Jump to content

Jack Nicklaus vs The Golf Ball


Recommended Posts

Our Sponsors

http://www.golfchannel.com/article/golf-central-blog/nicklaus-eager-help-usga-rein-golf-ball-distance/

 

http://www.golfchannel.com/video/nicklaus-titleist-controls-game/

 

 

 

Jack Nicklaus wants to reign in the golf ball, bring it back "20%" .... back to when they used the wound golf ball. 

 

He says it's taking too long to play golf.  People don't have enough time to play golf, 5 hours or more.  

 

I don't think the golf ball has anything to do with the slow play today in golf.  We could go on for days about it but ... 

 

Calling out Titleist?  Really.  Just because "they control the game."

 

Thoughts?  

  • Like 4

WITB:  Do I like Titleist or what? 

 

Driver:   :titelist-small:  TS2 9.5* UST ATTAS COOOL 

Fairways  :titelist-small: HZRDUS Smoke 13.5*

Driving Iron:  :titelist-small: U500 17* UST V2

Irons  :titelist-small: T300 4 & 5 iron, T200 6 - W Project X Catalyst 100cw

Wedges  :vokey-small: SM7 48*, 52*, 56*

Putter  :cameron-small:  Newport  

Ball  :titelist-small: 2020 AVX

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 56
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I put this in the last thread about the distance problem, but I'll repeat it here.  From a podcast I listened to with Dean Snell talking about the ball and distance problem.   There are 4 parts to "

As much as I respect Jack and his achievements in the game, I really do get tired of his constant axe to grind with the golf ball. Just in case Jack has a short memory, it's worth noting that at a ti

3 years ago the USGA was all about teeing it forward.  Now they want us to not hit it as far.   Make up your mind, you can't have it both ways.

And the long hitters will still dominate.

 

Love Jack, but I never really thought of him as another good voice for the game. He always comes off as an old man screaming at kids to get off his lawn

  • Like 9

In my :mizuno-small: BR-D4 Stand Bag

:ping-small: G410 LST 9* VA Nemesys 65X
:ping-small: G410 LST 14.5* Tour AD DI 7X
:titelist-small: 818 H2 20* Tour AD DI 85X
:mizuno-small: MP20 HMB 4 Tour AD 95X
:mizuno-small: JPX 919 Tour 5-PW Oban CT 115 X(-)
:titelist-small: Vokey SM7 49F - 54S - 59D
:mizuno-small: M Craft II
:bridgestone-small: Tour B X
Link to post
Share on other sites

And the long hitters will still dominate.

 

Love Jack, but I never really thought of him as another good voice for the game. He always comes off as an old man screaming at kids to get off his lawn

The long hitters would dominate more because now those guys on your who hit it sub 300 carry are getting even longer approach shots into greens. So even if you take 50 yards away from DJ he will still have an advantage over the zach Johnsons of the tour

  • Like 4

Driver:   :callaway-small: Epic 10.5 set to 9.5 w/ Tour AD-DI 44.5

FW:   :cobra-small: F6 baffler set at 16º

Hybrid:  NONE
Irons:   :taylormade-small:  3i 2014 TP CB  4-PW 2011 TP MC w/ TT S400

Wedges:   :nike-small: 52º :nike-small: 56º  :edel-golf-1: 60 º w/ KBS C-Taper XS Soft-stepped

Putter:   :ping-small: Sigma G Tyne 34 inches Gold dot

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

From a "Basics Principles of Physics" perspective, Jack has a point re: increased distance as it relates to slow play.

 

More specifically, it is so much easier to hit a fairway with a ball that travels 250 yds than it is to hit the same fairway with a ball that travels 275 yds. If you'll concede the prior point but don't see Jack's reasoning yet, stay with me. In response to increases in ball distance, older designs have added tee boxes and newer designs are almost all 7000+ yards; but fairways haven't become appreciably wider. The same 250 yard mishit that put you on the right edge of the fairway now deposits you 5 yards into the deep stuff. And unfortunately, the 25 yard distance "advantage" has been absorbed by design changes so you're not any closer to the green than before the modern ball and now your lie is terrible.

 

The theory: a foursome playing at 6100 yards will score lower and subsequently play faster than the same foursome playing the same course at 6700 yards with a ball that travels 10% further.

