The Rhein Gibson headcover incident

[GolfSpy MPR]

Have you guys seen this?

 

http://golfweek.com/2018/01/24/web-com-tour-player-throws-headcover-at-caddie-over-costly-and-mysterious-penalty/

 

Quick summary:

• Web.com player in the hunt for a tournament win, hooks ball into hazard on the last hole.
• Caddie picks up ball. Rules official assesses a stroke penalty because the caddie got the ball without explicit authorization from the player.
• Gibson drops and hits, nearly holes out. Grabs putter out of the bag, pulls headcover, and flings the headcover at the caddie. Apparently at the same time, fires the caddie.
• Gibson finishes 3rd instead of T-2, costing him about $12,000.
• Caddie posts summary of the event on YouTube, including his argument that the penalty stroke should not have been assessed.

My thoughts: first, events like this are always interesting to learn more obscure rules. It looks like the caddie is correct: there should not have been a penalty here. Provision is made in the decisions of golf for circumstances in which a drop is obvious that a caddie can pick the ball up without penalty.

 

Second, Gibson comes out looking really bad. His anger is understandable, but any circumstance in which a person treats a subordinate (caddie, waitstaff, etc.) in a demeaning manner is a telling revelation of that person's character. Fire the guy: fine, that makes sense. But throwing things at him on the course? Childish and way over the line.

[cnosil]

Read about this earlier. Another case where the player didn't know the rules and know to challenge the penalty assessment.

 

I guess there are a couple of ways to look at this

 

Players fault for not knowing the rules

Caddie found the decision later in an effort to clear his name.

Rules officials fault for not knowing the rules and incorrectly assessing a penalty.

[sixcat]

I completely agree about Gibson's poor behavior.  Some guys would have knocked Gibson's block off!  I'm not so certain at least some fault doesn't lie with Davis though.  The rule clearly states, "any doubt should be resolved against the player".

 

About a dozen years ago, I caddied for a junior from my home club in a fairly well known junior event.  I had caddied for him and others lots of times in the past and have since.  Given the layout of the course, he took a driver and 3 iron to the tee of a par 5 while I went toward the landing area through the pine forest down the right side of the fairway.  Which happened to be OB for no reason other than the property didn't belong to the club even though they appeared to use it much more than the property owners.  Anyway, my player decided to hit driver over the corner of the pine forest, cutting the corner, in an attempt to reach in two.  A line off the tee that is almost entirely over OB until it reaches the intended landing area.  The ball clipped the tip-top of a pine tree and landed no more than 3 feet OB.  

 

I instinctively picked the ball up and began walking back toward my player knowing, he would need to re-tee.  I can vividly remember going down to pick up the ball thinking "what the hell are you doing".  I immediately realized I had screwed up but it was too late. 

 

The moral of the story is, never touch another players ball without express consent from said player!

[Shankster]

That dude is lucky I wasn't his caddy. That entire bag would have been in the water.

[JTexGolfer]

Bad form by the player. Being angry is understandable but throwing things? Very childish IMO.

[Canucklehead]

That dude is lucky I wasn't his caddy. That entire bag would have been in the water.

I would've done the same thing. You wanna fire me with golf still to be played? Carry your own bag then. Walk off the course right there.

 

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[cnosil]

The point of contention is decision 26.1/9.

 

 

Per the caddie: Ball was dead underneath two rocks and I told you about it and you said "f**k" and turned around stopped looking and walked back to the bag. The tour official actually found the unhittable ball. I then went over and quickly retrieved it.

 

Decision 26.1/9 states that if it's assumed it won't be played a caddy can pick it up without the players' permission without penalty. We'd already picked our drop spot, we weren't playing it!

[sixcat]

Read about this earlier. Another case where the player didn't know the rules and know to challenge the penalty assessment.

 

I guess there are a couple of ways to look at this

 

Players fault for not knowing the rules

Caddie found the decision later in an effort to clear his name.

Rules officials fault for not knowing the rules and incorrectly assessing a penalty.

 

Jim Duncan was the rules official who assessed the penalty.  He is the head rules official for the Web.com Tour and is extremely knowledgeable and experienced.  He stood by his ruling on Morning Drive this morning.  He also refuted, on Morning Drive, that he found the ball as the caddie has claimed. 

 

It seems to me, the caddie screwed up and isn't willing to admit so.

[cnosil]

Sounds like there are multiple stories. Probably will never hear the complete story. After reading the caddies statement that said they were still looking but had picked the drop spot it seems he may really be at fault.

[GolfSpy MPR]

I completely agree about Gibson's poor behavior.  Some guys would have knocked Gibson's block off!  I'm not so certain at least some fault doesn't lie with Davis though.  The rule clearly states, "any doubt should be resolved against the player".

 

This is a good example of a poorly written rule. The whole point of decision 26-1/9 is to allow for the caddie to pick up the ball with explicit verbal instruction. But, as you note, it also says that "any doubt should be resolved against the player." By its very nature, any situation without explicit verbal instruction could be construed as having some amount of doubt. Which means that, with one phrase, everything that the decision gives with one hand it takes away with the other, making the whole thing stupid.

