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Non-conforming equipment from OEMs

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For some reason you seem to be taking this and applying it other sports... this is apples and oranges.

basketball courts are all the same size

football fields are all the same size

tennis course are all the same size

baseball fields are the same size (after little league)

 

every golf course is a different size/shape/layout...every. single. one.

and in this case we have changed more than 1 variable and the equipment being used does matter.

 

frankly it seems like you're taking this to the extreme - which I am not suggesting at all....

 

Stroker- you are correct, and I apologize if you took this out of context - not at all what I meant- I understand and agree that an individual has the right to use whatever he wants- and not sure why the industry (other than what has already been mentioned) doesn't make more non-conforming equipment.

 

My only point in my little (ok maybe more than little) rant is that I personally prefer to play within the confines of the rules as they currently exist-

 

My experience is that some individuals will take the inch they are given, and stretch it into a yard, and that concerns me for a game where I call most penalties on myself.  Again, this is just me- 

 

BTW, Thanks for the great topic.   I think I have written more here today than I have in several of my recent research papers!!!  Guess that tells you where my mind is right now!! 

 

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Stroker- you are correct, and I apologize if you took this out of context - not at all what I meant- I understand and agree that an individual has the right to use whatever he wants- and not sure why the industry (other than what has already been mentioned) doesn't make more non-conforming equipment.

 

My only point in my little (ok maybe more than little) rant is that I personally prefer to play within the confines of the rules as they currently exist-

 

My experience is that some individuals will take the inch they are given, and stretch it into a yard, and that concerns me for a game where I call most penalties on myself.  Again, this is just me- 

 

BTW, Thanks for the great topic.   I think I have written more here today than I have in several of my recent research papers!!!  Guess that tells you where my mind is right now!! 

 

 

Thanks for commenting!  I was hoping this topic would generate some interest and commentary and glad to see that it did.  There are definitely multiple sides to the issue and I'm happy that we are able to engage in a good conversation about them!!

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To use the basketball analogy.  They already do make adjustable hoops.  What's wrong with the kid in driveway lowering the hoop to try and dunk?  It's not hurting anyone and it makes it fun.  Now when that kid goes to play a competitive game the hoops are all back at 10'.

 

Same with golf.  If someone want to use a juiced up driver when they are messing around and playing for fun I don't see an issue.

 

Now take that same guy and make it a competitive match and you have to go back to following the rules and using conforming equipment.  It's up to the individual player how they want to play the game.

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Ok I am going to bite and throw in my .02 worth FWIW. Now this is only IMHO and I may step off in a big pile of poop but here goes

 

First off my contension with the USGA and R&A started with the 2010 groove rule on clubs of 25* or more. Suddenly a whole host of clubs were deemed non-conforming. That is a two edged sword itself. Good example most of my old Cleveland 588 wedges made in the 80s and 90s were non conforming. Now say my 1987 Cleveland 588 was conforming to both standards on the date of manufacture but now it is not. Another thing is that if a club is not tested and on the conforming list it is deemed non conforming until tested. Believe it or not a lot of clubs made between 1950 and 1995 would conform IF tested but until they are tested and deemed conforming they are deemed non conforming. To get those tested will cost you a few bucks. Now if someone really gets technical some new model that have been deemed and tested conforming can check non conforming on an individual club. A friend of mine on WRX who is a top amateur golfer ran into that with a set of Vega (a JDM brand) irons made in 2015. He had them sent off to the USGA and tested at his own expense because he had heard some stuff, I think the 7 iron and 8 iron in that set tested non conforming. He told me a USGA official told him tongue in cheek that some of the conforming sets if you pulled them off the shelf that some of the clubs in any given set would check non conforming and that was with all major USA manufacturers. The reason he had those Vega irons checked he told me was that if someone was playing JDM irons in some top tournaments that some guys had a habit for what ever reason to call them on it. One of the reasons I have never seriously pursued getting my AM status back and playing USGA and Carolina's Golf Association events. I do not need that BS.

