Slow Play-Marshalling

[Kor.A.Door]

it really does come down to each person doing there part. If someone wants to play slow they play slow, and don't care about falling behind even after the marshal says something. The issue with slow players is that they don't think they are slow. I play golf with a guy that is really slow, takes a setup, then 2 full practice swings, then steps away, resets, takes another full practice swing, then steps up and takes forever to set then hits the ball, and his green routine is t any better, now in the same amount of time he took to take one shot, I could have hit the ball 3 times, including driving to the ball after each hit. He will tell you he doesn't play slow, but he is by far the slowest one in our entire group. And yes we have talked to him about his slow play .

[Mr.keyman1808]

I've played in slow groups before and mainly it's one or two people having a bad round. (Lost balls and searching mainly) but what really annoys me is if someone in my group is not ready to hit when it's their turn. I play with guys who have a whole routine before a shot and they don't even have a club ready when it's their turn.

 

 

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[Mr.keyman1808]

The thing that I really dislike are the courses that think it's ok to have a 7 minute tee time split. Regardless of how slow people play on the course, jamming as many people as possible onto the course up front isn't helping any. So many times I've been on courses like this, played a 5 - 6 hour round, but there is never anywhere to go, every group is waiting on someone else. Could there be one slow group 7 holes up causing the jam? It's possible, but I lay more blame with the courses for slow play when they have 7 minute splits. I really wish courses would get away from this and get back to a minimum of 10 minutes between tee times... I avoid courses with short tee time splits like the plague now!

my course has 9 minute splits and we still back up. I get it's a business but you need some Leeway. We aren't pros out there. Even if we are pros they play twosomes and still take 5 hours to play.

 

 

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[Mr.keyman1808]

Looking for balls and putting out putts is seldom the culprit that causes slow play. The muni I play each week is one of the busiest in the country and only foursomes are allowed to play most days (especially Fri-Sun).

 

The biggest cause of slow play is people who wait for each person to hit rather than going to their ball and getting ready. Ready golf us important to pace of play. Those groups who cluster all four around each shot cause huge delays.

 

Our rangers consult clock and chart for each group as they drive around.

 

Another huge time sink is waiting for the guy hacking through the rough until the next guy is away. Get to your ball and play unless its directly in someones shot line.

 

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preach it brother

 

 

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[Brian A]

We are talking about slow play, and ways to speed it up, I'm all for putting out, but when your routine is 2 minutes long even on a 1 foot putt, you have added 36 needless minutes to your round and Everyone else's round. Yes we post rounds with gimme putts. it actually hurts your cap, its anti-Sandbagging.

 

I agree on not making it a "gimme" but theres no need to mark a ball that you can literally just tap in with a fart. When 4 people mark a putt thats less than 1/2 inch away and reread the green its a problem

[revkev]

Reading this provides and interesting dilemma. People are advocating picking up "gimmie" putts. But then post about a persons handicap not being accurate. Do you post your rounds with gimmie putts as a handicap round?

Actually the handicap system allows for concessions or gimmes. You are supposed to record the score that you would have expected to make on the hole.

 

The system recognizes that people won't always play every stroke out. In fact it tells the player not to count every stroke when submitting his score by limiting highest allowable score on a hole based on handicap.

 

 

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[Chris O.]

My wife and I played at a course in St. George UT several years ago. We were riding and we played with a local who was walking. We played the front nine in 2.5 hours, mostly because of one hole; a par 3 over a gorge. There were three groups on the tee at one time, so I thought 2.5 hours was a pretty good time. The single was only going to play nine holes, but we had a great time together so he decided to play the back nine.

 

Most of the groups in front of us quit after nine holes, so we had clear sailing starting on 10. About halfway down 10, the marshal comes up to us and says we have to pick up the pace... the men's gangsome is going to be teeing off behind us. He dogged us for three holes. I decided to slow down and play deliberately. On a par 3 with an island green, he went behind the green to watch us tee off. There was only one way in and out of the green area and I blocked him in with my cart, then proceeded to finish out the hole very slowly. When we got to #14, we never saw him again. BTW, we never saw the gangsome group either.

 

The local kept apologizing, saying he had never seen a marshal do that before. I think it was because my wife was playing. Marshals ALWAYS assume that women are the slow players in a group. Even with my deliberately slow play, we finished the round in 4.5 hours, 30 minutes faster on the back. My wife was so pissed, she went into the pro shop and complained to the head pro. His position?? "Too bad. You are a visitor here, tomorrow you are gone. I have to keep the men's gangsome happy every day." I won't be going back there ever again, so he was right about that.

