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#1 cnosil

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 02:59 PM

Read a Twitter post this morning from and thought it would make an interesting topic.

The tweet: GOLF FACT: Most putters have zero technology in them that help golfers shoot lower scores.

While the tweet is about putters does the same thought apply to all clubs? Is technology biased based on handicap since research seems to indicate there has not been significant improvement in golfer scores over time? Does the same technology have to benefit everyone to be considered successful?

Driver:  :srixon-small: Z355 10.5* w/Miyazaki Jinsoku
Fairway: touredge.jpgXCG7 Beta 15* w/Fujikura Fuel
Hybrid:  :titelist-small: 816h1 19* set at 18* w/Diamana Blue

Hybrid:  :titelist-small: 915h 21* w/Diamana Blue

Irons:  :callaway-small:  X Hot Pro 5-AW w/Projct X Rifle 6.0

Wedge:  :titelist-small: SM 54-08,  :cleveland-small: 588 58-12
Putter:    :taylormade-small:  TM-180

 

Soon to be testing the KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype shaft. 


#2 STUDque

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 03:20 PM

Well at the same time, didn't the courses get longer and harder to compensate? I know that's definitely the case on tour.

As far as the average Joe is concerned, no matter what technology you give them, their scores will always be limited by the time they are able to put into the game.


Technology can only bring you so far. You've still got to have touch, solid decision making, and a repeatable swing/stroke to shoot lower.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

What's in the bag?

 

Driver: Titleist 915 D3 (Aldila Rogue Silver X)

Wood: Ping i25 (stock x-flex)

Irons: TaylorMade Tour Preferred MC (+.5" / up 2* / stiff / mid grip)

Wedges: Titleist Vokey 52,56,60

Putter: STX SS6

Cart: Cliqgear 3.5+ (walk almost every round)

 


#3 Kenny B

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 03:22 PM

Golf is hard.  If people are looking for technology to help them improve, I don't think they are going to find it.  You still need to practice; that's why golfer's scores haven't improved... they don't practice any more than they used to. 

 

I actually don't agree that putters have zero technology in them to help shoot lower scores.  I have only been playing for 26 years, and when I started, putters weren't very tech-oriented.  In the last 10 years I have seen lots of changes; face-inserts, mallets, face-balanced, high MOI, even different colors seem to have some impact.  But it's like the rest of the game; if you don't practice any more than you used to, you won't shoot lower scores.  



#4 PlaidJacket

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 04:08 PM

I'd like to see a study of distance claims made by the major mfg's. As we all know with each new club - drivers in particular are longer than the one before it -  6 weeks ago. For example... let's go back to when Tmag came out with a metal driver and work forward. I'm sure at that time the club produced more distance. Same with Callaway and their original Great Big Bertha. Just this year for example Callaway claims 15 more yards with the Epic. (I'm not seeing with the guys I play with.)

So, 25 years ago what was the average distance of a driver? If we were to take the claims of the Mfg's and add all the distance they say they're giving us shouldn't we all be knocking it over the clubhouse on 18 by now?


My  :wilson_staff_small:  bag currently includes:    TWGT 771CSI 4i - PW and TWGT PFC Micro Tour-c 52°, 56°, 60 wedges

                                                                               TM SLDR 14° D, TWGT 929-HS FW4 16.5* 

                                                                                Edel Willimette w/SuperStroke Slim

 

 

 

 

 

 


#5 cnosil

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 04:17 PM

In the last 10 years I have seen lots of changes; face-inserts, mallets, face-balanced, high MOI, even different colors seem to have some impact.


How is Face balance a technology and how does it make you score lower?

When I think about putting there are a few skills that have to be in place: Read, aim, stroke, and speed.

No club technology will help you read a putt. I believe design will help with consistent /optimal stroke but there really isn't a tech thing to help your stroke. Assisting a persons Aim is something that you might be able to start considering things like alignment aids or putter color. Speed is something since a face cane be designed to minimize speed loss on off center hits.

Is seemores RST a tech thing? It helps aim, but forces you to use the putter in a specific way. How about MLAs aim approach? Does Grace's HSM, pings TR face, or Guerin's face really provide significant improvement on helping speed on off center putts? Is any other groove technology just marketing?

Or is tech in putters useless and you just need to practice more.

How about irons? What tech improvements have been made there? Is moving weight a technology thing?

Driver:  :srixon-small: Z355 10.5* w/Miyazaki Jinsoku
Fairway: touredge.jpgXCG7 Beta 15* w/Fujikura Fuel
Hybrid:  :titelist-small: 816h1 19* set at 18* w/Diamana Blue

Hybrid:  :titelist-small: 915h 21* w/Diamana Blue

Irons:  :callaway-small:  X Hot Pro 5-AW w/Projct X Rifle 6.0

Wedge:  :titelist-small: SM 54-08,  :cleveland-small: 588 58-12
Putter:    :taylormade-small:  TM-180

 

Soon to be testing the KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype shaft. 


