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Ditching the Hybrid


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You hit the 818 h2? Will be at the top of my list to try if my Mizuno fli hi can't consistently cover the distance gap I need

Yes, I own one with the Tensei white 90x. It is in my Titleist bag.

In the Bag for 2020

PXG 0811XF Gen 2 10.5* (set at 9*) AD VR 6x

PXG 0341X Gen 2 15* AD TP 7x

PXG 0317X Gen 2 19* KBS Proto 95x

PXG 0311T Gen 3 4-6 KBS $ Taper 130

PXG 0311 ST 7 - PW KBS $ Taper 130

PXG 0311 Sugar Daddy 50/10 KBS $ Taper 130

PXG 0311 Sugar Daddy 54/10 & 58/07 TTDG TI S400

:rife-putters-1: Two Bar Blade Long 47"

 

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I feel I have given hybrids enough of a chance but these things don't work for me. I'm at a loss as to why. Perhaps I just need a fitting but I've tried small head hybrids; larger, almost fairway

get a 64' wedge that's something that can do damage to anyone's game.

I was on the range the other week hitting one of my Mac Custom 5 woods. THis kid beside me got curious and real politely asked me "Sir when did they start making hybrids out of wood?" He was sincere.

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Many hybrids are not well designed for the better player. Their lie angles are too upright in order to accommodate the higher handicapper who tends to come over the top.

I have to call BS on this. I don't believe there is a correlation between your lie and handicap.

 

Thanks for providing my next golf spy question.

 

I bought a 3-4 Cobra F7 based on the most wanted results. I may just be lucky but the fujikura pro75h and those rails produce killer shots for this high handicapper. I started in the neutral position and hit good shots then moved it to 19.5D for gapping purposes and still hit it well. Goes 210-200 for me.

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Krank Formula X LAGP Ozik Black Tie 70X 45" 9*

:755178188_TourEdge:CBX 3 Wood Matrix HD Radix S VIII 43" 15*

Krank Formula X 5 Wood Matrix HD Radix S VIII 42" 18*

Wishon Golf 775HS 3H Matrix Ozik Altus Hybrid X-Flex  39.75" 21*

Wishon Golf 585HI 3DI  same shaft as irons 38.25" 21*

Wishon Golf 575 MMC Forged 5-A N.S.Pro Modus 3 Tour 120X

Wishon Golf Micro-Groove HM S, L same shaft as irons 

:EVNROLL: ER7B Gravity Grip 35"

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I carry a Ping G 4 hybrid. Sometimes I switch it out for a 4 iron. I like both but the hybrid is far more versatile, hits the ball nice and high and lands soft. Also very good around the greens for those little bump shots. I am more of a sweeper so that might have something to do with it, as I have no problem playing either.

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Driver: Cobra F8 Tour length

3W: Cobra King F7 3/4 Wood

5W: Cobra King F7 5/6 Wood

Hybrid 3/4: Cobra F7 20.5*

Irons: 5 to PW Taylormade P790

A Wedge: 48* Vokey SM6 F grind

S Wedge: 54* Vokey SM6 M grind

L Wedge: 58* Vokey SM6 M grind

Putter: Rife Two Bar Hybrid 35" P2 Aware Tour grip

Ball: Taylormade TP 5X

Bag: Hot Z Canadian flag 🇨🇦

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I struggle with my hybrids. Which ones do you play that look like irons? I may have to try them.

 

I play these: https://www.golfworks.com/maltby-ke4-tour-hdi-hybrids/p/MA0238/

 

But I have the 3, 4 and 5. They've discontinued them and only have the 5 available now. You could look at the new Cobra ones which are very similar.

