Why Are All The Forging Houses In Japan?

[Richie3Jack]

I was always curious about this. Seems to me with forged irons becoming more popular in the US as of late, you could get a forging house here in the US and make a good amount of money from OEM's instead of them having to get their clubs sent off to Japan.

 

 

 

 

 

3JACK

[tofudc5]

This is just my opinion, but the way I see it, when I go and buy a product and if it says "Forged in Japan" vs "Forged in USA" I'd buy Japan 100% of the time. Plus the factories are already set up and have a reputation in Japan for their forging process. All this leads to making the product more marketable I believe.

[mainuh]

you could get a forging house here in the US and make a good amount of money from OEM's instead of them having to get their clubs sent off to Japan.

 

R3J - simple answer = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

The cost of labor, government enviromental oversight and I'm sure other costs I am not aware of, all add up to costs that do not want to be carried by either the manufacturer nor the consumer.

 

rob

[jamo]

Maybe the strong Japanese tradition of samurai sword forging? I dunno. It doesn't help that Ping (one of America's largest clubmakers) doesn't forge clubs (until now, i guess).

[Moecat]

you could get a forging house here in the US and make a good amount of money from OEM's instead of them having to get their clubs sent off to Japan.

 

R3J - simple answer = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

The cost of labor, government enviromental oversight and I'm sure other costs I am not aware of, all add up to costs that do not want to be carried by either the manufacturer nor the consumer.

 

rob

 

Rob, I had this same conversation with Gene Nead not long ago, and I believe both of you are correct. Bottom line: it's cheaper to forge golf products in China and Japan than it is to have a forging house in the US.

[TWShoot67]

The main reason is wages in the US are TOO HIGH or thats what the OEM's & business owners will tell. we should all work for 4-7 dollars an hr with no benefits! Making a small profit for US business owners is just not good enough, the big time companies need to have all those corporate umbrellas in place so they can blame US wages for their demise when in fact it's the presidents and chairman that take 30 million dollar in buy outs when a company could have easily survived by making 5-20 percent profit. Clubs were being forged here back when Hogan,Snead,Nicklaus,Palmer and so on and so on were playing golf here in America. We lost our way here in America when it came to manufacturing. When places like Bethlehem Steel along with other big time manufacturing plants across America. The biggest problem is we are buying from all the other countries across the world, but these other countries like Korea,China,Japan,Thailand don't buy from us and that's just no right. Once upon a time all countries depended on us now we depend on all of the others. JMO. I may be completely wrong..... so have at it.

 

Tim

[Viper12]

The majority of forged irons in the states are made in China or other Asian countries while many of the top notch forgings are in Japan. There is no way in the US we can come anywhere close to match the cost of what they can in China. If it were a matter of Japan then yes if we could match their quality maybe.

[Richie3Jack]

TW - You're preaching to the choir here. Looking at the raise in salaries of the CEO's vs. the middle class worker is beyond staggering.

 

 

 

 

 

3JACK

[The Golf Hound]

There are only half a dozen forging houses in Japan, mostly in Himeji, and they are mostly the mutts nuts. You get what you pay for so if you want the best go Japanese.

 

Maybe we should save the conversation of one piece forgings vs spin welded hosels for another day?

[mainuh]

Rob, I had this same conversation with Gene Nead not long ago, and I believe both of you are correct. Bottom line: it's cheaper to forge golf products in China and Japan than it is to have a forging house in the US.

 

Moe - not only is the cost of forging less but you can include the costs associated with cast heads. Cruise through any of the forums where Tom Wishon, Mike Tait, Steve Almo,Ari/Scratch post and they have each addressed this issue.

 

This is really a complicated issue, I'm not an economist historian, but the downfall of companies like Bethlehem - a thumbnail overview of their demise...

 

The U.S. advantage lasted about two decades, during which the U.S. steel industry operated with little foreign competition. But eventually, the foreign firms were rebuilt with modern techniques such as continuous casting, while profitable U.S. companies resisted modernization. Meanwhile, U.S. steelworkers were given rising benefits.

By the 1970s, imported foreign steel was generally cheaper than domestically produced steel.

 

Given all this, you really have to hand it to the Gene Neads, Sunset Beaches, that are able to offer custom made, cnc'd putters for the same or near cost of Camerons,Bettinardi's.

 

rob

[titto the duke]

Japanese steel is the best in the world...

We also have good steel in one part of are small country...

But its seems...We hardened more are steel than the Japanese...

So if you want a lot of feel in your irons ... Go Japanese

[GolfSpy Dave]

Are the PING forged irons going to be forged in Japan or China?

