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Hey all,

 

Been doing some thinking/research, what does everyone think separates the scratch golfer/am player from the tour player? Is it all mental? Or is there just a certain level of physical talent they possess that we can never understand?

 

 

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Just look at Zach Johnson. He averages 291 off the tee, and that's 143rd on the PGA tour. So he doesn't hit it that far, and he still hits it much longer than the average scratch golfer. The USGA didn't give us driving distance data for 0 handicappers, but for male golfers with a handicap under 6, the average is 236. Go ahead and say that the sixes are definitely dragging down the zeroes. If you gave the scratch golfers another 30 yards, they're still 25 yards short of Zach. So yes, their physical games are far beyond even a zero handicap.

 

And then yes, their mental games are much better. They're much better equipped to deal with the pressure because they do it on a regular basis. There are plenty of guys out there with million dollar games and 50 cent brains. They're not playing the tour.

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They can hit a ball to a four square foot target... We can't hit a freaking green!

 

 

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I think it's largely physical ability. I'm a 0-1 and over the course of the year average about 75. Can shoot a couple rounds a year in the 60s but overall my average is over par. I drive the ball about 270, can think my way around the course well, I do a good job of seeing angles and lines, I know where to put the ball for specific hole locations. But I just can't do what I want with the golf ball on a consistent basis, so I can't take advantage of a good mental game. I think most low single digits are basically trying to make it go forward at the target most of the time.

I also know some guys who are +4s and +5s, and some mini tour players. Serious players who are capable of low scores and competing in national events and they are nowhere close to being tour pros. They are tour length off the tee most of the time but don't necessarily control shot shape the way PGA Tour pros do. They have very good short games but tour pros have magical short games. They are decent with wedges but tour players threaten the hole with wedges. They hit a lot of greens but tour pros hit the ball the correct yardage shot after shot day after day. Tour players are just a little bit more physically gifted at controlling the golf ball in all phases of the game and it makes all the difference in the world.

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Mental approach, wedge play and putting.

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Hey all,

 

Been doing some thinking/research, what does everyone think separates the scratch golfer/am player from the tour player? Is it all mental? Or is there just a certain level of physical talent they possess that we can never understand?

 

 

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A different twist on the conversation is what separates the winners on Sunday from the rest of the pack. These guys are all great ball strikers albeit some guys can performs tricks like Bubba shaping the ball. But I think what separates them is the mental game. Watch the eyes or the motions of the pros when they're not doing well. Some are more overt than others like a Rahm but you can still pick up the nuances.

 

I think that translates to all levels of play - the toughest shot is between the ears. So finally back to your point what separates them is the mental game.

 

 

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Hey all,

 

Been doing some thinking/research, what does everyone think separates the scratch golfer/am player from the tour player? Is it all mental? Or is there just a certain level of physical talent they possess that we can never understand?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Perhaps you'd share your research with us.

 

I think it's a lot of factors including in random order...

 

Natural and found ability

years or even a life-time of golf and competitive playing

Hard work

Great fitting equipment

Drive

Confidence

Money

Practice

Training

Mental

Youth

Perfect playing surfaces

Snappy clothing

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Perhaps you'd share your research with us.

 

I think it's a lot of factors including in random order...

 

Natural and found ability

years or even a life-time of golf and competitive playing

Hard work

Great fitting equipment

Drive

Confidence

Money

Practice

Training

Mental

Youth

Perfect playing surfaces

Snappy clothing

.... So youre saying snappy clothing is what stands between me now and me on Tour? 🤣

 

I agree with a lot of what you say though. These guys practice 40+ hours a week because it IS their job. They also have top notch help for their noggin, swing, exercise routine, diet, etc.

 

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I like the talk about the mental game. gaussman1 made a good point that he and several scratch golfers can think their way around the golf course beautifully. I know plenty of low handicappers that can really dissect a course.

 

When I think of the mental game, I was referring to being able to deal with pressure. By the time you get out on tour, you've been tested at so many different levels. And still you see guys wilt out there. I'm good at what I do, and I still get a little nervous pitching to a new client or kicking off a big project. And I've been doing this for 20 years. I can't imagine playing golf for my livelihood. I'd throw up before every round.

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3 Wood (13.5*) - :titleist-small: 980F 
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3 Hybrid (19*) - :taylormade-small: RBZ
4i - PW - :wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged - Recoil 760 ( S )
52* - :cleveland-small: CBX
58* - :cleveland-small: CBX Full Face 2
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Bag - :1590477705_SunMountain: 2.5 (Blue)
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Distance

 

Tons of research says it's distance in every category. And it's not even close.