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In the bag:
Driver: :taylormade-small: M5 Project X Even Flow Blue 6.0
Fairway: Sub 70 939X 15° Project X Even Flow Blue 6.0
Hybrid: :755178188_TourEdge: CBX 119 19° hybrid Project X Even Flow Blue 6.0
Irons: :wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged 4-GW Project X Catalyst 80 6.0
Wedge: :cleveland-small: Smartsole S
Putter :yes-small: Tracy
Bag: 
:Ogio: Alpha Convoy 514
Balls::Snell: MTB-X or Black

Cart: :CaddyTek: CaddyLite ONE Ver. 8


God Bless America🇺🇸, God save the Queen🇬🇧, God defend New Zealand🇳🇿 and thank Christ for Australia🇦🇺!

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Used to carry 3 and 4 hybrid (both xr). Now I just carry a ping g30 19* w/ tour shaft. It has made me focus on hitting 4 iron better, though not always perfect.

 

You could carry as many hybrids as you want. Look at various LPGA players, They play what works for them, in conjunction with their distance gapping, which is a priority.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

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WITB 2019
Driver: Ping G30 10.5* w/ Tour 65 Stiff 

FW: Ping G30 14.5 & 18 w/ Ping Tour 80 Stiff

HY: Ping  G30 19* OR 22* w/ Ping Tour 90 Stiff

Irons: Callaway Xhot Pro 5i-PW w/ PX Flighted 6.0

Wedges: Cleveland RTX 2.0 50*, 54*,60*

Putter: Ping My Day OR Ping Anser 3

Ball: :titelist-small: ProV1/V1x OR Srixon Zstar/XV

Bag: Sun Mountain 2019 4.5 14way carry

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I have to call BS on this. I don't believe there is a correlation between your lie and handicap.

 

Thanks for providing my next golf spy question.

 

I bought a 3-4 Cobra F7 based on the most wanted results. I may just be lucky but the fujikura pro75h and those rails produce killer shots for this high handicapper. I started in the neutral position and hit good shots then moved it to 19.5D for gapping purposes and still hit it well. Goes 210-200 for me.

What part is BS? I think it's an accurate statement that most hybrids are hook-prone for a player who swings from the inside and it is true that flatter lie angles would match up better for that player. Also true that hybrid lie angles are not easily adjustable, and that these clubs have been manufactured largely for a player who struggles with the sweeping motion necessary for good long iron or fairway wood play.

:callaway-small: Rogue SZ 10.5 *NEW* Fujikura Pro Green 65 X

:callaway-small: Rogue 15 degree Evnflow Blue 6.5

Back in the Bag :srixon-small: Z765 4-G Nippon Modus 120 Stiff

:vokey-small: 54 and 60

 

:bobby-grace-1: Amazing Grace Ass Kicker

 

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When people say they are ditching a hybrid that hurts my heart. I find it one of the easiest clubs to hit. I play with a callaway apex and I like when yardage brings that into play. Hell I even choke down sometimes to use it more. Maybe a couple lessons will be a simple enough fix for you to enjoy them

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I play these: https://www.golfworks.com/maltby-ke4-tour-hdi-hybrids/p/MA0238/

 

But I have the 3, 4 and 5. They've discontinued them and only have the 5 available now. You could look at the new Cobra ones which are very similar.

Too bad. I would pull the trigger on the 3 TODAY if it was available, and ditch my current 3h.

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th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg Gen1 0811X 12° driver w/Project X Evenflow Blue 55g shaft
post-76102-0-38507100-1525284411.jpg KE4 TC 16° 4 wood w/Kuro Kage Black 60g shaft

:srixon-small: Z355 22° 7 wood w/Miyazaki Jinsoku shaft
post-76102-0-38507100-1525284411.jpg KE4 TC 19° 3 hybrid w/UST Proforce V2 Black shaft
post-76102-0-38507100-1525284411.jpg KE4 TC 22° 4 hybrid w/UST Proforce V2 Black shaft

:tour-edge: HL E521 25° 5 hybrid w/Fubuki HD55 shaft
:tour-edge: HL4 6 Ironwood w/UST for TE graphite shafts
post-76102-0-38507100-1525284411.jpg KE4 Tour+ irons 7-PW w/UST Competition Series graphite shafts

:cleveland-small: CBX2 50° wedge w/Rotex shaft
post-76102-0-38507100-1525284411.jpg M-Series+ 56° wedge w/UST Recoil 660 graphite shaft
:cleveland-small:  Huntington Beach Soft Premier 10.5

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I get along good with hybrids when I play them like an iron.

