Can Golf Manufacturers Grow The Game?

[deejaid]

Recently, there has been much talk about the decline in participation and popularity of the game of golf. Articles have been written about golf courses being closed down and fewer and fewer people taking up the game. Many have said it takes too long, is too hard to learn, and it is too expensive.

 

I've heard the same kind of dire warnings of doom and gloom about the guitar industry. Rock is dead. Guitar music is out. It's too hard to learn to play, etc. Gibson guitars, which were once the most sought after guitar a young player yearned for is now facing bankruptcy.

 

Now, obviously there are millions of sets of used golf clubs in the world and probably the same amount of guitars. If every golf club manufacturer and guitar builder closed up shop tomorrow, the game of golf and the state of popular music would be just fine, we the consumer have the physical tools available to us. We don't need new “X, Y, and Z”. What we need are the skills to use X, Y and Z.

 

While Gibson Guitars is facing an uncertain future, Fender Musical Instruments is actually growing. How can a guitar company be growing if guitar music is dying? The are embracing the beginner, the girls and women and marketing to them. Fender is making more acoustic guitars to appeal to the female singer/songwriter, not the rock star. They have also launched Fender Play, a subscription service of online lessons to teach beginners and intermediate players how to use their products. Meanwhile, Gibson releases its 4,236,798 different version of a Les Paul and expect people to buy it.

 

Now, it seems to me the golf industry could learn a few things from Fender. Instead of trying to sell us the same damn thing every six months, the 4,236,798 version of the same 460cc driver or game improvement iron, why don't they try to help people actually learn the game? Why do the websites of Callaway, Ping, and TaylorMade all talk of the great features of their product, yet have no instructional videos to help consumers maximize their abilities and get the most out of this technology?

 

 

We've all heard a lot of chatter about the state of the game and the problems the industry is having, yet companies whose bottom line depend on new golfers coming into the sport seem content to tweak a previous product and sell to an aging golf population.

 

 

I'm sure many people will say, “New players need to find a good Pro” but many new players don't have the money for private lessons and feel self-conscious when just starting out.

 

 

Can the golf equipment industry change their business model and give players the tools AND the skills needed to grow the game?

 

 

Just some thoughts on golf on a Sunday afternoon.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[deejaid]

No offense taken. Just trying to stimulate some discussion that maybe is more thought provoking than standard gear talk. Also the parallels are why I posted here on the 19th hole and not in the equipment section.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[null]

The lack of focus by major oems on juniors boggles the mind. Cobra is the only one that seems to have anything for juniors

[tony@CIC]

Recently, there has been much talk about the decline in participation and popularity of the game of golf. Articles have been written about golf courses being closed down and fewer and fewer people taking up the game. Many have said it takes too long, is too hard to learn, and it is too expensive.

 

I've heard the same kind of dire warnings of doom and gloom about the guitar industry. Rock is dead. Guitar music is out. It's too hard to learn to play, etc. Gibson guitars, which were once the most sought after guitar a young player yearned for is now facing bankruptcy.

 

Now, obviously there are millions of sets of used golf clubs in the world and probably the same amount of guitars. If every golf club manufacturer and guitar builder closed up shop tomorrow, the game of golf and the state of popular music would be just fine, we the consumer have the physical tools available to us. We don't need new “X, Y, and Z”. What we need are the skills to use X, Y and Z.

 

While Gibson Guitars is facing an uncertain future, Fender Musical Instruments is actually growing. How can a guitar company be growing if guitar music is dying? The are embracing the beginner, the girls and women and marketing to them. Fender is making more acoustic guitars to appeal to the female singer/songwriter, not the rock star. They have also launched Fender Play, a subscription service of online lessons to teach beginners and intermediate players how to use their products. Meanwhile, Gibson releases its 4,236,798 different version of a Les Paul and expect people to buy it.

 

Now, it seems to me the golf industry could learn a few things from Fender. Instead of trying to sell us the same damn thing every six months, the 4,236,798 version of the same 460cc driver or game improvement iron, why don't they try to help people actually learn the game? Why do the websites of Callaway, Ping, and TaylorMade all talk of the great features of their product, yet have no instructional videos to help consumers maximize their abilities and get the most out of this technology?

 

 

We've all heard a lot of chatter about the state of the game and the problems the industry is having, yet companies whose bottom line depend on new golfers coming into the sport seem content to tweak a previous product and sell to an aging golf population.

