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Slow Play-Marshalling


griecot313

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I worked a long time in the golf industry. One thing I see severely lacking these days is good Marshalling. Here are some of my suggestions, feel free to add your own.

 

 

Guide to Good Marshalling

First and foremost, it starts at the Pro Shop. They need to tell groups what is expected of them: Less than 15 minutes per hole and keep up with the group in front of you.

Marshals should always carry; 4 little flags, extra balls and a tee sheet. When they see an open hole on the golf course, you don't just pull up and say “you're a hole behind, get moving” then pull away. They should say “I noticed a gap in front of you, I'll do my best to help you catch up but if you can't, you'll need to skip a hole”. Then stay with the group and help find errant balls (or give them one out of your basket), rake bunkers and possibly give yardages until they catch up. If they don't catch up, never let the group behind play through, that only slows down everything behind. Simply ask them to skip a hole. Yes, they will probably be offended, but would you rather offend 4 slow players or the 50 behind them that are getting more annoyed by the minute. If they refuse to skip a hole, I like to offer them a certificate for a free round another day. We never honored these certificates on the weekend or holidays when we are busy.

​Side Note, I would tell my Marshals that if they got caught picking up more golf balls then trash, they would be fired. I thought it was working until I found out that they would simply stop at a trash can on the course and put a bunch in their cart.

 

 

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There are right ways and wrong ways of encouraging a group to speed up.  A marshal who knows the game should know this, and the etiquette appropriate for the approach, the discussion and the follow-thru. 

 

You mentioned flags- our club has a flag system- Yellow flag means you are behind (out of position by at least one group).  The verbal advice comes first, the second is the yellow flag at the tee box.  The next (which amounts to the third warning) is the black flag, requiring the group to skip a hole to catch up.  Refusal to do this results in suspension from the club- whether or not you finish that round.  The marshal should know who is in each group (he/she has a tee sheet) and can figure out who is who, and where the problem is.  Clearly this is easier said in a private club than on a muni, but I have seen it work just as effectively on public courses.

 

As for approach, that is a very important part of the marshal's job.  We had a marshal approach my group as we were making the turn.  We were approaching the 10th green at 1 hour, 42 minutes from our tee time, so we were on a fairly good clip, having made the turn in just under 1.5 hours.  He came up in his cart- we were all walkers- and yells at us "you need to pick up the pace, there is a hole open in front of you!"  Now he was correct, there was a hole open in front of us, of the two groups that tee'd off in front of us on the first tee, the first was a threesome, moving pretty well, and the second was a twosome, who peeled off after 9. 

 

I immediately called the pro shop -both to let them know that the marshal was incorrect, but also of his attitude-  Had he come over and asked what time we tee'ed off, or bothered to ask who we were and looked on the sheet to see, he would have realized something had happened, and any of us could have explained that the group in front departed after 9, etc. 

 

That is why I mentioned attitude and experience as a golfer being a critical part of being a good marshal. 

 

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I once played a busy muni that had a time clock like you would see for work. We "clocked in" just before first tee ball flew, "clocked out" at the turn and "clocked out" again at the end. The course claimed they keep the time cards, and if you were more than 15-20 minutes over time two rounds in a row, you were not allowed to play for some period of time. It was a pretty hard core experience, but we moved at a pretty good clip. I don't know that that is really a good answer, but it was effective. I think all these things only get you so far if there aren't real consequences, whether marshalling or whatever. I know I get really sick of being being the slow people that don't seem to even walk with a sense of urgency between shots when they have to know they are off pace.

 

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My wife and I played at a course in St. George UT several years ago.  We were riding and we played with a local who was walking.  We played the front nine in 2.5 hours, mostly because of one hole; a par 3 over a gorge.  There were three groups on the tee at one time, so I thought 2.5 hours was a pretty good time.  The single was only going to play nine holes, but we had a great time together so he decided to play the back nine.

 

Most of the groups in front of us quit after nine holes, so we had clear sailing starting on 10.  About halfway down 10, the marshal comes up to us and says we have to pick up the pace... the men's gangsome is going to be teeing off behind us.  He dogged us for three holes.  I decided to slow down and play deliberately.  On a par 3 with an island green, he went behind the green to watch us tee off.  There was only one way in and out of the green area and I blocked him in with my cart, then proceeded to finish out the hole very slowly.  When we got to #14, we never saw him again.  BTW, we never saw the gangsome group either.

