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Two lessons... With two coaches... Two opposite opinions... What to do now?


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So, it may be a little rant-like but I want to improve as quickly as possible without going in circles so I thought I'll ask for an opinion here.

 

Went for my first lesson - as I've started struggling with 2-5 irons for some reason, so instead of the usual 2h spent on pitching and chipping - we spent some time on going back to basics with the swing.

 

My impact position was still pretty solid, the body works 'okish' but i wasnt happy with the contact on shots.

wRyUdUM.jpg

 

So after a few shots the diagnosis was - I'm laying off the shaft too much.

 

I am consciously doing it, as I've got a fade and want to avoid having a slice.

 

ixcczyO.jpg

 

So I've been told that the hands want to go where the grip is pointing. Which most of the time I'd agree with but I like to have a certain 'feel' that helps me with timing a lot and not coming into the ball steep like hell.

 

We worked for a while on it, to set the club shaft basically parallel to the target line.

 

The contact is a bit better, but im back to hitting slices.

 

3Ibsk0o.jpg

 

Anyway, took it to the course, it wasnt the worst or best. I played fairly ok. And then went for a lesson just out of curiosity with a different guy at a different place as with my current one - seems my long game has stopped progressing/been stagnant for a while.

 

And he basically turned 180 degrees, said my shaft is too steep, that it should be pointing at about 2o'clock at the top of the swing etc...

Literally the exact opposite of what I was working on. Also - after that lesson I went to the range, and could not hit the ball for about 40-45 minutes. I felt like I've wasted £70.

 

But then 2 opposite opinions... Which one is right? How the hell am I supposed to find a coach to trust?

I have the aspiration to get to scratch within a short period of time.

 

So yeah... Kind of bummed.

 

Wood swing: https://www.instagram.com/p/BdNzMkphWAd

 

Advice?

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Did you approach the 2nd teacher with the same issue?

Not sure the shaft to point to 2 o'clock is good. That seems a bit much unless it's a wood or driver.

I'd lean towards the 1st guy and stick with him.

Also, golf isn't a sprint. It's a stroll.

Enjoy the journey cause not everyone gets to scratch.

Good luck and have fun.

 

 

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Did you approach the 2nd teacher with the same issue?

Not sure the shaft to point to 2 o'clock is good. That seems a bit much unless it's a wood or driver.

I'd lean towards the 1st guy and stick with him.

Also, golf isn't a sprint. It's a stroll.

Enjoy the journey cause not everyone gets to scratch.

Good luck and have fun.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

 

150+ rounds a year and 2-4h of coaching a week should let me pick up the pace of the stroll to at least a 6h marathon speed :) 

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Neither of them gave you a correct diagnosis or remedy. In the first pic you aren't laid off. Laid off doesn't have to do with where the shaft merely points at the end of the backswing but only where the shaft points IF the backswing reaches parallel to the ground. In the first pic you have an incomplete backswing caused by stiff arms and stiff wrists. Relax a bit and it would be better.

 

In the second pic you've gotten to parallel but done so by overswinging. It looks like your chest is starting to point up to the sky just a tad, meaning you've gone into reverse c and missed the reverse k position. Hello slice!

 

Go back to the first swing, stop the backswing at reverse k (chest tilted slightly down to the right side) and don't over rotate the back into reverse c. Relax your arms and wrists (don't stiffen or try to straighten the left arm, just relax) and you'll have a more complete backswing and should produce more speed with more ease and fluidity.

 

Hope that helps!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Driver: TM M1 9.5*

4W: Wishon bent FLAT

Irons: Mizuno MP20MB

Wedges: 50/55/60 Mizuno

Putter: Evnroll ER2

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Neither of them gave you a correct diagnosis or remedy. In the first pic you aren't laid off. Laid off doesn't have to do with where the shaft merely points at the end of the backswing but only where the shaft points IF the backswing reaches parallel to the ground. In the first pic you have an incomplete backswing caused by stiff arms and stiff wrists. Relax a bit and it would be better.

