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Tee It Forward campaign - Good? Bad? Ugly? (Other?)


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Played behind 2 young guys on Friday (Mid to late 20's maybe) at our local course. We had a 4 some, 2 old guys and a couple of younger ones, my son is a beginner so not so great.

 

Anyway, these guys are playing the tips, and most of the time their drives weren't even 200 yards.

Leaving themselves long shots that they couldn't even get to the greens. Held us up all day long.

 

Definitely should have been teeing forward.

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"No brainier" for an experienced golfer .. and a learned man like yourself :)

 

But how does a course actually get people to do this...?

Great question

 

You only have two sets of tees out each day on public access courses. Front or back. Come with your playing card or a letter from your pro and you are allowed to play the tips because the back is going big to be 62000-6400 yards long at Sea Level. That or the course just moves all of its tees up. That way everyone is happy - the guys think they are hitting it farther - but they are actually playing a course that's 300 yards shorter than listed. 6600 yards is much easier when it's actually 6300.

 

 

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Taylor Made Sim2  10.5 (Opened 1 click) Ventus Blue 5  R flex

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Tour Exotics 3 wood is in the bag because we are allowed 14 clubs.  It's a great club for pulling balls out of the water or from bushes - you never want to put your hand into anything in Florida unless you are absolutely certain that it's safe.  There are rare wind conditions when I might hit it off the tee on a few holes that I play.  

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I have noticed a lot of longer public courses have started putting their traditional mens tees forward. Either building more boxes or just placing them at the front.

 

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BTW I keep seeing the word challenge used. If golf is challenging from 6500 why is it not challenging from 6000?

 

Are you suddenly shooting sub par rounds from 6000 when you are struggling to break 80 from 6500?

 

Touring pros average 8 iron on par 4's. I need to play at less than 6000 to have that benefit. I'm a pretty accomplished golfer. I'm not having a sub par scoring average just because I've moved up. I'm shooting scores that are about three strokes lower if I move from 6500 to 6000. About 6 strokes lower if I move from 7000 to 6000. It's going to take me three strokes to cover 500 yards.

 

 

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Taylor Made Sim2  10.5 (Opened 1 click) Ventus Blue 5  R flex

Ping G410 5-9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Wilson D7 forged 6-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

Edison Wedges 54 and 59 KBS Tour Graphite 80's

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

Tour Exotics 3 wood is in the bag because we are allowed 14 clubs.  It's a great club for pulling balls out of the water or from bushes - you never want to put your hand into anything in Florida unless you are absolutely certain that it's safe.  There are rare wind conditions when I might hit it off the tee on a few holes that I play.  

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I say setup the tee box next to the green. Guarantee the golfer shoots below Par... Unless they have my short game in which case only moving the tee next to the hole will help 😂

 

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I am a firm believer in Tee It forward, I have lost lots of yardage on my drives over the years.  And even though I am still under 60, I am going to play the tee's that don't leave me long hybrid or fairway wood 2nd shots on the all of the par 4's, one or 2 longer ones OK but, not every one.  Sorry, its just not fun.

 

... Pretty much sums it up. Courses are designed to be played a specific way. Bunkers, water, trees are all positioned to reward a good shot or penalize a bad shot. They are not there to penalize a good shot! If a 191 carry over water means you have a 50-50 chance of making it with an iron or hybrid, you are playing the wrong tees from the course designers perspective. If you hit a big tree just off the tee box that is there for beauty, not a hazard, you are playing the wrong tees. 

 

... One of my pet peeves is getting paired up with someone that says "I play from the whites, where do you play?". Depending on the course I am usually 1 or 2 tees back and when they say "OK, I'll play from your tees". I try my best to encouragingly tell them they should play the tees they are most comfortable playing. Sometimes they seem to have a sigh of relief and say they will play the whites, sometimes they start out playing back tees and move up later in the round and sometimes they have a miserable day playing tees thy have no business playing. 