 

The local kept apologizing, saying he had never seen a marshal do that before.  I think it was because my wife was playing.  Marshals ALWAYS assume that women are the slow players in a group.  Even with my deliberately slow play, we finished the round in 4.5 hours, 30 minutes faster on the back.  My wife was so pissed, she went into the pro shop and complained to the head pro.  His position??  "Too bad.  You are a visitor here, tomorrow you are gone.  I have to keep the men's gangsome happy every day."  I won't be going back there ever again, so he was right about that.

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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I just don't get the idea of marshaling (I do but for arguments sake).

If someone is struggling and you tell them to hurry up it's not like the person is going to instantly become Dustin Johnson. I can't imagine a person is trying to be bad and slow play down.

I see this a lot on public courses especially. A ranger comes up, tells a group to speed up, and then the next thing we know the people are so nervous they're playing worse than when they were told to hurry up.

I just don't understand what a person is supposed to do, be so guilt ridden that they are playing slow that they should pick up and walk off the course.

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This weekend I had a noon tee time. Starter sends us to the tee a couple of Minutes early and we start to tee off. The last person is teeing of and it is right at noon and the starter walks over and tells us to pick up the pace because groups are waiting. Just amazing; sometimes you just have to wonder if the marshalls know how to identify and control slow play

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There is one rule to help avoid slow play, keep up with the group in front of you. Yes there are holes where we look for a ball or 2, but that's no excuse to fall behind. If you keep up with the group in front of you there will never be a problem. The biggest problem area for slow play is on the greens. There are to many people putting everything out. I've seen where a guy has a 1 foot putt on a Saturday fun day, and marks the ball and putts out. Why? We can invoke our own "rules" for play, and gimmes is a good way to help. If you are worried about the money at the end of the round, then you are playing for too much money in your group.

Lefties are always in their Right Mind

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There is one rule to help avoid slow play, keep up with the group in front of you. Yes there are holes where we look for a ball or 2, but that's no excuse to fall behind. If you keep up with the group in front of you there will never be a problem. The biggest problem area for slow play is on the greens. There are to many people putting everything out. I've seen where a guy has a 1 foot putt on a Saturday fun day, and marks the ball and putts out. Why? We can invoke our own "rules" for play, and gimmes is a good way to help. If you are worried about the money at the end of the round, then you are playing for too much money in your group.

 

Exactly and if they can't keep pace they should allow for players behind to play through. Another time saver is to set a limit of strokes say double or triple bogey and then pick up and move on.  No need to keep hacking away when people are standing in the fairway waiting to hit their approach shots. If you're learning and you want to count every single shot to see how you are progressing, allow faster groups through.

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There is one rule to help avoid slow play, keep up with the group in front of you. Yes there are holes where we look for a ball or 2, but that's no excuse to fall behind. If you keep up with the group in front of you there will never be a problem. The biggest problem area for slow play is on the greens. There are to many people putting everything out. I've seen where a guy has a 1 foot putt on a Saturday fun day, and marks the ball and putts out. Why? We can invoke our own "rules" for play, and gimmes is a good way to help. If you are worried about the money at the end of the round, then you are playing for too much money in your group.

If a member of my group lost a ball and I'm not too far ahead of them and the group isn't in our way, I will hit my shot then walk over and help look. And unless there is a decent break to the putt, if the course is crowded I'll just pick up 15" or so

 

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I have found that one of the most effective ways to gain on a group if a foursome has fallen behind is to have each player exit the green immediately upon finishing a hole, proceed to the next tee and tee off. By the time the last person holes out on the previous hole, at least two tee shots are already done on the next. This works really well with a walking foursome, not so well in a match... YMMV.

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I think there are lots of ways to catch up after falling behind, ready golf, pick up on the greens. If you maintain a GHIN or similar hcp, pick after reaching your max ESC. It doesn't mean you always have to, just do some of these things until you catch up. Looking for a ball can also take time, maybe if you are behind, you don't look for the ball, just take a drop and move along until you catch up. We're all out to have fun, but getting stuck behind slow play can be annoying and not fun. If we all do our part to keep up with the group in front, it makes for a more fun day for everyone.

Lefties are always in their Right Mind

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Maybe get rid of the crabby old man marshall and get someone who has a clue what they are doing.

 

What really gets me is when the group I'm in is walking and the group in front and behind us are in carts. Of course they are going to be faster. I laugh when ranger rick tells us to hurry up. What does he expect us to do, run between shots?

