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DQOTD: Shaft Lengths & Fitting?


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#1 Middler

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 11:43 AM

I broached this in another thread, and shouldn't have, sorry.

I’ve never had clubs other than off the rack, standard everything except of course shaft flex. I plan to buy new irons this winter, and get fit. I’m 6’1” and my WTF and the online tables say I should have shafts 1/2”-3/4” longer than standard. And the whole idea sounds reasonable enough.

But it occurred to me my current irons range from 39.5” to 35.5” - a range of 4” - and I suspect that’s been the case for every set I’ve ever played. Furthermore, my off the rack driver is 46” 45.75" - so 10.5” 10.25" longer than my SW. If a fitted shaft length of 1/2" more than standard is truly important, how have we ALL managed to deal with far, far greater differences in shafts lengths for almost every set ever made for all these years - 53 years in my case!

Furthermore, it’s well documented that shorter shafts are easier to hit. So while 1/2” extra shaft length across the set in fitting may provide a little more clubhead speed/distance, it will probably work against me in terms of accuracy?

Not trying to be dense, just really puzzled.

PS I don’t know what the average is, but I’ve heard quite a few tour pros use drivers than are 1-2” shorter than my off the rack 46” 45.75" TaylorMade...


TaylorMade RBZ Driver, 3W & 5W
Callaway X416 3 & 4H
Wilson Staff RM Midsize 2-SW
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#2 cnosil

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 12:12 PM

I think the part that gets lost in translation is that you should play the longest shafts that you can control. This thought gets into consistency and dispersion. If you look at the progression of shaft lengths irons generally progress at about half an inch and the you get to the woods and the length dramatically increases. This is due to the fact that people chase distance which can most easily be created by increased length since the farther away a clubhead is from the center of the circle the faster it travels.

Driver:  :srixon-small: Z355 10.5* w/Miyazaki Jinsoku
Fairway: touredge.jpgXCG7 Beta 15* w/Fujikura Fuel
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#3 MattF

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 12:19 PM

That's why you should get fitted. You may or may not "need" that 1/2" - 3/4". And I'll bet my left one if you had your driver cut down 1 - 1 1/2" and weighted correctly, your accuracy would increase, your dispersion would decrease and you might lose and but probably increase distance because you're hitting the centre of the driver more often.

 

The pro's average 44.5" on their drivers, AFAIA.

 

Just my 2c...I'm no fitter but this is my understanding. 


In the bag:

:mizuno-small:JPX-EZ Driver 11.5°U Fujikura SIX XLR8 S flex

:mizuno-small:JPX-EX 3 wood 16.5°U Fujikura SIX XLR8 S flex

:mizuno-small:JPE-EZ 5 wood 19°U Fulikura SIX XLR8 S flex
21° Maltby KE4 HDI Hybrid UST Mamiya Recoil 680 F4
23° Maltby KE4 HDI Hybrid UST Mamiya Recoil 680 F4
25° Maltby KE4 HDI Hybrid UST Mamiya Recoil 680 F4
Irons: Maltby 6-9 DBM Forged UST Mamiya Recoil 680 F4
Wedges: SCOR 46°, 50°, 54° Nippon Pro

:yes-small: Putter: Yes! Tracy
Bag: Sun Mountain C-130
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#4 strokerAce

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 01:34 PM

....or you can try single length irons and make the game a heckuva lot easier on yourself.   :o


Franklin, MA; Right Handed; 12.7hc

- Driver  Cobra King F7+   UST Mamiya Elements Chrome 6F4   

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Irons  TWG Sterling single length 5-P  TT XP90s

Wedges  Ping Glide 2 50/54/58  TT XP95

Putter  Odyssey ProType Black #9  black shaft round grip

 

 


#5 Kor.A.Door

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 05:08 PM

I am also tall, 6'4", I play +1" in my irons. For the irons, there is more that goes into it than just saying "I need plus 1/2 or 3/4 inch" added to the irons, the added length for your irons isn't about distance, rather about posture, along with lie angle. When adding length it's likely that you will have to change your lie as well, no always, but in a lot of cases yes. That's where being fitted comes in, As a taller golfer you may be losing distance or you may have bad posture with standard length clubs, adding the length may help with posture and in return will add more distance. The fitter will make the necessary adjustments to get the ball flight to be the best it can be.
For longer clubs, there is no set length that you must stay in, in relation to your other clubs, if you hit the ball better with your driver at 42" then use that, if it's better at 46" then do that, again the fitter should able help you find the sweetspot so to speak. My driver is around 45.5 and my 3wd is 43.5 That works for me, but it may not work for someone else that is 6'4". Find what works and don't let anyone tell you it's wrong.
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#6 STUDque

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 05:10 PM

What does DQOTD stand for? Asking for a friend.....