 

The anchored putter thing got me started really bad. I did actually try one and putted with it a while but went back conventional style long before the anchor ban. I never had no problem with anchoring. When the USGA started on that agged on by Nobilo and Chamblee on the GC it stirred up a firestorm. All of a sudden senior golfers with back problems and the shakes due to age or meds were going to quit league play or the game all together. Most of the senior leagues here adopted a "local" rule to disregard the anchor ban. Now that Langer and McCarron have found a way to use the broomstick legally the talking heads are at it again wanting to limit overall putter length

 

All of the above is why I have not renewed my USGA Membership since 2010 after being a 30 year member

 

Now I can respectfully see ddryan's point on the rules. I do not nessecarairly condone juiced up drivers and balls etc except in some occasions. When I ran the golf shop I had a friend of mine come to me. His Dad was in his 80s and still in good health and had played the game all his life. Now of course he was upset about diminished distance even from the red (over 70 tees). My buddy wanted to know if I could help. Of course I built him a Intregra non conforming driver and sold him some Bandit Non conforming balls. The old man picked up maybe 10 yards but was pleased and played for 3 or so years until his death. 

 

I have also said this that less than 5% of all golfers are as passionate or know as much about the game as us folks on this and other golf sites. Most of them play for the fun of it and could care less about the stipulated rules or the USGA, R&A or the PGA for that matter. Most of them do not keep a legal stipulated handicap or care about one.

 

I am retired from comp now and big money matches for the most part. I do play with 3 or 4 small groups in small money matches. No one in any of those groups gives 2 hoots whether a wedge conforms or not or if someone anchors or not. Which I say I have no problem with someone playing strictly by the rules on equipment etc what ever floats one's boat

 

My .02 FWIW hope I did not make any one mad and you guys will talk to me again

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Ok I am going to bite and throw in my .02 worth FWIW. Now this is only IMHO and I may step off in a big pile of poop but here goes

 

First off my contension with the USGA and R&A started with the 2010 groove rule on clubs of 25* or more. Suddenly a whole host of clubs were deemed non-conforming. That is a two edged sword itself. Good example most of my old Cleveland 588 wedges made in the 80s and 90s were non conforming. Now say my 1987 Cleveland 588 was conforming to both standards on the date of manufacture but now it is not. Another thing is that if a club is not tested and on the conforming list it is deemed non conforming until tested. Believe it or not a lot of clubs made between 1950 and 1995 would conform IF tested but until they are tested and deemed conforming they are deemed non conforming. To get those tested will cost you a few bucks. Now if someone really gets technical some new model that have been deemed and tested conforming can check non conforming on an individual club. A friend of mine on WRX who is a top amateur golfer ran into that with a set of Vega (a JDM brand) irons made in 2015. He had them sent off to the USGA and tested at his own expense because he had heard some stuff, I think the 7 iron and 8 iron in that set tested non conforming. He told me a USGA official told him tongue in cheek that some of the conforming sets if you pulled them off the shelf that some of the clubs in any given set would check non conforming and that was with all major USA manufacturers. The reason he had those Vega irons checked he told me was that if someone was playing JDM irons in some top tournaments that some guys had a habit for what ever reason to call them on it. One of the reasons I have never seriously pursued getting my AM status back and playing USGA and Carolina's Golf Association events. I do not need that BS.

 

The anchored putter thing got me started really bad. I did actually try one and putted with it a while but went back conventional style long before the anchor ban. I never had no problem with anchoring. When the USGA started on that agged on by Nobilo and Chamblee on the GC it stirred up a firestorm. All of a sudden senior golfers with back problems and the shakes due to age or meds were going to quit league play or the game all together. Most of the senior leagues here adopted a "local" rule to disregard the anchor ban. Now that Langer and McCarron have found a way to use the broomstick legally the talking heads are at it again wanting to limit overall putter length

 

All of the above is why I have not renewed my USGA Membership since 2010 after being a 30 year member

 

Now I can respectfully see ddryan's point on the rules. I do not nessecarairly condone juiced up drivers and balls etc except in some occasions. When I ran the golf shop I had a friend of mine come to me. His Dad was in his 80s and still in good health and had played the game all his life. Now of course he was upset about diminished distance even from the red (over 70 tees). My buddy wanted to know if I could help. Of course I built him a Intregra non conforming driver and sold him some Bandit Non conforming balls. The old man picked up maybe 10 yards but was pleased and played for 3 or so years until his death.

 

I have also said this that less than 5% of all golfers are as passionate or know as much about the game as us folks on this and other golf sites. Most of them play for the fun of it and could care less about the stipulated rules or the USGA, R&A or the PGA for that matter. Most of them do not keep a legal stipulated handicap or care about one.