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There is one rule to help avoid slow play, keep up with the group in front of you. Yes there are holes where we look for a ball or 2, but that's no excuse to fall behind. If you keep up with the group in front of you there will never be a problem. The biggest problem area for slow play is on the greens. There are to many people putting everything out. I've seen where a guy has a 1 foot putt on a Saturday fun day, and marks the ball and putts out. Why? We can invoke our own "rules" for play, and gimmes is a good way to help. If you are worried about the money at the end of the round, then you are playing for too much money in your group.

In my weekly walking group there is one guy that putts everything out, and he does the same routine for every putt, even short ones.  He is deliberate, and he makes most putts less than 5 feet.  Whenever he putts a long one and leaves a putt that's less than a couple of feet, I will knock it back to him, saying it's good.  I know he gets a little perturbed when I do that, but it saves 30 seconds every time I do it.

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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In my weekly walking group there is one guy that putts everything out, and he does the same routine for every putt, even short ones. He is deliberate, and he makes most putts less than 5 feet. Whenever he putts a long one and leaves a putt that's less than a couple of feet, I will knock it back to him, saying it's good. I know he gets a little perturbed when I do that, but it saves 30 seconds every time I do it.

Exactly. You almost have to force them to pick the ball up. Unless it's a touney round or something like that gimmes should almost always be done. Especially on days where the course is full. The bad thing is that they don't see that they are he cause of the slow play.

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Reading this provides and interesting dilemma. People are advocating picking up "gimmie" putts. But then post about a persons handicap not being accurate. Do you post your rounds with gimmie putts as a handicap round?

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Looking for balls and putting out putts is seldom the culprit that causes slow play. The muni I play each week is one of the busiest in the country and only foursomes are allowed to play most days (especially Fri-Sun).

 

The biggest cause of slow play is people who wait for each person to hit rather than going to their ball and getting ready. Ready golf us important to pace of play. Those groups who cluster all four around each shot cause huge delays.

 

Our rangers consult clock and chart for each group as they drive around.

 

Another huge time sink is waiting for the guy hacking through the rough until the next guy is away. Get to your ball and play unless its directly in someones shot line.

 

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Slow play is a tough thing to fix. Everyday at our course we have a few groups that are really slow. If you find yourself behind them you know you're in for a long day. They play golf like sheep, all of them go to each ball instead of their own. On the greens they don't check out their own putt until it is their turn. Problem is everyone knows this including the marshals yet nothing is ever said. It's a sad state of affairs but what can you do when nobody seems to care.

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Maybe get rid of the crabby old man marshall and get someone who has a clue what they are doing.

 

What really gets me is when the group I'm in is walking and the group in front and behind us are in carts. Of course they are going to be faster. I laugh when ranger rick tells us to hurry up. What does he expect us to do, run between shots?

I've actually let a couple walking, play through when I was with a group. We were using carts, as one of us has health issues and can't walk. We never caught them. I was impressed.

 

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Reading this provides and interesting dilemma. People are advocating picking up "gimmie" putts. But then post about a persons handicap not being accurate. Do you post your rounds with gimmie putts as a handicap round?

We are talking about slow play, and ways to speed it up, I'm all for putting out, but when your routine is 2 minutes long even on a 1 foot putt, you have added 36 needless minutes to your round and Everyone else's round. Yes we post rounds with gimme putts. it actually hurts your cap, its anti-Sandbagging.

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Looking for balls and putting out putts is seldom the culprit that causes slow play. The muni I play each week is one of the busiest in the country and only foursomes are allowed to play most days (especially Fri-Sun).

 

The biggest cause of slow play is people who wait for each person to hit rather than going to their ball and getting ready. Ready golf us important to pace of play. Those groups who cluster all four around each shot cause huge delays.

 

Our rangers consult clock and chart for each group as they drive around.

 

Another huge time sink is waiting for the guy hacking through the rough until the next guy is away. Get to your ball and play unless its directly in someones shot line.

 

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I think in some cases your right, but my experience here is that play comes to a standstill on the green, that's where the time is lost when we play.

Lefties are always in their Right Mind

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I think in some cases your right, but my experience here is that play comes to a standstill on the green, that's where the time is lost when we play.

I agree with this.  Last weekend I was playing a qualifier for the club championship where we had a foursome on insanely fast greens with crazy pin positions putting everything out on every hole.  We played so slowly, and we were playing ready golf in carts.  We played so slowly that a foursome walking behind us (also part of the qualifier), caught us, and we started to hold up the course.  The marshall told us we had to split up into two twosomes, and after that, all four of us probably cut our round down by 40 minutes, and my group, who was part of the second twosome after the split up finished over 30 minutes ahead of the walking foursome.  This was all because our time on the greens had been cut down in half: it is a lot easier to put out 2 2-4 footers as a twosome than 4 2-4 footers as a foursome.  These putts were holding up the course.  