Maybe try the Cobra one length hybrid

Hit one of them a week ago, hell of a club. Thinking of adding it to the bag. Plus, its shorter length makes it an ideal bump n run club in my mind.

  :mizuno-small: ST180, 10.5, Kuro Kage Silver TINI Dual Core 60-S 

:callaway-small: Epic Flash Sub Zero, 15*, Kuro Kage Silver TINI Dual Core 60-S 

:cobra-small: F9 Speedback, 18.5, Hzrdus Yellow 70-S

:ping-small: G710, 4-UW, Blue Dot, Nippon Modus 105-S

:honma: TW-W4, 56*, Nippon Modus 125

:mizuno-small: T20, 61*, Nippon Modus 125

:nickent-small: Pipe

:bridgestone-small: Tour B-XS (2019)

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What part is BS?

That there is a correlation between positive lie angles and high handicap players.

 

Or the inverse, that there is a correlation between a low handicap game and negative lie angles in a player.

Krank Formula X LAGP Ozik Black Tie 70X 45" 9*

:755178188_TourEdge:CBX 3 Wood Matrix HD Radix S VIII 43" 15*

Krank Formula X 5 Wood Matrix HD Radix S VIII 42" 18*

Wishon Golf 775HS 3H Matrix Ozik Altus Hybrid X-Flex  39.75" 21*

Wishon Golf 585HI 3DI  same shaft as irons 38.25" 21*

Wishon Golf 575 MMC Forged 5-A N.S.Pro Modus 3 Tour 120X

Wishon Golf Micro-Groove HM S, L same shaft as irons 

:EVNROLL: ER7B Gravity Grip 35"

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That there is a correlation between positive lie angles and high handicap players.

 

Or the inverse, that there is a correlation between a low handicap game and negative lie angles in a player.

I'm not talking trash about someone's game, that's how the OEMs have made them. Tour heads or "players" versions are definitely manufactured flatter lie and to be less draw biased because that player already comes from the inside and isn't looking for help turning the ball over. GI and SGI stuff is definitely manufactured more upright to fit that player better.

Take TaylorMade for example- the new M3 Rescue (smaller, more compact head) 19° 3 hybrid has a lie angle of 59° and 21° 4 hybrid has a lie angle of 59.5°.

The M4 Rescue (larger head, more draw weighting) 19° 3 hybrid has a lie angle of 60° and 22° 4 hybrid has a lie angle of 60.5°.

What they call their better player's hybrids are all 1 degree flatter than the GI counterparts

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:callaway-small: Rogue SZ 10.5 *NEW* Fujikura Pro Green 65 X

:callaway-small: Rogue 15 degree Evnflow Blue 6.5

Back in the Bag :srixon-small: Z765 4-G Nippon Modus 120 Stiff

:vokey-small: 54 and 60

 

:bobby-grace-1: Amazing Grace Ass Kicker

 

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I'm not talking trash about someone's game, that's how the OEMs have made them. Tour heads or "players" versions are definitely manufactured flatter lie and to be less draw biased because that player already comes from the inside and isn't looking for help turning the ball over. GI and SGI stuff is definitely manufactured more upright to fit that player better.

Take TaylorMade for example- the new M3 Rescue (smaller, more compact head) 19° 3 hybrid has a lie angle of 59° and 21° 4 hybrid has a lie angle of 59.5°.

The M4 Rescue (larger head, more draw weighting) 19° 3 hybrid has a lie angle of 60° and 22° 4 hybrid has a lie angle of 60.5°.