 

... A good course design lets you play most of the clubs in your bag. Nobody wants to hit driver - wedge on every hole and nobody wants to hit driver - hybrid or fairway wood on every hole. We all want a challenge, but it should be a challenge you can manage. Moving forward is just a great idea and allows many players to compete on a course the way it was designed to be played for the very first time. 

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A challenge you can manage is exactly right. I occasionally play with a group at my club that insists on playing from the blue tees.

 

I'm the youngest guy and close to the longest. There will be five par 4's that I have to hit fairway wood or 4 hybrid into from those tees and a par 5 where I might have hybrid on my 3rd shot depending on the wind.

 

I can break 80 about 1/4 of the time but it is no fun. I️ I suppose they hit all of their clubs because they are hitting short or mid irons on their third shots into par 4's and hybrids on holes designed for short iron approaches.

 

Once in a while is okay but it's not really fun.

 

 

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Taylor Made Sim2  10.5 (Opened 1 click) Ventus Blue 5  R flex

Ping G410 5-9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Wilson D7 forged 6-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

Edison Wedges 54 and 59 KBS Tour Graphite 80's

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

Tour Exotics 3 wood is in the bag because we are allowed 14 clubs.  It's a great club for pulling balls out of the water or from bushes - you never want to put your hand into anything in Florida unless you are absolutely certain that it's safe.  There are rare wind conditions when I might hit it off the tee on a few holes that I play.  

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BTW I keep seeing the word challenge used. If golf is challenging from 6500 why is it not challenging from 6000?

 

Are you suddenly shooting sub par rounds from 6000 when you are struggling to break 80 from 6500?

 

Touring pros average 8 iron on par 4's. I need to play at less than 6000 to have that benefit. I'm a pretty accomplished golfer. I'm not having a sub par scoring average just because I've moved up. I'm shooting scores that are about three strokes lower if I move from 6500 to 6000. About 6 strokes lower if I move from 7000 to 6000. It's going to take me three strokes to cover 500 yards.

 

 

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So our group played North Hampton near Yulee/Fernandina Beach on Friday.  Hadn't played it in about 3 years.  Nice track, but among the more difficult in the area.  One challenge is the difference between the White and Blue tees.  Our home course is 6,100 and when we travel to other courses, we play the tees closest to that yardage.  Their White tees are 5,850 and the Blues are 6,300.  We might have opted for the Blues, but the few of us who had played it before remembered how tough it was from the Blues.  We offered to let the lower handicap/big sticks play the blues with the handicap adjustment (3 strokes for most of them), but they all opted to play the whites with the rest of us.  The senior pro in our group, 0 handicap, did shoot a 70, but the rest of us found the 'short' White tees to be all we could handle.  The course had a 550 yd par 5, and a couple of longish par 3s and 4s from the 'short' tees, with the difference made up with a number of short, but very difficult par 4s.  To get short irons into the greens on those short holes required very precise placement of 200 yd tee shots.  We had a great time from these tees and no one felt cheated by playing up.  

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... For those of you that still like a challenge, but struggle with holes that are just too long, it can be difficult choosing the right tees. But unless you are posting for a handicap, you can always mix and match tees to allow you to enjoy the course without it being too easy, hitting wedge into every aren or too difficult hitting hybrids/woods into every green. 

 
Course-Rating-and-Slope-1.jpg
 
 
... This course is a links style course and it is usually pretty windy making some of the longer holes very difficult. Lets say you are caught between the white and blue tees. Just circle your scorecard before teeing of and play your own golf course. For instance you could play the course like this at 6263 yds and still have a challenge on some of the longer holes:

1 Blue 371
2 Blue 339
3 White 138
4 White 479
5 Blue 367
6 Blue 142
7 White 407
8 Blue 488
9 Blue 375

10 Blue 362
11 White 382
12 White 483
13 Blue 129
14 Blue 362
15 White 507
16 White 402
17 White 140
18 Blue 390
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... For those of you that still like a challenge, but struggle with holes that are just too long, it can be difficult choosing the right tees. But unless you are posting for a handicap, you can always mix and match tees to allow you to enjoy the course without it being too easy, hitting wedge into every aren or too difficult hitting hybrids/woods into every green.