  • Like 4

:cobra-small:______S9-1 Pro D - Matrix Ozik XCON 6 S
:cobra-small:______S9-1 Pro 15* - Matrix Ozik XCON 7 S
:nickent-small:________3DX 17* - Matrix Ozik Altus Hybrid SG
:Hogan:______ICON Black 4-PW - KBS Tour V S
:cleveland-small:__________588 RTG 49  RTX 52.10  56.12 - DG S400
BobbyGrace.png.1dc40002fcec0eee8603b71b3e706e89.png______Amazing Grace NYC Tour CS
:taylormade-small:_______'19 TP5X
(the preceding have all been gamer approved)

"The most important shot in golf is the next one“ - Ben Hogan

Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.golfchannel.com/article/golf-central-blog/nicklaus-eager-help-usga-rein-golf-ball-distance/

 

http://www.golfchannel.com/video/nicklaus-titleist-controls-game/

 

 

 

Jack Nicklaus wants to reign in the golf ball, bring it back "20%" .... back to when they used the wound golf ball.

 

He says it's taking too long to play golf. People don't have enough time to play golf, 5 hours or more.

 

I don't think the golf ball has anything to do with the slow play today in golf. We could go on for days about it but ...

 

Calling out Titleist? Really. Just because "they control the game."

 

Thoughts?

Don't understand how a golf ball at 80% would shorten the time to play the game. A ball that goes less distance means more strokes. What am I missing here?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

  • Like 4

Left Hand orientation

:ping-small: G410 SFT driver 

Cobra King F-9  5 wood
:ping-small:  410  Hybrids 22*, 26*

Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts 

:titelist-small: SM7 54* Wedge

:ping-small: Glide 3.0  60* Wedge

:odyssey-small: O Works putter
:918457628_PrecisionPro:NX9-HD

:CaddyTek: - 4 Wheel 
:footjoy-small: - too many shoes to list and so many to buy

:1590477705_SunMountain: And  BAG Boy

Golf Balls: Snell MTB-X 

2020 Official Tester :SuperSpeed: Beginning Driver Speed  - 78

2019 Official Tester :ping-small:  410 Driver

2018 Official Tester :wilson-small: C300

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Tony - he's assuming shorter courses.

 

@ Downlowkey those numbers would work except no amateurs by group actually average those distances. The scratch group averages right around 250, a 20 percent roll back mean ...200.

 

He's crazy - Jack that is. By his numbers the average tour driving distance would go back to hickory shaft days.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

  • Like 2

Ping G410 - set at 12 degrees, fade setting - Fujikura Motore X R flex

Ping G410 5-9 wood

G30 6-PW -  Aerotech FT 500 shafts

SCOR 48,52,56,60

EVNRoll ER 5

Titleist Pro VIx optic yellow with revkev stamped on them

Link to post
Share on other sites

Preach, Meyer!

 

And again, we ams generally don't get to play courses that are shaved to within a millimeter of their lives for optimal performance for a single week.

  • Like 1

What's in the bag:
Driver - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
3 Wood (16*) - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
4 Wood (17*) - :callaway-logo-1: Big Bertha S2H2 - RCH 90 "Firm"
4i - GW - :wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged - Recoil 760 ( S )
SW - LW - :cobra-small: F8 - N.S. Pro Modus3 Tour105 ( S )
Putter - :ping-small: Craz-e
Bag - :1590477705_SunMountain: 2.5 (Black)
Ball -  :srixon-small: Z-Star XV
Instagram - @hardcorelooper
Twitter - @meovino
Facebook - mike.eovino
 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Preach, Meyer!

 

And again, we ams generally don't get to play courses that are shaved to within a millimeter of their lives for optimal performance for a single week.

No kidding.  My home course is generally one of the nicer maintained courses in the area.  We always speed up the greens for a couple of events each year and everyone loves it.  I asked the Sup once how come we can't have them like that all the time.  He said the cost of mowing and rolling that often would be too high for the course to maintain.  Also the level of traffic we get on the green would just trash them if they were always that short and fast.

 

Just another example of how the pro game has almost nothing in common with the amateur game other than they are both called golf and played on a course.

  • Like 8

Driver: :callaway-logo-1: Epic SZ w/ VA Composites Raijin 65 04

3w: :taylormade-small:'16 M2 hl w/ Diamana D+ 82

5w: :cleveland-small: Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Yellow

Hybrid: :cleveland-small: 22 deg. Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Black

Irons: :ping-small: 5i-UW G700 w/ X100 soft stepped once

Wedges: :cleveland-small: 54 & 58 CBX w/ Nippon Modus 3 125

Putter: :odyssey-small: Red 7s

Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.golfchannel.com/article/golf-central-blog/nicklaus-eager-help-usga-rein-golf-ball-distance/

 

http://www.golfchannel.com/video/nicklaus-titleist-controls-game/

 

 

 

Jack Nicklaus wants to reign in the golf ball, bring it back "20%" .... back to when they used the wound golf ball. 

 

He says it's taking too long to play golf.  People don't have enough time to play golf, 5 hours or more.  

 

I don't think the golf ball has anything to do with the slow play today in golf.  We could go on for days about it but ... 