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What's in the bag?

 

Driver: Titleist 915 D3 (Aldila Rogue Silver X)

Wood: Ping i25 (stock x-flex)

Irons: TaylorMade Tour Preferred MC (+.5" / up 2* / stiff / mid grip)

Wedges: Titleist Vokey 52,56,60

Putter: STX SS6

Cart: Cliqgear 3.5+ (walk almost every round)

 


#7 jaskanski

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 05:23 PM

What does DQOTD stand for? Asking for a friend.....


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

 

I think it means :

"dumb question of the day". 

 

On the other hand though, this kind of thought process is quite common. The age old "standard" mantra.

Ignore "standard". Standard does not exist - simply because there isn't one. So when you ask for lie angles "i degree up" and length "1 inch over" you have to ask - from what?

The only thing you can find uniformity with is the correct lie and length that has been fitted for you.

So the next time you get fitted, make sure you don't get bogged down in what the OTR specs are because they are largely meaningless. In all simplicity, the only thing you are looking for is a combination of shaft weight, length and flex which can deliver the centre of the club head to the ball with a given swing from a given stature. If there really should be any kind of "standard", then the fitting methodology of achieving this should be. Unfortunately, this is often not the case - hence you get the kind of confusion that really has no place in fitting a set of clubs (or individual club) to a person.



#8 chisag

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 05:53 PM

... If you are not going to get professionally fit (which is a great idea) a nice option is using the Mizuno Optimizer. In 3 swings it will tell you exactly what you need in a shaft. I have always fit myself and thru trial and error as well as technical LM help I knew my best iron shaft was KBS Tour Stiff, soft stepped once and 1/"over. I did a review for Mizuno MP59's and they wanted me to go thru a fitting to be sure the irons were maximized for my performance. I was a little skeptical of the Optimizer but when the specs came back "KBS Tour Stiff, soft stepped once and 1/"over." I was very impressed. 

... As far as driver length, the shorter the better. The amount of distance you lose from just missing the center by 1/2" is big and miss it by a full inch and you are really loosing yards. So the few MPH you gain with a longer shaft is negated by missing it by 1/4"! I use a 44" shaft and at age 64 I am hitting it consistently farther than I ever have. Those that think they hit a longer shaft well should take their long and short drives into consideration. I have played with those that hit one or to big drives with a longer than 45" shaft and that is what they think their potential is for all shots. Yet they hit more shots much shorter due to slight mishits and although their very longest drive may be a few yards shorter, their average drives will be much longer with a shorter shaft. From Golf Digest:

Missing the middle of the club at impact (also known as the sweet spot) by one fourth (1/4") of an inch in any direction reduces the distance the ball will travel by ten percent. Missing the middle of the club at impact by one half (1/2") an inch in any direction reduces the distance the ball will travel by twenty percent. Please observe example in the picture below. You do that and you WILL hit the ball longer. Because golf digest did a study, where they found these results for a 100 mph swing…

​Center Hit – 258 yards
1/2 inch off center – 243 yards
3/4 inch off center – 237 yards
1 inch off center – 227 
So contacting a golf ball an inch off the center of the clubface with a 100 mph swing speed, results in a 31 yard loss of distance!

 

... Davis Love III said something I have always remembered. When he needs a big drive, absolutely needs one, he slows his swing down just a hair and puts all his focus on perfect contact. I have tried to remember that when going for par 5's in two, although I am not always successful. :unsure:  


Driver:   Callaway Epic 10.5* ... Rogue Black Tour 110 60s 

Utility:  Cobra King Utility 19* ... Rogue Black 85 Hys

Hybrid: 18.5* & 21.5* RBZ Tour ... Altus 85 Hys

Irons:  4/5 TM UDi Recoil 95's ... 6-pw Cobra King Forged Tour Recoil Prototype 95's

Wedges:  SM6 52* F Grind /SM6 58* M Grind ... Recoil 110s

Putter:  Bobby Grace 6330 at 33.25"

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#9 Carolina Golfer 2

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 06:49 PM

First off, there was no problem with your question in my thread, it fit right in with the topic,...see what I did there  :D  So no apology needed at all!

 

Some good advise has already been given, I will also two things.

 

1) I think a full bag fitting would a wonderful thing for just about anyone.  I know it's not financially or geographically possible for some, but places like Cool Clubs, Club Champion, Miles of Golf and yes OEM HQ's although you will be limited to that brand in a way.   I have considered it and may try and do it next spring.

