Sad state of our Society

[PlaidJacket]

Again this morning I'm reading an article on Global Golf Post. This time it's about male golf coaches being weary of teaching girls  - women because they are afraid of being accused of something inappropriate. As in touching. The article is worth reading if you get a chance.

Go to www.Golbalgolfpost and you'll find the article.

[ddryan]

Oh so right.  My wife used to warn me about offering fellow students a ride on cold and rainy days- "you never know what someone might accuse you of - when you are alone in a car with them"  I would offer as long as there were two or three (most students were younger,  I was returning to school after 10 years on active duty in the military)  but  I heeded her advice and never had an issue.  Thank God!

[Kenny B]

This is a big issue.  The teaching pro at my course has several boys and girls that are very good players; one girl is 13 and ranked nationally.  He is a good teacher and a great guy, but I could see something like this happening.

 

This year my wife moved her 501c3 non-profit to teach H.S. kids employability skills into a new building that was renovated for her and 4H.  She is required to get insurance, and because her non-profit works with kids, she has to pay extra for this kind of protection.

[kardboard.kid]

That has been on my radar since I started hiring interns. I'm located in the back of the plant and not visible unless at my door. I love the privacy, however that has created other issues. It really says much on the state of the society we live in.

 

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[PlaidJacket]

That's interesting Kenny.

As you might have read here in the forum I'm starting the First Tee where I live. We're also forming a nonprofit. It'll be interesting to see what our insurance premiums will be.

[Rickp]

Well unfortunately you guys are right on. I coached girls softball for 8 years when my daughters were young. I was very careful to never touch one of these young girls. I never wanted any inappropriate “touching” problems with any parents. It all worked out no problems, great games and teams. A few of the girls had decent high school and college careers. Was a lot of fun for my daughters and me and I was able to spend quality time with my kids.

 

 

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[TBT]

It's terrible that this is what our society has come to.

[revkev]

Any of us who work with kids or vulnerable people must constantly be on the watch and also heavily insured.

 

I️ would suggest that it no longer matters if it's a female or male person.

 

There is a window in my Study, it has blinds that I️ keep half drawn, the person whom I'm meeting with sits across the room from me with his/her back to the window. I️ have to meet with people alone. It's an expectation. In fact I'm meeting with a 14 year old girl this afternoon.

 

A golf coach or teacher might be wise to never offer a one on one lesson.

 

Haven't a clue as to why my spell check is changing the first person singular pronoun the way it is. Thoughts? Suggested helps?

 

 

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[chemclub]

I agree with everything that was said above.

 

I will only add that this kind of thing isn't just people being overly cautious or hysterical. Just look to the recent revelations regarding Harvey Weinstein, Mark Halperin, Michael Oreskes, Roger Ailes, Kevin Spacey, Bill O'Reilly, etc. Call me naive I guess but I have been kind of shocked by how widespread it is for men in power to abuse it to take advantage of women. I'm sure some women on this forum could tell me just how naive I am. Certainly a case of a few bad apples but wow.

[Rickp]

I agree with everything that was said above.

 

I will only add that this kind of thing isn't just people being overly cautious or hysterical. Just look to the recent revelations regarding Harvey Weinstein, Mark Halperin, Michael Oreskes, Roger Ailes, Kevin Spacey, Bill O'Reilly, etc. Call me naive I guess but I have been kind of shocked by how widespread it is for men in power to abuse it to take advantage of women. I'm sure some women on this forum could tell me just how naive I am. Certainly a case of a few bad apples but wow.

You and me both, I had no idea it was that bad.

 

 

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[MDGolfHacker]

You and me both, I had no idea it was that bad.

 

 

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My guess is there will be more names put out there and it's going to get worse before it gets better .  Truly a sad state of our entertainment industry and nation...

 

MDGolfHacker

[tony@CIC]

My guess is there will be more names put out there and it's going to get worse before it gets better . Truly a sad state of our entertainment industry and nation...

 

MDGolfHacker

I agree. We're seeing this everyday now with a new name.

 

 

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[Filtr]

The only problem I have is these are allegations a not proven yet in court if they have happened punish them. But I was a coach one time I would not coach anymore because you never know how many years you may have to defended your self. 30 or 50 years ago someone my take offence and accuse you of something that you can not even remember doing. Even at work you need at least three people for witness now a days.

 

 

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[Rickp]

The only problem I have is these are allegations a not proven yet in court if they have happened punish them. But I was a coach one time I would not coach anymore because you never know how many years you may have to defended your self. 30 or 50 years ago someone my take offence and accuse you of something that you can not even remember doing. Even at work you need at least three people for witness now a days.

 

 

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That's the truth. 30 years ago I could have a female in my office for many different reasons. Over last 10 or so years if it was normal business discussion my office door was wide open. If it was a review or other business that required a closed door I had another person in room , preferably female. I got gunshy after a friend of mine got dragged thru hell from false allegations thru disgruntled female employee.

 

 

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[silver & black]

I'm not saying the recent allegations  from a number of women are false, but this s**t is getting out of hand!

[Rickp]

I'm not saying the recent allegations from a number of women are false, but this s**t is getting out of hand!

Unfortunately most of the allegations are true, too many I'm afraid.

 

 

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[tony@CIC]

I've seen it at work (a lot). So just the tip of the iceberg

 

 

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[silver & black]

Unfortunately most of the allegations are true, too many I'm afraid.

