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That's an interesting observation. Are you familiar with TPC Snoqualmie Ridge, the host course of the Boeing Classic on the Champions Tour? That course was "kicked out" last year (now it's The Club at Snoqualmie Ridge), but it still hosts the event. It's a private club, so I've only played there a couple of times. I think it's a really solid design. Great Jack Nicklaus layout with spectacular views. Not sure why it was released from the program. I also didn't know other TPCs were getting dumped...

 

 

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TPC Virginia Beach was dumped many years ago (2002) and is now Virginia Beach National. Never had a PGA event but did host a web.com, nationwide at that time, event for a couple of years

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For the record, I agree with what JT did yesterday re: the "patron", not with what he did on the green at the finish.  Save that for Rickie Fowler's pool later in the day. "Mashed Potatoes" guy and "

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I'll address the curse first since it's a quickie.  I think it's no big deal that he said it.  It is, however, a big deal that CBS not only failed to censor it but also replayed the clip unedited.  Th

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With all due respect there has to be an order to the courses in the Player's minds. The quote about no bad ones, except Torrey, was funny.

 

I'd remind everyone that Lee Trevino hated Augusta (probably still does).

 

From what I see of touring pros they tend to play most courses by hitting it long and then short irons in. PGA National stops that for them and forces choices. It also has a couple of Par 5's that are tough to hit in 2 but then do reward brave shots that are well executed.

 

I'm sure there's great diversity of opinion among players about their favorite and least favorite courses just as I'm sure there's a ranking among the TPCs. I agree with that.

 

I also know that there have been courses quietly “kicked out” because they aren't strong enough. I would guess that if they were a TPC they were reworked.

 

Personally I prefer Tampa to Scottsdale and River Highlands. It hosted a defunct Champion's tour event and I know the players loved it. A friend of mine and I differ to the point of not being able to talk about whether we prefer it or Bayou (my home course).

 

 

 

 

 

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Lee hated Augusta for more reasons than just the golf course. Don't forget that as well. So I'm sure that played into his view on the course. 

Lee also hit it very low and with a fade. 2 things that don't work particularly well together at Augusta. So the course wasn't set up great for him.

 

Torrey is just a boring course. Narrow and a lot of rough and trees. 

 

PGA National has too many water hazards and is also kinda boring.

 

Not saying that either can't produce some compelling golf and exciting tournaments. They just aren't great courses. 

 

This subject probably deserves its own thread. I honestly didn't mean to hijack this one. 

 

Here is a link that should somewhat help explain more of what I mean. I think you'll enjoy it. http://www.friedegg.co/golf-courses/definition-golf-course-architecture

 

 

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I'll draw a comparison with what happens in my workplace. If a member of the public verbally abuses someone working in my workplace, they are asked to stop, then if it continues a "Code Gray" is called and security comes to settle them down, usually with them leaving the building.

 

The incidence of health workers being verbally abused has gone through the roof over the last few years, and physical violence towards health workers has increased at an even greater rate. Quite often it is drug or alcohol related, but not always.

 

I don't have to put up with abuse in my work place, why should a tour pro? I'm certainly not against cheering after a bad shot, but keep it general and not personal.

 

Imagine if Justin Thomas went to this guys workplace and yelled directly at him. Pretty sure no one would think it was ok.

Sorry if I'm taking the conversation in an unintended direction...

 

Peaksy - I'd imagine that the verbal abuse you might take in your line of work would differ from what others of us receive. I manage IT consulting teams, and like Sixcat, I've been read the riot act by clients a few times. I've received dressings down from some clients that acted in a truly unprofessional fashion. And while I've jumped to the defense of my team, I also know that it comes with the territory. But I've never felt as though my team members or I were in danger.

 

I'm guessing that what you've seen in health care is an entirely different situation.

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Sorry if I'm taking the conversation in an unintended direction...Peaksy - I'd imagine that the verbal abuse you might take in your line of work would differ from what others of us receive. I manage IT consulting teams, and like Sixcat, I've been read the riot act by clients a few times. I've received dressings down from some clients that acted in a truly unprofessional fashion. And while I've jumped to the defense of my team, I also know that it comes with the territory. But I've never felt as though my team members or I were in danger.I'm guessing that what you've seen in health care is an entirely different situation.

I've really only ever had one minor problem directed at me personally, perhaps because I'm 6'1" and not skinny. I've seen lots of patients and family members get very aggressive towards coworkers. Drug issues (Ice in particular) are a big part of the problem. Occasionally we have staff members spoken to in a very unreasonable way by other staff, which gets reported quickly and dealt with. Thankfully, the days of surgeons throwing things at staff have long gone.

