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Hear is the question ~ does it matter if the same player got to the top of his backswing position 3 different ways?

 

1. Takes club back inside

2. Takes club outside

3. Takes club back technically correct

 

All backswings get this player in the same exact spot at the top of his Swing.

 

Spine angle is the same stance distance from ball same club being used etc....everything is the same.

 

Would it matter? Interested to hear some thoughts on this, thanks

 

 

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I'm no instructor. But I'm going to say no. That the only thing that matters is what the clubface is doing at impact. So in that sense backswing and downswing don't really matter except for maybe 12 inches, the 6" before impact and the 6" after impact.

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In my case it matters. If I don't take the club back to a certain position when I bring the club down the face will be open and that equals a slice for me. The position of my club/hands at the top of my backswing is something my instructor and I have been working on.

 

 

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That's a cool question - actually I'm going with yes. It matters because the additional energy that it takes to adjust the swing to get the club back on plane will reduce club head speed some.

 

But that's an educated and experienced guess. I've often been a good enough ball striker to have a very low single digit handicap. I've always dropped the club inside significantly enough to be called a loop. I've never been overly long no doubt because of the wasted motion.

 

 

 

 

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Hear is the question ~ does it matter if the same player got to the top of his backswing position 3 different ways?

 

1. Takes club back inside

2. Takes club outside

3. Takes club back technically correct

 

All backswings get this player in the same exact spot at the top of his Swing.

 

Spine angle is the same stance distance from ball same club being used etc....everything is the same.

 

Would it matter? Interested to hear some thoughts on this, thanks

 

 

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Absolutely not. The ball only knows face angle and path angle at impact. Whatever it is you do before that moment of impact doesn't matter.

 

That doesn't mean that there isn't a potential cause and effect with certain motions or positions, but you could absolutely hit good golf shots doing any of the things that you've mentioned

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I am going to go with no it doesn't matter.  That being said,  I believe the golf swing is a series of events and that the events need to happen in a sequence and by doing one of the moves you indicate,  you have to make a compensation to keep the club in the right position at impact.  

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It doesn't matter for me because I never take it back the same way twice.  :wacko: 

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Yes it matters.

 

But I am going to switch things up a bit and say your hypothetical situation actually isn't possible.

 

I believe the golf swing is a series of events and that the events need to happen in a sequence and by doing one of the moves you indicate,  you have to make a compensation to keep the club in the right position at impact.  

 

As cnosil said above, the swing involves a sequence of events to get into position. 

 

This is referred to as the kinetic chain... When a joint and/or muscle is in motion, it creates a chain of events that affects the movement of neighboring joints and muscles. 

 

Taking the club back inside is a different kinetic chain from taking the club outside. Thus, even if the position looks nearly identical at the top, different muscles will be under different tension (and to different extents) at the top position depending on which kinetic chain they took to get there. (Unless you pause each swing at the top and relax and re-adjust into a specific position, which is not how we think about or execute the back swing in golf)

 

Thus, the restoring force of the those muscles on the downswing as they contract/relax will produce different results.

 

Jim Furyk... Ryan Moore...

Jason Day... Rickie Fowler

Mine... Yours

Many different ways, which one is wrong/right?


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Now, the variability of golfers in terms of flexibility/coordination/athleticism means I can't tell you that taking it inside produces a certain result in the downswing exactly, as Shankster correctly points out above.

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Yes it matters.

But I am going to switch things up a bit and say your hypothetical situation actually isn't possible.

 

 

 

As cnosil said above, the swing involves a sequence of events to get into position.

This is referred to as the kinetic chain... When a joint and/or muscle is in motion, it creates a chain of events that affects the movement of neighboring joints and muscles.

Taking the club back inside is a different kinetic chain from taking the club outside. Thus, even if the position looks nearly identical at the top, different muscles will be under different tension (and to different extents) at the top position depending on which kinetic chain they took to get there. (Unless you pause each swing at the top and relax and re-adjust into a specific position, which is not how we think about or execute the back swing in golf)

Thus, the restoring force of the those muscles on the downswing as they contract/relax will produce different results.

 

 

Now, the variability of golfers in terms of flexibility/coordination/athleticism means I can't tell you that taking it inside produces a certain result in the downswing exactly, as Shankster correctly points out above.

mo Norman took club inside on backswing but impact dead flush - Freddy couples played with open stance hit a draw kuchar over the top pull cut hogan only 8degrees up from shaft plane at the top of his Swing same as stricker,,,,,my point is many many different ways to skin a cat in this game - all great ball strikers at impact look pretty much the same.

