Kor.A.Door Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 Seriously, the rules of golf are absolutely out of touch with Anything remotely considered fair. Kelly Kraft at the RBG Heritage missed the cut today because after striking his tee shot on the par 3 13 th hole, he hit a Bird. That's right a real live bird, and as his luck would have it, the ball fell out of the sky into the water hazard. Under the rules of Golf he has to pay the ball as it is, ie. Take the penalty stroke and play the next shot. I guess because the bird is a God made object it's sorry about your luck. If you remember a few months ago on a smaller tour event, a young golfer putted his ball and while it is still in motion a leaf hit the ball, under that rule, he must replay the shot with no penalty, he didn't know the rule and finished the hole and was subsequently DQ'd for a rules breech. Last I knew a leaf was also God made. Why in the world does one of these allow for a “redoâ€, and the other is “sorry†just bad luck. I say this is BS, and some of the rules of Golf a dumb, just dumb, and I would say that this is one of those rules. How is there 2 separate rules for essentially the same issue, something in nature hit the Ball while it was in motion and cannot be accounted for. Yet another stupid rule of golf. Lefties are always in their Right Mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullldog Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 One is "rub of the green" the other was on the green Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hckymeyer Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 He had 5 bogeys and a double. One could argue it wasn't the bird he hit but one of the other bogey's he took that kept him out of the weekend. But yes, I agree many of the rules of golf are dumb. The rules changes coming for 2019 are a solid step in the right direction though. As for those two scenario's you mentioned. I believe the difference is a living thing vs an inanimate object. Also not sure if on the green vs off the green makes a difference. Plants don't count as living things for golf. So if an Ant had crawled in the line of the putt in the 2nd scenario he would have had to play it as it lies. Because it was a leaf (something not able to move under it's own power) he was supposed to replay the shot. Driver: SLDR w/ Fujikura Ventus Black 3w: '16 M2 hl w/ Diamana D+ 82 5w: Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Yellow Hybrid: 22 deg. Launcher HB w/ HZRDUS Black Irons: 5i - gap Launcher CBX w/ Nippon Modus 3 125 Wedges: 54 CBX & 58 Zipcore w/ Nippon Modus 3 125 Putter: Red 7s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revkev Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 I agree The rules are far too complicated and at times counter intuitive. Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60 Aldila R flex - 42.25 inches SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft Ping G410 7, 9 wood Alta 65 R flex Srixon ZX5 MK II 5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex India 52,56 (60 pending) UST recoil 75's R flex Evon roll ER 5 32 inches It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDGolfHacker Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 Seriously, the rules of golf are absolutely out of touch with Anything remotely considered fair. Kelly Kraft at the RBG Heritage missed the cut today because after striking his tee shot on the par 3 13 th hole, he hit a Bird. That's right a real live bird, and as his luck would have it, the ball fell out of the sky into the water hazard. Under the rules of Golf he has to pay the ball as it is, ie. Take the penalty stroke and play the next shot. I guess because the bird is a God made object it's sorry about your luck. If you remember a few months ago on a smaller tour event, a young golfer putted his ball and while it is still in motion a leaf hit the ball, under that rule, he must replay the shot with no penalty, he didn't know the rule and finished the hole and was subsequently DQ'd for a rules breech. Last I knew a leaf was also God made. Why in the world does one of these allow for a “redoâ€, and the other is “sorry†just bad luck. I say this is BS, and some of the rules of Golf a dumb, just dumb, and I would say that this is one of those rules. How is there 2 separate rules for essentially the same issue, something in nature hit the Ball while it was in motion and cannot be accounted for. Yet another stupid rule of golf. Kelly craft didn't get a “birdie“ on that hole?? ðŸ˜ðŸ˜‚🤣. Some of the rules don't make sense. MDGolfHacker TSssWhat's In This Lefty's Bag? Driver: TSR2 11° Project X HZRDUS Black 4G 60g 5.5 Flex Fairway Woods: F8 3W Project X Even Flow Blue 75g shaft Fairway Woods: Hybrid: TSR2 18° Graphite Design Tour AD DI-85 Shaft Irons: 2021 T200's 4-GW AMT RED shafts Regular Flex Wedge: Tour Satin RTX 4 Wedges in 52° and 56° 2 Dot Putter: Gray Matter