What they call their better player's hybrids are all 1 degree flatter than the GI counterparts

Very interesting! So a “Tour” head with the proper shaft could possibly help a mid capper who fights too much left in his game?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

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Callaway  Epic Flash 10.5 Driver
Callaway Epic Flash 3 hybrid
Callaway Big Bertha 2019  4 & 5 hybrid 
Tommy Armour 845 MAX 6 - GW Irons
Cleveland CBX 2 54 Degree SW
Cleveland CBX Full-Face Wedge 58 degree
Odyssey Arm Lock Putter 42 inch
 
 

 

 



 

 

 

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I'm not talking trash about someone's game,

 

It's all good, and I'm not picking a fight over it either. Naturally as club length gets shorter Lies increase as well. 

 

I still don't think a lie angle dictates how good you are.

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Krank Formula X LAGP Ozik Black Tie 70X 45" 9*

:755178188_TourEdge:CBX 3 Wood Matrix HD Radix S VIII 43" 15*

Krank Formula X 5 Wood Matrix HD Radix S VIII 42" 18*

Wishon Golf 775HS 3H Matrix Ozik Altus Hybrid X-Flex  39.75" 21*

Wishon Golf 585HI 3DI  same shaft as irons 38.25" 21*

Wishon Golf 575 MMC Forged 5-A N.S.Pro Modus 3 Tour 120X

Wishon Golf Micro-Groove HM S, L same shaft as irons 

:EVNROLL: ER7B Gravity Grip 35"

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Very interesting! So a “Tour” head with the proper shaft could possibly help a mid capper who fights too much left in his game?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

 

Yes!

Or you can just weaken your grip.

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Krank Formula X LAGP Ozik Black Tie 70X 45" 9*

:755178188_TourEdge:CBX 3 Wood Matrix HD Radix S VIII 43" 15*

Krank Formula X 5 Wood Matrix HD Radix S VIII 42" 18*

Wishon Golf 775HS 3H Matrix Ozik Altus Hybrid X-Flex  39.75" 21*

Wishon Golf 585HI 3DI  same shaft as irons 38.25" 21*

Wishon Golf 575 MMC Forged 5-A N.S.Pro Modus 3 Tour 120X

Wishon Golf Micro-Groove HM S, L same shaft as irons 

:EVNROLL: ER7B Gravity Grip 35"

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Yes!

Or you can just weaken your grip.

 

Yea the weaken grip helps when I want to cut the ball.  I didn't realize the lie angle was flatter on "pro or player" type hybrids.  I have a 2 hybrid I hit much more consistent than it do with my 3 & 4.  The 2 hybrid says tour on the bottom... 

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Callaway  Epic Flash 10.5 Driver
Callaway Epic Flash 3 hybrid
Callaway Big Bertha 2019  4 & 5 hybrid 
Tommy Armour 845 MAX 6 - GW Irons
Cleveland CBX 2 54 Degree SW
Cleveland CBX Full-Face Wedge 58 degree
Odyssey Arm Lock Putter 42 inch
 
 

 

 



 

 

 

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Not sure how you can correlate lie angle to player ability. Clubs are fit to the player. If a club is too upright when the player takes his stance the toe will come off the ground and close the face making pulls more likely. Too flat and the heel comes up and the face points right. There is no standard for lie angles from club model to club model much less from manufacturer to manufacturer.

 

See this demonstration, when a player lowers and raises the handle to setup to the ball. The lie angle doesn't change, just how the club is positioned

https://www.instagram.com/p/BfIvm8jF0iz/

 

Speaking in generalities I would say the draw bias if hybrids is more related to the head design to counter the fade most players have with longer irons. From what I remember when looking at hybrids a while ago most had a closed face angle. As hybrids have become more popular you are seeing more models with a square face.