 

I am retired from comp now and big money matches for the most part. I do play with 3 or 4 small groups in small money matches. No one in any of those groups gives 2 hoots whether a wedge conforms or not or if someone anchors or not. Which I say I have no problem with someone playing strictly by the rules on equipment etc what ever floats one's boat

 

My .02 FWIW hope I did not make any one mad and you guys will talk to me again

 

BIG STU I always enjoy reading your point of view. Agree with the wedge and putter BS.

 

Maybe us people who wouldn't mind playing non-conforming should have our own MGS little Japan and play what we want and not care

 

Great topic!!

 

 

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BIG STU I always enjoy reading your point of view. Agree with the wedge and putter BS.

 

Maybe us people who wouldn't mind playing non-conforming should have our own MGS little Japan and play what we want and not care

 

Great topic!!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Basically I started the Outlaw Golf Association (OGA) over on WRX. No fees no dues etc just a little informal thing with only a couple of rules (sic)

#1 A basic disdain for the UCSGA and R&A and slam both organizations on the forums in public when ever you can

#2 Have fun playing and play what ever equipment you want to again The USGA and R&A be dammed!!

 

I have explained this before over here but have had no takers yet

That explains the OGA reference in my signature

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Basically I started the Outlaw Golf Association (OGA) over on WRX. No fees no dues etc just a little informal thing with only a couple of rules (sic)

#1 A basic disdain for the UCSGA and R&A and slam both organizations on the forums in public when ever you can

#2 Have fun playing and play what ever equipment you want to again The USGA and R&A be dammed!!

 

I have explained this before over here but have had no takers yet

That explains the OGA reference in my signature

 

Just curious, what's your stance on chippers and other silly clubs that are definitely not confirming in any way shape or form?

 

 

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Just curious, what's your stance on chippers and other silly clubs that are definitely not confirming in any way shape or form?

 

 

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I look at chippers and wide flanged sand clubs like the Cleveland Smart Sole wedge as fundamentally being no different than a hybrid. People hit hybrids because they're easier to hit than long irons. People hit chippers because they're easier to chip with than wedges.

 

Not sure there's a big difference.

 

If it helps someone have more fun playing, why the hell not?

 

 

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I think the major thing is perception. Recreational golfers can be a snobby bunch. We look down on all sorts of things, even if they aren't illegal, but viewed as a crutch. Also we want to play what our favorite pga pro plays. So for OEMs is it really worth their money for the R&D and production?

 

 

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Ok I am going to bite and throw in my .02 worth FWIW. Now this is only IMHO and I may step off in a big pile of poop but here goes

 

First off my contension with the USGA and R&A started with the 2010 groove rule on clubs of 25* or more. Suddenly a whole host of clubs were deemed non-conforming. That is a two edged sword itself. Good example most of my old Cleveland 588 wedges made in the 80s and 90s were non conforming. Now say my 1987 Cleveland 588 was conforming to both standards on the date of manufacture but now it is not. Another thing is that if a club is not tested and on the conforming list it is deemed non conforming until tested. Believe it or not a lot of clubs made between 1950 and 1995 would conform IF tested but until they are tested and deemed conforming they are deemed non conforming. To get those tested will cost you a few bucks. Now if someone really gets technical some new model that have been deemed and tested conforming can check non conforming on an individual club. A friend of mine on WRX who is a top amateur golfer ran into that with a set of Vega (a JDM brand) irons made in 2015. He had them sent off to the USGA and tested at his own expense because he had heard some stuff, I think the 7 iron and 8 iron in that set tested non conforming. He told me a USGA official told him tongue in cheek that some of the conforming sets if you pulled them off the shelf that some of the clubs in any given set would check non conforming and that was with all major USA manufacturers. The reason he had those Vega irons checked he told me was that if someone was playing JDM irons in some top tournaments that some guys had a habit for what ever reason to call them on it. One of the reasons I have never seriously pursued getting my AM status back and playing USGA and Carolina's Golf Association events. I do not need that BS.

