Mandatory fitting for review contest winners?

[revkev]

Really interesting thread.

 

I think there's no right answer to this question because of the factors mentioned in responses here.

 

The upfront bios are critical. I've used some MGS reviews to purchase in the past. I always looked for a review from a player whose swing characteristics were most similar to mine.

 

It's not going to help for me to read that Undershooter thinks the newest Mixuno Blade iron is the cats meow. Our swings are as far apart as the east is from the west. I respect his opinion and if I had a younger friend with a plus handicap I'd suggest that he read that review.

 

But Kenny or Foz - I'm a little longer than both but have similar swing characteristics. I've played with them and know there games. I could figure out if the product will work for me based on their review of it.

 

 

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[NCST8golf]

Really interesting thoughts here. You guys have planted me firmly on the fence on this one. Which, after reading all this, I think is the right place to be. GolfSpy Meyer and revkev - point well taken about the stage 1 bios. I do like the idea that members can pick and choose those reviews they feel may be most applicable to their own game - fitted clubs or not. I've also learned not to take for granted the fact that I have a number of trusted fitters within one hour of my home! Thanks for all the feedback!

 

 

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[HeathS16]

I love this post, I read every single response. I have had the amazing opportunity to review the Cleveland RTX-3s and I was fitted for them. I think wedges are something that reviewers SHOULD get fit for in some capacity. I was lucky to have a buddy who was certified to fit wedges including Cleveland. However, I play OTR irons that were designed with the majority of golfers in mind. They have been amazing. So IMO I think it depends on the type of club being reviewed. I find myself agreeing with the majority of responses here, not required but certainly encouraged!

Love this discussion, good post NCST!

 

 

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[goaliewales14]

Very interesting topic here!  I feel like you don't have to be professional fit to do a review.  When someone is doing a review I do think it's important to get it as close as possible to their current specs.  The main question people are going to ask is did the product perform better than what you have?  Why or why not?  

 

Think about feel of an iron.  The softer the shaft, the softer the feel.  My shafts are the X100's.  People have told me that my irons feel hard yet they are the Srixon Z545's that are forged.  Yet you give them the same iron in an S300 and they say wow this feels much better.

 

Plus people want to see data during these reviews.  I would imagine that if you have 2 completely different specs then people will say the performance is due to being properly fit rather than the product. 

 

I would imagine that one of the main reasons we have to state our current clubs when we sign up for a review is so that you won't have drastic difference in products.  I would also venture to guess that most of us within the forum take our game seriously enough that we've been fitted for our current clubs, or know enough to fit ourselves to what we need.

[josmi15]

If I may throw my 2 cents in here. I also agree that about 80% of people buy their clubs at a big box chain (Dicks, et al) So a proper fitting wouldn't be reasonable. My first three sets of irons weren't fitted and I hit those well enough.

 

It wasn't until I couldn't hit a softball anymore that I decided to not be just a weekend hack anyways.

 

So yeah, I think it's not necessary to be fitted

 

 

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[poprocksncoke]

I do believe it is a good thing to be fitted.  I used to do some fitting myself and I know what works and doesn't work for me for the most part.  Yes I will try some different things at times but usually just go back to what works.  However, I do not believe that it should be mandatory for reviewers to be fitted unless that's something they choose.  

[Kmercier]

I have always just played off the shelf. The cobra bio cell driver that i have, i have only made the initial adjustments to get the right fit for me. All of that was prior to me finding this site.

 

I don't think that it should be mandatory for anyone to get fit. But if it was me i would do everything i can now to make sure it is the best i can make it. Especially if it is going to be my gamer. Even if that is just for the testing period.

[Berg Ryman]

How about 2 cents more for the piggy bank? 

