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You Are Not As Good As You Think You Are!


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Yeah... a + handicapper is definitely not going to shoot a 92. Sounds like a mighty illegitimate index to me...

 

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A + can most definitely post something in the 90's if he has a bad enough day. Hell Bowdo is a 2 time tour winner and he posted 4 straight rounds in the 80s at Doral last year. That includes his Sunday 84. If he kept a cap it would've probably been +5 or 6 at the time. http://www.golf.com/hey-its-just-golf-bowditch-posts-sunday-84-doral

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Driver- Tmag 2017 M2 tour issue 8.5* actual loft 7.8* w/ Diamana Ahina 80X 44"
Fairway Metal- Tour Edge Exotics XCG7 Beta 3W 13* w/ Matrix 7m4 X 42.5"

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Irons- Mizuno MP-18 FLI HI 3i and 4i w/ KBS C-taper lite X
          Mizuno MP59 5i and 6I w/ PX 6.5

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Wedges- Scratch 8620 Driver/Slider set.  50*, 56* bent to 55* w/ rifle spinner shafts

                and Titleist Vokey 60* M grind

Putter- Never Compromise Dinero Mogul
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One thing to keep in mind is the difficulty of the players course and how often they play it. I've played our 4-5 times a week and I can tell you exactly where to hit the ball as well as the shape and slope of the greens. Put me on a more difficult course or one that I be never played and I'll guarantee you that my score will be higher.

 

 

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It's possible he just isn't good at tournaments and just goes into a mental funk. I tell this story all the time when people ask me if I played in college. I was around a 3-5 range while in high school. I had played against guys on the golf team at the college (D3, nothing spectacular) I went to and beat them in both high school and casual rounds. Golf tryouts came around, even through 2, +28 on the next 16. It happens. Tournament golf is another beast entirely.

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... Like many issues in golf this one isn't as cut and dried as it might seem. The obvious culprit is the handicap system that most assuredly does not reflect what golfers "normally" shoot but what golfers are capable of shooting. Taking your last 20 scores and only counting the 10 best while dropping the 10 worst is at best a flawed system. I play to a + index but have a degenerative disk that was operated on in 95 and again in 97. Most days I am OK but some days I probably just shouldn't play. However most of those bad days occur mid round and I just don't have it in me to quit. 

... So I shoot around par or under on my good days. But at age 64 I am not a + from 7000 yds anymore. Played one of my favorite courses last week and shot a 68 from the Blues at 6455 but shot a 76 a few days later from the Golds at 7007 with 15-20 mph winds and it is a tree less course. I have only shot in the 80's twice this year and one was a 83 and the other an 87 on a tough course while I was battling a very sore back. But I have had a hand full of high 70's rounds and at least 2 of them I was just swinging very poorly that day. It happens. 

 

... So ya never know what you are looking at when you just see a score. Although I will say my back doesn't bother my short game and I feel a + index should always be good around the greens and with a putter in their hands. 

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Driver:   TaylorMade SIM2 Max 10.5* ... Tensei Raw Blue 60R
Fairway:  TaylorMade SIM2 Max 15* ... Tensei Raw Blue 65R
                 Cobra SZ 18.5* ... Even Flow 75R
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Index. Players post their own scores. The question is on what course & from which teebox ? Did you post accurately & did you play & know the rules ??? Do you play the same course all the time for that index ? Playing PGA West, for example - 7300 yards & 150 slope. From the way backs. The regulars there have a true index for Tournament play. Add a little wind ... not for vanity indexes. I play from the whites there now. A man has to know his limitations.

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I've no joke heard Boo Weakley say something very similar to someone in person, to their face at the local CC. Except he said "you're not good enough to get mad at a bad shot".

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I've no joke heard Boo Weakley say something very similar to someone in person, to their face at the local CC. Except he said "you're not good enough to get mad at a bad shot".

Now that's funny!