#6 cnosil

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 04:22 PM

I
So, 25 years ago what was the average distance of a driver? If we were to take the claims of the Mfg's and add all the distance they say they're giving us shouldn't we all be knocking it over the clubhouse on 18 by now?


MGS did a test that showed older drivers don't hit the ball as far as newer. I thing it was the super quad vs the M1. Also reading the manufacturer fine print you will see the distance claims are against older clubs and nit the previous years.

But you other point is still valid your playing partners aren't seeing improvement so does tech really make you play better? All indications seem to point to No.

Driver:  :srixon-small: Z355 10.5* w/Miyazaki Jinsoku
Fairway: touredge.jpgXCG7 Beta 15* w/Fujikura Fuel
Hybrid:  :titelist-small: 816h1 19* set at 18* w/Diamana Blue

Hybrid:  :titelist-small: 915h 21* w/Diamana Blue

Irons:  :callaway-small:  X Hot Pro 5-AW w/Projct X Rifle 6.0

Wedge:  :titelist-small: SM 54-08,  :cleveland-small: 588 58-12
Putter:    :taylormade-small:  TM-180

 

Soon to be testing the KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype shaft. 


#7 PlaidJacket

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 04:25 PM

I think some of the tech does help. I joke around all the time on a mis-hit drive, "thank goodness for a 460cc head otherwise I'd have whiffed."


My  :wilson_staff_small:  bag currently includes:    TWGT 771CSI 4i - PW and TWGT PFC Micro Tour-c 52°, 56°, 60 wedges

                                                                               TM SLDR 14° D, TWGT 929-HS FW4 16.5* 

                                                                                Edel Willimette w/SuperStroke Slim

 

 

 

 

 

 


#8 Kenny B

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 04:40 PM

How is Face balance a technology and how does it make you score lower?

When I think about putting there are a few skills that have to be in place: Read, aim, stroke, and speed.

No club technology will help you read a putt. I believe design will help with consistent /optimal stroke but there really isn't a tech thing to help your stroke. Assisting a persons Aim is something that you might be able to start considering things like alignment aids or putter color. Speed is something since a face cane be designed to minimize speed loss on off center hits.

Is seemores RST a tech thing? It helps aim, but forces you to use the putter in a specific way. How about MLAs aim approach? Does Grace's HSM, pings TR face, or Guerin's face really provide significant improvement on helping speed on off center putts? Is any other groove technology just marketing?

Or is tech in putters useless and you just need to practice more.

How about irons? What tech improvements have been made there? Is moving weight a technology thing?

I agree that no club technology will help read a putt, unless you have Al Czervik's putter given to him by Einstein (he made a fortune in physics!).  

 

I don't remember that face-balanced putters were available much back around early 1990's.  Maybe others could enlighten me on that subject.  So, I'm including face-balancing as a technology design feature to assist certain people make a consistent stroke.  If you don't want to include it as technology, I'm OK with that.  However, I think face-balanced putters have been an essential feature in putter development.  It seems the trend on all tours right now.

 

I also think there is something to the recent face changes for off center hits, however I also think that people have to practice with it in order to take advantage of that design feature.  If you don't have a good feel for speed and distance already, the technology of face design isn't going to help all that much.  I have only had the Ping Sigma G Doon in my bag for a little over a week, but I can tell that it fits my stroke nicely, I have less tendency to miss shorter putts left or right, and after quite a bit of practice, I am getting consistent distance on longer putts.  I know I'm not hitting the sweet spot consistently; how can I?  I don't look at the ball when I putt!!



#9 TxRedMan

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 05:31 PM

I just had a guy walk in with an epic project X hazardous and a ping G 400 Alta CB and he wanted me to put the project X in the ping and the other in the epic.

Yes, I am a Golf Professional. No, I don't know how to do that.

That's the difference between running the driving range dressed nice (today) vs. wearing a non matching belt/shoe combo. At least in N.E. Dallas.

Cool guy, but I'm looking at that and thinking nah nah no way I'm not wrecking the letters and numbers and shapes between that ferule and club head.

On a sidenote I've got a full line, city championship is here tomorrow and I've already seen one epic bust completely at the crown which really sucked for the guy that brought it in and undoubtedly the person at golf galaxy who sold it to him, but I did get to see the jailbreak technology.