 

So, I've put my name into the hat for the last few testing opportunities thinking this question in my mind. When I worked for Dick's Sporting Goods, I always told my customers that they should consider being fit, whether with us and our decent tech, the Golf Galaxy next door with their Foresight monitors, or at Turning Stone Resort and Casino with their Flightscope and Doppler systems. I can count on maybe three hands the amount of people who agreed and took me up with my suggestions and that was in nearly 4 years. Bottom line is this, the common golfer isn't the type to taking fitting seriously, and that's important to consider.

 

However, it's clear to see that the people who are on the MGS forum are not likely this  'common golfer' archetype. We're ahead of the curve on new products and new tech, we're asking questions about shaft flex, lead weighting, face groove tech, shaft flexes, etc. Because of that, I personally feel a duty to do my damnest to give you guys what you want, which is the best possible job with the best possible fit for me. I know that may not be everyone's feeling on that front, but you guys expect a certain level of effort on these reviews and testing opportunities, and I should be willing to give it to you. That's why, even though the best fitting center for me is an hour away, I'll run out there and get fit for me if/when I get the call the test things.

 

It's out of courtesy to you guys and the opportunities we're given as members here and as Stud said in his earlier post, this is not a short term thing, this could very well be the club that could be in your bag the next 3, 5, maybe even 10 years. You owe it to yourself to make sure it works for you!

[cnosil]

So here's a question for those that support mandatory fitting. Do you think that a putter fitting should be mandatory for a putter test and what does that include? Should you be eliminated fro the test if there is t a model that fits you properly?

 

Lots of people think putter fitting is all about feel. What if I thought iron and driver fitting is all about feel? Is my going to a local store and hitting a club into a net and thinking it

Feels good enough of a fitting?

 

 

Sorry, turning sarcastic mode off

[GolfSpy MPR]

Another (slightly tongue-in-cheek) angle on this.

 

For me in particular, I'm 5'10", roughly 170lbs. I'm a 15 handicap. My swing speed fits neatly into the expectations for my age (late 30s).

 

And so I am the average American male golfer. As far as I'm concerned, the off-the-rack clubs are literally already built for someone exactly like me.

 

All of you guys who are big or small or who are really good or are very much not good or who swing really fast or really slow: I don't feel your pain.

 

[00sportsman]

Another (slightly tongue-in-cheek) angle on this.

 

For me in particular, I'm 5'10", roughly 170lbs. I'm a 15 handicap. My swing speed fits neatly into the expectations for my age (late 30s).

 

And so I am the average American male golfer. As far as I'm concerned, the off-the-rack clubs are literally already built for someone exactly like me.

 

All of you guys who are big or small or who are really good or are very much not good or who swing really fast or really slow: I don't feel your pain.

 

This is actually a pretty good point. I think there's more than a little truth to this. Standard lie, length, flex, etc. would imply it fitting the average golfer, wouldn't it?

 

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[cnosil]

This is actually a pretty good point. I think there's more than a little truth to this. Standard lie, length, flex, etc. would imply it fitting the average golfer, wouldn't it?

 

there is no “standard” flex, length, lie, or loft on irons. Standard specs vary between manufacturers and even between clubs made by the same manufacturer.

[revkev]

I went to the club over lunch and caught all three of our pros shooting the breeze. Told them what's up and engaged them in a conversation about shaft length.

 

None of these guys are my teacher, I saw him later but they are class A pros who have seen my swing and two of them have played at least a few holes with me.

 

Plus it's not as if they don't talk with the teaching pro. In fact none will comment on my swing without asking what Jim has me working on.

 

So they each said I should play 45” and since it's Ping have no trouble with the stock shaft. Our shop is a Titleist shop but all three of them said Ping has the best reputation in the business for using quality components.

 

So off to the range to hit a few balls. We have a mini tour player who works at the course to supplement his income and give himself a great place to practice. He and I frequently hit balls together. He's an equipment nerd. So I told him about my contest win. He games a G400 LST and he said, “Rev, be sure to get your shaft at no longer than 45”

 

Finally my teacher was finishing a lesson. So I talked to him, before I could finish he said, 45”, perfect length for you.