TDP 2.2 32.75" Bag: Three 5 Ball: PRO V1 / Z*Star RangeFinder: In search of new range finder Social Media: Facebook: MD Golfhacker Twitter: @mdgolfhacker Instagram: mdgolfhacker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ole gray Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 Stuff like this is why my senior group applies local rules over some of that stuff the USGA goes by. We don't make a living at golf and we want to have fun while playing. If you hit a bird and the ball drops in the water, drop you another ball and replay. Take the bird home and cook em for supper. Ping G430 Max Driver 10.5 Degree Titleist TSR1 4, 5, & 6 Hybrids Titleist T350 Irons 7 - W48 Cleveland CBX ZipCore 52 56 & 60 Degree Wedges LAB Mezz Max Broomstick Putter / TPT Shaft (Platinum @ 45/78) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfJunkie302 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 That's just plain funny! At least he walked away from the tournament with a good story to tell. Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk 2017 M1 460, Project X HZRDUS Black 6.0 JPX EZ 3 wood Fly-Z 4H MP-60, 3i-PW, True Temper Dynamic Gold S5 54° & 58°, True Temper Dynamic Gold California Monterey Pro V1x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG STU Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 Stuff like this is why my senior group applies local rules over some of that stuff the USGA goes by. We don't make a living at golf and we want to have fun while playing. If you hit a bird and the ball drops in the water, drop you another ball and replay. Take the bird home and cook em for supper. Exactly!! Golf is supposed to be fun Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56* Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perseveringgolfer Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 I thought a ball hitting a bird/animal etc was 'ball moved by outside agency' or 'ball deflected by outside agency' and you got the option to replay the shot........I need to check out the rules book but anyone know before I wade thru reams of gobbledegook? Driver Awaiting NEW Driver (after 10 yrs) 4 Wood Callaway Big Bertha Steelhead plus 4+ Callaway shaft in 'Firm' flex Hybrid Titleist 910H 19* Diamana ahina 'flower' shaft in 'S' Irons Mizuno MP18SC 4-PW N.S Pro Modus3 Tour 105 in 'S' Wedges Callaway Mack Daddy forged in black 50* and 54* KBS Tour in 'R' Putter 'YES' Tracy 11 C groove 34.5" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgDaddy Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 I thought a ball hitting a bird/animal etc was 'ball moved by outside agency' or 'ball deflected by outside agency' and you got the option to replay the shot........I need to check out the rules book but anyone know before I wade thru reams of gobbledegook? That makes sense, but I certainly don't know without looking it up either. Driver - Rogue ST Max Woods - Rogue ST Max 3, 5 & 7 Woods Irons - Rogue ST Max Wedges - Zipcore RTX 6 50° CBX2 54* & 58* Putter - Evnroll ER2 Rangefinder - NX-10 Slope Ball - Vice Pro Tour Drip Bag - Xtreme Cart 7.0 Bag Heather/Red/White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revkev Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 I thought a ball hitting a bird/animal etc was 'ball moved by outside agency' or 'ball deflected by outside agency' and you got the option to replay the shot........I need to check out the rules book but anyone know before I wade thru reams of gobbledegook? No, if the ball has come to rest and the animal moves it, it's an outside agency, then it's a freed drop. If the ball is moving it's tough luck Charlie, play it as it lies. I agree that this is stupid, really stupid. But it is a rule and must be properly applied in a tour event or for that matter any other event being governed by the rules of golf. It's exactly the type of rule that makes it difficult for many of us to follow the rules when playing a casual round or even less casual rounds. Make no mistake about it, there is bifurcation. It's created by the rule making bodies and their refusal to truly simplify and consider the rule of fair play. For example, ball goes in a hazzard, lost, OB, unplayable? Drop at the nearest possible point of relief no closer to the hole or anywhere on the agreed upon line of flight, one stroke penalty, play on. I guarantee that's how most people play. It's simple and it works. It's like monopoly, the rules say nothing about the free parking $500 rule but most people play it that way because it adds an additional element of fun. Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60 Aldila R flex - 42.25 inches SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft Ping G410 7, 9 wood Alta 65 R flex Srixon ZX5 MK II 5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex India 52,56 (60 pending) UST recoil 75's R flex Evon roll ER 5 32 inches It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bens197 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 Common sense is slowly creeping in. When younger generations assume the roles of enforcement we can hope they're more willing to accept change. Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy Titleist TSi3 Fujikura Speeder NX Blue 60X TaylorMade SIM2 3 wood Fujilkura Ventus Blue 7-X Titleist U505 2 Tensei 1K Black 85 X Titleist T100 4-P Nippon Modus 3 120X PING S159 50-S 55-H 59-T DG X100 Vokey SM8 50, SM9 54 & 60 Nippon Modus 3 120s L.A.B. MEZZ Max Broom Accra 47" 79.5* Srixon Z-Star XV Currently testing the 2024 PING S159 wedges… https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/63483-testers-announced-ping-s159-wedges/ Was testing, still loving the 2023 Titleist T100 Irons 4-P https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/60456-titleist-t-series-irons-2023-forum-review/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
excourse Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 Hopefully so. My two pet peeves about the rules are fairway divots and marking your ball on the green. The first are obviously GUR, and in the second case mark ONCE and then putt out. Nothing tics me off more then seeing someone mark their ball and line up for their 3rd or 4th putt. Sent from my SM-N950U using MyGolfSpy mobile app Wishon clubs, Odyssey CS stroke lab putter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big money Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 I agree The rules are far too complicated and at times counter intuitive. Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy agree also.The basic rules are adequate.These ‘unique' scenario rules are very questionable Keep it in the short stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG STU Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 No, if the ball has come to rest and the animal moves it, it's an outside agency, then it's a freed drop. If the ball is moving it's tough luck Charlie, play it as it lies. I agree that this is stupid, really stupid. But it is a rule and must be properly applied in a tour event or for that matter any other event being governed by the rules of golf. It's exactly the type of rule that makes it difficult for many of us to follow the rules when playing a casual round or even less casual rounds. Make no mistake about it, there is bifurcation. It's created by the rule making bodies and their refusal to truly simplify and consider the rule of fair play. For example, ball goes in a hazzard, lost, OB, unplayable? Drop at the nearest possible point of relief no closer to the hole or anywhere on the agreed upon line of flight, one stroke penalty, play on. I guarantee that's how most people play. It's simple and it works. It's like monopoly, the rules say nothing about the free parking $500 rule but most people play it that way because it adds an additional element of fun. Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy The hazard drop or OB drop ---- You are 110% correct on that being that is how most people play it. A lot of courses here to speed up play in tourist season will mark hazards and even OB as a lateral under "Local Rules" to speed up play. I can remember when playing some mini tour events here you would be told to pay close attention to your rules sheet and course markings. One Tour Director colorfully said "You guys that play this course regularry better pay close attention to the sheet we are playing real golf here not tourist golf" Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56* Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG STU Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 Hopefully so. My two pet peeves about the rules are fairway divots and marking your ball on the green. The first are obviously GUR, and in the second case mark ONCE and then putt out. Nothing tics me off more then seeing someone mark their ball and line up for their 3rd or 4th putt. Sent from my SM-N950U using MyGolfSpy mobile app Oh yeah we see it quite a lot here during Tourist golf season Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Speeder 565 R flex- 5W TM V-Steel Fubuki 60r--- 7W TM V-Steel UST Pro Force Gold 65R----- 9 W TM V Steel TM MAS stiff---- Irons 2015 TM TP CB Steel Fiber 95 R--- GW Callaway Mack Daddy 2 52* shaft unknown junk pile refugee. SW Callaway PM Grind 56* Modified sole grind--- KBS Tour Wedge-- LW Vokey 58* SM5 L grind--- Putter Ping B90I Broom Stick G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver & black Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 The rules of golf need a thorough going over, and some common sense applied. I know rules are rules, but there are some rules that are just silly... and not just in golf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaussman1 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 Hopefully so. My two pet peeves about the rules are fairway divots and