 

 

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:ping-small:  410  Hybrids 22*, 26*

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:titelist-small: SM7 54* Wedge

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2018 Official Tester :wilson-small: C300

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A + can most definitely post something in the 90's if he has a bad enough day. Hell Bowdo is a 2 time tour winner and he posted 4 straight rounds in the 80s at Doral last year. That includes his Sunday 84. If he kept a cap it would've probably been +5 or 6 at the time. http://www.golf.com/hey-its-just-golf-bowditch-posts-sunday-84-doral

Yeah, but even I have to be playing really poorly to shoot a 92, and I am an 8.

 

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I've no joke heard Boo Weakley say something very similar to someone in person, to their face at the local CC. Except he said "you're not good enough to get mad at a bad shot".

 

 

... I have to admit that is one that always puzzles me. Someone shooting around 100 that complains about every bad shot, hits one good shot and says "Finally!" As if the 1 good shot is their norm and the other 99 shots are an anomaly.  :wacko:

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Driver:   TaylorMade SIM2 Max 10.5* ... Tensei Raw Blue 60R
Fairway:  TaylorMade SIM2 Max 15* ... Tensei Raw Blue 65R
                 Cobra SZ 18.5* ... Even Flow 75R
Utility:   TaylorMade DHy 19* ... Diamana Limited 65R
              Taylor Made RBZ Tour 21.5* ... Altus 85S
Irons:    4-Pw Cobra King Tour MIM ... Steelfiber 95R
Wedges:  Cobra Snakebite 50* ... Steelfiber 95R
                 Vokey SM8 58* ... Steelfiber 95R
Putter:  Cleveland Hunting Beach Soft 11S 33.5"
Ball:      TaylorMade TP5x (2021)

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Yeah, but even I have to be playing really poorly to shoot a 92, and I am an 8.

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Well it happens. A few months ago I shot -8 thru 14, almost clueless about where I stood, the took a break and realized the score, shot +8 the last 4 holes. I'm a 2 and it's my home course where I have birdied every holes on the course.

 

Cruel things happen to a kind good golfers all the time :)

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In my opinion, handicaps should be recorded for tournaments only. That's the best way to ensure accurate scoring.

Golf is a bit weird in the sense of one being able to record scores during practice rounds where he/she may hit shots that would never be attempted in competition (gimme putts included, breakfast balls, etc...). It's like a baseball player counting the homeruns hit in batting practice towards their career stats- not an effective way of measuring true scoring metrics

 

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... Like many issues in golf this one isn't as cut and dried as it might seem. The obvious culprit is the handicap system that most assuredly does not reflect what golfers "normally" shoot but what golfers are capable of shooting. Taking your last 20 scores and only counting the 10 best while dropping the 10 worst is at best a flawed system. I play to a + index but have a degenerative disk that was operated on in 95 and again in 97. Most days I am OK but some days I probably just shouldn't play. However most of those bad days occur mid round and I just don't have it in me to quit.

 

... So I shoot around par or under on my good days. But at age 64 I am not a + from 7000 yds anymore. Played one of my favorite courses last week and shot a 68 from the Blues at 6455 but shot a 76 a few days later from the Golds at 7007 with 15-20 mph winds and it is a tree less course. I have only shot in the 80's twice this year and one was a 83 and the other an 87 on a tough course while I was battling a very sore back. But I have had a hand full of high 70's rounds and at least 2 of them I was just swinging very poorly that day. It happens.

 

... So ya never know what you are looking at when you just see a score. Although I will say my back doesn't bother my short game and I feel a + index should always be good around the greens and with a putter in their hands.

While I can't see the handicap indexes on my mobile app I'm going to guess that the lower the cap the more likely it is the guy recognizes that a plus capper is capable of shooting 92 given the right (wrong) set of circumstances.

 

Take Chisags back scenario and throw in a growing disgust where there's a total lack of focus around the green.

