The distance issue. (merged)

[Kor.A.Door]

Exactly - although it may be tough to change course just soften and tighten the ones that they use.

 

Instead we have a guy complaining that there is too much sand in a bunker. Personally I think there should be a different amount to f sand in every bunker so that they become true hazards.

 

 

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Marion US Open a few years back. That's how you fix the distance problem, course setup and design. Narrow, long rough, penalized for missing the green, they had a 100 yard hole and it played as one of the toughest holes in that tournament. Set the course up and take away the big drive and wedge, make it hurt to miss the fairway.

[Kenny B]

From my post on the blog article...

 

I like to see the pros hit long drives. Why would I want to see them hit it shorter? I thought the game of golf was about scoring… not how far someone hits the ball.

The Vardon Trophy is awarded by the PGA of America to the PGA Tour's leader in scoring average. In the past 25 years the winners of the Vardon Trophy have almost all been between 68-69 (OK, Tiger had a few years below 68). DJ won in 2016 with one of the highest scoring averages at 69.17 Long hitters and short hitters have won the Vardon Trophy. 

If the golf ball is flying too far, why isn't the scoring average going down?

[Street11]

I'm curious to know what my fellow golfers think on the topic. I am currently writing a paper on this for my Masters degree at Northwestern. It's no doubt that players are getting longer due to several factors. Is this a huge deal right now? How will it affect golf in 10 years if we don't do anything? If the USGA decides to do something, what do you think they should do? I'm just curious to see what you guys think.

 

 

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[DPattGolf]

Few different threads on this issue

[jaskanski]

Thankfully, for the majority of golfers distance isn't an issue. Lack of of it maybe, but certainly not too much of it.

Much has been made lately about the distance of pros hitting balls and making courses obsolete etc, and laying the blame at the ball. This is  not the case. If you delve into the official stats on distances then you will see that not much has changed for the likes of us and the pro tours have seen an incremental yet insignificant increase in distance (around 3 yards?) in the last 10 years.

The perceived increases are a result of these factors:

 

1. Players are fitter now than at any time in the past. Daily workout routines, fitness coaches, strict dieting all make for leaner and stronger golfers. Not just born out of the modern trend for health awareness which is prevalent, but also due to the fact they need the edge to compete for large prizes.

 

2. Course agrimony. Golf courses are as slick and manicured than they ever have been before, making fairways on tour look more like the greens we play. The result is greater roll out and distance on slicker and firmer course by design. Why? TV. Viewers love to see pretty courses with pros hitting bombs - then don't want to see pros hitting irons off the tee to avoid tight fairways lined with thick rough.

 

3. Equipment plays a part, but not in the way you think. If you look at the ball, it has been improved over the old wound balata and hence it's consistency, durability and spin control have made it easier to - hit it harder. In the old days with shorter, heavier, steel shafts this was almost impossible to generate the ball speed seen in todays game. Lightweight composite shafts make this possible today, simply because the bend profile can be controlled without distortion to accept a swing that the player has no trouble in making contact with the ball without losing dispersion. TX flex shafts below 60g are now commonplace Go back to using 42" driver shafts at 120g and I doubt you would see many drives longer than 260 yards on a regular basis. 

 

4. Data analysis is greater now than it has ever been. Meaning, the aforementioned seasoned pros can now see their ball data in real time and tweak their equipment to fit their swing much easier. Optimization of loft to AoA and launch angle makes for instant distance gains for those with the technical know-how. It's never been easier to fit clubs to an individual to enhance the distance - especially for the driver where launch characteristics can be controlled from the tee.

 

5.The rest of the golfing population are still struggling with the same rules that apply to us all. Therefore the disparity between the pros and the hackers seems greater. The average weekend player still won't get a set that fits them properly, still won't take lessons on regular basis and still don't practice enough to ever get the average distances up enough to matter. 

 

So if you do nothing in the next 10 years, then probably nothing will change for the average golfer. However, if you assume that prize money increases for pros in competition, then you can bet that they will find a way around the stats to improve their chances of winning. So rather than finding fault with the humble golf ball which has been regulated for size, weight and initial velocity for years, then something needs to be looked at on clubs for length and weight too. It's a simple matter of physics that has been overlooked by the ruling bodies I think, but as with anything else, it's still an advantage to the fastest and the strongest.

[tony@CIC]

I should be so lucky to have a distance issue. Haven't seen that problem with my fellow golfers as well.

 

 

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[Flipper554]

I think Jankanski pretty much covered it off. I don't see distance being a problem with amateur players for the simple fact that recreational golfers are just not going to put in the time and effort. With all of the improvements in the game the average score has not really dropped any over the last several years. The only distance issue I have is that I am standing too close to my ball after I've hit it.

[Street11]

Ha where is this distance issue for recreational golfers coming from? None of us need to hit it shorter, we can use all the help we can get. This is purely from the tours and how those changes can trickle down to us, with longer courses needing more maintenance (more costs to us) and the playing time increasing. Those are factors that are not good for golf and don't help grow the game.