 

Calling out Titleist?  Really.  Just because "they control the game."

 

Thoughts?  

 

I'm a Jack fan however I think the old boy has been snorting too many cow paddies or something.  Especially if he's talking about making the average amateur's balls shorter.  Hell us old guys need more length not less and besides I think golf is doing just fine the way it is with the current equipment.   

  • Like 5

Callaway  Epic Flash 10.5 Driver
Callaway  XR16 4- Wood
Callaway Steelhead 3 Hybrid
Tommy Armour 845 MAX 5 - GW Irons
Cleveland CBX 2 54 Degree SW
Tommy Armour Over N Out 58 Degree Lob
Wilson Harmonized Chipper 32 Degrees
Ping  Sigma G Tyne Putter OR Odyssey Stroke Lab Double Wide

 

 

 



 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.golfchannel.com/article/golf-central-blog/nicklaus-eager-help-usga-rein-golf-ball-distance/

 

http://www.golfchannel.com/video/nicklaus-titleist-controls-game/

 

 

 

Jack Nicklaus wants to reign in the golf ball, bring it back "20%" .... back to when they used the wound golf ball. 

 

He says it's taking too long to play golf.  People don't have enough time to play golf, 5 hours or more.  

 

I don't think the golf ball has anything to do with the slow play today in golf.  We could go on for days about it but ... 

 

Calling out Titleist?  Really.  Just because "they control the game."

 

Thoughts?

 

Jack's been beating that drum for ever. Sure dial it back for the Pros, I don't care. As for us amateurs make that sucker fly, we foot the bill anyway give us some extra yards, and while you're at it make the hole bigger.

  • Like 4

Driver: Cobra F8 Tour length

3W: Cobra King F7 3/4 Wood

5W: Cobra King F7 5/6 Wood

Hybrid 3/4: Cobra F7 20.5*

Irons: 5 to PW Taylormade P790

A Wedge: 48* Vokey SM6 F grind

S Wedge: 54* Vokey SM6 M grind

L Wedge: 58* Vokey SM6 M grind

Putter: Rife Two Bar Hybrid 35" P2 Aware Tour grip

Ball: Taylormade TP 5X

Bag: Hot Z Canadian flag 🇨🇦

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • SPY VIP

If the USGA et al did decide to roll the ball back it could be a colossal SNAFU. 

 

As already stated, there are myriad factors which contribute to how far the current ball travels, not the least of which is how courses are typically set up. Then, there's the whole bifurcation dialogue to navigate. If there's a canon of golf tradition, the "one set of rules" might be entry #1 or #2. If there was a rollback for any select group (good luck drawing that line) it would absolutely contradict what the ruling bodies have said all along. 

 

This is an issue requiring some serious navigational skills and based on previous situations, I not sure the USGA is equipped to handle it.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a theory. Let's narrow the fairways and not cut them as short. Our fairways at our club at cut at .65”. Let's see you get 30 yards of roll. Not happening. Sure when you play on the best cut grass and dried out your distance gains are large. No need to bring the ball back. Let's make the courses the way they should be.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

  • Like 5

Driver: Taylormade M6 10.5*

FW: Sub70 16* 4 wood

Irons:  Sub 70 

699 Pro - 3 Iron (4 iron bent to 20*)

639 CB 4 - 6

639 MB 7 - PW

Wedges:

Titleist Vokey SM7 50* 54* & 60*

Putter: Taylormade Spider
Ball: Titleist Pro V1X
Bag: Sub 70 Cart Bag
Handicap index:  +3.5

Instagram: joshandersongolf

Twitter: @jacustomgolf

Link to post
Share on other sites

For the amateur encouraging them to play shorter tees should help speed up the game.  The ball should not change because most amateurs don't hit it that far anyway.  

 

Something needs to be done for the professional game to keep the driver distance under control.  Some of the statics show that the yardage increase has not been that much over the last 10 years but I am not buying that.  Some of the tournaments with wet fairways and no role the long hitters are still hitting over 300 yards.  

 

If the fairways start to narrow at a certain yardage and grow the rough longer seems to be the only way to roll things back with the current ball.  If they were going to create a new ball it would have to penalize the long player more than the shorter hitters.  I don't even know that is possible to do.  If you ball speed right now is over 160 then you get a  20% hit and under 160 it is more like a 5-10% hit.  

 

For slow play I think that the players should be able to use some sort of technology and have a shot clock.  Instead of the player and the caddie standing over the ball for 2 to 3 minutes trying to figure out a yardage they look at a tablet with all of the numbers they could ever want.  No math, no pacing off distances (especially when they pace something off all the way to the green).  Getting the exact yardage is a skill but I would guess most of the time they are getting the numbers correct but it takes too long.  The shot clock would be displayed on the tablet so the player and the caddie would know what was up.  Give the players a couple "extended" shot clocks each round for difficult shots where they really need more time.  The strategy on when to use these could be another thing for the fans to watch.  