 

What if the guy's day job is being the maintenance supervisor at a plant or a minister or a doctor and he got called into work for an emergency. (I shot an 86 in a qualifying round at a very easy course once when I had been up all night with a dying person - I was a 2 at the time. You could have written the same things about me as you did George that day. But where were you when I shot 68 in a one day event or 71-70 in the club stroke play championship?).

 

 

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I recently followed along side the journey of a fellow golfer who was playing in a Mid Amateur qualifier, who claimed he was a +2 handicap. Keep in mind that to be a "+" handicap, you have to play some seriously good golf on a consistent basis. We are talking around par or below for the most part all the time. Not an easy feat by any stretch of the imagination.

 

Now I understand that in pressure packed situations, tournaments & the like, you sometimes don't play your best because of the added pressure. But in my thinking, to be a + handicap, you have been in these situations a lot more than just a few times in your career. So you should be used to it right? It shouldn't get to you & you should play your best regardless. Even your worst effort would put you a bit over par.

 

In following along, "George" started off well on the first. Fairway & green hit, lip out for birdie, easy par to start. I'm thinking, great start, the nerves aren't getting to him, awesome. Make a long story short, he proceeds to Double 4 of the first 6 holes, makes 1 birdie the entire round, & shoots a fun-filled 92! Finishing dead last in the field, with exception to those that were DQ'd or WD. How does this happen to someone that is supposedly a "+" handicap? Now he later stated that he couldn't get rid of the lefts or rights off the tee box ... hitting it OB, in the woods, etc. C'mon ... that sounds like a 20 handicap, not a "+"

 

I could see if he had stated that maybe he was around a 3 or 4 .... I'll chalk it up to a bad day or bad round. I also know that you have to be under a certain established handicap in order to even enter into these type of tournaments or events. There was once in my life that I had aspirations of playing competitively, so I played in my fair share of PAT's and Amateur tournaments. And players that said they were a certain handicap, usually played right around that stated cap. Of course, you might find some ringers that would say that they were a 10 and they ended up shooting lights out around par. It was usually that way ... they would overstate their handicap, saying it's higher than it actually should be in order to get strokes. Never the other way around .... saying it was lower than it should be.

 

My point being is this .... be honest with yourself and play to your "Real" handicap and not a made up one. Maybe you just aren't good enough anymore to play in such events. If that's the case, leave that spot for someone that actually IS and would want to play. There comes a time when you have to be honest with your ability and maybe take a step back from these type of events. Go be a ringer in a charity golf tournament.

 

Ok ... done with rant. Thoughts?

I've seen a lot more 15's that play like 5's. I joined a more upscale club many years ago. Most of the guys I played with said they were 5-12's. They always seemed to have terrible rounds in competition. Nothing in the world but ego handicaps. I'd rather admit to a 15 and win money. One of these guys sarcastically announced me as the best 14 in the club. After the noise died down, I looked him in the eye and said "15.

 

 

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Played to 7.6 before i started playing tournament golf. Play to 12.3 now. A gimme here or there, a roll to a better lie, foot wedge from bad lie, often are "forgotten" outside of tournament golf. Play it down everywhere, take legitimate rules correct drops, and putt it into the hole to really find your true cap.

 

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Ok obviously we have covered all the ends of the spectrum of what could have happened etc. tournaments are just different animals and I think that's what it comes down to. Shoot I'm not a + probably won't ever be. But as Chisag said a back flares up(hand raised) bad day/night at the office day before and it carries over. So many things impact you that really don't have anything to do with your skill level. For some of us our pride pushes us through the round even when we are terrible that day or in pain. For some and we have all seen it even on the tour they just give up and WD. I'd much rather see him shoot in the 90's than to walk off. That's just me.

 

 

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Yeah, but even I have to be playing really poorly to shoot a 92, and I am an 8.

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But how many rounds do you play from 7000+ yds playing the ball down and putting everything out? Especially on courses set up for qualifiers. Tough pins and greens rolling 12-13. It makes a difference.

