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Line Control vs. Speed Control

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Distance control is king but on either one a miss is still a miss. How do I put this next part, if it were me I'd be Leary about buying a putter that I'm having any issues with though unless I'm 100% positive that it's because of a flaw in my stroke that I can fix and not that the club and I don't match.

 

 

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Right Handed

4.5 handicap

Driver: Nike Vapor Flex with Mitsubishi Rayon Fubuki ZT60x5ct S-flex shaft and stock grip.

3-Metal: Nike VRS 15 degree with Mitsubishi Rayon tour issue Diamana S73x5ct X-flex shaft and GolfPride MCC midsize Black/White grip.

Irons: Ben Hogan PTx 22, 26, 30, 34, 38, 42, 46 degrees standard length and lie with KBS Tour-V stiff shafts and GolfPride MCC midsize Black/White grips.

Wedges: Ben Hogan TK15 54, 58 degrees with KBS Tour-V X-flex shafts and GolfPride MCC midsize Black/White grips.

Putter: Nike Method Converge B1|01 with Superstroke Flatso 2.0 grip.

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Actually, it was the rooster

Is a rooster not a chicken? I didn't distinguish between rooster or hen. I just said chicken, which covers both rooster and hen.

 

776.jpg

 

 

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In my ATumSBM.jpg Pisa riding on a hXf3ptG.jpg 3.5+
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I'd say you should test some lag putts too. From 10ft and out, the make percentage is going to be relatively low but you really need to be able to guarantee a two putt from distance. That'll take pressure off your iron/wedge game.

 

 

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+1

 

 

Tazz

 

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... I was talking with someone on the course today and he didn't understand my insistence on speed alone. He insisted speed was useless if you didn't have the line. So I thought perhaps I was not clear in my posts. Of course the line is equally important as distance. The two go hand in hand. What I am saying is once you get the line, your brain has it locked in and there is no need for further concentration on the line.

... So whatever your routine is for finding the line, you would still use it. For me, it is a zen like concentration allowing my brain to take in the terrain, the slope and the line. I do not consciously find a specific line but simply look back and forth when over my putt until, like a toaster timer, my brain has it and chimes for me start my stroke, concentrating only on the speed. I am paying zero attention to the line because I already have that information and it is unnecessary to actively think about it, again using the example of walking a rocky path where you see the rocks but look ahead and your brain tells your foot where to step. So yes, the line is very important but once you have it, let to go and concentrate on the speed. 

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Driver:   Cobra Speedzone Xtreme 9* ... Atmos TS Blue 6s
Fw wood: Cobra Speedzone 14.5* ... Atmos TS Blue 7s
Utility:   TaylorMade UDi 18*  ... HZRDUS Black 6.0 85 hy
Irons:    4-Gw Titleist T100-S ... Kuro Kage 105 Tini s-flex
              4-pw TaylorMade P760 ... Recoil Prototype 95 r-flex
Wedges:  SM6 52* F Grind /SM7D & SM8M 58* ... Recoil 110s
Putter:  Newport 2.5 at 33"
Ball:  TaylorMade TP5x

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In my opinion, speed control is #1 for making putts. I signed up for Decade golf a while ago and this video has stuck with me to this day. Link to Scott's video: 

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I got fit for an EV2 & it was about starting the ball on line. Loft was fit to be 0.5°. Really not a # I was expecting. Speed control can be dialed in. My Scotty's are in the garage ... all at 4° loft. So get fit ... you might be as surprised as I was.

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... I was talking with someone on the course today and he didn't understand my insistence on speed alone. He insisted speed was useless if you didn't have the line. So I thought perhaps I was not clear in my posts. Of course the line is equally important as distance. The two go hand in hand. What I am saying is once you get the line, your brain has it locked in and there is no need for further concentration on the line.

 

... So whatever your routine is for finding the line, you would still use it. For me, it is a zen like concentration allowing my brain to take in the terrain, the slope and the line. I do not consciously find a specific line but simply look back and forth when over my putt until, like a toaster timer, my brain has it and chimes for me start my stroke, concentrating only on the speed. I am paying zero attention to the line because I already have that information and it is unnecessary to actively think about it, again using the example of walking a rocky path where you see the rocks but look ahead and your brain tells your foot where to step. So yes, the line is very important but once you have it, let to go and concentrate on the speed. 

I haven't weighed in on this thread yet mostly because I have posted on my putting technique many times over during the past few years.  If I had to pick one over the other, of course I would and have picked speed.  However, @chisag nailed the best answer I've read, and it absolutely describes how I putt.  