Course-Rating-and-Slope-1.jpg

 

 

... This course is a links style course and it is usually pretty windy making some of the longer holes very difficult. Lets say you are caught between the white and blue tees. Just circle your scorecard before teeing of and play your own golf course. For instance you could play the course like this at 6263 yds and still have a challenge on some of the longer holes:

 

1 Blue 371

2 Blue 339

3 White 138

4 White 479

5 Blue 367

6 Blue 142

7 White 407

8 Blue 488

9 Blue 375

 

10 Blue 362

11 White 382

12 White 483

13 Blue 129

14 Blue 362

15 White 507

16 White 402

17 White 140

18 Blue 390

I've done that it works really well. I've also played 9 from one then switched on the other 9 when I was sick of getting beat up by the course.

 

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That's what I'm talking about Chisag my friends and I do exactly what you are suggesting. We want a par 4 or perhaps 2 over 400, a par 3 in the 180-200 range and a reachable par 5.

 

Most of all we want fun!!!!

 

 

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Taylor Made Sim2  10.5 (Opened 1 click) Ventus Blue 5  R flex

Ping G410 5-9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Wilson D7 forged 6-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

Edison Wedges 54 and 59 KBS Tour Graphite 80's

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

Tour Exotics 3 wood is in the bag because we are allowed 14 clubs.  It's a great club for pulling balls out of the water or from bushes - you never want to put your hand into anything in Florida unless you are absolutely certain that it's safe.  There are rare wind conditions when I might hit it off the tee on a few holes that I play.  

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My course has 4 sets of tees

 

Championship - Black

Men's Tees - Blue

Senior Tees - White

Women's Tees - Red

 

All of our MGA events are played from the blue tees unless you are over 60, then you play white.

 

My issue is the distances....the Blues play 6834, the whites play 6053....to me that's a huge jump.....6800 is really too long for me, all the par 5's are layup holes, a few of the 4's are a hybrid for the second shot and 3 of the 4 par 3's are right at or over 200 yds.

 

On the other hand 6000 maybe a little too short, if I'm playing for fun I usually play a mix of tees....whites on the 3's and 5's and blues on the 4's.

 

It's no fun hitting driver/hybrid into every hole

 

On the positive side I maybe changing clubs in the off season and the new club has 2 courses both with 5 sets of tees

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  • 2 weeks later...

Great question

 

You only have two sets of tees out each day on public access courses. Front or back. Come with your playing card or a letter from your pro and you are allowed to play the tips because the back is going big to be 62000-6400 yards long at Sea Level. That or the course just moves all of its tees up. That way everyone is happy - the guys think they are hitting it farther - but they are actually playing a course that's 300 yards shorter than listed. 6600 yards is much easier when it's actually 6300.

 

 

Of course! Brilliant, Sir!!

 

I've always thought there should be a sign next to each set of tees indicating the distance to the middle of the hole's "landing zone". As I understand it, and let's say we're considering a Par 4 ... (in general) a hole has a designed landing area for the tee shot which then becomes the designed approach shot area ... and the sets of tees are set back from the landing zone at distances to roughly correlate to different driving distances of different handicap/ability groups.

 

No, not that this would prevent anyone with an ego from going all the way back .. but it may help out the thoughtful golfers in deciding their best shot / best club to use on that hole -- to give them the best chance of getting into the fairway .. or carrying a forced carry in front of the tee box.....

(which .. who knows .. may help speed up pace of play?)

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  • 2 months later...

Lots of sandbagging in that group!!