 

The anchored putter thing got me started really bad. I did actually try one and putted with it a while but went back conventional style long before the anchor ban. I never had no problem with anchoring. When the USGA started on that agged on by Nobilo and Chamblee on the GC it stirred up a firestorm. All of a sudden senior golfers with back problems and the shakes due to age or meds were going to quit league play or the game all together. Most of the senior leagues here adopted a "local" rule to disregard the anchor ban. Now that Langer and McCarron have found a way to use the broomstick legally the talking heads are at it again wanting to limit overall putter length

 

All of the above is why I have not renewed my USGA Membership since 2010 after being a 30 year member

 

Now I can respectfully see ddryan's point on the rules. I do not nessecarairly condone juiced up drivers and balls etc except in some occasions. When I ran the golf shop I had a friend of mine come to me. His Dad was in his 80s and still in good health and had played the game all his life. Now of course he was upset about diminished distance even from the red (over 70 tees). My buddy wanted to know if I could help. Of course I built him a Intregra non conforming driver and sold him some Bandit Non conforming balls. The old man picked up maybe 10 yards but was pleased and played for 3 or so years until his death. 

 

I have also said this that less than 5% of all golfers are as passionate or know as much about the game as us folks on this and other golf sites. Most of them play for the fun of it and could care less about the stipulated rules or the USGA, R&A or the PGA for that matter. Most of them do not keep a legal stipulated handicap or care about one.

 

I am retired from comp now and big money matches for the most part. I do play with 3 or 4 small groups in small money matches. No one in any of those groups gives 2 hoots whether a wedge conforms or not or if someone anchors or not. Which I say I have no problem with someone playing strictly by the rules on equipment etc what ever floats one's boat

 

My .02 FWIW hope I did not make any one mad and you guys will talk to me again

 

 

BIG STU I always enjoy reading your point of view. Agree with the wedge and putter BS.

 

Maybe us people who wouldn't mind playing non-conforming should have our own MGS little Japan and play what we want and not care

 

Great topic!!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

 

 

Just curious, what's your stance on chippers and other silly clubs that are definitely not confirming in any way shape or form?

 

 

Sent from carrier pigeon using MyGolfSpy

 

 

This is an awesome topic, thanks Stroker, for getting it out there.  I have thoroughly enjoyed the discussion the debate, and the various opinions and  biases we all have. 

 

Big Stu, at the end of the day, you are spot on- it is the individual playing that matters, and if he or she is using clubs or balls that make them play better, and it keeps them coming back, then all the better.

 

You bring up great points about clubs which were conforming when manufactured, but are no longer conforming because of this or that... and that if a club has not been tested it is judged as non-conforming until proven otherwise.  

 

I recall the heyday of the 1970's Philadelphia Flyers, and how players were learning to curve their (previously straight) hockey sticks, to get elevation and control on their shots.  The NHL rule book went from a handful of pages in the 1960's  to over 1000 pages (in part to cover all the fighting penalties, instigator penalties, etc) and to cover the curve of the blade and the size of goalie pads, chest protectors and the like. 

 

I remember teams trying to catch the opponent on an "illegally curved stick" which would result in the referee measuring a stick against a "legal" template - oh, but players go thru several sticks in a game, so which one to measure, etc.  Managing it became a challenge, and although the rule still exists, it is rarely if ever called, and some coaches have used the "illegal equipment" penalty at key moments in games to win a power play, and in some cases, swing the momentum of an entire series, including the 1993 Stanley Cup Finals.

 

If one is playing in competition, there should be standards and rules- and all should adhere to them. When you are playing alone or when it is you against the course- use what you like- perhaps easier to hit, more explosive faces would help those beginning the game to stick with it, and ultimately grow our game.

 

For myself, I will try to follow the rules as best I understand them, with the tools that are approved. It is good to know that others are looking at this, and whatever is best for the game is OK with me. That, of course, is open to interpretation, and just like belly buttons, everyone is entitled to his or her opinion!

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This presents some interesting questions, and a mixed response.

 

First, I am fundamentally against "non-conforming" equipment for use by adults in standard play as overseen by the standard governing bodies in sport. I think that everyone playing a sport should play by the same rules, with the same equipment- even in youth sport there is a requirement that the players all have conforming equipment - For example, in softball there are 5 major governing bodies that certify equipment such as bats, balls, safety equipment, gloves, etc- Every organization has a set of rules which promote consistent, fair, and safe play.

