New VS Old

[revkev]

This is fun

 

Of course putting is physical, the putter head must be delivered to the ball in a way to make it go on an intended line and an intended distance.

 

How conscious that process is? That's an entirely different matter.

 

According to Guerin Rife the pros hit the sweet spot of their putter 2/10 times. Miss the sweet spot, create a variable. That's pretty simple.

 

I will certainly concede that looks and feel (sound) of a putter matter and may significantly increase or decrease the chance of a player's success.

 

Putts are mishit as often as any either shot. I can grossly mishit a one foot putt and it will still go in the hole a high percentage of the time. No one may even know that I missed it that poorly. Same mid with driver and I'm hitting three, an iron and it's a bad word.

 

 

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[Kor.A.Door]

I like to find my own way. I always say I want to be fitted for my equipment, but I like to do it differently. I guess it's the lefty in me. For putting it has been a long road to find something that works consistently (by the way, I think I found it, crossing my fingers). I started with #9 style, liked the Looks and feel, couldn't make anything, too muchbtoe hand, switched and tried facebalanced, couldn't make much of anything, switched to plumbers neck slight arc, I started making some putts, but not consistent enough, so I tried different inserts, then no inserts, tried ping, Rife, Nike, all kinds of insert and non insert putters, what I found was that my line was good, so I have the correct type of putter, but I would always be short, always. Could never greet the speed and line right no matter what I tried. I have a putter from a friend, the Bettinardi, and I finally have a putter that allows me to make a good stroke on my line, but the ball comes of the face much hotter, and actually gets to, and past the hole. Sometimes you just have to search and find something. I probably could have gotten fitted and had this straightened out a couple years ago, but then I would miss the journey, and I would miss everything I learned about myself and my game along the way. So although the new tech can work, it may not work for you. Very few, maybe an Handful of guys I play golf with use the tech, and many of them are well above average in putting. Can it help, yes, will it help everyone, I don't think so.

[Matgyver]

I'm on the fence here. The new technology has made great gains in getting the ball rolling better with less hop and skip, but then again the technical advances seem to always be applied to old designs.

 

For me putting is all about feel and sound. I can putt lights out with the new spyders on a in-store green, but there's no feel and no sound and I wonder how well they will do on a real green for me.

 

I think the guys that use the old stuff do so for feel and for the fact they have just played them forever. I game an old anser, but I have put a ton of lead on it so I can get more consistency. Does the job, doesn't cost $400!

[russtopherb]

^^^ Agreed on the feel. One of my favorite putters is an older White Hot Rossie that I picked up for $20. The weighting and feel are perfect. I have a newer Cleveland Huntington Beach that plays great as well, but when my number of putts per round creeps up, I go back to the Odyssey. 

[Cbk57]

Feel is the sensation we are used to when the club meets the ball. For myself anyway feel comes with practice and adaptation to feel occurs with practice. All putters are going to have feel and I will learn to feel the stroke. It matters but only as an adaptation to using any given club. I suppose you could strip all feel out through a grip that totally isolates the vibrations moving from the club up the shaft, but otherwise all putters are going to provide a sensation that will give a sense of feel.

 

I tried out an Evnroll ER2 recently and I thought the “feel” was a lot like my current putter. The only reason I did not buy it is that I had to send too much money to my favorite uncle and some of his local relatives in mid April.

 

To expand on what I said above, my current putter is a slotline inertial. I have tried a number of putters lately to get an idea of what I like and what “feel” means to me. Within the bounds of putters from reputable brands, I don't see enough difference in feel that is going to matter whether I buy a new putter or not. No putter that I have tried had such a great “feel” that I thought I would make more puts. Instead I need more practice, and work on technique. The more time I spend on the practice green the more I get a “feel” for how far the ball will roll with a given stroke. My old putter serves that purpose just fine. I can't personally prove that the Evnroll putters are a better choice than what I have now, but based upon better results for a significant number of people under reasonably objective circumstances I believe that an Evnroll would give me the best chance of putting better of anything on the market.