 

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Distance makes a really big difference.  Zach Johnson was mentioned earlier as being a short hitter on the PGA tour.  If he played in my group everyone would be amazed how far his drives would go.  There is no way you can play the 7,000 plus yard courses without hitting it reasonably far.  

 

The other thing is hard work over years and years, mental strength and talent.  They have so many more reps than the average player,  can perform under pressure,  and have crazy hand eye coordination.  

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You know, I had to think about this one a bit.  I think it's a combination of everything.  You need distance and a short game now a days to play the courses on the PGA tour; mental toughness to make it through the myriad of rounds you need to play to get to and compete at the high level, talent - the ability to take all the attributes previously mentioned and mold them into a cohesive approach to the game.  As others have said, there are guys that are plenty long out there, there are guys with phenomenal short games too that don't make the tour .

 

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I think distance is key, mental toughness can grind you out pars and some birdies but if youre plunking it out there 260 max youre gonna have struggles going low.

But to everyone elses point, short game and mental toughness i feel gives players the ability to grind out the tough pars and make the unexpected birdies. Guys like bubba can make birdies from the trees. Anyway, just my two cents.

 

 

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Mental game, and practice/preparation. I know plenty of guys that given the opportunity to practice and prepare without having to worry about family life could make a go of it. Distance may be an issue but it's not always the case. Repetition at the course, on the range, with a coach, working hard at the game. That's how you improve. Natural ability can take you to a point, but you have to put it in the time, and most scratch/ am players don't have the amount of time required.

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I will speak for myself, by the time I was 18 I knew that no amount of effort on a golf course would get me onto even a low level college team much less a pro. I played more than enough golf in that time period to know what I had then and even though I have taken many years off what I have now is not much different.

 

Dig through the net and look at the used club faces of professionals. I first noticed this with my golf coach in high school, you may find that their club has a shinny spot where they have worn the Crome off from hitting the ball in the same place every time. My golf coach could do that, but he had a very low swing speed and even then to my understanding was just a tad off being a pro. Part of that being distance related.

 

A professional has to have that kind of coordination with a swing speed of more than 100 mph in most cases. Today I found photos of Tiger Woods old irons and they have that worn spot right at the middle bottom of the club face.

 

Like any professional athlete in any sport, a touring pro has that combination of eye hand coordination, strength, mental atributes, and hard work that blend to make them an elite athlete in their sport. It is not enough to have one of the needed atributes, for example most of us can devote our spare time to the game. I am certain that there are many on this site who have the mental skills to be a pro but the physical is not there. However without the requisite talent level we will only rise to the best of our natural ability. For the majority of us that will fall no where near the ability of a professional athlete.

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Probably distance. You can teach a long hitter how to hit it straight. You can't teach a short hitter how to hit it long.

 

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I played with a +4 on our champion course. Par 72 and honestly a 68 for him. We were playing in the Montana Open and he came up to me and said he just hit a sand wedge in for a double eagle on a 525 par five. He's a great player but the real difference I think is I watched David Duval practice for the tournament in Las Vegas and he was hitting a sand wedge to a small green and I swear you could put a hat over the 15-20 shots he hit and couldn't make the cut. I'm a great fan of his and followed him around and he from my prospective only missed one shot. These guys are good.

 

 

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Every aspect of the game is better. Lag putts from 100 feet are bad if they finish outside 3 feet. Par 4s under 400 yards are gimme birdies where a par is a stroke lost to the field. Same with any par 5. Driving AVERAGE of 290 is low and you'd better be hitting 80%+ fairways at that length. If you aren't putting pitches to kick in distance, you're struggling. This also applies to your off days, when your swing doesn't feel right and the weather is lousy.

 

Watch Mark Crossfield's matches against European Tour pros. He struggles to keep up with them goofing around.

 

 

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Distance

 

Tons of research says it's distance in every category. And it's not even close.

 

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People are only fooling themselves if they don't think it starts here. Without it you have no chance. Every stat out there starts with distance including a fairly recent article in one of the golf publications about the difference between a touring pro and scratch golfer.

 

Take Gausman's scenario. That perfectly described where I was at when my handicap hopped between a 1-2. Except that my average drive was closer to 240. (GPS was fairly new and I kept track).

 

But the courses that I played on where nothing like a course for a tour event. That was another point to the article - the average scratch AM plays a course with a rating around 71. The average tour course the way that it's set up is north of 76.

 

If there were handicaps assigned the difference between a scratch AM and a touring pro is around 9 strokes per round. The largest chunk of that 9 is driving and the largest chunk of that is distance. But of course touring pros are better pretty much across the board.