 

2) I think ti was Jaskanski that said, forget the "standard" and he is so correct.  I have been fit for two segments of my bag this year.  Irons I was fit in +1 inch over Mizuno standard, then during a FW fitting I was fit for a 1/2 inch shorter than normal 5 wood shaft.   so getting professional and individual attention to each part of the bag will lead itself to not only helpful but surprising results at times.  And FWIW, that 1/2 shorter FW has been the best decision I've ever made.  it's my most consistent club in the bag. 


  :titelist-small: 917D3 9.5  Diamana 55g  stiff   :titelist-small:  917 F2 18*  Diamana Red 60g Stiff  :titelist-small: 816 H1 21* and 23* Diamana    :titelist-small: 718 AP1 4-7 iron DG AMT White Shaft, AP2  7-PW DG AMT White     :titelist-small: SM6 50.08, 54.08 and 58.12  :cameron-small: X7M   :titelist-small: ProV1X #17


#10 Middler

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 07:38 PM

I am planning to get irons custom fit this winter as I noted in post #1. I am not interested in a single length set.

My question is simply - for example, if recommended in a fitting, how can a 1/2" increase in standard length (what's "standard" is beside the point for this question) of all the irons be of any consequence when no matter what I buy my irons will vary in length by about 4" and my driver to SW will vary about 10."

Makes it seem like fitting club length is some sort of misnomer, or maybe the only club lengths that truly matter are the shortest (for higher WTF folks) or longest (for lower WTF folks). And all the other lengths are a 1/2" step from the suitable longest or shortest - just occurred to me maybe that's the answer. My 35.5" PW and SW have always felt almost uncomfortably short to me, but none of the other clubs feel short. I am guessing if my PW and SW were 36" like my 9-iron, they'd all feel comfortable to me...

Hopefully I've made the question clearer?

Again, not trying to be obtuse, just trying to understand and be prepared when I do get fit in the next few months.
TaylorMade RBZ Driver, 3W & 5W
Callaway X416 3 & 4H
Wilson Staff RM Midsize 2-SW
Evnroll ER2 Snell MTB Ogio Silencer

#11 chisag

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 08:06 PM

... A good club fitter will address all of this. I play my wedges in 1/4" increments thru the pw, not 1/2" increments. 36.25" Lw, 36.5" Sw and 36.75" Pw. Hitting the Mizuno Optimizer, the fitter started me out with standard length and I was missing the center by a little. He put me in the same club 1/2" longer and contact was perfect. I had found this out on my own of course but of course validation is nice.

 

... Today they have every technical advantage needed to do an exact fitting and the more repeatable your swing the more accurate the fitting. I think you will be very impressed and happy with your fitting and all your questions should be answered. 


Driver:   Callaway Epic 10.5* ... Rogue Black Tour 110 60s 

Utility:  Cobra King Utility 19* ... Rogue Black 85 Hys

Hybrid: 18.5* & 21.5* RBZ Tour ... Altus 85 Hys

Irons:  4/5 TM UDi Recoil 95's ... 6-pw Cobra King Forged Tour Recoil Prototype 95's

Wedges:  SM6 52* F Grind /SM6 58* M Grind ... Recoil 110s

Putter:  Bobby Grace 6330 at 33.25"

Ball:  TaylorMade TP5x
 


#12 Carolina Golfer 2

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 08:49 PM

I am planning to get irons custom fit this winter as I noted in post #1. I am not interested in a single length set.

 

My question is simply - for example, if recommended in a fitting, how can a 1/2" increase in standard length (what's "standard" is beside the point for this question) of all the irons be of any consequence when no matter what I buy my irons will vary in length by about 4" and my driver to SW will vary about 10."

 

Makes it seem like fitting club length is some sort of misnomer, or maybe the only club lengths that truly matter are the shortest (for higher WTF folks) or longest (for lower WTF folks). And all the other lengths are a 1/2" step from the suitable longest or shortest - just occurred to me maybe that's the answer. My 35.5" PW and SW have always felt almost uncomfortably short to me, but none of the other clubs feel short. I am guessing if my PW and SW were 36" like my 9-iron, they'd all feel comfortable to me...

 

Hopefully I've made the question clearer?

 

Again, not trying to be obtuse, just trying to understand and be prepared when I do get fit in the next few months.

Mid...I wasn't trying to avoid answering your question directly, as you bring up a very good and logical question.  It goes back to the One Length I mentioned about perhaps this is exactly what Bryson is trying to say and demonstrate to everyone, of course he's not going to get hundreds of years of goflers and fitters/builders to change their minds, but in it's simplest terms it makes sense.