 

Once I figure out my line, line up my ball to that line, and line up my putter to the line on my ball, I don't look at the ball when I putt.  I have gauged the speed I want for the line I want and I am looking at the hole when I make my stroke.  I trust the line that I read, and I have confidence that my stroke will put the ball on that line.  All I am thinking about when I make the stroke is what the correct speed feels like, and of course that varies with the green conditions.  I realized a few years ago that I was not capable of focusing on both line and speed when stroking the ball.  I would always get one wrong.  Trust the read and focus on the speed.

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We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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... I was talking with someone on the course today and he didn't understand my insistence on speed alone. He insisted speed was useless if you didn't have the line. So I thought perhaps I was not clear in my posts. Of course the line is equally important as distance. The two go hand in hand. What I am saying is once you get the line, your brain has it locked in and there is no need for further concentration on the line.

 

... So whatever your routine is for finding the line, you would still use it. For me, it is a zen like concentration allowing my brain to take in the terrain, the slope and the line. I do not consciously find a specific line but simply look back and forth when over my putt until, like a toaster timer, my brain has it and chimes for me start my stroke, concentrating only on the speed. I am paying zero attention to the line because I already have that information and it is unnecessary to actively think about it, again using the example of walking a rocky path where you see the rocks but look ahead and your brain tells your foot where to step. So yes, the line is very important but once you have it, let to go and concentrate on the speed. 

 

 

I haven't weighed in on this thread yet mostly because I have posted on my putting technique many times over during the past few years.  If I had to pick one over the other, of course I would and have picked speed.  However, @chisag nailed the best answer I've read, and it absolutely describes how I putt.  

 

Once I figure out my line, line up my ball to that line, and line up my putter to the line on my ball, I don't look at the ball when I putt.  I have gauged the speed I want for the line I want and I am looking at the hole when I make my stroke.  I trust the line that I read, and I have confidence that my stroke will put the ball on that line.  All I am thinking about when I make the stroke is what the correct speed feels like, and of course that varies with the green conditions.  I realized a few years ago that I was not capable of focusing on both line and speed when stroking the ball.  I would always get one wrong.  Trust the read and focus on the speed.

 

I really do understand what you guys are saying.  I putt the same way.  You don't need to agonize over the line for 15 minutes while reading a putt.  Just look at it, trust your instinct and focus on the speed.

 

HOWEVER, once you've done all that if you line up and can't hit the line you just picked out it really doesn't matter what speed you hit the putt.  If you didn't hit the line it's not going in.  Sure you may have a gimmee for the next one, but you still didn't make the first one.

 

On a 10' putt if you are 1 degree off on your line you missed it.  Doesn't matter if it stopped right next to the hole or 5' by, you still 2 putted.  

 

We aren't talking about your ability to read greens or pick a line.  We are talking about the ability to start the ball on the line you intended vs the ability to hit the ball a certain distance.  Given the choice I will choose having a putter that goes where I thought it was going to go and I will work on distance control.

 

But again, why does it have to be one or the other?  Find a putter that you can control distance with and also goes where you thought it was going to go.  Problem solved.

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Driver: :callaway-logo-1: Epic SZ w/ VA Composites Raijin 65 04

3w: :taylormade-small:'16 M2 hl w/ Diamana D+ 82

5w: :cleveland-small: Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Yellow

Hybrid: :cleveland-small: 22 deg. Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Black

Irons: :ping-small: 5i-UW G700 w/ X100 soft stepped once

Wedges: :cleveland-small: 54 & 58 CBX w/ Nippon Modus 3 125

Putter: :odyssey-small: Red 7s

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On a 10' putt if you are 1 degree off on your line you missed it.  Doesn't matter if it stopped right next to the hole or 5' by, you still 2 putted.  

 

We aren't talking about your ability to read greens or pick a line.  We are talking about the ability to start the ball on the line you intended vs the ability to hit the ball a certain distance.  Given the choice I will choose having a putter that goes where I thought it was going to go and I will work on distance control.

 

 

...Changing your wording:

 

On a 10' putt if your speed is too fast or too slow you missed it.  Doesn't matter if it stopped well short of the hole or rolled well past the hole, you still 2 putted.  

 

We aren't talking about your ability to read greens or pick a line.  We are talking about the ability to hit the ball with the correct speed vs the ability to hit the ball on a certain line.

 

... I think we are talking about two different things. You are talking about the ability to hit your ball on the line you have already chosen. That sounds like a stroke problem, not a line or speed problem. As most know, the brain cannot concentrate on two things at the same time. It can go back and forth between two thoughts rapidly but the thoughts are split and you are not giving full concentration to either thought. So I agree with you, the correct line and hitting the putt on that line are crucial but every stroke is a straight putt and once you have picked your line, there is no need to further concentrate on it. 