 

It was a fun afternoon.

 

BTW the three pros use 45, 45, 43.5 and the mini tour guy 46 in their driver. Only the mini tour guy has an after market shaft. They now know all about MGS. I think the one pro, Scott, may join. That would be cool. He's our number two teacher. Love the guy, he lives just down the street from me and we will sometimes have a beer together in front of the house. (Mine)

 

They were stunned that I had actually spoken to Guerin Rife - one of them ran out of the door, grabbed my putter and ran to the green with it.

 

“This kills our Scotty's” was all he could say.

 

 

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[00sportsman]

there is no “standard” flex, length, lie, or loft on irons. Standard specs vary between manufacturers and even between clubs made by the same manufacturer.

And I actually agree. But, if I went to any one of our local shops and asked for a specific club with standard specs, they'd grab one off the rack. Not one thats 2* upright, or with a +1/2 shaft. I agree that what those standards are changes between manufacturers and even between series of the same manufacturer, but I've seen standard used as a descriptor numerous times, particularly for length, and lie.

 

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[bens197]

Two things.

 

Should we rely upon someone's objective review if they aren't able to offer a fair assessment of what flex, lie or loft of clubs they would need? Is that person really the test subject who can really translate performance into an effective review where we could benefit?

 

 

Second..

 

+1” and 6* up? 🤦🏼‍♂️

 

 

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[perseveringgolfer]

what if the fitting was wrong?

 

Or you had your bad swing with you that day when fitted?

 

 

I'm all for the review based on what you are given or what you think fits best for you.

[revkev]

@sbenson - I think you may be missing the point that some are making. Most people do not get fit beyond shaft flex and sometimes not even for that. So actually a review of a perfectly fit club may be less beneficial for them. They are the overwhelming majority of golfers.

 

The OEM should determine the parameters of the test. They know how they will use the results, if they want fully fitted, by all means. Having done enough of these tests they normally want you to give your specs but don't allow upcharged items.

 

@perseveringgolfer - wrong fittings occur on occasion but not because a player's swing is bad that day. Your swing is your swing. You'd be amazed at how consistent swings are from day to day or flush hit to miss hit. He's tossingbtge miss hits out anyway. An experienced fitter can get you close to where you need to be very quickly. Then he tweaks.

 

After enough fittings you should have a sense of what works. My one poor fitting came from a combo of the Mizuno shaft optimizer and a stubborn fitter. Neither took into account the fact that I prefer a lighter overall weight to me club and the playability of graphite in my irons. It led to two months of frustration. I know better now, if the fitter isn't as open to my input as I am to his suggestions, I'm out.

 

 

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[perseveringgolfer]

@sbenson - I think you may be missing the point that some are making. Most people do not get fit beyond shaft flex and sometimes not even for that. So actually a review of a perfectly fit club may be less beneficial for them. They are the overwhelming majority of golfers.

 

The OEM should determine the parameters of the test. They know how they will use the results, if they want fully fitted, by all means. Having done enough of these tests they normally want you to give your specs but don't allow upcharged items.

 

@perseveringgolfer - wrong fittings occur on occasion but not because a player's swing is bad that day. Your swing is your swing. You'd be amazed at how consistent swings are from day to day or flush hit to miss hit. He's tossingbtge miss hits out anyway. An experienced fitter can get you close to where you need to be very quickly. Then he tweaks.

 

After enough fittings you should have a sense of what works. My one poor fitting came from a combo of the Mizuno shaft optimizer and a stubborn fitter. Neither took into account the fact that I prefer a lighter overall weight to me club and the playability of graphite in my irons. It led to two months of frustration. I know better now, if the fitter isn't as open to my input as I am to his suggestions, I'm out.

 

 

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more occasions than you think, I have had many 'poor' fittings and I know a plethora of people with similar stories- the T'interweb forums are full of them. Thats why I think they really arent neccessary for a MGS prize/award.