 

 

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You said it my friend- 7 days of golf, and I didn't win 1 dollar- my natural birdies were cut by guys getting two pops- crazy - mind you I was carrying a slightly lower index than I should have ( shot an unusual 76 in August and it impacted the my entire 'cap) but also did not play particularly well, although not as poorly as one might expect- basically 6th out of 20, but no $$.

 

 

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Mind you- we went out yesterday- weather wasn't great, but at least it was not snowing!!!  Club has two sets of tees in the winter (vice 5 during the spring - fall season) so you are either back or front, and the group that I was coupled with was playing front- so did I.  Shot a 77, won the pot, but am wondering how that will affect my index?!?!?  The slope on the modified course was 115, so it should not have that much affect, but one never knows. 

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Driver :callaway-small: Callaway Mavrik 105 set to 9.5, square, Aldila Rogue White 130 MSI 60G Stiff shaft
#3 Wood  :callaway-small: Callaway FT Tour 13 degree neutral setup, Fuijkara 370 Stiff Shaft
Hybrid  :cobra-small:  18 Degree King Cobra Baffler pro, Baffler Stiff shaft
4-PW :titelist-small: Titlest 714 AP2, Standard loft and lie, MGS S Shafts
:benhogan-small: 53, 57 degree loft Hogan Equalizer wedges
1962  :wilson_staff_small: Wilson "Sandy Andy" sand wedge with HUGE bounce!
Putter MLA Pro Classic
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... Pretty much sums it up. Courses are designed to be played a specific way. Bunkers, water, trees are all positioned to reward a good shot or penalize a bad shot. They are not there to penalize a good shot! If a 191 carry over water means you have a 50-50 chance of making it with an iron or hybrid, you are playing the wrong tees from the course designers perspective. If you hit a big tree just off the tee box that is there for beauty, not a hazard, you are playing the wrong tees. 

 

... One of my pet peeves is getting paired up with someone that says "I play from the whites, where do you play?". Depending on the course I am usually 1 or 2 tees back and when they say "OK, I'll play from your tees". I try my best to encouragingly tell them they should play the tees they are most comfortable playing. Sometimes they seem to have a sigh of relief and say they will play the whites, sometimes they start out playing back tees and move up later in the round and sometimes they have a miserable day playing tees thy have no business playing. 

 

... A good course design lets you play most of the clubs in your bag. Nobody wants to hit driver - wedge on every hole and nobody wants to hit driver - hybrid or fairway wood on every hole. We all want a challenge, but it should be a challenge you can manage. Moving forward is just a great idea and allows many players to compete on a course the way it was designed to be played for the very first time. 

 

The challenge with our winter setup - one front set (both Women/Senior and white) and one back set (blue/ black) presents a challenge in that I only used my driver once.  On most holes I am hitting a hybrid or iron off the tee, and in one case a 5 iron put me thru the fairway and into the fairway beyond...  I was teeing off with my lob wedge on most par 3's.  Shot 77, primarily due to a few dumb mistakes and a few lipouts - but I enjoy the challenge of using all the clubs in the bag, not just a 5 iron, wedge and putter...Did like winning the pot, however!!!

What's in the bag?
 
Driver :callaway-small: Callaway Mavrik 105 set to 9.5, square, Aldila Rogue White 130 MSI 60G Stiff shaft
#3 Wood  :callaway-small: Callaway FT Tour 13 degree neutral setup, Fuijkara 370 Stiff Shaft
Hybrid  :cobra-small:  18 Degree King Cobra Baffler pro, Baffler Stiff shaft
4-PW :titelist-small: Titlest 714 AP2, Standard loft and lie, MGS S Shafts
:benhogan-small: 53, 57 degree loft Hogan Equalizer wedges
1962  :wilson_staff_small: Wilson "Sandy Andy" sand wedge with HUGE bounce!
Putter MLA Pro Classic
:titelist-small: Titlist ProV 1, ProV 1x

Currently Gaming "Costco Kirkland Signature Tour Performance" balls

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Thinking about this thread I will be at Copperhead in a couple of weeks. Touring pros love it but quite honestly there are two holes that are very unfair for the average golfer or for that matter shorter good amateur.

