazy but... I like tough flag placements! Putting is usually boring, if I have to aim 45* in the wrong direction, that's fun!Yes it is ....sometimes. Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy Rick Left Hand, Driver; PXG 0311XF Cypher 50 gr Senior 5 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr 7 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr 5 hybrid; Cally Steelhead, Hazardous R2 Irons; Mizuno JPX 923HM 7-GW Recoil 460 F2 Wedges; Titleist S9 54*, Mizuno SW 56* Putter; Waaay too many to list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickp Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 I have set pins for several tours including Majors. Every tour will issue guidelines for pin placements and for many events, will supervise the placement of dots at the beginning of the week. While there are no specific rules, they would never allow a position where the ball rolls up to the hole and then rolls back. It happened once in modern history (US Open at Shinnecock) because the greens became incredibly dry and the governing bodies have never forgotten it. A good rule of thumb for your club should be; 6 easy, 6 medium, 6 hard - 6 front, 6 middle, 6 back - 9 right, 9 left. Easy is considered, away from hazards and 15-20 of relatively flat ground around the pin. Medium is usually flat, the length of the flagstick around the hole. Hard is near a hazard, edge of the green or only 3 feet of flat surface around the hole (about the length of the cup cutter). It is almost impossible to do this as you change the cups, it takes planning. If your superintendent doesn't have preplanned pin placements, I suggest that you and your buddies create one for him/her using the guidelines above. If they don't use it, then you have good reason to ****** and I would loudly. I've heard that B4 about the 6,6,6 from a course Super years ago. Yes we were at Shinnecock that US Open weekend, WOW that was terrible. There was also a US Open at Wing Foot that came close to to dry/fast. You must have some good stories from setting pin placement at major venues. Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy Rick Left Hand, Driver; PXG 0311XF Cypher 50 gr Senior 5 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr 7 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr 5 hybrid; Cally Steelhead, Hazardous R2 Irons; Mizuno JPX 923HM 7-GW Recoil 460 F2 Wedges; Titleist S9 54*, Mizuno SW 56* Putter; Waaay too many to list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griecot313 Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 I've heard that B4 about the 6,6,6 from a course Super years ago. Yes we were at Shinnecock that US Open weekend, WOW that was terrible. There was also a US Open at Wing Foot that came close to to dry/fast. You must have some good stories from setting pin placement at major venues. Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy Not Really. Usually a bunch of stuffy, boring men, rolling balls all over the place for 30 minutes a green while you stand there staring into space. Only to put the pins within inches of the same place they used the last time. I decided to document the process at one particular Major, only to have my disposable camera smashed in front of me (yes this was before smart phones). One side note, I got very good at manipulating the Stimp Meter to give them whatever reading they were looking for. Dave Pelz actually invented a system to prevent that and get accurate readings and demonstrated it for use. Unfortunately, hardly anyone used it. I think he stopped making them but not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poprocksncoke Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Years ago at a local PGA Club pro tournament they placed the pin on a slope that was so bad I know one guy who 7 puttted!! SLDR 10.5 Oban HB R11s Rip Phenom Ft. Worth Black Irons 588 RTX Rotex 2.0 54 CG10 58 EV 5.3 Duo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downlowkey Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 Last Summer I had a tee time at a Denver Metro course that is typically tough but fun. When I walked into the Pro Shop the sweater folder working the register warned me about the special setup that day. Once a year, they put on a tournament for the members called "War of Attrition". The superintendent pulls up everything but the tip tee markers, double cuts/rolls all the greens and sets the holes in what he believes to be the most ridiculous locations. It was absolutely nuts. Just one of many sadistic examples; on the 9th hole I had a 9 footer for birdie and walked off with double after sinking a really tough 15 footer. At the time I was playing around +2 index; my 52 putts on the day added up to a total score of 89. Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy ______S9-1 Pro D - Matrix Ozik XCON 6 S ______S9-1 Pro 15* - Matrix Ozik XCON 7 S ________3DX 17* - Matrix Ozik Altus Hybrid SG ______ICON Black 4-PW - KBS Tour V S __________588 RTG 49 RTX 52.10 56.12 - DG S400 ______Amazing Grace NYC Tour CS _______'19 TP5X (the preceding have all been gamer approved) "The most important shot in golf is the next one“ - Ben Hogan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK in TEXAS Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 One good thing of tough/tricky/unfair pin placements is that while teaching a younger kid to play it makes them think about the putt, even if it's only 2' or so. I've on-course mentored many kids who take the tricky "short ones" for granted. It provides an excellent learning experience. MENTOR, L4 COACH & TRAINER FIRST TEE GREATER HOUSTON HDCP: 8.3 (GHIN: 3143312) In my bag, April 2023 TS3 Driver & 4 Wood Hzrdous Smoke Shaft (Stiff Flex) TS2 Hybrids Mitsubishi Tensei Shaft (Stiff Flex) MP-59 5-PW; KBS Tour (Regular Flex) SM8 Wedges EVNROLL ER2 Putter SRIXON Z-STAR DIAMOND BALL Sun Mountain Cart Bag 4.0 Push Cart (I'm walking 9 outta 10 rounds!