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So, I heard all this after the fact and just read a few of the comments here. This is my take. I think anything, minus obscenities, can be yelled out as long as the player has played his stroke already.... There is the guy who will yell out "Get in the hole" from the tee box on a par 5.... If they don't want people yelling out. Then they hold up the Quiet signs until the ball lands.

 

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@undershooter - In the end course design will be a subjective thing.

 

Welcome to Florida golf would be my response to PGA National having too many water hazards. But I'm going to follow your suggestion and start a new thread because the courses are clearly an interesting topic for some of us - unless you start it first.

 

@Peaksy I'm sorry that you face what you do at your work. I would not suggest Pros or anyone should be expected to endure that.

 

I am suggesting that it's okay for a fan to go and cheer for or against players. In fact it's nothing new. Ask Jack about how the galleries treated him early on even when the only courses used were country clubs. Greg Norman said he'd never return to the Metropolitan NYC area, Sergio's not particularly fond of that area either. I'm from that area BTW.

 

I wouldn't outwardly root against a player because it's not who I am. I have no issues with someone who does though. I have a much bigger issue with a player whining about it than I do the fan.

 

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Lee hated Augusta for more reasons than just the golf course. Don't forget that as well. So I'm sure that played into his view on the course. 

Lee also hit it very low and with a fade. 2 things that don't work particularly well together at Augusta. So the course wasn't set up great for him.

 

Torrey is just a boring course. Narrow and a lot of rough and trees. 

 

PGA National has too many water hazards and is also kinda boring.

 

Not saying that either can't produce some compelling golf and exciting tournaments. They just aren't great courses. 

 

This subject probably deserves its own thread. I honestly didn't mean to hijack this one. 

 

Here is a link that should somewhat help explain more of what I mean. I think you'll enjoy it. http://www.friedegg.co/golf-courses/definition-golf-course-architecture

 

 

“When I look out on a course and think, “That's good golf course architecture,” I see a course that is balanced.  It is a design that fits the lay of land - not overdone, and not forced or working against the canvas that nature provides - yet it is playable.”

-Keith Rhebb

Golf Course Architect

Rhebb Golf Design

 

I like this take.  I also love McKenzie's 13 principles.  Simple, effective and should be mandatory for all course design!  Especially #3.  Teeing grounds are commonly a driver-wedge from the previous green.  It's ridiculous. 

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I moved the course architecture question over to the 19th hole everything else so that we could focus on the JT discussion here. If anyone is interested.

 

 

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I moved the course architecture question over to the 19th hole everything else so that we could focus on the JT discussion here. If anyone is interested.

 

 

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Thanks! I've been meaning to start it but have been slammed lately. 

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Here is the moved Architecture thread for those interested. https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/22523-course-architecture/

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I hope a removal from a tournament picks up steam after more bad behavior.

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Every shot I watched yesterday someone yelled something dumb. It's almost unbearable.

The Tour needs to do something now, because its ridiculous at this point. I just don't understand why they even think they are funny. I can't stand obnoxious drunks and they are even worse at a golf tournament.

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I hope a removal from a tournament picks up steam after more bad behavior.

Every shot I watched yesterday someone yelled something dumb. It's almost unbearable.

Totally agree. I don't know who the most vicious, tough, scary linebacker is in the NFL, but ... I'd like to see these same guys - who yell out obscenities at JT, Rory and others - stand on the sidelines of an important NFL game and yell out the same crap at the top of their lungs.

 

Or... Maybe just any old NHL game?

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The Tour needs to do something now, because its ridiculous at this point. I just don't understand why they even think they are funny. I can't stand obnoxious drunks and they are even worse at a golf tournament.

Agree. They're not getting my business - I have absolutely no desire to pay good money and then be forced to stand next to that.
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If they stop selling alcohol they'll be ghost town events though unfortunately. I'm not against getting a buzz on and having fun, but save the screaming for NASCAR or something the fans can't hear you.

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It's why I tend to disagree when people say The Masters is why people think the sport is “elitist”, it isn't supposed to be a frat party out on the course.

 

The Masters should be how fans are EXPECTED to act, or be tossed.

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After McIlroy's comments following play yesterday, I think more and more players are going to force the Tour into some change or action. It's been needed for some time now. The tournaments can sell alcohol and still expect civil behavior. The Masters has been doing it for 80 years.

 

 

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If they stop selling alcohol they'll be ghost town events though unfortunately. I'm not against getting a buzz on and having fun, but save the screaming for NASCAR or something the fans can't hear you.

Sell fans a “drink wristband” with limited use. You can only buy so many beers. People will still come out.

 

 

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