 

 

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That's a cool question - actually I'm going with yes. It matters because the additional energy that it takes to adjust the swing to get the club back on plane will reduce club head speed some.

 

But that's an educated and experienced guess. I've often been a good enough ball striker to have a very low single digit handicap. I've always dropped the club inside significantly enough to be called a loop. I've never been overly long no doubt because of the wasted motion.

 

 

 

 

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rev correct bigger shoulder turn with restricted hip turn greater distance of course L 4/5 lumbar feels that over time

 

 

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Absolutely not. The ball only knows face angle and path angle at impact. Whatever it is you do before that moment of impact doesn't matter.

 

That doesn't mean that there isn't a potential cause and effect with certain motions or positions, but you could absolutely hit good golf shots doing any of the things that you've mentioned

agree 100 percent - look at ray floyd s Swing what the ,,,,is was that but that guy could play

 

 

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I would think it has to matter to some extent, some of the power is in the torso loading vs the arms being dominant but I have no proof to offer to that fact. I think how you set your club has an impact on how you start downward which can have many different effects on the ball.

 

 

Great topic.

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Jim Furyk... Ryan Moore...

 

Jason Day... Rickie Fowler

 

Mine... Yours

 

Many different ways, which one is wrong/right?

 

 

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Thanks - illustrates my point perfectly - Couples was wildly inconsistent and struggled with his back and consistency. Furyk struggles with consistency.

 

At any rate the question wasn't can you do it differently and still play, even at a high level. Obviously you can.

 

The question was does it matter. I would continue to maintain that the more efficient the swing the better.

 

Since we aren't machines we are going to have flaws in our swings - some of those flaws may be successfully overcome or put into sequence well enough to produce good shots.

 

As my Pro loves to say, “Miller Barber was a great golfer. But very few people are athletically gifted enough to swing a club like him and get away with it.” Oh and since he knows me well enough he adds, “And you're not one of them.”

 

 

 

 

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mo Norman took club inside on backswing but impact dead flush - Freddy couples played with open stance hit a draw kuchar over the top pull cut hogan only 8degrees up from shaft plane at the top of his Swing same as stricker,,,,,my point is many many different ways to skin a cat in this game - all great ball strikers at impact look pretty much the same.

 

 

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I completely agree with you but that wasn't how I interpreted your original question.

 

If your question was can you hit a draw if you take it back inside/outside/on-plane, the answer would of course be yes—"many different ways to skin a cat." But folks who have inside/outside/on-plane backswings will all have different kinetic chains to bring the club to the impact position—with a club face closed to swing path in the case of a draw. 

 

But your question was about position at the top for different backswings and not about the look at impact.

 

Each unique kinetic chain in the backswing necessitates a unique kinetic chain to return to the impact position of all great ball strikers. Your most successful swing will be based on a kinetic chain that feels most natural to you.

 

To clarify, when I said...

 

"Thus, the restoring force of the those muscles on the downswing as they contract/relax will produce different results." I was referring to the fact that a different kinetic chain and/or swing motion would be needed to reach the desired impact position. Not that each kinetic chain necessarily produces a draw/fade.

 

To be clear - this is way more biomechanical thought than you need to play golf. Step up and hit the frickin' ball. Your body knows how to move.

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Lets not forget Chi-Chi Rodriquez... that around the body sweeping swing that If I tried I would absolutely pull into the left woods or out of bounds... 

http://www.golfchannel.com/topics/people/chi-chi-rodriguez.htm

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I completely agree with you but that wasn't how I interpreted your original question.

 

If your question was can you hit a draw if you take it back inside/outside/on-plane, the answer would of course be yes—"many different ways to skin a cat." But folks who have inside/outside/on-plane backswings will all have different kinetic chains to bring the club to the impact position—with a club face closed to swing path in the case of a draw.

 

But your question was about position at the top for different backswings and not about the look at impact.

 

Each unique kinetic chain in the backswing necessitates a unique kinetic chain to return to the impact position of all great ball strikers. Your most successful swing will be based on a kinetic chain that feels most natural to you.

 

To clarify, when I said...

