"Errant leaf leads to four-shot penalty at Web Finals"

[Kegger]

This is a new one for me.. Never knew that you were REQUIRED to replay a stroke on the green where the ball is deflected by a leaf..

 

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/errant-leaf-leads-four-shot-penalty-web-finals/?cid=Email_MondayNL_20170925

 

I also think that the penalty for "signing a wrong scorecard" needs to end when penalties are retroactively added to a round.. But regardless of my views on the rules.. How many of you actually knew this rule existed?? 

[STUDque]

I was unaware. Can't wait to pull that out in league. I'm sure it'll go over perfect with my opponents.

 

 

In seriousness, I don't think that's fair. It's like a freebie read. You don't get to re-tee when you hit a ball into the trees!

 

 

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[cnosil]

Not sure it applies if you didn't move a leaf or if the ball isn't in motion when the leaf lands in front of your ball

 

In this case the leaf came in after the ball was in motion. Compare that to the 2010 masters when an object landed on the green and deflected Phil Mickelson's ball.

 

I definitely didn't know the rule and would have defaulted to it being an unlucky break.

[hckymeyer]

Had no clue about this rule.

 

So is it only a leaf in motion while the ball is moving? I'm assuming this doesn't count if just don't pick up a leaf in your line. Also what if the leaf blows into your line but is not moving at the time the ball hits it?

 

So many questions...

 

 

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[Kegger]

This rule definitely only applies if the leaf is in motion. Here is a snippet of the rule:

 

 

 

19-1. By Outside Agency

If a player's ball in motion is accidentally deflected or stopped by any outside agency, it is a rub of the green, there is no penalty and the ball must be played as it lies, except:

a.

If a player's ball in motion after a stroke other than on the putting green comes to rest in or on any moving or animate outside agency, the ball must through the green or in a hazard be dropped, or on the putting green be placed, as near as possible to the spot directly under the place where the ball came to rest in or on the outside agency, but not nearer the hole, and

b.

If a player's ball in motion after a stroke on the putting green is deflected or stopped by, or comes to rest in or on, any moving or animate outside agency, except a worm, insect or the like, the stroke is canceled. The ball must be replaced and replayed.

 

So the way I'm reading this, the ball being deflected by a moving leaf, constituted rule 19-1b, and therefore the stroke would have been cancelled and replayed.. If the leaf had not been moving at the time of the deflection, it would have fallen under just the general 19-1 rule and he would have played the ball as it lie..

 

Seems like a really weird written exception.. So if an insect  landed on his line and deflected the ball, he would have been fine playing it as it lie, but because it was a leaf, the stroke was cancelled? I will definitely remember this rule for my next windy outing!

[silver & black]

I'll just disregard the whole stupid rule and keep playing...lol.

[Orange Hog]

I don't disagree with the rule.  He should have been allowed to replace the ball and putt it again.  The leaf blowing in and completely knocking his ball offline was beyond his control.  But then to penalize him 4 strokes for not knowing some completely obscure rule is insanity.

[Kegger]

I don't disagree with the rule.  He should have been allowed to replace the ball and putt it again.  The leaf blowing in and completely knocking his ball offline was beyond his control.  But then to penalize him 4 strokes for not knowing some completely obscure rule is insanity.

 

Yes, for once, the basis for the rule isn't the issue here, it's everything that followed, playing from an incorrect spot and signing an incorrect scorecard.. I hate how golf feels the need to compound penalties. If a rules official can retroactively enforce a penalty and thus modify a player's score, shouldn't that player also be given the opportunity to modify their score?

[hckymeyer]

I totally understand the absurdness that is the rules of golf.  There is no question that the rules need to be simplified and overhauled.

 

However, if golf is your profession and you play professionally for a living, how do you not go through the rules with a fine tooth comb and know it by heart?  It's like not studying for a test and then getting pissed when you get an answer wrong.

 

I'm guessing it's been Southgate's dream to play on the PGA tour for some time now.  Yes a stupid absurd and hard to understand rule may end up costing him his tour card.  But on the flip side you could say that what cost him his tour card could have been avoided just by reading and understanding a book!  Come on, RTFM!

 

I was once told by a state trooper that ignorance of the law is not an excuse to break the law.  Just because you don't know a rule doesn't mean it's not still a rule and you will be penalized according to said rule.

[TBT]

This is a crazy obscure rule.....not sure I agree with it

[Kenny B]

What's the reasoning for the difference between a leaf or a bug deflecting the ball?  

[L.I. Rich]

I totally understand the absurdness that is the rules of golf.  There is no question that the rules need to be simplified and overhauled.

 

However, if golf is your profession and you play professionally for a living, how do you not go through the rules with a fine tooth comb and know it by heart?  It's like not studying for a test and then getting pissed when you get an answer wrong.

