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"Errant leaf leads to four-shot penalty at Web Finals"


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#1 Kegger

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 03:47 PM

This is a new one for me.. Never knew that you were REQUIRED to replay a stroke on the green where the ball is deflected by a leaf..

 

http://www.golfchann...ndayNL_20170925

 

I also think that the penalty for "signing a wrong scorecard" needs to end when penalties are retroactively added to a round.. But regardless of my views on the rules.. How many of you actually knew this rule existed?? 


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#2 STUDque

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 03:52 PM

I was unaware. Can't wait to pull that out in league. I'm sure it'll go over perfect with my opponents.


In seriousness, I don't think that's fair. It's like a freebie read. You don't get to re-tee when you hit a ball into the trees!


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#3 cnosil

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 05:03 PM

Not sure it applies if you didn't move a leaf or if the ball isn't in motion when the leaf lands in front of your ball

In this case the leaf came in after the ball was in motion. Compare that to the 2010 masters when an object landed on the green and deflected Phil Mickelson's ball.

I definitely didn't know the rule and would have defaulted to it being an unlucky break.

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#4 GolfSpy Meyer

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 05:04 PM

Had no clue about this rule.

So is it only a leaf in motion while the ball is moving? I'm assuming this doesn't count if just don't pick up a leaf in your line. Also what if the leaf blows into your line but is not moving at the time the ball hits it?

So many questions...


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#5 Kegger

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 07:39 PM

This rule definitely only applies if the leaf is in motion. Here is a snippet of the rule:

 

 

 

19-1. By Outside Agency

If a player's ball in motion is accidentally deflected or stopped by any outside agency, it is a rub of the green, there is no penalty and the ball must be played as it lies, except:

a.

If a player's ball in motion after a stroke other than on the putting green comes to rest in or on any moving or animate outside agency, the ball must through the green or in a hazard be dropped, or on the putting green be placed, as near as possible to the spot directly under the place where the ball came to rest in or on the outside agency, but not nearer the hole, and

b.

If a player's ball in motion after a stroke on the putting green is deflected or stopped by, or comes to rest in or on, any moving or animate outside agency, except a worm, insect or the like, the stroke is canceled. The ball must be replaced and replayed.

 

So the way I'm reading this, the ball being deflected by a moving leaf, constituted rule 19-1b, and therefore the stroke would have been cancelled and replayed.. If the leaf had not been moving at the time of the deflection, it would have fallen under just the general 19-1 rule and he would have played the ball as it lie..

 

Seems like a really weird written exception.. So if an insect  landed on his line and deflected the ball, he would have been fine playing it as it lie, but because it was a leaf, the stroke was cancelled? I will definitely remember this rule for my next windy outing!


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#6 silver & black

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 09:33 PM

I'll just disregard the whole stupid rule and keep playing...lol.



#7 Orange Hog

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 12:23 AM

I don't disagree with the rule.  He should have been allowed to replace the ball and putt it again.  The leaf blowing in and completely knocking his ball offline was beyond his control.  But then to penalize him 4 strokes for not knowing some completely obscure rule is insanity.



#8 Kegger

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 12:42 AM

I don't disagree with the rule.  He should have been allowed to replace the ball and putt it again.  The leaf blowing in and completely knocking his ball offline was beyond his control.  But then to penalize him 4 strokes for not knowing some completely obscure rule is insanity.

 

Yes, for once, the basis for the rule isn't the issue here, it's everything that followed, playing from an incorrect spot and signing an incorrect scorecard.. I hate how golf feels the need to compound penalties. If a rules official can retroactively enforce a penalty and thus modify a player's score, shouldn't that player also be given the opportunity to modify their score?


In the Sun Mountain 4.5LS 14-way bag:
Driver: :taylormade-small: M2 10.5° :: Fujikura Pro 50 R-Flex
Fairway: :taylormade-small: M2 15°, 18° :: TM REAX 65 R-Flex
Irons: :nike-small: VRS Covert 2.0 Forged (4-AW) :: KBS $-Taper 110 R-Flex
Wedges: :cleveland-small: RTX-3 54°, 58° :: TT Dynamic Gold Wedge-Flex
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#9 GolfSpy Meyer

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 01:57 AM

I totally understand the absurdness that is the rules of golf.  There is no question that the rules need to be simplified and overhauled.

 

However, if golf is your profession and you play professionally for a living, how do you not go through the rules with a fine tooth comb and know it by heart?  It's like not studying for a test and then getting pissed when you get an answer wrong.

 

I'm guessing it's been Southgate's dream to play on the PGA tour for some time now.  Yes a stupid absurd and hard to understand rule may end up costing him his tour card.  But on the flip side you could say that what cost him his tour card could have been avoided just by reading and understanding a book!  Come on, RTFM!

 

I was once told by a state trooper that ignorance of the law is not an excuse to break the law.  Just because you don't know a rule doesn't mean it's not still a rule and you will be penalized according to said rule.


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#10 TBT

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 01:59 AM

This is a crazy obscure rule.....not sure I agree with it

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#11 Kenny B

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 03:19 AM

What's the reasoning for the difference between a leaf or a bug deflecting the ball?  



#12 L.I. Rich

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 03:50 AM

I totally understand the absurdness that is the rules of golf.  There is no question that the rules need to be simplified and overhauled.
 
However, if golf is your profession and you play professionally for a living, how do you not go through the rules with a fine tooth comb and know it by heart?  It's like not studying for a test and then getting pissed when you get an answer wrong.
 
I'm guessing it's been Southgate's dream to play on the PGA tour for some time now.  Yes a stupid absurd and hard to understand rule may end up costing him his tour card.  But on the flip side you could say that what cost him his tour card could have been avoided just by reading and understanding a book!  Come on, RTFM!
 
I was once told by a state trooper that ignorance of the law is not an excuse to break the law.  Just because you don't know a rule doesn't mean it's not still a rule and you will be penalized according to said rule.


I think RTFM just about sums it up. Can’t win the game if you don’t know the rules. It’s the same with taxes.
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#13 10shot

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 11:30 AM

This rule definitely only applies if the leaf is in motion. Here is a snippet of the rule:


So the way I'm reading this, the ball being deflected by a moving leaf, constituted rule 19-1b, and therefore the stroke would have been cancelled and replayed.. If the leaf had not been moving at the time of the deflection, it would have fallen under just the general 19-1 rule and he would have played the ball as it lie..

Seems like a really weird written exception.. So if an insect landed on his line and deflected the ball, he would have been fine playing it as it lie, but because it was a leaf, the stroke was cancelled? I will definitely remember this rule for my next windy outing!

Kegger,

Would the player get a where it lies if an insect dropped on the green when in motion. I think that may be tough luck as stated. May Im reading the exception wrong about insects

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#14 Canucklehead

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 02:26 PM

I was unaware. Can't wait to pull that out in league. I'm sure it'll go over perfect with my opponents.


In seriousness, I don't think that's fair. It's like a freebie read. You don't get to re-tee when you hit a ball into the trees!


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#15 Canucklehead

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 02:30 PM

What's the reasoning for the difference between a leaf or a bug deflecting the ball?

I don't understand that either. The bug could move in the way couldn't it? Which wouldn't be in control of the player

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