[jaskanski]

Probably not as stupid as hooking a ball into a hazard when in contention. Or having the name Rhein either. 

[Shankster]

Even if it was my fault. I'd still toss his sticks in the drink if he threw that cover at me.

[sixcat]

This is a good example of a poorly written rule. The whole point of decision 26-1/9 is to allow for the caddie to pick up the ball with explicit verbal instruction. But, as you note, it also says that "any doubt should be resolved against the player." By its very nature, any situation without explicit verbal instruction could be construed as having some amount of doubt. Which means that, with one phrase, everything that the decision gives with one hand it takes away with the other, making the whole thing stupid.

 

But couldn't one also make the argument that Gibson's body language and behavior leave doubt as to what his intentions were?  If a landing area and drop zone had already been selected and conversations had taken place on how to proceed, why throw putter covers and fire the caddie in the manner in which Gibson did?

 

As others have stated, we will likely never know the whole story as to what actually happened.  I tend to believe Jim Duncan, knowing his character and professionalism in his role as Vice President of Rules, Competitions and Administration for the Web.com Tour.  Not to mention, the caddie and player both have an "agenda"! 

[GolfSpy MPR]

But couldn't one also make the argument that Gibson's body language and behavior leave doubt as to what his intentions were?  If a landing area and drop zone had already been selected and conversations had taken place on how to proceed, why throw putter covers and fire the caddie in the manner in which Gibson did?

 

As others have stated, we will likely never know the whole story as to what actually happened.  I tend to believe Jim Duncan, knowing his character and professionalism in his role as Vice President of Rules, Competitions and Administration for the Web.com Tour.  Not to mention, the caddie and player both have an "agenda"! 

 

I honestly don't want to defend anyone here; I think there's lots of blame to go around. But from the caddie's own report, he didn't know the decision that might have allowed him to protest. I suspect it's a safe assumption that the player didn't as well.

 

So the caddie picks up the ball, the penalty is assessed, and neither Gibson nor his caddie know that they might have grounds to protest that decision. They don't think they have any choice but to accept the penalty, and so Gibson is irate.

 

So Gibson's temper tantrum doesn't necessarily indicate that there was doubt about whether he was going to drop. It may (again, not pretending to know what's going through his mind) simply mean that he wasn't aware that the rules allowed for what his caddie did (and I do think that that ignorance is very, very likely).

[Flipper554]

Not a very classy move throwing stuff at people no matter the circumstance. Stuff happens in golf all the time that is out of our control but childish tantrums are no way to deal with it.

[sixcat]

I honestly don't want to defend anyone here; I think there's lots of blame to go around. But from the caddie's own report, he didn't know the decision that might have allowed him to protest. I suspect it's a safe assumption that the player didn't as well.

 

So the caddie picks up the ball, the penalty is assessed, and neither Gibson nor his caddie know that they might have grounds to protest that decision. They don't think they have any choice but to accept the penalty, and so Gibson is irate.

 

So Gibson's temper tantrum doesn't necessarily indicate that there was doubt about whether he was going to drop. It may (again, not pretending to know what's going through his mind) simply mean that he wasn't aware that the rules allowed for what his caddie did (and I do think that that ignorance is very, very likely).

I can see neither caddie nor player having a very good grasp on the rules.  Especially when you consider, neither knew they could protest the official ruling.  I just don't believe any rules official, especially one as experiences as Duncan, would haphazardly issue a penalty in that circumstance.  Something in that moment gave him doubt as to the intentions of the player.

 

Maybe the language of the rule needs to change but, as it's written, it was correctly applied in my opinion.

[GolfSpy MPR]

I can see neither caddie nor player having a very good grasp on the rules.  Especially when you consider, neither knew they could protest the official ruling.  I just don't believe any rules official, especially one as experiences as Duncan, would haphazardly issue a penalty in that circumstance.  Something in that moment gave him doubt as to the intentions of the player.

 

Maybe the language of the rule needs to change but, as it's written, it was correctly applied in my opinion.

 

And it's worth adding that, however it went down, Gibson and his caddie both carry the blame of not knowing the rules. The rules and decisions can be arcane, and it think's its understandable that recreational golfers don't know them exhaustively. But if golf is your livelihood, know the rules.

[STUDque]

"5 iron huh? Well, you're fired"

 

 

God I hate when people are crybabies and blame someone else for their own misfortune. This kid is gonna have a tough time replacing his caddie that's for sure. Even if the caddie made a boneheaded decision, it still wasn't malicious and he didn't deserve to be publicly embarrassed.

 

 

Whenever I get mad that I can't find my ball in the rubbish, I remind myself that it would've been a lot easier to find in the fairway.

 

 

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[sixcat]

"5 iron huh? Well, you're fired"

 

 

God I hate when people are crybabies and blame someone else for their own misfortune. This kid is gonna have a tough time replacing his caddie that's for sure. Even if the caddie made a boneheaded decision, it still wasn't malicious and he didn't deserve to be publicly embarrassed.

 

 

Whenever I get mad that I can't find my ball in the rubbish, I remind myself that it would've been a lot easier to find in the fairway.