 

I do not have the time or inclination to test every possible putter to pick the perfect one. For me practice is more important than the precise tool. I can learn to use the tool.

[cnosil]

Feel is the sensation we are used to when the club meets the ball. For myself anyway feel comes with practice and adaptation to feel occurs with practice. All putters are going to have feel and I will learn to feel the stroke. It matters but only as an adaptation to using any given club. I suppose you could strip all feel out through a grip that totally isolates the vibrations moving from the club up the shaft, but otherwise all putters are going to provide a sensation that will give a sense of feel.

 

I tried out an Evnroll ER2 recently and I thought the “feel” was a lot like my current putter. The only reason I did not buy it is that I had to send too much money to my favorite uncle and some of his local relatives in mid April.

Feel can be more than the feel/sound of the club hitting the ball. You also allude to the fact that Feel is also what you experience as you swing the club. Mechanics teach/ingrain the feel that the body needs to reproduce to hit the ball a certain distance. The sound aspect is some of the feedback we use to determine if the body is doing the right thing.

[thegolfclubdoc]

I think for me, I continue to use my putter because it is what I'm used to and I feel comfortable with it. That's probably why using anything else doesn't appeal to me, because it's all about look and feel. Putting is the best, most consistent part of my game. So changing putters doesn't make sense to me. And because my putter won't wear out like irons or a driver, I will most likely have my putter until I leave this earth.

 

 

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[thegolfclubdoc]

Love this putter.

 

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[Cbk57]

I got my slightly used Evnroll ER2 today, putter head feels slightly heavier than my old putter, the “feel” of the two to me was remarkably similar to my old slotline inertial. I was able to practice with it for about twenty minutes, I felt that I was able to immediately get the feeling I needed for short puts. I tried a few lag puts but right now am mostly working on 4 feet and in.

 

Does it make me better than my old one? I am not sure, I think that it is more consistent in the way the ball leaves the putter. It certainly did not cause any miracles. I like it though.

[Rekklss]

I was fit & game an ER2. Went from (app.) 38+ putts a round on average ... just shot my 1st round in the 70's ... a 79. 32 putts, (1) 3 putt & (5) 1 putts. The only change I made to my ER2 was a lighter grip. Distance is now dialed in. Works for me. Best $350 I ever spent. Just wish the head was black or grey.

 

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[Thin2win]

I can add my two cents to this conversation, but I think most of it had been said.

 

The face tech in an evnroll helps you on putts that you miss the center face on. That's basically it. If you have a putter that you hit dead center every time, an evnroll will do nothing for you.

 

But the reason most of us play a 460cc driver and cavity back irons is that we don't hit dead center every time. Choosing to play something other than a tech face putter is about the same as choosing to play blades and a persimmon wood driver.

 

I don't think my Er2 had helped my putting inside 5' one bit. But outside that and especially out at the 25' range where I am taking a good length poke at the ball, it has made a huge difference. Those longer putts that require a bigger swing were the ones that I'd miss center on, and the distance loss would be punishing.

 

Having a 30' putt that you toe hit by 1/2 inch and coming up 10' short sucks. For me, an evnroll turns that into being 2' short. Not three putting is what an evnroll does. (I say evnroll, but their are other face tech companies).

 

So, if you have a putter that you strike pure. stick with it. But if you miss hit a putt and don't want help... Please tell me how that wood driver and forged blade set is the best looking and best feeling set you have ever hit. You won't be wrong, but you won't be shooting your best scores.

 

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[kingcscott]

I have an old Odyssey 9 white Hot customized with black shaft and Salty grip. I did love it, really did.

I listened to Adam's rant about putter tech and researched, searched and found an EvnRoll ER2 and bought it. It is really a departure. Seems to roll itself and once I became adjusted to the weight has been a great addition to my game. It's not magic, not forged by the gods, but it is better from all distances.

I am skeptical about tech most of the time. This time it has worked for me. It really has helped me putt better.