 

What ChiSAG says about his 1/4 inch was brought to my attention by a very reputable fitter on WRX when I asked the same question there, he goes with 3/8 as opposed to the long accepted 1/2 inch.   Again I guess I'm not answering your question, because I simply don't have the knowledge and expertise, other than the standard...we'll it's always been done that way...ha

 

I wasn't necessarily harping on you to get fit as I know you mentioned it, as I was just trying to convey, people shouldn't stop at just irons or just driver.  Getting a full bag often makes all the pieces work together, such as my shorter FW but longer irons.  All done by the same fitter by the way.

 

Good topic!


  :titelist-small: 917D3 9.5  Diamana 55g  stiff   :titelist-small:  917 F2 18*  Diamana Red 60g Stiff  :titelist-small: 816 H1 21* and 23* Diamana    :titelist-small: 718 AP1 4-7 iron DG AMT White Shaft, AP2  7-PW DG AMT White     :titelist-small: SM6 50.08, 54.08 and 58.12  :cameron-small: X7M   :titelist-small: ProV1X #17


#13 Middler

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 10:53 PM

Mid...I wasn't trying to avoid answering your question directly, as you bring up a very good and logical question. It goes back to the One Length I mentioned about perhaps this is exactly what Bryson is trying to say and demonstrate to everyone, of course he's not going to get hundreds of years of goflers and fitters/builders to change their minds, but in it's simplest terms it makes sense.

What ChiSAG says about his 1/4 inch was brought to my attention by a very reputable fitter on WRX when I asked the same question there, he goes with 3/8 as opposed to the long accepted 1/2 inch. Again I guess I'm not answering your question, because I simply don't have the knowledge and expertise, other than the standard...we'll it's always been done that way...ha

I wasn't necessarily harping on you to get fit as I know you mentioned it, as I was just trying to convey, people shouldn't stop at just irons or just driver. Getting a full bag often makes all the pieces work together, such as my shorter FW but longer irons. All done by the same fitter by the way.

Good topic!

And I wasn’t questioning anyone’s intentions in any way, just concerned that I hadn’t done an adequate job in the way I posed my question. I may have accidentally stumbled on an answer in post #10, though not entirely satisfying.
TaylorMade RBZ Driver, 3W & 5W
Callaway X416 3 & 4H
Wilson Staff RM Midsize 2-SW
Evnroll ER2 Snell MTB Ogio Silencer

#14 Carolina Golfer 2

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 11:14 PM

Not all. I think it's a good question/conversation. I think another company don't have any idea who, but if I had to bet on one, I'd say Taylormade, will venture into the One Length irons.


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  :titelist-small: 917D3 9.5  Diamana 55g  stiff   :titelist-small:  917 F2 18*  Diamana Red 60g Stiff  :titelist-small: 816 H1 21* and 23* Diamana    :titelist-small: 718 AP1 4-7 iron DG AMT White Shaft, AP2  7-PW DG AMT White     :titelist-small: SM6 50.08, 54.08 and 58.12  :cameron-small: X7M   :titelist-small: ProV1X #17


#15 Kor.A.Door

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 12:02 AM

I am planning to get irons custom fit this winter as I noted in post #1. I am not interested in a single length set.

My question is simply - for example, if recommended in a fitting, how can a 1/2" increase in standard length (what's "standard" is beside the point for this question) of all the irons be of any consequence when no matter what I buy my irons will vary in length by about 4" and my driver to SW will vary about 10."

Makes it seem like fitting club length is some sort of misnomer, or maybe the only club lengths that truly matter are the shortest (for higher WTF folks) or longest (for lower WTF folks). And all the other lengths are a 1/2" step from the suitable longest or shortest - just occurred to me maybe that's the answer. My 35.5" PW and SW have always felt almost uncomfortably short to me, but none of the other clubs feel short. I am guessing if my PW and SW were 36" like my 9-iron, they'd all feel comfortable to me...

Hopefully I've made the question clearer?

Again, not trying to be obtuse, just trying to understand and be prepared when I do get fit in the next few months.


Driver and irons are totally different fittings, don't think about the difference of length between your irons and driver.

You will get fitted, and the fitter will/should address why. My biggest thing is ball flight, does the ball go where I want it to go, and does it do what I want it to do. The fitter can help with that.

You make your driver 1/2 longer than your 4 iron if you want, it may work, but at what cost, distance, consistency. He will fit you to a driver length that gives you the best blend of both. You want distance, but you also want to be accurate, a god fitter should be able to optimize both.
My opinion is not to get caught up in the length between, but rather, be more aware of what the ball is doing, at the end of the day your clubs should be tools that work for you not against you, a good fitter will help you find the best tools for you and your swing.
Lefties are always in their Right Mind




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