marking your ball on the green. The first are obviously GUR, and in the second case mark ONCE and then putt out. Nothing tics me off more then seeing someone mark their ball and line up for their 3rd or 4th putt. Sent from my SM-N950U using MyGolfSpy mobile app I hear divots from a lot of guys, and I respectfully disagree that they should be a free drop. Life's not fair and we take the good with the bad, and I think hitting a good tee ball into a real garbage lie gives you an opportunity to test your mettle. A clean divot isn't that difficult to hit a shot out of and your playing partners always ohh and ahh a little when you just shrug your shoulders, go about your business, and pull off the shot. I've made more birdies out of divots than I can count largely because I relish the opportunity to really bear down. Most of the time I strike it better than a perfect lie out of the fairway because I stay with it so much better. Sometimes a little rub of the green is just what we need to appreciate the perfect lies. Rogue SZ 10.5 *NEW* Fujikura Pro Green 65 X Rogue 15 degree Evnflow Blue 6.5 Back in the Bag Z765 4-G Nippon Modus 120 Stiff 54 and 60 Amazing Grace Ass Kicker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeathS16 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 Kelly craft didn't get a “birdie“ on that hole?? 🤣. Some of the rules don't make sense. MDGolfHacker This low key got me laughing! Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy Driver: TSi3 Tester Check out the Review HERE 2-Iron- 699-U 5-Wood: Pro (18*) Irons : i210 4-PW Wedges: RTX-4 50* and 54* RTX-3 *58 Putter: Impact No. 3 Ball: MAXFLI TOUR Tracked by: Bag: BagBoy ZTF Stand Bag (REVIEW HERE) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kor.A.Door Posted April 15, 2018 Author Share Posted April 15, 2018 Sorry, but these incidents are far from being "essentially the same issue" as entirely different rules address them. And being "God made" has nothing to do with it either, as literally everything on the course (outside of the man-made objects (like tee markers, sprinkler heads, rakes, and flag pins) that you could hit and influence the flight of your ball are in fact "God made." ... So, using your logic, when Speith hit a tree limb on the last hole of the Master's week should he have been allowed to replay that shot because the tree was God made? While I will agree with you that many of the Rules Of Golf are dumb, and/or overly complicated - perhaps the 2019 Rules Updates will eliminate some of the confusion - it's still up to the individual player to know the rules, and understand how they apply. Because some rules are intended to aid you, and other rules are to explain how penalties are applied relative to your own situation. End of the day, as another poster mentioned, the expression "rub of the green" comes to mind. Golf is a game where we're often rewarded by a good bounce in which we shouldn't really be rewarded, along with the odd times when we're penalized for something in which we shouldn't be penalized. ... They all count the same. But as a wise old fella told me back when I was a young golfer, and complaining about one poor or unlucky shot that supposedly ruined a round, or in your example one shot among 143 that kept Kelly from making the cut - while you're busy nit-pickying one shot, I bet I can go back through your round and find all kinds of shots you mis-played or struck poorly that would make this whole conversation moot. Just like life, put on your bigboy pants and accept the bad with the good, because life's not fair. The rule book refers to the bird as God made. Lefties are always in their Right Mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kor.A.Door Posted April 15, 2018 Author Share Posted April 15, 2018 Sorry, but these incidents are far from being "essentially the same issue" as entirely different rules address them. And being "God made" has nothing to do with it either, as literally everything on the course (outside of the man-made objects (like tee markers, sprinkler heads, rakes, and flag pins) that you could hit and influence the flight of your ball are in fact "God made." ... So, using your logic, when Speith hit a tree limb on the last hole of the Master's week should he have been allowed to replay that shot because the tree was God made? While I will agree with you that many of the Rules Of Golf are dumb, and/or overly complicated - perhaps the 2019 Rules Updates will eliminate some of the confusion - it's still up to the individual player to know the rules, and understand how they apply. Because some rules are intended to aid you, and other rules are to explain how penalties are applied relative to your own situation. End of the day, as another poster mentioned, the expression "rub of the green" comes to mind. Golf is a game where we're often rewarded by a good bounce in which we shouldn't really be rewarded, along with the odd