Cast vs Forged - the debate

[Stephen_Peszel]

I have a noted an "error" or "misconception" in some of these postings regarding Cast, Forged and Stainless steel.

All steel, whether it be stainless or not, is CAST first. Stainless is just an alloy containing certain metals that impart a corrosion resistant , not corrosion free, quality. "Stainless" will stain! "Corrosion resistant" will corrode. The conditions have to be right, or wrong.

Stainless does not mean forged.

Then it is pressed, rolled, beaten by a forging process.

Cast club heads are metal poured into a mould and then processed by heat treating, finishing etc etc, this is the easier manufacturing method.

Forged heads are cast metal that is then pressed etc to change the grain structure and make it harder and more durable.

The only way to tell if a head is cast or forged is to do a hardness test, even then there can be some quite hard cast alloys.

Or take a club head and break it, if the grain structure is "coarse" then it is cast, if the grain structure is "fine" it is forged.

The forging process refines the grain structure to remove slip planes.

I defy anybody to really tell the difference between the two. Finish will not tell you.

A cast head can be bead blasted to give it a hard surface finish, it can be heat treated to do the same, or chemically coated by various methods.

Cast heads are not as adjustable unless made "soft" (a relative term), forged hards can be but there is a limit depending on the "hardness" and alloy type.

A forged head can be inferior to a cast head, all depends on the alloy used.

Well, that should contribute to the debate, and I stand to be corrected. This was also posted elsewhere, apologies for duplication.

[Justin66]

I've said it before, but I'll say it again... the great majority of golfers can NOT tell the difference between stainless/carbon or forged/cast clubs. There's really not much difference. Most times, the softer carbon steel is given a hard chrome plating, nearly offestting the softness, anyway.

 

The only discernable difference is how it's designed. Most forged clubs are muscleback designs, with thin toplines and thin soles. Mis-hits will be much more noticable with forged blades because of the lack of forgiveness, but shots on the face center cannot be distinguished between the two. However, with the advent of CNC milling and improved forging techniques, it is possible to put an effective cavity into a forged head, allowing for more forgiveness.

 

I've never been a "my way or the highway" type of guy. People have reasons for liking what they like. But in no way is one "better" than the other. If that was the case, how come Ping has so many wins on Tour? Their lineup is 99% cast.

 

Just like a putter debate: there is no scientific proof that a Cameron is better than an old Ram Zebra... it's based on what a person is most comfortable with. And as we all know (or should know) an OEM's favorite word is "feel"... it can be marketed any way they choose. "Feel" can't be quantified, can't be given a scientific designation. It's the most misleading word in advertising... how do they know what feels best to me, or anyone else? Unless they have telepathy, it's impossible to know- but they sure try to make you think they know.

[Justin66]

I also forgot: if the forged clubs were so great, how come there's so little in the way of LH availability? If it were "better", that'd be discrimination.

[daves81]

That was a good post. Both of you guys make sense I always wondered what is the difference as far as feel is concerned. It seems better players play forged irons.I play stainless and I dont think I would notice a difference between the two. Dave

[Justin66]

That was a good post. Both of you guys make sense I always wondered what is the difference as far as feel is concerned. It seems better players play forged irons.I play stainless and I dont think I would notice a difference between the two. Dave

 

304 stainless is becoming the new "it" material. It's soft- just 5 points behind carbon steel on the Rockwell Hardness Scale- but without the threat of rust or easy bending from fat shots (or those that find a rock or tree root). A lot of putters are made with 303-304 stainless for that same reason. Theoretically, they aren't lying about carbon steel being softer, but they're all grouped closely together, it's hard for the average person to tell. From personal experience, I have a Callaway Forged+ 56* and a Nike SV Tour forged 52*.... My gamers are Acer XB's made of 431 stainless. I can't tell a difference.

 

It's the same with golf balls. Sound is the biggest determining factor for what people perceive as "soft". Some years ago, Ralph Maltby had Tour pros hit all types of balls that were whited-out. They could easily determine the softest ball. The second part of the test was hitting the same balls while wearing those noice-reducing headphones. No one could figure out which ball was the softest. Another personal experience: I like to chip/pitch balls in my backyard. I have a Titleist NXT (not the NXT Tour), a Bridgestone e5 and an refurbished Nike One (the original) that I dink around with. The NXT, even though it's the only one of the three with a Surlyn cover, sounds/feels the softest... even though that can't be possible, since the e5 and One both have urethane covers.