 

The same for Golf- the USGA and R&A have worked long and hard (and if the new rules changes are indeed implemented, it will make for a much easier set of rules to understand) to make the game fun, but also fair. By and large (PGA and professional events aside) the rules of golf are self imposed rules. Players penalize themselves (or not), and take appropriate relief as the circumstances dictate.

 

If you want to bang a shaved face driver on the range, more power to you - just as if you want to practice with a training aid or swing aid, or swing between two tees, or lay down an aiming stick - go for it. Just not on the course while playing. Rules are rules to promote consistent, fair and safe play. When you introduce a non-conforming piece of equipment (ball, club, training aid, etc) it changes the dynamics of the game, and takes it outside the bounds of "normal play."

 

What if some courses made the hole 6 inches wide? What if some high school basketball teams decided they were going to lower (or raise) the basket, or make the hoop smaller (think carnival hoop where the ball barely fits) - it would change the game fundamentally, and would be (in my humble opinion) be detrimental to both the spirit of the game and competition.

 

Now- I am all for providing youth the opportunity to play forward (such as the USGA Family tees program) and allowing some variances for physically challenged individuals- to help build and maintain interest in the game for youth and the physically challenged communities- but by and large, I believe that fundamentally, the challenge of player versus course requires a standard to be upheld- and equipment standards are part of that standard- otherwise how do you recognize a course record - recorded by an individual playing non conforming clubs, non-conforming ball, from family tees and giving him or herself 10 foot "gimme's"

 

Look, I am never going to set any course records- My fun comes from achieving a personal best or doing well against a very challenging course- that is about where the competition goes for me- but it is fun to be able to compare against your buddies or against the visiting club team without having to worry about every club, every ball and every opportunity for a "discrete foot wedge" from your opponent - or team-mate for that matter.

 

My two cents...

OK.. I'm seconding the vote to make the hole six inches wide 😂... Who's with me!

 

MDGolfHacker

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OK.. I'm seconding the vote to make the hole six inches wide ... Who's with me!

 

MDGolfHacker

I remember reading this awesome article about this course that hosted a best ball tournament with 13" massive holes. It seemed like it would've been a ton of fun.

 

From what I remember, teams still came in with normal scores for scrambles. Kind of interesting.

 

 

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I think it would be fun but for the rare times i do play in a tournament I want everyone to be using the same equipment. I also dont want ot use a hot faced driver then turn around and in competition use my regular driver. 

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Just curious, what's your stance on chippers and other silly clubs that are definitely not confirming in any way shape or form?

 

 

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Now a one sided chipper is conforming as long as the grooves are legal. Now this is where the USGA gets a gray area of the rules and one of the places I have a problem on. A two way chipper is deemed illegial because you can hit a ball from either side ok so be it. Then why under that rule is a Bulls Eye putter legal because you can putt from either side with it or chip from either side with it.

 

Personally I do not give two hoots if one carries a 2 way chipper . Ok is it any more morally legal than me being able to turn a right handed wedge on it's toe and hit it left handed or take a blade 5 iron and hit it left handed from the back of the blade. Note LOL I am not going to get into attempting to do that last shot with a CB club and both of the shots I described are perfectly legal under the rules. Note in my signature I carry a blade 2 iron and it ain't just for the low cut in the wind too

 

Now I do agree that under tournament stipulated rules they are equal and fair to all and rules are rules. My thought is that I have played for a long time and practiced those shots quite a bit and have became quite skilled at it. Others have maybe not had as good of an opportunity or skill level I have worked on. There the 2 way chipper of the heavy Callaway chipper may help them to enjoy the game more. My thought is if I was playing them for money and they needed those type clubs I can beat them anyhow

 

I have no problem what so ever with one's equipment whether it is conforming or not. Play what you want to. If that is all conforming equipment so be it I have no problem what so ever either way.

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I look at chippers and wide flanged sand clubs like the Cleveland Smart Sole wedge as fundamentally being no different than a hybrid. People hit hybrids because they're easier to hit than long irons. People hit chippers because they're easier to chip with than wedges.

 

Not sure there's a big difference.

 

If it helps someone have more fun playing, why the hell not?