 

Several guys from the Canadian Tour come to my club in the late winter/early spring. I practice with them occasionally. Some of them have the length. I was with one a couple of winters ago who was hitting shot after shot with a baby fade with driver across the range about 285 yards at sea level. Suddenly he hit one that bent the slightest bit left. I happened to see it. He told me that was the one that prevents him from moving up to the next level.

 

Also, these guys have an app that compares facets of their game to the average guy on tour. I would suggest you get ahold of an App like that. It would show you where you are at and what to work on.

 

Plaid mentioned several things that are irreplaceable. They have tons of talent, tournament experience and incredible drive.

 

 

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Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Course management is an often over looked skill. It definitely is one of the most important things on the mental side of the game. Knowing when to go for it and when the lay up is just the start. It's almost like chess you have to be thinking of your next shot and trying to give yourself the best opportunity possible with the least amount of risk.

 

On the physical side its all touch for the most part. I had a course pro ask me once what I thought separates a 12 handicapper from an 8. I thought it was putting. He didn't disagree but he said the biggest thing he saw was the amount of greens hit in regulation. He said the after that it's all distance control. A 9 handicapper has no problem hitting his irons accurate to thier full distance, but a lower handicapper can hit thier irons +/- 5 yards or so on demand. And I agree with this, take the Masters for example. How many times did the announcers talk about that course testing the players distance control.

 

Now you can't rule out overall distance either. I don't think it is as important as some, but there is a definite advantage to the person that is hitting 8 iron into the green over the guy the is hitting 5 iron.

 

So what can the average am do to improve their game? I actually got to ask a retired PGA pro this. Practice smart, always have a target picked out on the range. Practice with a purpose too. Did you miss a few greens from 120 out then work on that. Also spend time putting. Work on 30 foot putts and 3 foot putts. Your goal at the 30 foot length is to leave the ball inside a 3 foot radius. Your goal at the 3 foot length is to make 10 out of 10.

 

He also added that a lot of people spend the wrong amount of time on practicing things. People will beat drives and 7 irons all day, then spend 10 minutes chipping and putting. Try to distribute your practice time equal to the time it would be used on the course. How many times did you hit driver and 7 iron in your last round verses how many times you chipped and putted.

 

Sorry for the long winded post. This is a topic I've have researched a lot and wanted to share what I had found with all of you. Please if you have any questions feel free to ask me. I probably don't have the answer but someone here probably does.

 

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I played in a couple qualifiers for PGA events (Houston Open) and got paired with guys that were fighting for their tour card. All had won on the tour at some point in their career but were borderline PGA/Web.com when I played with them. 

 

Here's what I noticed that separated them (the pro) from me (a scratch amateur)...

 

150 and in: Distance control in the 'scoring' zone was key. I watched a guy step off a yardage from 115yds...hit a 3/4 gap wedge...mark it off as he walked up to his ball and his ball mark on the green was 4" longer than his yardage. He tapped in for birdie but I was amazed at how dialed in he was with the short irons. 

 

Same pre-shot routine regardless of distance, weather, stroke, etc: It didn't matter if the guy had a 2 ft putt or a 215 yard approach shot, it was the exact. same. thing. Consistency is key. 

 

Putting: We don't spend enough time as amateurs on the putting green. And if we do, it's practicing stuff that won't make you better. These guys could read the greens and stroke (not hit) the putts they needed to make. It was unbelievable. And their missed putts didn't result in 5' second putts, they had 2' tap-ins. These guys all had some sort of training device to help make a consistent putting stroke on 3'-4' putts and then they went and found the most difficult putt on the putting green and practiced in that area. Practicing 10' putts with little break and little elevation change won't make you a better putter.  

 

Course Management: Placement off the tee was crucial. Tough to make birdie from the trees. It's the one thing I observed that I still use today: why take a driver off the tee when a hybrid or something similar will get you in play and still have a short iron into the green. Hybrids/Long irons off par 5s that weren't reachable in 2. Hybrids off par 4s under 410 yards. Fairway woods on just about any tee shot that didn't fit your game. I saw a guy shoot 66 and use his driver 3 times the entire round on a course that measured over 7200 yards from the tees we played. He wasn't overly long, just knew what distance he wanted to hit his approach into the green. 

 

Time/Financial backing: Being a pro isn't playing 18 and going home, it's spending the entire day out at the course. It also means you don't have time for a job that can supplement your golf expenses. You need folks to float you the money to pay for travel, entry fees, course expenses, equipment expenses, etc. The guys that have the proper monetary backing can afford the best swing instructors, the best practice facilities, the best equipment, etc. 

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