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
Putter:  :odyssey-small: Ten S      Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330,   :EVNROLL: ER2.2,  

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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I picked up the Cobra F7 3/4 hybrid last summer and while the Fujikura pro 75X hybrid shaft was very good, the KBS Proto S+ 95 is unreal for me. The cobra head and rails have been a life saver, i have it dialed down to 16.5, but can go up to 19.5 as needed. Once i get my fairway wood back under control, i'll probably move it up a bit to fill that gap.  I used the hybrid it instead of my driver and fairway at times during my last 2 rounds and it was a beast. 

but as others have said, go with what works, be the 3i guy, you'll probably intimidate your playing partners

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What's in my  :cleveland-small: bag:

Driver :  :cobra-small: F9 10.5, Accra TZ5 Proto 65 M5 

Fairway  :cobra-small: F9 15.5° Aldila Tour Blue 75X 

Hybrid:  :cobra-small: King F7 18° KBS Tour PROTO Hybrid 95 S+

Irons:   :srixon-small: z585 4i - 6i,  z785 7i-PW, TT DG S300 HS 1x

Wedges:  :cleveland-small: CBX  50.11, 55.11, 60.10  TT DG S400 Black

Putter:  post-53756-150768041262.jpg Honey Badger 34" 

Ball:  :srixon-small: Q-Star Tour

 

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Not sure how you can correlate lie angle to player ability.

 

I'm not, but that's exactly what the OEMs do. Across the board they make what they describe as GI woods and hybrids longer, closed and more upright.

They also recognize that has a left a hole in their sales so now have what they market as "player's" options that are shorter, sit flatter and more neutral faced.

:callaway-small: Rogue SZ 10.5 *NEW* Fujikura Pro Green 65 X

:callaway-small: Rogue 15 degree Evnflow Blue 6.5

Back in the Bag :srixon-small: Z765 4-G Nippon Modus 120 Stiff

:vokey-small: 54 and 60

 

:bobby-grace-1: Amazing Grace Ass Kicker

 

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I'm sure this is well known but when you get fit for lie angle its for at impact. Not address. Any decent club fitter could careless if the club head it toe down or up at address as long as it is getting soled properly at impact

Not sure how you can correlate lie angle to player ability. Clubs are fit to the player. If a club is too upright when the player takes his stance the toe will come off the ground and close the face making pulls more likely. Too flat and the heel comes up and the face points right. There is no standard for lie angles from club model to club model much less from manufacturer to manufacturer.

See this demonstration, when a player lowers and raises the handle to setup to the ball. The lie angle doesn't change, just how the club is positioned
https://www.instagram.com/p/BfIvm8jF0iz/

Speaking in generalities I would say the draw bias if hybrids is more related to the head design to counter the fade most players have with longer irons. From what I remember when looking at hybrids a while ago most had a closed face angle. As hybrids have become more popular you are seeing more models with a square face.

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Driver:  :titelist-small: TSi3 (7.25*) - Tensei AV Raw White 65 X Tipped 1.5" & 0.5" Short, 2 extra grams in T1 Position

3 Wood: :titelist-small: TSi3 (13.5) - Tensei AV Raw White 70 X Tipped 1" & 0.5" Short, 2 extra grams in T Position

Driving Iron: :titelist-small: U500 2 iron - HZRDUS Smoke (X)

Irons (4-6) :titelist-small: T100S - KBS C-Taper X-Stiff

Irons (7-P) :titelist-small: 620 MB - KBS C-Taper X Stiff

Wedges: QAJzq7h.jpg SM7 Jet Black 50.F.12 / 55.S.11 / 60.M.08 - X100

Putter: 5WoCG8Y.jpgBlack ER2 (Finish Courtesy of NorCal Putters) - :P2-grips-logo: Aware Tour

Bag:  :titelist-small: Hybrid 14

Glove:  Under Armour Strikeskin Tour

Ball: :titelist-small: ProV1 Yellow #3

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I'm sure this is well known but when you get fit for lie angle its for at impact. Not address. Any decent club fitter could careless if the club head it toe down or up at address as long as it is getting soled properly at impact

 

Agree,  but a ciubs stock lie angle is not based on handicap level. The discussion started with a statement that players type hybrids have a more upright lie angle and a non players is flatter and that most people don't adjust the lie angle of a hybrid.  Given that scenario,  based on that if the lie angle is too upright,  they would most likely result in pull/pull hooks.  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
Putter:  :odyssey-small: Ten S      Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330,   :EVNROLL: ER2.2,  

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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