 

In the second pic you've gotten to parallel but done so by overswinging. It looks like your chest is starting to point up to the sky just a tad, meaning you've gone into reverse c and missed the reverse k position. Hello slice!

 

Go back to the first swing, stop the backswing at reverse k (chest tilted slightly down to the right side) and don't over rotate the back into reverse c. Relax your arms and wrists (don't stiffen or try to straighten the left arm, just relax) and you'll have a more complete backswing and should produce more speed with more ease and fluidity.

 

Hope that helps!

 

 

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Actually helped me

 

 

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Rick

 

 

Left Hand, 

Driver; PXG 0311XF Cypher 50 gr Senior  
5 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr       
7 wood; Ping 425, Senior Shaft 55 gr      
5 hybrid; Cally Steelhead, Hazardous R2     
Irons; Mizuno JPX 923HM 7-GW Recoil 460 F2
Wedges; Titleist S9 54*, Mizuno SW 56*

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Is your right heel off the mat at the top in both pics???

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX

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The issue in your first pic is not being laid-off... One's hands go where they're being FORCED to go, or where gravity/kinetic energy takes them. My guess, based on photo one, is that your hands and club are working out much more than just dropping down. In the video, at parallel on the way down, the head of your club is out in front of the shaft. That means your hands are inside the head and the head has no way to get back inside. You're the opposite of me in that you could really use some drills to get your club more inside, hitting the inside 1/4 of the ball, and the path needs to go to “right field”.

If your right heel is off the mat, your weight is way too far forward. I would stick with guy number one, if you have to pick one of the two.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX

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Overall your swing looks pretty solid. Actually a nice looking swing I think. Since I'm not an instructor I can't critique your swing or offer swing advice. I would like to suggest however that you perhaps work with the guy you like the best. Than... you need to tell him specifically what you want to accomplish or need fixed. You certainly don't need a rebuilt swing that's for sure. Just some tweaks. And minor ones at that. Don't let the instructor control the instruction. Certainly not at your level of play and experience.

My Sun Mountain bag currently includes:   TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 771CSI 5i - PW and TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png PFC Micro Tour-c 52°, 56°, 60 wedges

                                                                               :755178188_TourEdge: EXS 10.5*, TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 929-HS FW4 16.5* 

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The heel looks like it's off the mat, it's not its just the shoes that look that way. The first guy would like my club in the first pic to point towards the ground at that moment in the swing btw.

So, at the top, he wants the butt of the club to point at the ground??? Or head of the club???

 

I change my mind on this Information alone... I would find someone else!!!!

 

If the butt of the club were to point down at the ground when you're at the top, your wrists would have zero hinge, and in-fact, be pre-released... If he says the head of the club should be down pointing to the ground, he's asking you to over-rotate, and do something that only long-drive guys could do.

Yeah. I would NOT go back to him. Doesn't know what “laid off” is and now this?! No way.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX

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So, at the top, he wants the butt of the club to point at the ground??? Or head of the club???

 

I change my mind on this Information alone... I would find someone else!!!!

 

If the butt of the club were to point down at the ground when you're at the top, your wrists would have zero hinge, and in-fact, be pre-released... If he says the head of the club should be down pointing to the ground, he's asking you to over-rotate, and do something that only long-drive guys could do.

Yeah. I would NOT go back to him. Doesn't know what “laid off” is and now this?! No way.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

I mean the path of hands should be with the butt pointing at the target line all the time basically.

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I mean the path of hands should be with the butt pointing at the target line all the time basically.

To be truly “on plane” the butt of the club actually points out further than the target line.... Anyway. I say scrap both. Go to the TOP rated guy in your State. I drive 4 1/2 hours to see my guy once a quarter and we do video and calls in-between. But, that's me.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX

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To be truly “on plane” the butt of the club actually points out further than the target line.... Anyway. I say scrap both. Go to the TOP rated guy in your State. I drive 4 1/2 hours to see my guy once a quarter and we do video and calls in-between. But, that's me.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

 

Yeah I have considered that... There is Pete Cowen - coach to Stenson which is available and surprisingly not expensive... 

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Yeah I have considered that... There is Pete Cowen - coach to Stenson which is available and surprisingly not expensive...