 

P.S The Mizuno shaft optimizer doesn't take anything into account except facts, then makes 3 closest shaft recommendations based on these facts. A stubborn fitter is one of these things, he's the expert and should only tweak or advise based on the numbers and feel once the numbers are optimized. Fortunately my most recent fitter listened to what I want and feel and not what he thinks I should play even if I protest its too heavy/boardy etc

[bens197]

@sbenson - I think you may be missing the point that some are making. Most people do not get fit beyond shaft flex and sometimes not even for that. So actually a review of a perfectly fit club may be less beneficial for them. They are the overwhelming majority of golfers.

 

The OEM should determine the parameters of the test. They know how they will use the results, if they want fully fitted, by all means. Having done enough of these tests they normally want you to give your specs but don't allow upcharged items.

 

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I could have explained it better. What I was saying in simplest terms was how could we benefit from someone's take if they did not have a basic grasp of what worked for them. A fitting will ALWAYS benefit someone. I was certified at PING as a club fitter so I get the comprehensive swing analysis and dynamic fitting science. All I was saying was for us to benefit from the process, there should be a minimum standard or basis of club knowledge for that person in turn, to explain to the forum how that club or clubs work and why.

 

Is that a little less blurry?

[revkev]

I could have explained it better. What I was saying in simplest terms was how could we benefit from someone's take if they did not have a basic grasp of what worked for them. A fitting will ALWAYS benefit someone. I was certified at PING as a club fitter so I get the comprehensive swing analysis and dynamic fitting science. All I was saying was for us to benefit from the process, there should be a minimum standard or basis of club knowledge for that person in turn, to explain to the forum how that club or clubs work and why.

 

Is that a little less blurry?

Got it - we have a template that we follow which imposes that standard. For any of our reviews you know a bit about the tester, his capabilities, what he was playing, his specs, why he chose the equipment he did, the specs he chose or was fit for and how it performed.

 

So you will certainly get what you're looking for.

 

And we are in agreement on those standards. For a review to matter for me I need to know that the reviewer has a similar game to mine or the capability of describing how the club would work for a game like mine.

 

 

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[bens197]

Got it - we have a template that we follow which imposes that standard. For any of our reviews you know a bit about the tester, his capabilities, what he was playing, his specs, why he chose the equipment he did, the specs he chose or was fit for and how it performed.

 

So you will certainly get what you're looking for.

 

And we are in agreement on those standards. For a review to matter for me I need to know that the reviewer has a similar game to mine or the capability of describing how the club would work for a game like mine.

 

 

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Well said. I've been a fan of the reviews for the purpose of getting feedback on gear after that honeymoon period wears off. The queen B putters were a good example. Lots of good feedback after the initial love and adoration.

 

It's 30* here and ice rain so let's pray to the golf gods that sun makes it's way to the northeast soon!

 

 

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[Brjpool]

I'll throw my two cents in here. I did a putter review, and I had been previously fit for a putter and knew the specs that fit me best. I think most people who are very active on this forum probably have been fit and know what they need so this may not be as big an issue as we may assume.

 

Secondly while I enjoy the reviews allot the most I'm going to do with that is go talk to my pro and talk it over with him and then if it's a club I want and it fits my game I'll be fit for it prior to buying. In conclusion not I don't think it should be a requirement, some people may not have the money to do that and honestly they should have just as much chance as the rest of us and two while the reviews are good and I put more stock in the reviews than random ones off the internet, it's still only part of my buying decision.

 

 

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[GregB135]

I think it would depend on the game quality of the reviewer and what comparisons they are making to the club under review. A low handicap player with custom fit clubs should be able to recognize the difference in the club setup and highlight that in their review, i.e. 'compared to my current set at 1/2" long the distances were....'

For the high handicappers you would see the same thing in reverse, i.e. 'this off-the-rack game improvement club produced 'x' difference in my shots.

Taylor fitting the clubs to each tester eliminates too many of those comparison points.