 

 

"Thus, the restoring force of the those muscles on the downswing as they contract/relax will produce different results." I was referring to the fact that a different kinetic chain and/or swing motion would be needed to reach the desired impact position. Not that each kinetic chain necessarily produces a draw/fade.

 

To be clear - this is way more biomechanical thought than you need to play golf. Step up an hit the frickin' ball. Your body knows how to move.

correct

 

 

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My teacher told me the most important thing in the backswing is width.And swinging on a tilted plane not flat.Those two really make the path into the ball more manageable.Mess those two up and it will be compensations and one round only swing tips forever

Keep it in the short stuff

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I am going to go with no it doesn't matter.  That being said,  I believe the golf swing is a series of events and that the events need to happen in a sequence and by doing one of the moves you indicate,  you have to make a compensation to keep the club in the right position at impact.  

This is a great answer.  No it doesn't matter but I find when I take the club to much to the inside, I swing too far from the inside and will hook the ball.  My swing thought is always straight back, straight through.  For me it helps in squaring club face.  

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I say it doesn't. As others have stated, if your getting into a square impact position right before you hit the ball what does it matter how you route your takeaway and downswing. Now I will say that takeaway and downswing path may make it harder or easier to get back to a square impact though.

 

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I wouldn't think so, I think the most important thing is having a consistent and repeatable swing, so you have a very good idea of where your ball is most likely to go....My biggest issue. Yes you may lose some energy and power and distance, but if you can control and play your game within that flight of your ball, I would think that's what matters most.

For me it's just trying to simplify it with as few swing thoughts and actions as possible.

I have a pretty short backswing, , that's because I found if I try to go to far backed the top, I lose control.

I'm not a great player, and can't work the ball, Just try to play to my tendencies.

 

 

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I'd be curious to see opinions being offered based on whether the person posting works with a teacher or not. I suspect those who trust an instructor would be more inclined to say yes and those who don't take lessons from a live teacher or who have had a bad experience with a teacher would be more inclined to say no.

 

As I stated earlier it's a great topic.

 

 

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All backswings get this player in the same exact spot at the top of his Swing.

 

Spine angle is the same stance distance from ball same club being used etc....everything is the same.

I'd say it doesn't matter.  The important part my reasoning is that everything is exactly the same.  In that case, all of the previous kinematic sequencing is history, the muscle tensions would be the same, the positions the same, the weight distribution the same, and its a matter of moving forward.  As others have said, the ball only cares about the velocity, direction, and orientation of the clubhead at impact.

On the other hand, if you want to do any motion consistently, the simplest motion is probably the most repeatable.  There lies the argument that the path back DOES matter, because complicating the backswing motion seems likely to introduce increased variability.  Complicated motions, in my mind, make it very unlikely that they'll result in an identical result at the top of the backswing.  Which all makes the initial question moot, because the first premise, identical top of backswing positions, can't be met.

And to add in the factor that revkev mentions, I believe I understand a bit about the golf swing, and I've taken both a video review and an in-person lesson over the past season.  

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As many have already stated; there are indeed myriad ways to successfully deliver the club at impact. However, developing a swing plane that compliments your release, should in theory increase the length of the impact arc that you are able to keep the clubface square and stable. And square/stable will always be the foundation of consistency. Rev's Miller Barber example is poignant in that "getting away with" swing flaws is akin to living a life of crime. It is inevitable that those cutting corners will "get caught" and only the most gifted criminals can make a career of it.

 

 

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I just close my eyes and hope for the best 😋

 

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I just close my eyes and hope for the best 😋

 

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😂🤣

 

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I should add, I played with a gentleman a number of years ago that actually did that. He said his instructor had him visualize the shot so he didn't need to actually see it with his eyes open. He hit every fairway that round, so maybe he was onto something

 

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I should add, I played with a gentleman a number of years ago that actually did that. He said his instructor had him visualize the shot so he didn't need to actually see it with his eyes open. He hit every fairway that round, so maybe he was onto something

 

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wtbeep telling everyone greatest game you will ever hate lol

 

 

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Absolutely not. The ball only knows face angle and path angle at impact. Whatever it is you do before that moment of impact doesn't matter.

 

That doesn't mean that there isn't a potential cause and effect with certain motions or positions, but you could absolutely hit good golf shots doing any of the things that you've mentioned

I agree 100%

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

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