 

 

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I agree with you. Reminds me of a few years back when we had the golf shop. Now we had a bunch of players every weekend and sometimes a couple of guys would try to high roll of course that did not scare me at all. I was still playing Mini Tour events around here during the week and gambling on the weekends. Now I was in the stage of experimenting with the broomstick for what ever reason but playing a conventional Zing 2 Ping in tournament comp. well I drug the broomstick out one weekend and put it into play. Ran the tables on the guys at Myrtle Beach National as in 5 birdies in a row. Now it was not really any gagger putts except 2 20 footers. One of the guys that lost started verbally raising holy hell about that putter. I told him it was legal and he said it ought not to be. Now I told him the 2 way chipper in his bag and the Intregra driver were not legal. And to further note if you want to ban legal clubs then why not ban the 3 hybrids and TM cavity back irons in your bag? Now at the time I was still playing my 1980 Macgregor VIP blade irons with the long irons and an older Tusamni metal driver and a Cally Steel Head 3 wood (an old one now). I told him you wanna play golf? I had several sets of blade irons in the shop and several persimmon woods.  Told him saddle up big boy and we will play those for $1000. Of course he did not bite. Next week I put the Zing back in the bag and waxed his butt again. He was a cash cow for me.  I think that is the only time I have ever said anything about the equipment someone chooses to play but in my own defense he started it.

 

Got him good a month later. The Golf Shop boys were playing one weekend at his home club. We had played a 2 day event the Tue and Wed before and they had the usual course painted lines for OB etc. He asked what they were and I told him. He replied "oh those wannabe pros like you" He was noted for cheating anyhow not just on equipment but other stuff. Bet him $1000 he could not break 100 from the tournament tees playing tournament rules as in the ball down etc. I also told him the rule book would be in hand. Even let him keep the non conforming driver and chipper. Man that got played up that Monday. Like the old days in Florida. Must have had 50 people watching with side bets and all. He was informed that on 14 when he teed off that it was his 100th stroke. I collected from him then and there. He never messed with me again and stopped playing with the Golf Shop boys

 

The funny thing about the driver was that he knew it was non conforming and I had built it for him and he had requested me build him one. He was a piece of work though. He got thrown out of the club for playing a ball OB off of a man's lawn and then got into a fight with the property owner over it. This was after he stopped playing with us

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I think it would be fun but for the rare times i do play in a tournament I want everyone to be using the same equipment. I also dont want ot use a hot faced driver then turn around and in competition use my regular driver. 

Actually FWIW everything in my signature bag now is conforming. I had not really given it any thought or cared for that matter until just now I realized it. I do not play stipulated comps any more except a few "outlaw" sanctioned events and the guys I mostly play with now do not give 2 hoots

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Ah it's all coming back to me now. I actually did the research because my buddy's dad used a chipper and was deadly with it. We razzed him big-time about using it but he didn't gaf. We were all shooting in the 90s and 100s at the time anyway. It's not the shape or grooves or two sidedness that makes it illegal. It's the fact that the two sides count as two separate clubs which would push most golfers over the 14-club limit. If you wanted to play it in tournament play, you could as long as you ditched something else.

 

I guess the thing about illegal clubs are people that use them are usually compensating for some weakness in their game. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a scratch golfer that even sees benefit to using one of those in a real tournament. Even the illegal distance balls and drivers are not as controllable as their confirming counterparts.

 

 

It's funny that Stu can throw money down with some schlub using these clubs and still take him down. It almost acts like a handicap system or points spread in and of itself.

 

I remember looking at my buddy's dad's chipper and actively decided not to pursue one because I'd only be hurting my own game. Just in the same way I've never putted out of a bunker. If you take short cuts and don't learn to do it the right way, you cap your ability level.

 

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Yeah... it's really too bad. I mean if Callaway can have a lineup that includes 10 (!) different sets of irons why not one that has a "non-conforming" sticker on it for the guy that just plays casually...

For sure, in my mind 5 sets is the ideal lineup: MB, players CB, GI, SGI and something in between GI and players CB (AP3 for example)

 

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Doesn't really pertain to the thread here but before I start pushing daisies I must play a round of golf and have a few drinks with BIG STU.

The stories this man has....💯

 

Save a round for me BIG STU...

 

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Doesn't really pertain to the thread here but before I start pushing daisies I must play a round of golf and have a few drinks with BIG STU.

The stories this man has....

 

Save a round for me BIG STU...

 

Sent from my Moto G (4) using MyGolfSpy mobile app

I'm with ya'll

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

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