Ding-ding-ding! We have a winner!

 

I'd be on that yesterday! Be like Nike and JUST DO IT!!!!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX

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Ah damn, he stopped doing lessons now and only you can get it from the guys at his academy :-/

I'd STILL go there. Learned from a legend!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX

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So, it may be a little rant-like but I want to improve as quickly as possible without going in circles so I thought I'll ask for an opinion here.

 

Went for my first lesson - as I've started struggling with 2-5 irons for some reason, so instead of the usual 2h spent on pitching and chipping - we spent some time on going back to basics with the swing.

 

My impact position was still pretty solid, the body works 'okish' but i wasnt happy with the contact on shots.

wRyUdUM.jpg

 

So after a few shots the diagnosis was - I'm laying off the shaft too much.

 

I am consciously doing it, as I've got a fade and want to avoid having a slice.

 

ixcczyO.jpg

 

So I've been told that the hands want to go where the grip is pointing. Which most of the time I'd agree with but I like to have a certain 'feel' that helps me with timing a lot and not coming into the ball steep like hell.

 

We worked for a while on it, to set the club shaft basically parallel to the target line.

 

The contact is a bit better, but im back to hitting slices.

 

3Ibsk0o.jpg

 

Anyway, took it to the course, it wasnt the worst or best. I played fairly ok. And then went for a lesson just out of curiosity with a different guy at a different place as with my current one - seems my long game has stopped progressing/been stagnant for a while.

 

And he basically turned 180 degrees, said my shaft is too steep, that it should be pointing at about 2o'clock at the top of the swing etc...

Literally the exact opposite of what I was working on. Also - after that lesson I went to the range, and could not hit the ball for about 40-45 minutes. I felt like I've wasted £70.

 

But then 2 opposite opinions... Which one is right? How the hell am I supposed to find a coach to trust?

I have the aspiration to get to scratch within a short period of time.

 

So yeah... Kind of bummed.

 

Wood swing: https://www.instagram.com/p/BdNzMkphWAd

 

Advice?

long winded answer - I will try to be short. Saw your swing vid your positions look good but would you rather have a technically "pretty" swing and a so so game or have a good swing and a scratch game? Im guessing the later soooo - after all the technical lessons drills position etc at the end of the day to play great golf need a certain "feel".

 

Meaning a feel that works for you a feel you can trust a feel when your in a money match you know will work.

 

17 yrs ago I wanted to be scratch was as low as 7 legit but thats it - started playing at 30 no lessons so good habits and bad habit hang around because bad habits feel comfortable. My advise to any person starting to play find a good coach and learn all techniques early.

 

So back to what to do? Not sure where your starting from - meaning how long playing? did you have lessons when you started? whats your current handicap? like my uncle said years ago shots come off easy until your a 10 cap then it gets harder.

 

Good luck

 

 

Bags

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long winded answer - I will try to be short. Saw your swing vid your positions look good but would you rather have a technically "pretty" swing and a so so game or have a good swing and a scratch game? Im guessing the later soooo - after all the technical lessons drills position etc at the end of the day to play great golf need a certain "feel".

 

Meaning a feel that works for you a feel you can trust a feel when your in a money match you know will work.

 

17 yrs ago I wanted to be scratch was as low as 7 legit but thats it - started playing at 30 no lessons so good habits and bad habit hang around because bad habits feel comfortable. My advise to any person starting to play find a good coach and learn all techniques early.

 

So back to what to do? Not sure where your starting from - meaning how long playing? did you have lessons when you started? whats your current handicap? like my uncle said years ago shots come off easy until your a 10 cap then it gets harder.

 

Good luck

 

 

Bags

 

Hey Bags, thanks! Appreciated.

 

I've been golfing only for 2 years, and yes, I've spent probably good 120hours in those 2 years at lessons. First swing coach, then short game, now looking at more of guidance/coaching rather than 'lessons'. I can comfortably get around a new course around 15 shots over, with my best rounds last year being in the 70s. It's the consistency I lack (had a tournament in which I scored 78 on day 1 and 111 on day 2) and im worried I may have hit a wall with my current coach, hence i was looking elsewhere.