 

 

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I know most of them are true, unfortunately.

 

This is probably not going to go over well, but I'm throwing it out there anyway:

 

Why now? Why not when it happened? Maybe  you (said women) could have saved someone else from being a victim if you came forward when it happened. Could it be that you weren't going to jeopardize your lucrative career because your were groped? You figured, what the hell, I can take it for all the money and fame I'm going to get. Now that your career is no longer what it once was, it's okay to do this now? Somehow, that doesn't fly.... at least to me.

 

I have to add here that, I in no way condone what happened to any of these women, nor do I think the men shouldn't be held accountable...... I have daughters myself. I just think this is a more complicated issue than "he said, she said". It seems to me that there is responsibility on both sides.

 

I have told both of my daughters that if they encountered this at their place of employment that, they had better report it immediately. If you don't, you have to share some culpability for the continuation of this kind of behavior. 

 

If the powers that be on here feel this crossed the line, please delete my post.

[chemclub]

I know most of them are true, unfortunately.

 

This is probably not going to go over well, but I'm throwing it out there anyway:

 

Why now? Why not when it happened? Maybe  you (said women) could have saved someone else from being a victim if you came forward when it happened. Could it be that you weren't going to jeopardize your lucrative career because your were groped? You figured, what the hell, I can take it for all the money and fame I'm going to get. Now that your career is no longer what it once was, it's okay to do this now? Somehow, that doesn't fly.... at least to me.

 

I have to add here that, I in no way condone what happened to any of these women, nor do I think the men shouldn't be held accountable...... I have daughters myself. I just think this is a more complicated issue than "he said, she said". It seems to me that there is responsibility on both sides.

 

I completely understand what you are saying, and if you are a man who has always been taken seriously why wouldn't you think someone should have just said something.

 

But the he-said she-said nature of it means a huge disincentive to women reporting it—especially when you are accusing a male coworker who is in a higher power position than you.

 

I think it is also believable that this kind of behavior was perceived as acceptable in a previous generation. Women were likely told some combination of it was their fault and boys will be boys. That kind of culture permeates down so that older female employees tell the younger ones not to make a fuss and tough it out. 

 

Eventually, this leads to women thinking they are the only one and no one will support your claim so you risk not only your job but also your credibility. 

 

That is the reason that these allegation create an avalanche. People feel they are alone until one person speaks up and then the entire history of people affected speak up.

 

In the end, all of these examples have shown me that it takes the word of multiple women to equal the word of one man in power.

 

As a father of 2 daughters and someone who was taught to respect women (and everyone) I won't make excuses for any of these pigs.  

 

I have told both of my daughters that if they encountered this at their place of employment that, they had better report it immediately. If you don't, you have to share some culpability for the continuation of this kind of behavior. 

 

I think the culture is changing so that this kind of report would be taken seriously so bravo.

[silver & black]

I agree with you that this is a generational thing. I do understand why they might not have come out at the time it happened. But, still...................

 

I hope you're right about the culture changing, but I won't hold my breath. Like it or not, a large percentage of men just don't get it.

[Rickp]

I know most of them are true, unfortunately.

 

This is probably not going to go over well, but I'm throwing it out there anyway:

 

Why now? Why not when it happened? Maybe you (said women) could have saved someone else from being a victim if you came forward when it happened. Could it be that you weren't going to jeopardize your lucrative career because your were groped? You figured, what the hell, I can take it for all the money and fame I'm going to get. Now that your career is no longer what it once was, it's okay to do this now? Somehow, that doesn't fly.... at least to me.

 

I have to add here that, I in no way condone what happened to any of these women, nor do I think the men shouldn't be held accountable...... I have daughters myself. I just think this is a more complicated issue than "he said, she said". It seems to me that there is responsibility on both sides.

 

I have told both of my daughters that if they encountered this at their place of employment that, they had better report it immediately. If you don't, you have to share some culpability for the continuation of this kind of behavior.

 

If the powers that be on here feel this crossed the line, please delete my post.

I don't have a problem.

I've got 2 daughters & 3 granddaughters.

 

 

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[Rickp]

I completely understand what you are saying, and if you are a man who has always been taken seriously why wouldn't you think someone should have just said something.

 

But the he-said she-said nature of it means a huge disincentive to women reporting it—especially when you are accusing a male coworker who is in a higher power position than you.

 

I think it is also believable that this kind of behavior was perceived as acceptable in a previous generation. Women were likely told some combination of it was their fault and boys will be boys. That kind of culture permeates down so that older female employees tell the younger ones not to make a fuss and tough it out.

 

Eventually, this leads to women thinking they are the only one and no one will support your claim so you risk not only your job but also your credibility.

 

That is the reason that these allegation create an avalanche. People feel they are alone until one person speaks up and then the entire history of people affected speak up.

 

In the end, all of these examples have shown me that it takes the word of multiple women to equal the word of one man in power.

 

As a father of 2 daughters and someone who was taught to respect women (and everyone) I won't make excuses for any of these pigs.

 

 

I think the culture is changing so that this kind of report would be taken seriously so bravo.

Hope so.

 

 

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[Brian A]

As a referee for young kids in USA Hockey sanctioned leagues (havnt found one that isnt) the clearances required are a lot as well. Add in the state of PA requires a special check if you're going to be around kids. I know a few guys that just said it wasnt worth the hassel