 

I'm not saying "George" is a legit + or he's not. But any day you are playing somewhere like that and you have a balky driver, its gonna go poorly. Hell imagine he hits drives OB on the 3rd and 4th hole. After that he knows his day is done. May as well keep hitting the driver lol

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Driver- Tmag 2017 M2 tour issue 8.5* actual loft 7.8* w/ Diamana Ahina 80X 44"
Fairway Metal- Tour Edge Exotics XCG7 Beta 3W 13* w/ Matrix 7m4 X 42.5"

Utility- Mizuno MPH5 1 iron w/ Aldila RIP 85X (depending on course/ conditions)

Irons- Mizuno MP-18 FLI HI 3i and 4i w/ KBS C-taper lite X
          Mizuno MP59 5i and 6I w/ PX 6.5

          Mizuno MP69 7i-PW w/ PX 6.5

Wedges- Scratch 8620 Driver/Slider set.  50*, 56* bent to 55* w/ rifle spinner shafts

                and Titleist Vokey 60* M grind

Putter- Never Compromise Dinero Mogul
Ball- Bridgestone Tour B XS

Bag- Ogio Aquatech Cart Bag

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I hate my handicap. Im an 8.5 but I feel Im closer to a 10-11.

 

The country club I work at is rated/sloped pretty high. After work, I usually go play a quick 9. I score around 40 +/- 1-2 strokes each time. The combined scoring gives me a better-combined round then I think I am capable of.

 

I usually play the back 9 because the holes are opposite direction of the setting sun. It is easier than the front so I can shoot say a 39. When I enter it, my combined score is a 78. There is no way in hell I can shoot a 39 on the front; more water, trickier shots etc... With the current system, it goes down as a 78 and my handicap goes down as well.

 

The answer would be to not report every score but Im pretty sure Id get shot if I didnt. The members are adamant about reporting scores. 

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Handicaps don't take a lot of things into account. I moved here six years ago I went from a 7 to a 4. The big reason why, there is no wind here, most days 2 to 3 mph. When I lived near the Great Lakes the wind blew 20 mph everyday. It makes a huge difference in club selection and ball flight.

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But how many rounds do you play from 7000+ yds playing the ball down and putting everything out? Especially on courses set up for qualifiers. Tough pins and greens rolling 12-13. It makes a difference.

 

I'm not saying "George" is a legit + or he's not. But any day you are playing somewhere like that and you have a balky driver, its gonna go poorly. Hell imagine he hits drives OB on the 3rd and 4th hole. After that he knows his day is done. May as well keep hitting the driver lol

 

 

... I remember when Michael Jordan was a 2 and played in his first tournament. He missed a 2 footer saying he never has to putt those. It got in his head and he missed several more very short putts. I will never understand reporting a score for your index with "gimmies" unless they are a few inches and a tap in when other players are on your line. Otherwise just tap it in. One thing I have learned is, unless you are playing on tour like pristine greens, you are gonna miss amazingly short putts every now and then. You hit an anomaly in the green, the cup has a raged edge or several other reasons along with simple brain cramp. 

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Driver:   TaylorMade SIM2 Max 10.5* ... Tensei Raw Blue 60R
Fairway:  TaylorMade SIM2 Max 15* ... Tensei Raw Blue 65R
                 Cobra SZ 18.5* ... Even Flow 75R
Utility:   TaylorMade DHy 19* ... Diamana Limited 65R
              Taylor Made RBZ Tour 21.5* ... Altus 85S
Irons:    4-Pw Cobra King Tour MIM ... Steelfiber 95R
Wedges:  Cobra Snakebite 50* ... Steelfiber 95R
                 Vokey SM8 58* ... Steelfiber 95R
Putter:  Cleveland Hunting Beach Soft 11S 33.5"
Ball:      TaylorMade TP5x (2021)

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I like that this thread has created a lot of thoughts from everyone.   :D

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