 

Just my 2 cents. 

  • Like 1

Driver - Ping G410 Plus 10.5 - Ping Tour 65 Stiff

4 Wood - Callaway Rogue - Project X Evenflow blue 6.0

Hybrids - Titleist 818 H2 -  3(c-1) and 4(c-4) - Tensei CK Blue 70 stiff

Irons - Callaway Apex  CF 16 5-AW - True Temper XP 95 Steel Stiff

Wedges - Ping Glide 54 SS, 58 TS

Putter - Edel e1 Torque balanced

Indianapolis

5.5 Index

Link to post
Share on other sites

The only way I can get behind this is if this leads to bifurcation of the rules. One set for pro tournaments, one set for amateurs. If not, then it's cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

You roll the ball back 20%, it kills the game for most amateurs. Now obviously the ball is not the be all end all to the distance equation, but if your local dude sees that this ruling is coming and he only hits it 200 yards off the tee, he's now thinking he's going 160 off the tee and that's no fun for any of us. Participation will drop out among your most ardent supporters, namely the 50+ age group who doesn't have the power any more and turnout will suffer. This is dumb, just dumb.

  • Like 5

  :mizuno-small: ST180, 10.5, Kuro Kage Silver TINI Dual Core 60-S 

:callaway-small: Epic Flash Sub Zero, 15*, Kuro Kage Silver TINI Dual Core 60-S 

:cobra-small: F9 Speedback, 18.5, Hzrdus Yellow 70-S

:ping-small: G710, 4-UW, Blue Dot, Nippon Modus 105-S

:honma: TW-W4, 56*, Nippon Modus 125

:mizuno-small: T20, 61*, Nippon Modus 125

:nickent-small: Pipe

:bridgestone-small: Tour B-XS (2019)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm all for rolling back the pro ball if they feel the need, but that would suck if I lost 20% distance, and it would kill the enjoyment for lots of golfers I think. I wish they would just setup the pro courses with longer grass and narrower fairways. Hell have progressive rough where it's longer the further down the fairway you go.

  • Like 1

:ping-small:                      400 Driver (8*)                      UST ATTAS Punch 6S

:cobra-small:               F6 Baffler (16*)                      Matrix Red Tie 65Q4

:titelist-small:                        816 H1 Hybrid (21*,23*)        Diamana S+ Blue 82 HY

:srixon-small:                        Z765 (5-PW) +2*                    Aerotech Steelfiber i110cw

:titelist-small:                        Vokey SM5 50.08F 54.10M   Aerotech Steelfiber i110cw

:callaway-small:                         PM Grind 60*                         Dynamic Gold S400

:ping-small:                      TR 1966 Anser 2

 

:srixon-small: Z Star ball        

:ping-small:  Pioneer Cart Bag

Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess I don't see a problem with the distance tour players are hitting the ball.  No matter how I look at it, those guys are freaks!  It seems every week someone goes low for a round.  More players are shooting 59 these days, but why is that a bad thing??  Don't we all want to see birdies and eagles?  The difference today from yesterday is that anyone that tees it up can go low at anytime.  The top guys in driving distance hit driver/wedge a lot of the time, but for the most part the scores are about the same. The biggest factors in scoring these days are the weather and course conditions.    Want higher scores?  Change the course playing conditions.  

 

Jack is wrong about the ball.  Get off that horse Jack!  If the ball is changed, it will be a boon to the illegal golf ball market and OEMs will be forced to make one too!

  • Like 4

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

Link to post
Share on other sites

With all of the REAL problems that golf does have right now, why does Nicklaus decide to go after this? Ugh. Keep one set of rules (that's what makes the game special), and if a course wants to play soft and slow to tone down the long ball, so be it. If they want to pinch in landing areas at 290, go for it. If they just want to be Harbor Town, be Harbor Town (it works for them).

 

In the meantime, find a real problem to solve, Jack!

  • Like 4

What's in the bag:
Driver - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
3 Wood (16*) - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
4 Wood (17*) - :callaway-logo-1: Big Bertha S2H2 - RCH 90 "Firm"
4i - GW - :wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged - Recoil 760 ( S )
SW - LW - :cobra-small: F8 - N.S. Pro Modus3 Tour105 ( S )
Putter - :ping-small: Craz-e
Bag - :1590477705_SunMountain: 2.5 (Black)
Ball -  :srixon-small: Z-Star XV
Instagram - @hardcorelooper
Twitter - @meovino
Facebook - mike.eovino
 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...