#fridaysnormalsaturdaylol


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

#10 Jmikecpa

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 07:25 PM

Technology absolutely can help you shoot lower scores.  I was a +3 in college with Ping Eye 2s and a 5.5* driver....imagine if I had the fitting and shafts as well as a 460cc driver head?  Back then your choices were steel shaft or graphite shaft and flex with not really much else to choose.  

 

There was a huge jump from wood to metal then metal to titanium and then the club head size.  Not to mention what has happened to the ball.  If you can fine a balata ball or a wound ball in decent shape take it out on the course and play with it, you will really see how you can work a ball with either of those. The ProV1 was a revolution in the ball industry and killed the older wound balls.  Also avoided having to carry a gauge to measure if a ball went out of round.  

 

As far as putters goes there is tech, but to me the main advancement in putter tech is fitting.  True that you still need to strike the ball and read the green correctly, but having a properly fit flatstick takes some of the variables out of the equation which at the end of the day is the key to shooting a good score....control as much as you can.


In the Bag

:callaway-small: Epic Sub Zero 9* AD DI 7x

:callaway-small: Epic Sub Zero 15* AD GT 8x

:callaway-small: Epic 20* Recoil 780 F5

:benhogan-small: Ft. Worth 15 Hi 22*,26* & 30* UST Recoil 110 F5

:benhogan-small: Ft. Worth 15 34* - 46* UST Recoil 110 F5

:benhogan-small: TK15 50*, 54* & 58*UST Recoil 110 F5

:cameron-small: Studio Design 2

 

:titelist-small: ProV1x #45

:benhogan-small: BH-1 Stand Bag

 


#11 cnosil

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 08:01 PM

Technology absolutely can help you shoot lower scores. I was a +3 in college with Ping Eye 2s and a 5.5* driver....imagine if I had the fitting and shafts as well as a 460cc driver head? Back then your choices were steel shaft or graphite shaft and flex with not really much else to choose.

There was a huge jump from wood to metal then metal to titanium and then the club head size. Not to mention what has happened to the ball. If you can fine a balata ball or a wound ball in decent shape take it out on the course and play with it, you will really see how you can work a ball with either of those. The ProV1 was a revolution in the ball industry and killed the older wound balls. Also avoided having to carry a gauge to measure if a ball went out of round.

As far as putters goes there is tech, but to me the main advancement in putter tech is fitting. True that you still need to strike the ball and read the green correctly, but having a properly fit flatstick takes some of the variables out of the equation which at the end of the day is the key to shooting a good score....control as much as you can.


Agree 100% about fitting but is that a technology incorporated into the actual club?

I am thinking the bigger question is what is the definition of technology when it comes to clubs

Driver:  :srixon-small: Z355 10.5* w/Miyazaki Jinsoku
Fairway: touredge.jpgXCG7 Beta 15* w/Fujikura Fuel
Hybrid:  :titelist-small: 816h1 19* set at 18* w/Diamana Blue

Hybrid:  :titelist-small: 915h 21* w/Diamana Blue

Irons:  :callaway-small:  X Hot Pro 5-AW w/Projct X Rifle 6.0

Wedge:  :titelist-small: SM 54-08,  :cleveland-small: 588 58-12
Putter:    :taylormade-small:  TM-180

 

Soon to be testing the KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype shaft. 


#12 BIG STU

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 09:26 PM

Well at the same time, didn't the courses get longer and harder to compensate? I know that's definitely the case on tour.

As far as the average Joe is concerned, no matter what technology you give them, their scores will always be limited by the time they are able to put into the game.


Technology can only bring you so far. You've still got to have touch, solid decision making, and a repeatable swing/stroke to shoot lower.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Well said in a nutshell


Driver Titleist 915 D-2 Mitsubishi Diamana 65 R
3 Wood Adams Super S--- Stock Bassara Regular Shaft
Hybrid--- TM Rescue Mid 19* Pro Launch Blue HY special

Hybrid ---- TM Rescue Mid 22* Stock TM tip stiff

Irons --- 4 thru PW 2013 Callaway X Forged Rifle 5,5 PXI Blueprinted

GW --- DSG Top Flite 52* Stock shaft

SW Cleveland CG 15 CC custom sole grind S-400 Bent to 57*

Putter Scotty Santa Fe 1997 vintage Nicknamed "Rusty" because it is

Bag Old School 2008 Titleist Mini Staff

Redneck Hippie Golf Where When The Tailgate Drops The BS Stops !

Founding Father Outlaw Golf Association member #1 to heck with the USGA

 

 


#13 BIG STU

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 09:35 PM

I'd like to see a study of distance claims made by the major mfg's. As we all know with each new club - drivers in particular are longer than the one before it -  6 weeks ago. For example... let's go back to when Tmag came out with a metal driver and work forward. I'm sure at that time the club produced more distance. Same with Callaway and their original Great Big Bertha. Just this year for example Callaway claims 15 more yards with the Epic. (I'm not seeing with the guys I play with.)