 

 

I'm sure many people will say, “New players need to find a good Pro” but many new players don't have the money for private lessons and feel self-conscious when just starting out.

 

 

Can the golf equipment industry change their business model and give players the tools AND the skills needed to grow the game?

 

 

Just some thoughts on golf on a Sunday afternoon.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

While there may be some parallels between the two, there are numerous differences that preclude a comparison of the two. As starters: time (to practice and play) cost (equipment being just a part of it) and immediacy. On the latter you can pick up a guitar in your house and practice for an hour.

 

Would it be beneficial for the golf equipment manufacturers to fund a marketing program to attract more people (including women and children) of course it would. But you're still left with the three issues I mentioned. FYI there is a great program to engage youngsters in the game - it's called 1st tee.

 

Funding marketing vs. producing new drivers or GI irons? Hmm would you be interested in buying a brand new 2010 Buick in 2018? Don't think GM or any other car manufacturer would be in business very long. Innovation is key to sustainability.

 

The reality is there are many competing interests especially with parents that have kids in school not to mention the cost of raising kids - which I can attest to. That's why I see mostly older players on courses

 

As to engaging in golf - you don't need the latest equipment, specific golfing attire, private club membership or a low handicap to enjoy the game.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

[MaxEntropy]

I think you have a very valid point and I appreciate the parallel to another industry with a player attempting to change with the times. I view RP58's response as something similar to what you might hear if you brought up such "lunacy" in the board room of a club manufacturer. No offense to him, of course, it's just what my mind heard while reading his response.

 

Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk

[Shankster]

Ping has a few sets for kids.

 

I will say I won't bring my kids to the courses here. Bunch of A Holes that I don't want them around, that or beer cans falling out of the cart...

 

Not sure if equipment can solve the problem. A culture change needs to happen. Watching the Spanish Open today really opened my eyes. Not a single fan was double fisting Bud Light, or Any sort of alcohol for that matter.

 

They were polite, cheered everyone, didn't say anything stupid. And embraced their countrymen.

 

There is a bigger problem with professional sports here than I thought.

[deejaid]

Funding marketing vs. producing new drivers or GI irons? Hmm would you be interested in buying a brand new 2010 Buick in 2018? Don't think GM or any other car manufacturer would be in business very long. Innovation is key to sustainability.

 

Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

 

 

I must disagree here. Paying customers are the key to sustainability. Without new customers replacing those dying off, who will they sell to?

 

We've seen in testing and results right here on this very forum that Major OEM drivers perform nearly identically to their own models from 5 years ago. I don't think OEMs are innovating in so much as their marketing department is coming up with new buzz words and pseudo-tech.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[deejaid]

Ping has a few sets for kids.

 

I will say I won't bring my kids to the courses here. Bunch of A Holes that I don't want them around, that or beer cans falling out of the cart...

 

Not sure if equipment can solve the problem. A culture change needs to happen. Watching the Spanish Open today really opened my eyes. Not a single fan was double fisting Bud Light, or Any sort of alcohol for that matter.

 

They were polite, cheered everyone, didn't say anything stupid. And embraced their countrymen.

 

There is a bigger problem with professional sports here than I thought.

I agree with you here. The game of golf has historically been a game for privileged, white men. The demographics lean heavily towards older whites males with certain disposable income, and OEMs market towards them.

 

I don't blame OEM's for directing their offerings towards these players (which is what much of the guitar industry has done) but as I read these reports about the game being in trouble, I see the equipment manufacturers just stick to the status quo; 6 month product cycles trying to separate their current customers from every last dime before they check out.

 

 

And disclaimer, I am an aging white male with some disposable income.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[revkev]

I will stay off the music parallel because I don't know enough - I actually know a lot about music, I was a music major in college and a professional musician, but since guitar is outside of my area of expertise I will pass.

 

On to golf, certainly OEMs are limited as to what they can do by the rules of golf in regards to innovation. I would agree with others that they need to figure out a way to attract new people to the game and also have those people buying their product at a profit.

 

I don't know the answer as to how. For now it seems as if they are stuck trying to market to a shrinking group.

 

Someone will break out. My money would be on Ping or Cobra because those company's have always been creative. We will see....

 

Interesting topic.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[deejaid]

Someone will break out. My money would be on Ping or Cobra because those company's have always been creative. We will see....