 

 

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[cecil_nunchuck]

I was just about chat about a similar topic. I have had my first gen 2-ball putter for years and have never really felt the need to change. Alas the lure of new equipment always comes around. I have wanted a Scotty for as long as I can remember but now that I am contemplating buying one I don't know if I should.

 

I know golf spy have putter reviews out but I would've liked to see a review on the latest putters compared to their older models.

 

Would I be better hunting the net for cheaper, older putters? Putting is a mental game and I know that you should be able to putt with anything but comfort over the is key, that is probably why I've never changed. Don't want to fork out hundreds of pounds on something ill stick in a bag in the garage after a month of frustration. 

 

As for the different inserts, a guy I play with adds weight to his putter to play on winter greens to try and keep his putting consistent throughout the winter months when the greens are slower. Don't know if you could alter the weight of your putter to suit different green types. Would take a lot of tinkering to get the weights correct for each condition though.

 

It normally comes back to the old saying, if it aint broke, don't fix it. 

[Rekklss]

Ok. Love my forged blades.

Hit'em in the center & work'em both ways. ;8)

 

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[thegolfclubdoc]

I have been trying blades for the last month. I have been able to hit them well. But, I just don't see how they are better performance wise or feel. But, I do like the way forged blades look.

Ok. Love my forged blades.

Hit'em in the center & work'em both ways. ;8)

 

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[cnosil]

I believe making putts (like most golf shots), is 99% technique.The remaining 1% is about playing a putter with reasonable specifications (length-weight-lie-loft). I do not believe putter face technology, such as grooves or milling or inserts, is relevant to produce consistently good putting.

So what makes for good technique ?

I have observed many different putting styles and techniques, all of them can be effective,  including forward ball position, rear ball position, center ball position, upright body posture, crouched body posture, open, square, or closed stance, traditional, left-hand-low, claw grips etc...

The one and only common trait I have observed from every single consistently good putting player is that the player's head remains still-stable from the address position until after impact with the ball.

 

So the secret to putting is keeping your head still?  Your putting styles are pretty much all setup positions and I agree all of them can be effective.  But how does keeping your head still impact starting the ball on intended line, putter path, or speed control?  How have you verified that every reasonably fit putter will work for every possible setup position.  I assume you have also proven that putter weight and toe hang have no impact on the stroke at all?  Is this opinion just based on casual observation, technical analysis, or putting instruction?  

 

I think you are somewhat correct, that technique can overcome technology,  but I think your percentages are off.  I would say that solid technique which include more that just stance but how you power your stroke would make the ratio more like 80/20.  And inconsistent putting strokes cannot be fixed by equipment, but equipment can help fine tune the impact of the choices you make on how to putt. 

[cnosil]

I never wrote that maintaining a stable head guaranteed a player good consistent putting.

I did write that I've observed consistently good putting players use a wide range of techniques, but one factor they've all had in common was maintaining a steady/stable head from address through impact with the ball.

 

Not directly or a guarantee,  but you indicated:

 

I believe making putts (like most golf shots), is 99% technique.

So what makes for good technique ?

The one and only common trait I have observed from every single consistently good putting player is that the player's head remains still-stable from the address position until after impact with the ball.

 

You eliminated grip and setup from technique, just curious what else comprises technique?  

 

As for keeping their head still that isn't a 100% certainty,  I would say Loren Roberts didn't keep his head still during the stroke.  Always exceptions.    

[kingcscott]

If you watch the slow motion of Mr Roberts you will see his head moves all over the place. From what I see

[HardcoreLooper]

Love this putter. 20180502_221731.jpeg

 

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I played that in high school! Well, until my buddy missed a short putt in a match and cost us $50. I slammed it on the ground and the shaft snapped. And the magic was gone.

 

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[palvord]

With everything that is available today with technology in the putter as well as for putter fitting, you would be doing your game a disservice to not explore everything possible.

 

Marrying the data results with your “feel” matters to helping get the most out of your game.

 

I have no idea if the new technology makes more of a difference or not, but I can't close myself off to the possibility that it can help my game.

 

 

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