 

 

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I think this is a great point.  Anyone Gibson tries to hire as a caddie will be hesitant to take the job, I would think.

[GolfSpy MPR]

Shooter McGavin actually weighed in on this:

 

[PMookie]

Sadly, so many people blame a team, a player, etc. on a last shot, last play, or here, the last hole. It is the player's fault, and only the player's fault for having finished second. Had he made a few more putts, hit a couple more greens, even hit a few more fairways, this happening on the final hole would not have mattered.

 

As a coach, I used to remind my teams had we given up one or two fewer offense rebounds, played defense and shut them down on a few more possessions , we would not have lost a game on the last second shot. Same applies here. Don't blame the caddie for the $12,000 loss, blame yourself for not having taken care of YOUR business.

 

 

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[StrokerAce]

I've never been a caddie before and don't know anyone who has.  They must have some fantastic stories about who is great to work for and who is a total a-hole.  Maybe there's a good book or something...although, unless they're retired they probably don't want to go public to ensure their job security.  We've seen some high profile firings lately.

 

Has anyone been a caddie and experienced anything like this? 

Not necessarily a PGA tour caddie but just a caddie in general.

[sixcat]

Sadly, so many people blame a team, a player, etc. on a last shot, last play, or here, the last hole. It is the player's fault, and only the player's fault for having finished second. Had he made a few more putts, hit a couple more greens, even hit a few more fairways, this happening on the final hole would not have mattered.

 

As a coach, I used to remind my teams had we given up one or two fewer offense rebounds, played defense and shut them down on a few more possessions , we would not have lost a game on the last second shot. Same applies here. Don't blame the caddie for the $12,000 loss, blame yourself for not having taken care of YOUR business.

 

 

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Unfortunately, we're raising a generation of kids who have never learned to deal with adversity.  Athletics as a whole have been a teaching tool to that extent for generations.  Sadly, now we give everyone a participation trophy and never keep score. 

[tony@CIC]

Perhaps we should send Mr. Gibson a link to our 'frustrated' thread. Throwing anything on the pro or amateur circuit is just poor sportsmanship.

 

 

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[lou mcconaughey]

The guy is a punk. Who in the hell put the ball in the hazard. Was that dumb? Yes it was. But you don't treat your caddie like that. He's an employee. Just a thought

 

 

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[L.I. Rich]

I was watching this last night and remember considering what I would do if I were Gibson.

 

Making an assumption that to that point the caddy had been performing his duties well enough that summary dismissal was inappropriate or just bad form (none of us know this that I'm aware), it seems to me that the player has to reward the good and penalize the bad. If I were Gibson I'd have fined the caddy after the round. I don't know if players do this or not, but it seems like a reasonable practice to me. I understand bandleaders would do this routinely.

 

Expensive mistake. Gibson gets fined with less prize money by default. The caddy should feel the bite for his mistake.

[sixcat]

Has anyone been a caddie and experienced anything like this? 

Not necessarily a PGA tour caddie but just a caddie in general.

I have had the pleasure of caddying for some pretty talented juniors on occasion.  All before I had kids of my own so, nothing recent.  I don't have any sensational stories but one I think many will find interesting.

 

I caddied for a local junior in a US Junior Am qualifier several years ago.  Actually, the same kid I mentioned in my first post of this thread.  My player was paired with Peter Uihlein for the opening round.  There would only be one transfer spot due to the small turnout for this particular qualifier.  My player torched the Cobb Course at Glade Springs in West Virginia with an opening round 63.  Uihlein was in solo second, 10 shots behind in a 36 hole qualifier.  We felt good about our situation.

 

Uihlein came back with an impressive 65 while my player forgot he had ever played the game of golf and limped home with a 94.  Uihlein was polite, gracious and exceptionally well mannered the entirety of round one, when it looked as if he may not qualify as the #1 ranked junior in the world.  He was equally polite, gracious and supportive in round two when it was obvious, my player wasn't handling the pressure very well.  I gained a lot of respect for not only Peter Uihlein that day but his father as well.  

[tony@CIC]

I was watching this last night and remember considering what I would do if I were Gibson.

 

Making an assumption that to that point the caddy had been performing his duties well enough that summary dismissal was inappropriate or just bad form (none of us know this that I'm aware), it seems to me that the player has to reward the good and penalize the bad. If I were Gibson I'd have fined the caddy after the round. I don't know if players do this or not, but it seems like a reasonable practice to me. I understand bandleaders would do this routinely.

 

Expensive mistake. Gibson gets fined with less prize money by default. The caddy should feel the bite for his mistake.

Aren't caddies paid a percentage of the winnings? If so he got penalized as well.

 

 

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[L.I. Rich]

Aren't caddies paid a percentage of the winnings? If so he got penalized as well.

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That's my understanding, but there can be scenarios in which a caddy costs a player a few strokes which doesn't directly affect the prize money.

 

It wasn't an attractive scene. I watched the group shake hands after the hole concluded and I didn't see his caddy and I remember thinking, “I bet he fired him on the spot like in Tin Cup”.

[GolfJunkie302]

Just got around to watching the video the caddy made in defense. Pretty solid and I agree with his ruling. Not a penalty, IMO.

 

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