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revkev Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 I have set pins for several tours including Majors. Every tour will issue guidelines for pin placements and for many events, will supervise the placement of dots at the beginning of the week. While there are no specific rules, they would never allow a position where the ball rolls up to the hole and then rolls back. It happened once in modern history (US Open at Shinnecock) because the greens became incredibly dry and the governing bodies have never forgotten it. A good rule of thumb for your club should be; 6 easy, 6 medium, 6 hard - 6 front, 6 middle, 6 back - 9 right, 9 left. Easy is considered, away from hazards and 15-20 of relatively flat ground around the pin. Medium is usually flat, the length of the flagstick around the hole. Hard is near a hazard, edge of the green or only 3 feet of flat surface around the hole (about the length of the cup cutter). It is almost impossible to do this as you change the cups, it takes planning. If your superintendent doesn't have preplanned pin placements, I suggest that you and your buddies create one for him/her using the guidelines above. If they don't use it, then you have good reason to ****** and I would loudly. Thanks - nice summary - fortunately my club follows exactly this process. One small correction - everyone remembers the Shinnecock fiasco but there was an absolute train wreck in the second round on 18 at the Olympic club. Also there was the ridiculous year where they couldn't mow the 18th green at Southern Hills - that's the one that led to several short 3 putts there on the last day because they felt safe putting the pin on a ridge. Oops! Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60 Aldila R flex - 42.25 inches SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft Ping G410 7, 9 wood Alta 65 R flex Srixon ZX5 MK II 5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex India 52,56 (60 pending) UST recoil 75's R flex Evon roll ER 5 32 inches It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickp Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 Thanks - nice summary - fortunately my club follows exactly this process. One small correction - everyone remembers the Shinnecock fiasco but there was an absolute train wreck in the second round on 18 at the Olympic club. Also there was the ridiculous year where they couldn't mow the 18th green at Southern Hills - that's the one that led to several short 3 putts there on the last day because they felt safe putting the pin on a ridge. Oops! Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy yup, remember Olympic Club all right. That was equally as bad as Shinnecock. Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy Rick Left Hand, Driver; PXG 0311XF Cypher 50 gr Senior 5 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr 7 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr 5 hybrid; Cally Steelhead, Hazardous R2 Irons; Mizuno JPX 923HM 7-GW Recoil 460 F2 Wedges; Titleist S9 54*, Mizuno SW 56* Putter; Waaay too many to list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griecot313 Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 Thanks - nice summary - fortunately my club follows exactly this process. One small correction - everyone remembers the Shinnecock fiasco but there was an absolute train wreck in the second round on 18 at the Olympic club. Also there was the ridiculous year where they couldn't mow the 18th green at Southern Hills - that's the one that led to several short 3 putts there on the last day because they felt safe putting the pin on a ridge. Oops! Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy It is a precise balancing act that they don't discuss enough on TV. Often, the plan is to Triple mow greens, roll and add very little water during each tournament day. They then back away from that mowing some greens only 1 or 2 times, even 0 to try and get every green exactly the same. But like I said, the Stimp Meter is a very imperfect science, which is why Pelz made his device. Another side note. TV broadcasters often get the concept of rolling greens wrong. It is not to speed up the green but to smooth them out. The speed gained after rolling is lost before the round starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickp Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 It is a precise balancing act that they don't discuss enough on TV. Often, the plan is to Triple mow greens, roll and add very little water during each tournament day. They then back away from that mowing some greens only 1 or 2 times, even 0 to try and get every green exactly the same. But like I said, the Stimp Meter is a very imperfect science, which is why Pelz made his device. Another side note. TV broadcasters often get the concept of rolling greens wrong. It is not to speed up the green but to smooth them out. The speed gained after rolling is lost before the round starts. Excellent write up. Especially about rolling the greens. Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy Rick Left Hand, Driver; PXG 0311XF Cypher 50 gr Senior 5 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr 7 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr 5 hybrid; Cally Steelhead, Hazardous R2 Irons; Mizuno JPX 923HM 7-GW Recoil 460 F2 Wedges; Titleist S9 54*, Mizuno SW 56* Putter; Waaay too many to list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscipleofPenick Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 Call me crazy but... I like tough flag placements! Putting is usually boring, if I have to aim 45* in the wrong direction, that's fun!Ok crazy Do you know what's not boring? Running in birdies. Sent from my SM-G935P using MyGolfSpy mobile app Take Dead Aim Driver: PXG 0211 10.5* Fairway: Titleist 917 F3 15* Hybrid: Adams Idea Pro Boxer Gold 18* Irons: MacGregor MT-86 Pro Wedges: Vokey 50/54/58 Putter: SeeMore X2 Costa del Mar Ball: Srixon Z-Star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian A Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 There is one course I played last summer I will never forget, the pin placement was front green on a pretty heavy slope, if you didnt drain it, it would roll right back and even further away. I watched a playing partner 6 putt... Was the most frustrating thing Driver: G425 9* Hzrdus Smoke Green Small batch 6.5 70g Fairway Wood: Cobra Radspeed Big 3 Hzrdus Smoke Black 6.5 Hybrid: Cobra Aerojet 5 Wood Hzrdus Smoke Black 6.5 Irons: T200 (4-AW) AMT Black Stiff Shafts Wedges: Tour Rack 56* 60* Putter: Scotty Cameron Golo 5 Right Handed Pittsburgh, PA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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