 

I'm guessing it's been Southgate's dream to play on the PGA tour for some time now.  Yes a stupid absurd and hard to understand rule may end up costing him his tour card.  But on the flip side you could say that what cost him his tour card could have been avoided just by reading and understanding a book!  Come on, RTFM!

 

I was once told by a state trooper that ignorance of the law is not an excuse to break the law.  Just because you don't know a rule doesn't mean it's not still a rule and you will be penalized according to said rule.

I think RTFM just about sums it up. Can't win the game if you don't know the rules. It's the same with taxes.

[10shot]

This rule definitely only applies if the leaf is in motion. Here is a snippet of the rule:

 

 

So the way I'm reading this, the ball being deflected by a moving leaf, constituted rule 19-1b, and therefore the stroke would have been cancelled and replayed.. If the leaf had not been moving at the time of the deflection, it would have fallen under just the general 19-1 rule and he would have played the ball as it lie..

 

Seems like a really weird written exception.. So if an insect landed on his line and deflected the ball, he would have been fine playing it as it lie, but because it was a leaf, the stroke was cancelled? I will definitely remember this rule for my next windy outing!

Kegger,

 

Would the player get a where it lies if an insect dropped on the green when in motion. I think that may be tough luck as stated. May Im reading the exception wrong about insects

 

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[Canucklehead]

I was unaware. Can't wait to pull that out in league. I'm sure it'll go over perfect with my opponents.

 

 

In seriousness, I don't think that's fair. It's like a freebie read. You don't get to re-tee when you hit a ball into the trees!

 

 

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"I had to see which way the wind was blowing"

 

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[Canucklehead]

What's the reasoning for the difference between a leaf or a bug deflecting the ball?

I don't understand that either. The bug could move in the way couldn't it? Which wouldn't be in control of the player

 

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[Kegger]

Kegger,

 

Would the player get a where it lies if an insect dropped on the green when in motion. I think that may be tough luck as stated. May Im reading the exception wrong about insects

 

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Full disclosure, I was not aware of this rule until I looked it up after the article, so what I say is only speculative on my part... If I understand the rule correctly, then yes, the ball being deflected by an insect would be a "rub of the green", and would be played as it lie with no penalty.

[cksurfdude]

Is wind, specifically, excluded from this Rule as an "outside agency"?

 

Say you hit a nice long, high approach shot .. on a beautiful trajectory right towards the middle of the green .. and a then, after you've made your stroke and the ball is in motion .. a strong gust of wind forces it off course and off the green (and maybe into a hazard)...?

 

Do you drop the ball in the middle of the green?

[Kenny B]

Is wind, specifically, excluded from this Rule as an "outside agency"?

 

Say you hit a nice long, high approach shot .. on a beautiful trajectory right towards the middle of the green .. and a then, after you've made your stroke and the ball is in motion .. a strong gust of wind forces it off course and off the green (and maybe into a hazard)...?

 

Do you drop the ball in the middle of the green?

 

Neither wind nor water is an outside agency.

[Kor.A.Door]

So let me get this straight, there is a rule that actually would have helped him and allowed him to possibly have a lower score, but rarely if ever does it happen, but because he didn't know this apparent good rule, not only was he penalized because he thought it was just bad luck, but then penalized 4 more times because apparently you get to replay the stroke, but no one knew about. I don't think I've ever heard or seen this rule, ever.

[cnosil]

So let me get this straight, there is a rule that actually would have helped him and allowed him to possibly have a lower score, but rarely if ever does it happen, but because he didn't know this apparent good rule, not only was he penalized because he thought it was just bad luck, but then penalized 4 more times because apparently you get to replay the stroke, but no one knew about. I don't think I've ever heard or seen this rule, ever.

I think that sums it up pretty well. Except someone did know the rule or he wouldn't have been penalized.

[JTexGolfer]

I think in a tour event there should be some thought to intent. By not retrying the putt he actually had already cost himself a stroke given the likelihood he would make that short putt with a do over. By not knowing the rule he had basically already penalized himself, and then he gets 4 more shots added to his score. I get the argument that as a pro he should know all of the rules but this one seems awful harsh.

[revkev]

I was certainly unaware of this rule. If I played golf for a living I would know it. I would constantly be reviewing the rules with my caddy.

 

Over the past couple of seasons we've seen stunning examples of how knowing the rules or not knowing them can make a difference in a tournament.

 

 

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[Kegger]

Had an instance during my round today where this ruling popped into my head. After taking my putt, a butterfly decided that my ball looked scrumptious and attempted to land on it while it was still in motion towards the hole. It only seemed to touch it for a split second, if at all, but since I came up a couple inches short of the cup, I blame the butterfly! But regardless, as an insect does not qualify under rule 19-1b, the stroke counted and I walked off the green upset at myself for leaving the ball a couple inches short in the heart of the cup!