 

Regardless of the tee you play from you are going to have 180-200 over water. For me that's a hybrid or 3 wood. For a touring pro it's a 5 or 6 iron.

 

I actually prefer the Island course which the pros hate - too tight for them - it was used for an NCAA championship to howling complaints.

 

 

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Taylor Made Sim2  10.5 (Opened 1 click) Ventus Blue 5  R flex

Ping G410 5-9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Wilson D7 forged 6-GW -  Mamiya recoil 460 R flex

Edison Wedges 54 and 59 KBS Tour Graphite 80's

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

Tour Exotics 3 wood is in the bag because we are allowed 14 clubs.  It's a great club for pulling balls out of the water or from bushes - you never want to put your hand into anything in Florida unless you are absolutely certain that it's safe.  There are rare wind conditions when I might hit it off the tee on a few holes that I play.  

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I usually play the back tees within reason. I have solid distance so anything up to 6800 is manageable. I'll push 7000 but if i see all the 3s are over 200 I'll mix tee boxes, that's just not fun hitting my biggest club on all 4 or 5 par 3s. I'll move up when i play with my friends or wife. Sometimes I'll play the front tees with her. That's really eye opening.

 

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There is quite a bit of discussion regarding the impact of slow play on the game.   It seems to me that people playing from tees beyond their playing capabilities may be a contributing factor.   Unfortunately, the effort to change that may be trying to close the stable door long after the horse is out.   That horse is that tee use typically is based on tee labels.   Championship tees, regular men's tees, senior tees and ladies tees.  How many young bucks want to be seen playing from the old coot senior tees and no man wants to be seen on the ladies tees. 

 

I have no real idea how to change tee selection from labels to abilities.   Perhaps, a sign a lot like Bethpage Black.  A sign on the tips reading if you can't break 80, don't even think about it.  On the other tees, have signs suggesting use based on handicaps or typical scores.  But then they will just be suggestions, enforcement is going to be impossible, nor do I think courses will want to upset its players.  

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There is quite a bit of discussion regarding the impact of slow play on the game. It seems to me that people playing from tees beyond their playing capabilities may be a contributing factor. Unfortunately, the effort to change that may be trying to close the stable door long after the horse is out. That horse is that tee use typically is based on tee labels. Championship tees, regular men's tees, senior tees and ladies tees. How many young bucks want to be seen playing from the old coot senior tees and no man wants to be seen on the ladies tees.

 

I have no real idea how to change tee selection from labels to abilities. Perhaps, a sign a lot like Bethpage Black. A sign on the tips reading if you can't break 80, don't even think about it. On the other tees, have signs suggesting use based on handicaps or typical scores. But then they will just be suggestions, enforcement is going to be impossible, nor do I think courses will want to upset its players.

Yes! Completely agree with those ideas (had posted something not too dissimilar above) ... get rid of the traditional "labels" and MARK each set of tees with signage conveying some information to _guide_ each player in choosing the right teeing ground for them and their game.

 

Signs could possibly include markings like on ski trails (eg. easiest .. Intermediate .. expert .. double black diamond) and also Yardage ranges into the designed landing area.

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..Callaway Super Hybrid 23 (PX Catalyst) and Big Bertha 19 5H (Recoil ZTR)
..PXG 0211 6i-GW (Mitsubishi MMT) 
..Cleveland CBX2 54 and CBX 60 (both Rotex graphite)
..Evnroll ER5 (33", 385g, P2 Reflex Tour)
..all in a Datrek bag on a Bag Boy Quad XL push an MGI Zip Navigator electric cart.

Forum Member tester for the ExPutt Putting Simulator

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