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Ha! I actually got pretty damn good advice on Reddit (same discussion) - check which pro at my club has the best team / team that wins the most scratch stuff and go to him. Should be an idea.

like the old story of the town with only two barbers. The first -well his hair is a mess and the shop not much better. The second barber looks like he could be a model...hair perfect, shop pristine... So who do you choose as your barber?

 

 

Clearly the first. Unkempt shop indicates he is busier than the second, and each cuts the other's hair.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

What's in the bag?
 
Driver :callaway-small: Callaway Mavrik 105 set to 9.5, square, Aldila Rogue White 130 MSI 60G Stiff shaft
#3 Wood  :callaway-small: Callaway FT Tour 13 degree neutral setup, Fuijkara 370 Stiff Shaft
Hybrid  :cobra-small:  18 Degree King Cobra Baffler pro, Baffler Stiff shaft
4-PW :titelist-small: Titlest 714 AP2, Standard loft and lie, MGS S Shafts
:benhogan-small: 53, 57 degree loft Hogan Equalizer wedges
1962  :wilson_staff_small: Wilson "Sandy Andy" sand wedge with HUGE bounce!
Putter MLA Pro Classic
:titelist-small: Titlist ProV 1, ProV 1x

Currently Gaming "Costco Kirkland Signature Tour Performance" balls

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I never realized that we had so many teaching pros on this site. I'm blown away by it actually.

 

I agree with the one who admits he's not a pro - Plaid - you determine what you want to do to tweak and refine an already good swing and recognize that it takes time even with the amount that you play.

 

It generally takes touring pros a year to implement changes and they have all the time in the world to devote to it.

 

Good luck!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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So, it may be a little rant-like but I want to improve as quickly as possible without going in circles so I thought I'll ask for an opinion here.

 

Went for my first lesson - as I've started struggling with 2-5 irons for some reason, so instead of the usual 2h spent on pitching and chipping - we spent some time on going back to basics with the swing.

 

My impact position was still pretty solid, the body works 'okish' but i wasnt happy with the contact on shots.

wRyUdUM.jpg

 

So after a few shots the diagnosis was - I'm laying off the shaft too much.

 

I am consciously doing it, as I've got a fade and want to avoid having a slice.

 

ixcczyO.jpg

 

So I've been told that the hands want to go where the grip is pointing. Which most of the time I'd agree with but I like to have a certain 'feel' that helps me with timing a lot and not coming into the ball steep like hell.

 

We worked for a while on it, to set the club shaft basically parallel to the target line.

 

The contact is a bit better, but im back to hitting slices.

 

3Ibsk0o.jpg

 

Anyway, took it to the course, it wasnt the worst or best. I played fairly ok. And then went for a lesson just out of curiosity with a different guy at a different place as with my current one - seems my long game has stopped progressing/been stagnant for a while.

 

And he basically turned 180 degrees, said my shaft is too steep, that it should be pointing at about 2o'clock at the top of the swing etc...

Literally the exact opposite of what I was working on. Also - after that lesson I went to the range, and could not hit the ball for about 40-45 minutes. I felt like I've wasted £70.

 

But then 2 opposite opinions... Which one is right? How the hell am I supposed to find a coach to trust?

I have the aspiration to get to scratch within a short period of time.

 

So yeah... Kind of bummed.

 

Wood swing: https://www.instagram.com/p/BdNzMkphWAd

 

Advice?

I'm NOT a teaching pro so PROCEED WITH CAUTION!

Your backswing looks fine. You can play from either one of those positions. Looking at your IG vid what I see is what most players struggle with, particularly those of us above a certain age- your lower body is not initiating the downswing so you get a bit over the top and steep. Your hips and upper body are basically facing the ball at impact, and we want the hips looking at the target. If you can master the transition from the ground up you'll improve your ball striking. Shift to the left, turn to the target. Backswing work is not going to be your key to improvement here. Lower body first from the top is your pathway.

Again- Not a pro.