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We are talking about slow play, and ways to speed it up, I'm all for putting out, but when your routine is 2 minutes long even on a 1 foot putt, you have added 36 needless minutes to your round and Everyone else's round. Yes we post rounds with gimme putts. it actually hurts your cap, its anti-Sandbagging.

 

I understand we are talking about how to speed up slow play.  The long routines do add up over time as does the lack of ready play and people in carts not dropping a player off at their ball while they are waiting on the group in front of them.  I think that the patrolling of members is often an issue since marshall's don't want to create an issue for the club.   I think the bottom line is that the people that play slow don't care that they place slow or what the marshall says.   People complain, courses say they understand, but nothing will ever be done.  

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Reading this provides and interesting dilemma. People are advocating picking up "gimmie" putts. But then post about a persons handicap not being accurate. Do you post your rounds with gimmie putts as a handicap round?

In the case I mentioned, no for the other guys.  All of the guys I walk with during the week are 74 and older.  They don't keep score so they don't post.  I keep score and do post, but I putt out except if someone gives me a tap-in when they are holding the flag.  I take it.  The slow guy in my group doesn't change his routine for any putt, and I will let him putt out unless we are behind.

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I think the best way to speed up play might be to incentivize it! What if say, the greens fee is $50 on a Sunday but if you finish your round in under 4 hours and turn in you time stamped score card, you would get $10 back or maybe a free drink at the bar. Have the marshal remind everyone of the reward for fast play, maybe put up a sign or two and I think people would get a lot more motivated to play quickly! For one, they would actually be thinking about the time it takes to play a hole. In general, I think slow, weekend golfers just don't pay attention to time, drink too much and are oblivious. Dangle a carrot, make them think about time and we'll all be playing fast!

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I think the best way to speed up play might be to incentivize it! What if say, the greens fee is $50 on a Sunday but if you finish your round in under 4 hours and turn in you time stamped score card, you would get $10 back or maybe a free drink at the bar.

Interesting idea but execution would be difficult. How do you handle people behind a slow group that would play in 4 but don't because of slow play in front of them?

 

To really fix a problem you have to identify the root cause. In some cases it is inconsiderate players, in some it is just related to some people not moving as fast when they are leaving greens or walking back to their carts. How about the delays when the beverage cart arrives. I think we can even blame the course designer where courses have drivable par 4s and reachable par 5s. I know courses I play repeatedly seem to always back up at the same place. Since there really isn't a single root cause it will be hard to cover every scenario

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There is a fine line of marshaling and just being a crabby old jerk.  

 

I am not a bad/slow golfer by any means, however I will hit an errant shot occasionally that takes some time to find my ball, and it never fails that's the same hole my partner(s) hit errant shots, if each of us take 3-5 minutes to find a tee shot, we're now the "slow" group, so the hole ahead may open up. When a marshal gets on me for that, I start rushing and play worse, which slows me down more because I'm hitting more shots.

 

Now on the other hand I've been behind groups were they are hitting 2-3 balls per shot, lollygagging to get to the ball, taking 10 practice swings and the marshal doenst say anything. After a rain delay and more rain in the radar, we had a group on a muni course playing like it was for the PGA Championship, marking every ball on the green (I'm talking less than an inch away from the hole) instead of just knocking it in and finishing, again no marshal. 

Driver  :ping-small: G425 9* Hzrdus Smoke Green Small batch 6.5 70g

Fairway Wood:   image.jpeg.b9b42744cb10f0524500549b74545dd7.jpegCobra Radspeed Big 3 Hzrdus Smoke Black 6.5

Hybrid:  image.jpeg.c5ec9f74aa563ad0246ab686b1c35eeb.jpegCobra Aerojet 5 Wood Hzrdus Smoke Black 6.5

Irons:     :titelist-small: T200 (4-AW) AMT Black Stiff Shafts 

Wedges:  :cleveland-small: Tour Rack 56* 60*

Putter:   :cameron-small: Scotty Cameron Golo 5

Right Handed 

Pittsburgh, PA

 

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In the case I mentioned, no for the other guys. All of the guys I walk with during the week are 74 and older. They don't keep score so they don't post. I keep score and do post, but I putt out except if someone gives me a tap-in when they are holding the flag. I take it. The slow guy in my group doesn't change his routine for any putt, and I will let him putt out unless we are behind.