 

 

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[HardcoreLooper]

Ha where is this distance issue for recreational golfers coming from? None of us need to hit it shorter, we can use all the help we can get. This is purely from the tours and how those changes can trickle down to us, with longer courses needing more maintenance (more costs to us) and the playing time increasing. Those are factors that are not good for golf and don't help grow the game.

 

 

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But the vast majority of us don't play courses that host tour events, and therefore don't need a set of back tees that are 7400 yards. So really no need to lengthen most courses. I just don't see how the negligible distance gains that amateurs are seeing are forcing most courses to get longer.

 

I'd like to see Augusta take the lead on this and limit rollout. Grow the fairways slightly longer and mow them toward the tee box. Put a little more water on them to soften them up while they're at it.

[revkev]

Okay Street11, I will play. Northwestern is a great school so understand below is meant as a challenge to help you think through the issue. Thanks for your work and I do agree that the tours create a certain perception about golf and it has an impact on the game. I'm

 

Where's the data to back up the claim that “It's beyond doubt that players are getting longer...”?

 

Longer than what? Longer than hickory shaft days? Persimmon driver? Last ten years? ((Perhaps not really as several rebuttals to the recent joint report have demonstrated)

 

I would say that you will also need data to back up the assertion that longer courses are the contributing factor to longer rounds or even a contributing factor at all.

 

We have dealt with the topic on several threads. There's a clear consensus that distance is not a factor for the overwhelming number of golfers. Actually the ones whom it may challenge the most are course architects. Designing a course that works from four or five sets of tees that range from 7400 to 5700 is not easy.

 

 

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[Kenny B]

Okay Street11, I will play. Northwestern is a great school so understand below is meant as a challenge to help you think through the issue. Thanks for your work and I do agree that the tours create a certain perception about golf and it has an impact on the game. I'm

 

Where's the data to back up the claim that “It's beyond doubt that players are getting longer...”?

 

Longer than what? Longer than hickory shaft days? Persimmon driver? Last ten years? ((Perhaps not really as several rebuttals to the recent joint report have demonstrated)

 

I would say that you will also need data to back up the assertion that longer courses are the contributing factor to longer rounds or even a contributing factor at all.

 

We have dealt with the topic on several threads. There's a clear consensus that distance is not a factor for the overwhelming number of golfers. Actually the ones whom it may challenge the most are course architects. Designing a course that works from four or five sets of tees that range from 7400 to 5700 is not easy.

 

 

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Agree!  But change 5700 to 5200.

[revkev]

Agree! But change 5700 to 5200.

 

 

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[JTexGolfer]

Instead of a ball rollback is like to see the PGA Tour and USGA adopt a smaller driver head size for pro events only like 300cc or so, but with the same COR limits as now. That way the equipment companies can still have innovation, just in a smaller box.

 

I drug out an old persimmon the other day for fun on the range and it goes fine when you hit it straight. Mess up though and it's going wide! I think this would be a win win for pros and fans. Make a good swing and you can still kill it but you can't just go at everything 10000% or it will bite you.

 

I don't see any reason to change anything for us regular folks. I average 275 off the tee and I dang sure don't want to lose any of that!

[Golfspy_CG2]

My thoughts:

 

Don't change a damn thing for Pro's or Am's

 

That's all!

[HardcoreLooper]

Actually the ones whom it may challenge the most are course architects. Designing a course that works from four or five sets of tees that range from 7400 to 5700 is not easy.

You nailed it there. And I never really paid any attention to it until my older daughter got to high school. So many of the tee boxes she plays are set at really lousy angles.

 

 

My thoughts:

 

Don't change a damn thing for Pro's or Am's

 

That's all!

Amen. What problem are they trying to solve? The distance that tour players are hitting the ball is not keeping people from playing the game. Lots of things are keeping people from playing the game, but it's not distance out on tour.

[Canucklehead]

You nailed it there. And I never really paid any attention to it until my older daughter got to high school. So many of the tee boxes she plays are set at really lousy angles.

 

 

 

Amen. What problem are they trying to solve? The distance that tour players are hitting the ball is not keeping people from playing the game. Lots of things are keeping people from playing the game, but it's not distance out on tour.

My mom refuses to play a couple courses around us because of the forward tee placement. Always along a tree line and if it's a dog leg right, you can bet the box is on the right tree line. Also quite small. Almost like they're an afterthought

 

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[HardcoreLooper]

My mom refuses to play a couple courses around us because of the forward tee placement. Always along a tree line and if it's a dog leg right, you can bet the box is on the right tree line. Also quite small. Almost like they're an afterthought

And female golfers definitely seem to be an afterthought. Wish I'd done more to be an advocate for female golfers in the past. Maybe that's why I have two in my family now ;-)

[revkev]

A well designed course plays well from every tee box -

 

 

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[Golfspy_CG2]

You nailed it there. And I never really paid any attention to it until my older daughter got to high school. So many of the tee boxes she plays are set at really lousy angles.

 

 

 

Amen. What problem are they trying to solve? The distance that tour players are hitting the ball is not keeping people from playing the game. Lots of things are keeping people from playing the game, but it's not distance out on tour.

That is such a great statement that doesn't get talked about enough.  Hammer meet nail!!