 

Sent from my Pixel XL using MyGolfSpy mobile app

:callaway-small: Rogue SZ 10.5 *NEW* Fujikura Pro Green 65 X

:callaway-small: Rogue 15 degree Evnflow Blue 6.5

Back in the Bag :srixon-small: Z765 4-G Nippon Modus 120 Stiff

:vokey-small: 54 and 60

 

:bobby-grace-1: Amazing Grace Ass Kicker

 

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I never realized that we had so many teaching pros on this site. I'm blown away by it actually.

 

I agree with the one who admits he's not a pro - Plaid - you determine what you want to do to tweak and refine an already good swing and recognize that it takes time even with the amount that you play.

 

It generally takes touring pros a year to implement changes and they have all the time in the world to devote to it.

 

Good luck!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

 

And as you see, Rev,  I didn't offer instruction, only a parable - perhaps you can relate!  Leave it to the individual to choose!

 

What's in the bag?
 
Driver :callaway-small: Callaway Mavrik 105 set to 9.5, square, Aldila Rogue White 130 MSI 60G Stiff shaft
#3 Wood  :callaway-small: Callaway FT Tour 13 degree neutral setup, Fuijkara 370 Stiff Shaft
Hybrid  :cobra-small:  18 Degree King Cobra Baffler pro, Baffler Stiff shaft
4-PW :titelist-small: Titlest 714 AP2, Standard loft and lie, MGS S Shafts
:benhogan-small: 53, 57 degree loft Hogan Equalizer wedges
1962  :wilson_staff_small: Wilson "Sandy Andy" sand wedge with HUGE bounce!
Putter MLA Pro Classic
:titelist-small: Titlist ProV 1, ProV 1x

Currently Gaming "Costco Kirkland Signature Tour Performance" balls

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I'm not a tour pro either.But after watching your instagram video you have many swing issues besides your backswing.In the dtl i see some head tilting - bad setup- and possibly goofy grip plus being completely out of sync.And it all leads to a super bad fault that all of us have.At the bottom hip high you can easily see the massive cast you have at the bottom.Sure it lines up in the face on.But you get there by throwing it all away super early.With a massive flip once ball is leaving.Dont fret, we all have that to some extent as amateurs.Just be prepared for some massive work to fix that.Many just accept it and go on and enjoy the game as we can.Or the faster route would be to get a custom fitting.You can a set that is built around your swing faults.It won't get you to scratch.But I think you can buy a decent game.Ive witnessed some goofy swings that with a proper fit produce some astounding results ball flight wise vs look

 

It's not about the cost to fix it.Its the time factor that most of us can't invest.Good luck, and just passing on same issues I see that my pro also spotted in my own motion

Keep it in the short stuff

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I'm NOT a teaching pro so PROCEED WITH CAUTION!

Your backswing looks fine. You can play from either one of those positions. Looking at your IG vid what I see is what most players struggle with, particularly those of us above a certain age- your lower body is not initiating the downswing so you get a bit over the top and steep. Your hips and upper body are basically facing the ball at impact, and we want the hips looking at the target. If you can master the transition from the ground up you'll improve your ball striking. Shift to the left, turn to the target. Backswing work is not going to be your key to improvement here. Lower body first from the top is your pathway.

Again- Not a pro.

 

Sent from my Pixel XL using MyGolfSpy mobile app

Yeah I find that in the cold I find it so much more difficult to turn it's insane. I've played today 2 rounds and was 4 and 5 over consecutively. Maybe I'll just wait for the summer...

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Yeah I find that in the cold I find it so much more difficult to turn it's insane. I've played today 2 rounds and was 4 and 5 over consecutively. Maybe I'll just wait for the summer...

That's good golf, particularly given the time of year.

:callaway-small: Rogue SZ 10.5 *NEW* Fujikura Pro Green 65 X

:callaway-small: Rogue 15 degree Evnflow Blue 6.5

Back in the Bag :srixon-small: Z765 4-G Nippon Modus 120 Stiff

:vokey-small: 54 and 60

 

:bobby-grace-1: Amazing Grace Ass Kicker

 

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