Was that at Sunbrook?

 

 

 

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[Kenny B]

Was that at Sunbrook?

 

 

 

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No.  We stayed at a condo at Sunbrook and played all 3 nines.  Not bad.  Lots of elevation change.

 

The course I was talking about is Green Springs, I think.  Does this picture of the par 3 hole over the canyon on the front nine look familiar?

 

 

This is where we waited for over 20 minutes for that group on the green and 2 more groups to tee off before we got to tee off.  I believe the next hole is a par 4 that runs along this canyon on the right and the canyon crosses in front of the green.  

[Chris O.]

No. We stayed at a condo at Sunbrook and played all 3 nines. Not bad. Lots of elevation change.

 

The course I was talking about is Green Springs, I think. Does this picture of the par 3 hole over the canyon on the front nine look familiar?

 

DSCF0051.JPG

 

This is where we waited for over 20 minutes for that group on the green and 2 more groups to tee off before we got to tee off. I believe the next hole is a par 4 that runs along this canyon on the right and the canyon crosses in front of the green.

Yes it is all familiar. Funny thing is, this is where I played in the tournament yesterday! A lot has changed the last few years at Green Spring. They have gone through some rough times because of how they have treated people. I think they are finally turning it around though. The tournament was well put together and went smoothly. Hopefully they are treating everyone better. I stoped playing there after a few of my run ins with them and I'm a local, just not retired like 85% of the golfers here.

 

 

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[Kor.A.Door]

We had an issue with this very subject on Saturday, our last group fell waaaay behind, so we got on them a bit, we had 6 groups, they were 45 minutes behind the 5th group, approx. 3 full holes behind. They took 5 hours to play. Hopefully they realize that this can't happen going forward. They are good guys, I think they just got to talking a bit too much and didn't really pay attention to time.

[Kenny B]

We had an issue with this topic on Saturday.  My wife and I were playing with two guys that are members and usually play in the men's gangsome.  Nice guys.  What we didn't know was that we were the first group off after a 6 group class reunion scramble.  Saturdays are usually slow, but this was reeeeaaaaly slow.  We waited on every shot.  The marshal finally showed up and talked to the group that was two groups in front of us on #7.  Too late.  We called it quits on hole #6, a par 5, when the group in front of us were waiting in the fairway for that group in front of them on the green.  However, they were waiting approximately 180 yards off the tee.  It's a scramble, and that was the best drive???  And they are waiting to hit a 320 yard 2nd shot???

 

We finished #6 because the green is near the clubhouse and drove the cart to the car.  Those 6 holes took 2 hours.  I didn't really care that we quit because I was +6, but my wife was +3, which was the best she has ever shot on those six holes.  We came back later in the afternoon; started over again.  Played nine in 1 hour and 45 minutes, but my wife shot +9; however, since we were playing at a nice pace, I shot +2.  She was pissed.

[StrokerAce]

6 hours to play a round on the PGA tour is absurd... I get the fact that these guys are out here doing this for a living so every shot matters but c'mon... 

 

JB Holmes kinda apologized... I suppose.  If it's going to take this long then they need to start the final round earlier.  Would have been nice to see the tourney last week finish on Sunday - even with the playoff. Really think Noren would have won it had it not gone to Monday.  He was in a good rhythm and hitting it well.

 

This is Holmes "apology" - http://www.golfchannel.com/article/golf-central-blog/rosaforte-report-holmes-apologizes-and-defends-self/

 

I suppose we can get a sense of the wind on television but waiting for it to "die down" before you hit a shot is not a good reason to take 4+ minutes...

 

“I didn't realize how long it was taking,” he said. “We (Holmes and caddie Brendan Parsons) were just trying to make the best decision to play.”

In other words, Holmes was waiting for the gusts to die down, so he could take the head cover off a 5-wood he didn't trust, and play a shot to the green. Ultimately, he hit a poor wedge shot and made par to finish fourth.

[KCLeo12]

Anything over 5 hours is to long. I don't get upset at anything under 5 hours. I cant stand why the speed changes. Your backed up and then you get in a good flow and then it gets backed up again.

[StrokerAce]

Anything over 5 hours is to long. I don't get upset at anything under 5 hours. I cant stand why the speed changes. Your backed up and then you get in a good flow and then it gets backed up again.

 

I suppose there must be a correlation between your tee time and length of round as well as day of week.