 

... If you have a 4 foot downhill putt that is going to break 1-3" you line up your putt just outside the edge of the hole and if you have picked the correct line and stroke the putt straight, like every other putt, all you need to think about is the speed. Since it is downhill you don't want to be thinking of the line and hit it too hard rolling a miss an equal distance past the hole OR stroke it too softly causing it to break more than the 1-3" short of the hole. I hear this too often "Arghhh I hit it too soft/hard but I had the perfect line" and much more than I hear "I had the perfect speed I just missed my line". 

 

"Given the choice I will choose having a putter that goes where I thought it was going to go and I will work on distance control." I think I would have to agree with you. As a full arc putter, attempting to putt without toe hang would cause my line control to be inconsistent as the putter head tends to wander on the back stroke. IF I had to choose between the two, I would choose the putter that goes where I aim it and learn speed control, but agree you should be able to find a putter out there that enables you to do both. 

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Driver:   Cobra Speedzone Xtreme 9* ... Atmos TS Blue 6s
Fw wood: Cobra Speedzone 14.5* ... Atmos TS Blue 7s
Utility:   TaylorMade UDi 18*  ... HZRDUS Black 6.0 85 hy
Irons:    4-Gw Titleist T100-S ... Kuro Kage 105 Tini s-flex
              4-pw TaylorMade P760 ... Recoil Prototype 95 r-flex
Wedges:  SM6 52* F Grind /SM7D & SM8M 58* ... Recoil 110s
Putter:  Newport 2.5 at 33"
Ball:  TaylorMade TP5x

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In my opinion, speed control is #1 for making putts. I signed up for Decade golf a while ago and this video has stuck with me to this day. Link to Scott's video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_V9iQY0ZwCc

Awesome!

Thx for sharing that!


WITB of an "aspiring"  😉 play-ah ...
..Tour Edge Exotics EXS 3W/HL (17*) and EXS 7W (Tensei CK Blue)
..Callaway Big Bertha 4H (Recoil ZTR) and/or Callaway XR 4H (Project X SD)
..PXG 0211 6i-GW (Mitsubishi MMT) 
..Cleveland CBX2 54 (Rotex graphite) and Callaway X-Jaws 60 (TT-DG S300)
..Evnroll ER5 (33", 385g)
..all in a Datrek Hybrid bag on a Bag Boy Quad XL push cart.

Forum Member tester for the ExPutt Putting Simulator

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... I was talking with someone on the course today and he didn't understand my insistence on speed alone. He insisted speed was useless if you didn't have the line. So I thought perhaps I was not clear in my posts. Of course the line is equally important as distance. The two go hand in hand. What I am saying is once you get the line, your brain has it locked in and there is no need for further concentration on the line.

 

... So whatever your routine is for finding the line, you would still use it. For me, it is a zen like concentration allowing my brain to take in the terrain, the slope and the line. I do not consciously find a specific line but simply look back and forth when over my putt until, like a toaster timer, my brain has it and chimes for me start my stroke, concentrating only on the speed. I am paying zero attention to the line because I already have that information and it is unnecessary to actively think about it, again using the example of walking a rocky path where you see the rocks but look ahead and your brain tells your foot where to step. So yes, the line is very important but once you have it, let to go and concentrate on the speed.

^^^ yes! ^^^

Thank you!


WITB of an "aspiring"  😉 play-ah ...
..Tour Edge Exotics EXS 3W/HL (17*) and EXS 7W (Tensei CK Blue)
..Callaway Big Bertha 4H (Recoil ZTR) and/or Callaway XR 4H (Project X SD)
..PXG 0211 6i-GW (Mitsubishi MMT) 
..Cleveland CBX2 54 (Rotex graphite) and Callaway X-Jaws 60 (TT-DG S300)
..Evnroll ER5 (33", 385g)
..all in a Datrek Hybrid bag on a Bag Boy Quad XL push cart.

Forum Member tester for the ExPutt Putting Simulator

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I haven't weighed in on this thread yet mostly because I have posted on my putting technique many times over during the past few years. If I had to pick one over the other, of course I would and have picked speed. However, @chisag nailed the best answer I've read, and it absolutely describes how I putt.

 

Once I figure out my line, line up my ball to that line, and line up my putter to the line on my ball, I don't look at the ball when I putt. I have gauged the speed I want for the line I want and I am looking at the hole when I make my stroke. I trust the line that I read, and I have confidence that my stroke will put the ball on that line. All I am thinking about when I make the stroke is what the correct speed feels like, and of course that varies with the green conditions. I realized a few years ago that I was not capable of focusing on both line and speed when stroking the ball. I would always get one wrong. Trust the read and focus on the speed.