[fozcycle]

Like TWshoot67 said above....."We lost our way here in America when it came to manufacturing...." when we opened up our labor to Unions. They were good for the laborer early on as the proprietors did not want to take care of the labor pool, but now, with all the gov't regs for human resources and safety, there is no real need for a union.....they simply drive the labor cost right through the roof.

[tofudc5]

Are the PING forged irons going to be forged in Japan or China?

I believe they are being made in China and assembled i the USA

[The Golf Hound]

We should also mention that tolerances come into play here a lot. Tolerances of forged products from Japan are much better than other countries. Club makers will appreciate this for club assembly, especially when it comes to head weight and consistency in the hosel.

 

Another consideration is techniques used for pressing grooves onto the face. I have seen some forgings from an unnamed company (not sure if I can say it but would love to) where they have worn off over a period of only 6 weeks. Granted, this was a 7 iron and I guess we use that more than most but even I would expect a longer life than that.

[Butz]

Hey everyone,

 

I just wanna share how Himeji forges, Click Here

[NGage]

I think most of them are in China, IIRC.....and it's mostly due to cheap labor.

[Addicted2Golf]

I think most of them are in China, IIRC.....and it's mostly due to cheap labor.

 

And as someone mentioned, the lack of environmental controls. I've traveled to Beijing a couple of times on business and the last time just before the Olympics. If I remember correctly, they had to halt commercial trucking for a few weeks before the Olympics and limited citizens from driving to every other day (based on whether your license plate number was odd or even). The smog in the city was horrible - much worse than New York or Los Angeles. Bottom line - they have allowed manufacturers to dump waste and poison the rivers and atmosphere without hardly any controls whatsoever. Only now are they starting to realize that they must put laws in place to restrict it or the cities where significant industry exists will be uninhabitable within a few decades.

[Addicted2Golf]

Hey everyone,

 

I just wanna share how Himeji forges, Click Here

 

Thanks for the link. Man, those heads are beautiful!

[jamo]

Hey everyone,

 

I just wanna share how Himeji forges, Click Here

 

Thanks for the link! That is awesome.

[NGage]

Thanks for the link. Man, those heads are beautiful!

 

They are....I'd love to be able to find something like that. I love to play obscure -- but quality -- clubs.

[Shambles]

The main reason is wages in the US are TOO HIGH or thats what the OEM's & business owners will tell. we should all work for 4-7 dollars an hr with no benefits! Making a small profit for US business owners is just not good enough, the big time companies need to have all those corporate umbrellas in place so they can blame US wages for their demise when in fact it's the presidents and chairman that take 30 million dollar in buy outs when a company could have easily survived by making 5-20 percent profit. Clubs were being forged here back when Hogan,Snead,Nicklaus,Palmer and so on and so on were playing golf here in America. We lost our way here in America when it came to manufacturing. When places like Bethlehem Steel along with other big time manufacturing plants across America. The biggest problem is we are buying from all the other countries across the world, but these other countries like Korea,China,Japan,Thailand don't buy from us and that's just no right. Once upon a time all countries depended on us now we depend on all of the others. JMO. I may be completely wrong..... so have at it.

 

Tim

 

It's not just labor that's involved. Back in the days when Bethlehem Steel still ruled they had the problem of needing heavy investments to modernize their equipment. The investors declined but the Japanese, who had been buying the junked U.S. cars for remelting and remanufacturing into new steel, jumped into the opening and when they were finished were able to pour 3 buckets of steel a day to Bethlehem's one.

 

These days I wonder if China will step in the way Japan did back then and become the new kings of steel. The world turns.

 

 

Shambles

[jamo]

It's not just labor that's involved. Back in the days when Bethlehem Steel still ruled they had the problem of needing heavy investments to modernize their equipment. The investors declined but the Japanese, who had been buying the junked U.S. cars for remelting and remanufacturing into new steel, jumped into the opening and when they were finished were able to pour 3 buckets of steel a day to Bethlehem's one.

 

These days I wonder if China will step in the way Japan did back then and become the new kings of steel. The world turns.

 

 

Shambles

 

Bethlehem Steel built some of the country's best industrial golf courses. Just thought I'd infuse a little golf into this conversation.

[xxio]

Excuse my ignorance. What is an "industrial golf course"?

[jamo]

Excuse my ignorance. What is an "industrial golf course"?

 

Golf courses built by industrial companies. Bethlehem Steel built Saucon Valley Country Club, which hosted last year's US Women's open, several Senior US Opens, and a US Amateur. It is located in Bethlehem, PA.

[xxio]

Golf courses built by industrial companies. Bethlehem Steel built Saucon Valley Country Club, which hosted last year's US Women's open, several Senior US Opens, and a US Amateur. It is located in Bethlehem, PA.

 

 

Thank you. It is nice to see a big company support the local community by building quality courses.