 

It can be tricky - during the week might get caught up with league play, weekend early might get caught up as well.

[JAGolfore]

Anything over 5 hours is to long. I don't get upset at anything under 5 hours. I cant stand why the speed changes. Your backed up and then you get in a good flow and then it gets backed up again.

I think especially in non tournament rounds you get people telling stories and just generally enjoying themselves as the reason you see some get behind.

 

In tournaments I find looking for golf balls is the main reason or the dreaded walk back to the tee.

 

 

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[Charli]

There comes a point where the ranger just has to say pick up your ball and move on. It also doesn't help here in Jersey it feels like tee times are scheduled 5 minutes apart. Reasons why I joined a club at least I get to play through. For some reason at public courses they seem to get offended with letting people play through

[Bags]

I worked a long time in the golf industry. One thing I see severely lacking these days is good Marshalling. Here are some of my suggestions, feel free to add your own.

 

 

Guide to Good Marshalling

First and foremost, it starts at the Pro Shop. They need to tell groups what is expected of them: Less than 15 minutes per hole and keep up with the group in front of you.

Marshals should always carry; 4 little flags, extra balls and a tee sheet. When they see an open hole on the golf course, you don't just pull up and say “you're a hole behind, get moving” then pull away. They should say “I noticed a gap in front of you, I'll do my best to help you catch up but if you can't, you'll need to skip a hole”. Then stay with the group and help find errant balls (or give them one out of your basket), rake bunkers and possibly give yardages until they catch up. If they don't catch up, never let the group behind play through, that only slows down everything behind. Simply ask them to skip a hole. Yes, they will probably be offended, but would you rather offend 4 slow players or the 50 behind them that are getting more annoyed by the minute. If they refuse to skip a hole, I like to offer them a certificate for a free round another day. We never honored these certificates on the weekend or holidays when we are busy.

​Side Note, I would tell my Marshals that if they got caught picking up more golf balls then trash, they would be fired. I thought it was working until I found out that they would simply stop at a trash can on the course and put a bunch in their cart.

I play fast but asking to skip a hole lol fun times - I bet your not on their short list for a Christmas card lol

 

 

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[pulledabill]

I look at many marshalls the same way I look at the range master at my gun club. Power trip of sorts and quick to point out all the wrong doings instead of building positive relations along the way. Of course this is very generalized and taken from my experiences. A little tact goes a long ways. Take the time to educate instead of chastising.

 

A marshall at a course I find deals on loves to eyeball you if a non-member. The times I get discount on are right after 3 foursomes of members. One group all walks. Another all rides. The 3rd is split. We get chastised for taking a few minutes to find a ball when the members in front of us are the ones holding up the whole shabang. Ive really had not resort back to okd anger issues and rip into him.

 

But all in all lotd of great info to keep pace of play. I try to avoid courses or at least certain times on particular courses because life is too short for 6 hour rounds and my blood pressure wont take it.

[gaussman1]

I think especially in non tournament rounds you get people telling stories and just generally enjoying themselves as the reason you see some get behind.

 

In tournaments I find looking for golf balls is the main reason or the dreaded walk back to the tee.

 

 

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The dreaded walk back kills me. Players are hugely resistant to hitting a provisional for some reason

[JAGolfore]

The dreaded walk back kills me. Players are hugely resistant to hitting a provisional for some reason

A provisional is a very under used rule. If the crowds were not big on tour you would see a lot more of it. We encourage it when we play on the weekends. It saves you at least 5 mins and you get essentially a practice swing if your first is playable.

 

 

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[Kor.A.Door]

A provisional is a very under used rule. If the crowds were not big on tour you would see a lot more of it. We encourage it when we play on the weekends. It saves you at least 5 mins and you get essentially a practice swing if your first is playable.

 

 

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Anytime we think there is a question as to whether a ball is OB we just hit another one. Saves a bunch of time. For the weekend golfer, the provisional rule should be used more, and should be used in a more relaxed definition as well. Our course plays all woods as Red stake. THe only OB is in the back yards of houses. They only come into play a 3 holes. Our sister course has many more opportunities for OB. Just play a provisional and move forward.

[Rickp]

I checked today our tee time splits. Exec courses 10 minutes, Championship courses 8 minutes. We always play in the early mornings and not usually any problems. Afternoons sometimes some problems. The thing we have to remember is the course only moves and the speed of the slowest group. Keep them moving and problems are minimal.

 

Edit; played this morning 3:50 and we have one guy just getting over radiation treatments.

 

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