^^^ yes! ^^^

Thank you!


WITB of an "aspiring"  😉 play-ah ...
..Tour Edge Exotics EXS 3W/HL (17*) and EXS 7W (Tensei CK Blue)
..Callaway Big Bertha 4H (Recoil ZTR) and/or Callaway XR 4H (Project X SD)
..PXG 0211 6i-GW (Mitsubishi MMT) 
..Cleveland CBX2 54 (Rotex graphite) and Callaway X-Jaws 60 (TT-DG S300)
..Evnroll ER5 (33", 385g)
..all in a Datrek Hybrid bag on a Bag Boy Quad XL push cart.

Forum Member tester for the ExPutt Putting Simulator

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OK... I'm going to postulate that....

 

If we were able to construct and execute fairly a statistically valid experiment to test which "focus" - Line vs Speed - ultimately performs better .. then I would bet on Speed.

 

Let's say we were able to, similar to the methodology of the MGS putting tests....

 

* Take 10 golfers within the same handicap range .. let's say "average" golfers in the mid-teens, maybe 14-18

 

* Split them into two groups based on "Line" preferred vs "Speed" preferred - AND be able to control/verify that variable

 

* Have each golfer in each group, using their own preferred putter, hit enough putts at each of a few different ranges plus negotiating a few different types of breaks (ie. not all flat and straight) .. so that each golfer hits at least, say, 100+ putts

 

... Then my theory is that the "Speed" group overall would have better stats (eg. Strokes Gained, Best Misses/Proximity to the hole, 3-Putt Avoidance, etc.)

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WITB of an "aspiring"  😉 play-ah ...
..Tour Edge Exotics EXS 3W/HL (17*) and EXS 7W (Tensei CK Blue)
..Callaway Big Bertha 4H (Recoil ZTR) and/or Callaway XR 4H (Project X SD)
..PXG 0211 6i-GW (Mitsubishi MMT) 
..Cleveland CBX2 54 (Rotex graphite) and Callaway X-Jaws 60 (TT-DG S300)
..Evnroll ER5 (33", 385g)
..all in a Datrek Hybrid bag on a Bag Boy Quad XL push cart.

Forum Member tester for the ExPutt Putting Simulator

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I wanted to like the ER2 when I first tried it admittedly due to the hype and reviews. The shape just checks all the boxes for my game: easy for my eye to line up, and the weighting gives me a very stable feeling. The problem at the time though? Same as OP, distance control. The problem for me was that the stock weight on the head just felt too heavy and I struggled to weight my putts. The solution for me was to reach out to Justin at Evnroll and he helped me build my gamer. Get a swing weight for a putter you don't struggle with distance, and have them build you one to match

 

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Driver: :taylormade-small: SIM Max 10.5 Fujikura Ventus Blue 6S

3w/5w: :callaway-small: XR16 Fujikura Speeder Evo 565 S

4h: :mizuno-small: CLK 22* Hybrid Tensei CK Pro Blue 80HY S

Irons 5-PW: :mizuno-small: JPX 919 Forged Nippon Modus 3 Tour 105 S

Wedges: :cleveland-small: RTX 4 50.10 | 54.10 | 60.09 Nippon Modus 115 Wedge

Putter: :EVNROLL: ER5 BGT Stability Tour

Ball: :bridgestone-small: Tour B XS

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I think we are getting away from the original question of which putter should you choose.  A putter that gives you good speed control or a putter that you can aim correctly.

 

I still favor the putter that goes where I was trying to line up.  You can practice to gain distance control.  It's hard to practice aim if the ball isn't going where you wanted it to.

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Driver: :callaway-logo-1: Epic SZ w/ VA Composites Raijin 65 04

3w: :taylormade-small:'16 M2 hl w/ Diamana D+ 82

5w: :cleveland-small: Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Yellow

Hybrid: :cleveland-small: 22 deg. Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Black

Irons: :ping-small: 5i-UW G700 w/ X100 soft stepped once

Wedges: :cleveland-small: 54 & 58 CBX w/ Nippon Modus 3 125

Putter: :odyssey-small: Red 7s

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This is really a interesting read, speed or line. Both are needed in order to make a putt. I would go with the one where the line is correct. The speed of the greens change from day to day, but being confident that you have started the ball on the correct or intended line, you can learn the speed of the greens.

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Lefties are always in their Right Mind

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