I think that's the key, putting out isn't so much the issue, it's putting everything out when you are behind that causes some issues. It's not all the issue, but it is part of it. Ready golf is a must, I am a fast player so I am usually ready to go as soon as the other guys makes contact. Our rule that we try to adhere to is to just keep up with the group in front of you, there are times where we may fall behind by a shot or so, but realizing it and then picking up play for a short time usually closes the gap. I am also talking foursomes, I don't expect a 4-some to keep up with 3 or 2-somes. Marshals typically at our course seem to try, but management will only allow them to so much, as anything more will potentially cost the course revenue.

Lefties are always in their Right Mind

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I think that's the key, putting out isn't so much the issue, it's putting everything out when you are behind that causes some issues. It's not all the issue, but it is part of it. Ready golf is a must, I am a fast player so I am usually ready to go as soon as the other guys makes contact. Our rule that we try to adhere to is to just keep up with the group in front of you, there are times where we may fall behind by a shot or so, but realizing it and then picking up play for a short time usually closes the gap. I am also talking foursomes, I don't expect a 4-some to keep up with 3 or 2-somes. Marshals typically at our course seem to try, but management will only allow them to so much, as anything more will potentially cost the course revenue.

Yes, it's all about management and how they want to control the course.  At my muni, management will complain about slow play and we have marshals out on Friday and Saturday (busiest days), but they just drive by groups like their presence will speed things up.  Management sets the tee times; 8 minutes apart, too short but it packs the course, which they like.  

 

And as @cnosil points out, the course design is a contributor to slow play.  The first two holes at my muni are short par 4's and the third hole is the hardest hole on the course with a hazard running all the way down the left side and in front of the green and large mounds of rough down the right.  There is a sign on the #1 tee saying not to tee off until the flag is pulled on the green.  That's to slow players up a little because groups get stacked on the #3 tee.  I have seen 5 groups on the #3 hole, also a par 4.  Play speeds up starting with #4.  The marshal will never come to the first 4 holes because they know play is backed up and there is nothing they can do about it.  I usually play early to mid morning when better players play.  Starting late morning and early afternoon, lot's of balls are in the water on #3 with people fishing.  

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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The thing that I really dislike are the courses that think it's ok to have a 7 minute tee time split. Regardless of how slow people play on the course, jamming as many people as possible onto the course up front isn't helping any. So many times I've been on courses like this, played a 5 - 6 hour round, but there is never anywhere to go, every group is waiting on someone else. Could there be one slow group 7 holes up causing the jam? It's possible, but I lay more blame with the courses for slow play when they have 7 minute splits. I really wish courses would get away from this and get back to a minimum of 10 minutes between tee times... I avoid courses with short tee time splits like the plague now!

In the Sun Mountain 4.5LS 14-way bag:
Driver: :taylormade-small: M2 10.5° :: Accra FX260
Fairway: :taylormade-small: M5 19° :: Fujikura ATMOS Tour Spec 7X Blue
Hybrid: :titelist-small: TS2 21° :: Mitsubishi Black 80G50
Irons:  :taylormade-small: P790 (5-AW) :: KBS Tour 110
Sand Wedge: :cleveland-small: CBX-2 54° :: KBS Tour 110
Lob Wedge: :cleveland-small: RTX-3 58° :: TT Dynamic Gold
Putter: :cameron-small: Phantom X 5.5
Ball: :titelist-small: AVX
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Interesting idea but execution would be difficult. How do you handle people behind a slow group that would play in 4 but don't because of slow play in front of them?

 

To really fix a problem you have to identify the root cause. In some cases it is inconsiderate players, in some it is just related to some people not moving as fast when they are leaving greens or walking back to their carts. How about the delays when the beverage cart arrives. I think we can even blame the course designer where courses have drivable par 4s and reachable par 5s. I know courses I play repeatedly seem to always back up at the same place. Since there really isn't a single root cause it will be hard to cover every scenario

 

Well, the idea is that the four in front of them would be more aware of the time and more likely to play quickly as well. If it's stacked, it's stacked, nothing you can do but you can change the culture of players on the course through incentives.

Driver:  :ping-small:  G 10.5* W/Tour Stiff 65g Ping Shaft   

Fairway Woods:  :cobra-small:  Cobra F6 13.5*, F6 Baffler 16*  

Irons: Split Set-  :ping-small: i200 3i - 7i ,  :benhogan-small: Ft Worth 15s, 8 (36), 9 (40), PW (44) 

Wedges: :benhogan-small:  TK, 52* & 56*

Putter:  :ping-small: Sigma G Kushin 

Bag:  :ping-small: Hoofer 5way

Balls:  :taylormade-small: TP5/X

 

 

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