times when we're penalized for something in which we shouldn't be penalized. ... They all count the same. But as a wise old fella told me back when I was a young golfer, and complaining about one poor or unlucky shot that supposedly ruined a round, or in your example one shot among 143 that kept Kelly from making the cut - while you're busy nit-pickying one shot, I bet I can go back through your round and find all kinds of shots you mis-played or struck poorly that would make this whole conversation moot. Just like life, put on your bigboy pants and accept the bad with the good, because life's not fair. This is mostly to point out that the rules of Golf can be stupid. Since he missed the cut by 1 stroke, hitting the bird actually did cause him to miss the cut, were there shots that were in his control that he could have done differently, yes, but when you have no control or any idea that hitting a bird is going to happen it makes no sense in any way not to replay the stroke Lefties are always in their Right Mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny B Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 I hear divots from a lot of guys, and I respectfully disagree that they should be a free drop. Life's not fair and we take the good with the bad, and I think hitting a good tee ball into a real garbage lie gives you an opportunity to test your mettle. A clean divot isn't that difficult to hit a shot out of and your playing partners always ohh and ahh a little when you just shrug your shoulders, go about your business, and pull off the shot. I've made more birdies out of divots than I can count largely because I relish the opportunity to really bear down. Most of the time I strike it better than a perfect lie out of the fairway because I stay with it so much better. Sometimes a little rub of the green is just what we need to appreciate the perfect lies. My ball in a divot in the middle of the fairway is just bad luck; doesn't mean I like it even though I know it's the rub of the green. The pros play out of divots from previous days that grounds crew repairs before the next round; maybe they get in a divot from the current day but that's rare. Very few people repair divots at my muni, and some of them are deep and at a 45* angle to the green. I'd play out of a repaired divot like the pros see, but some lies in those divots are not playable for me, and I defy a pro advance the ball to the green. I have to take an unplayable lie penalty for hitting a straight ball in the fairway. Just another reason why the pro game is much easier than the game we play. “We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaussman1 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 My ball in a divot in the middle of the fairway is just bad luck; doesn't mean I like it even though I know it's the rub of the green. The pros play out of divots from previous days that grounds crew repairs before the next round; maybe they get in a divot from the current day but that's rare. Very few people repair divots at my muni, and some of them are deep and at a 45* angle to the green. I'd play out of a repaired divot like the pros see, but some lies in those divots are not playable for me, and I defy a pro advance the ball to the green. I have to take an unplayable lie penalty for hitting a straight ball in the fairway. Just another reason why the pro game is much easier than the game we play.That's a good point and you're right about the pros of course. I wasn't thinking of the muni course deep ditch digging. I'm fortunate to play mostly well kept tracks and forget about the courses I grew up on sometimes Rogue SZ 10.5 *NEW* Fujikura Pro Green 65 X Rogue 15 degree Evnflow Blue 6.5 Back in the Bag Z765 4-G Nippon Modus 120 Stiff 54 and 60 Amazing Grace Ass Kicker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveP043 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 For those who believe that the rules are excessively complicated, I suggest you read the original 13 rules. Try to imagine playing under those rules. They were really simple, and apparently that's what most of us want. No free drops, no marking the ball on the green, no cleaning the ball. Every rule we have came as a response to some situation that occurred. I like simplifying the rules, and hope it continues, but its pretty tough to write rules that cover all of the necessary issues. I challenge anyone to write a workable rule allowing relief from divot holes. Include a definition of a divot hole. Be sure that it also defines when the hole has healed enough that you no longer get relief. And find some way of stopping short of allowing preferred lies anywhere in the fairway Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X T22 54 and 58 wedges 7-wood 5-wood B60 G5i putter Right handed Reston, Virginia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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