So, 25 years ago what was the average distance of a driver? If we were to take the claims of the Mfg's and add all the distance they say they're giving us shouldn't we all be knocking it over the clubhouse on 18 by now?

I will state with a more modern shaft that drivers from the last 8 years ago go just as good as a new one. If you go back to the 80s 90s with like the old Bertha or old TM Burner no with any modern shaft. IMHO most of the technology improvements have been the balls and the shafts in the last 8 years or so. Good example recently I found a 2007 Burner driver in the pile at work. Now it had a ladies shaft in it. I took that out and put a Mitsubshi Diamana 60 in I had laying around which is the same shaft as in my 915. I  hit it as good as I do the 915 no further no less but the same


Driver Titleist 915 D-2 Mitsubishi Diamana 65 R
3 Wood Adams Super S--- Stock Bassara Regular Shaft
Hybrid--- TM Rescue Mid 19* Pro Launch Blue HY special

Hybrid ---- TM Rescue Mid 22* Stock TM tip stiff

Irons --- 4 thru PW 2013 Callaway X Forged Rifle 5,5 PXI Blueprinted

GW --- DSG Top Flite 52* Stock shaft

SW Cleveland CG 15 CC custom sole grind S-400 Bent to 57*

Putter Scotty Santa Fe 1997 vintage Nicknamed "Rusty" because it is

Bag Old School 2008 Titleist Mini Staff

Redneck Hippie Golf Where When The Tailgate Drops The BS Stops !

Founding Father Outlaw Golf Association member #1 to heck with the USGA

 

 


#14 BIG STU

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 09:37 PM

Technology absolutely can help you shoot lower scores.  I was a +3 in college with Ping Eye 2s and a 5.5* driver....imagine if I had the fitting and shafts as well as a 460cc driver head?  Back then your choices were steel shaft or graphite shaft and flex with not really much else to choose.  

 

There was a huge jump from wood to metal then metal to titanium and then the club head size.  Not to mention what has happened to the ball.  If you can fine a balata ball or a wound ball in decent shape take it out on the course and play with it, you will really see how you can work a ball with either of those. The ProV1 was a revolution in the ball industry and killed the older wound balls.  Also avoided having to carry a gauge to measure if a ball went out of round.  

 

As far as putters goes there is tech, but to me the main advancement in putter tech is fitting.  True that you still need to strike the ball and read the green correctly, but having a properly fit flatstick takes some of the variables out of the equation which at the end of the day is the key to shooting a good score....control as much as you can.

LOL I still have my roundness gauge


Driver Titleist 915 D-2 Mitsubishi Diamana 65 R
3 Wood Adams Super S--- Stock Bassara Regular Shaft
Hybrid--- TM Rescue Mid 19* Pro Launch Blue HY special

Hybrid ---- TM Rescue Mid 22* Stock TM tip stiff

Irons --- 4 thru PW 2013 Callaway X Forged Rifle 5,5 PXI Blueprinted

GW --- DSG Top Flite 52* Stock shaft

SW Cleveland CG 15 CC custom sole grind S-400 Bent to 57*

Putter Scotty Santa Fe 1997 vintage Nicknamed "Rusty" because it is

Bag Old School 2008 Titleist Mini Staff

Redneck Hippie Golf Where When The Tailgate Drops The BS Stops !

Founding Father Outlaw Golf Association member #1 to heck with the USGA

 

 


#15 Jmikecpa

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 10:14 PM

Agree 100% about fitting but is that a technology incorporated into the actual club?

I am thinking the bigger question is what is the definition of technology when it comes to clubs


Yes it is. I will take Ping again as an example. For years they had one line of clubs out. If you wanted Pings you had one choice. Now you have three or four. If you like blades you can get them, players cavities or SGI irons. You can get those options in any swing weight or shaft combo your heart desires. If you want iBlades with 65g senior shafts at D5 I am sure it can be done. To have lines of clubs that perform that well with as much customization as that in my mind in technology.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

In the Bag

:callaway-small: Epic Sub Zero 9* AD DI 7x

:callaway-small: Epic Sub Zero 15* AD GT 8x

:callaway-small: Epic 20* Recoil 780 F5

:benhogan-small: Ft. Worth 15 Hi 22*,26* & 30* UST Recoil 110 F5

:benhogan-small: Ft. Worth 15 34* - 46* UST Recoil 110 F5

:benhogan-small: TK15 50*, 54* & 58*UST Recoil 110 F5

:cameron-small: Studio Design 2

 

:titelist-small: ProV1x #45

:benhogan-small: BH-1 Stand Bag

 





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