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

 

Could Ping create an interactive training app for Apple TV that utilizes their putter fitting cradle in way that it can hold an Apple TV controller, with its internal accelerometer; attach it to a club and allow full swings with a real club right in your living room?

 

Would that attract the screen-staring generation we are currently raising and get them into the sport?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Shankster]

I think indoor golf would help a lot. $1000 for a cheap sim is out of reach for most people I'd say.

 

I am really contemplating buying a SkyTrack and net for next winter.

 

Let's face it. Golf is overall more expensive than most sports to get started, plus greens fees...

[GolfSpy MPR]

Really thoughtful post.

 

The analogy between golf and guitar remains difficult. If I were interested in playing guitar, I could drop a few hundred dollars on a usable beginner instrument. At that point, the initial demand for investment for me is done. I can sit at home and play, watching instructional videos (as you allude to).

 

Golf, however, requires an ongoing investment of nontrivial amounts of money on range balls and greens fees. There are lots of video lessons, but in the main, a video lesson for golf isn't nearly so convenient as one for guitar, unless I have my video with me at the range.

 

So now, if I seriously want to not frustrate myself, I probably need to pay for some lessons, and those aren't cheap, either in money or personal dignity. I wouldn't underestimate the significance of the latter: if beginning guitar players had to learn in public, there would likely be fewer beginning guitar players.

 

I think your broader point stands: manufacturers have a real interest in increasing the number of both casual and especially avid golfers. This is in part why Callaway and TaylorMade have invested heavily in Top Golf and competitors. That's likely to be part of the answer.

 

I'm interested to see, as this thread continues, other parts of the answer.

 

Sent from my LG-G5 using the MyGolfSpy mobile app.

[GolfSpy MPR]

I think indoor golf would help a lot. $1000 for a cheap sim is out of reach for most people I'd say.

 

I am really contemplating buying a SkyTrack and net for next winter.

 

Let's face it. Golf is overall more expensive than most sports to get started, plus greens fees...

I think this is absolutely where things need to go. I have an OptiShot, which cost me about $250. A used SkyTrak is going to cost at least $1,400, and all the pricier simulators run on ongoing subscription models.

 

Once the tech drives the price for SkyTrak-level simulators to say, $500 or less, some kind of in home practice for all (especially beginners) becomes a legitimate possibility. Mix in Top Golf style target games: I think there's some market there, as there has been in some Asian countries in which most rounds are played on simulators.

 

Sent from my LG-G5 using the MyGolfSpy mobile app.

[Gg Owen]

OEMs surely can.And I believe they will over time.

[deejaid]

My guitar analogy was just meant to highlight two industries, golf and guitar, that are declining, mostly due to aging white males with disposable income dying off. I'm on both golf and guitar forums and many of the conversations could be interchangeable with each other.

 

While Gibson guitars laments the fact that guitar music is out of style so there are less people interested in taking up the instrument, Fender Guitars is making an effort to reach out to new demographics and are not just giving them the tools, but also the ability to use those tools with the knowledge needed.

 

Golf OEMs talk of declining sales and shrinking demographics, but they seem content to just maintain course. Will one of these golf equipment OEMs take a page from Fender Guitars and not just offer their hard goods (clubs) but also the knowledge to use them?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Shankster]

Well they could start by not making 9 different models. It gets confusing for beginners.

 

Blade

 

Players

 

GI

 

SGI

 

Probably still too many.

[GolfSpy MPR]

So let's throw this out: let's say Callaway (for instance) makes cuts to it's advertising and (maybe) R&D, and instead contacts PGA pros, with the offer that every Callaway purchase of (say) $500 or more comes with three free lessons. The pros would obviously have to take a discounted rate to make the math work, but they end up with a massive influx of new students, some of which will continue to buy full-price lessons.

 

Just spitballing.

 

Sent from my LG-G5 using the MyGolfSpy mobile app.

[Shankster]

If we are talking kids, sure. But bringing more adults... these courses here already get bound up with slow play, and I live in the middle of nowhere...

 

I really don't think there will be a problem with new people playing golf. There will be someone that connects with the masses (like Tiger) to come along again here shortly.

[MDGolfHacker]

The lack of focus by major oems on juniors boggles the mind. Cobra is the only one that seems to have anything for juniors

Ping too.

 

MDGolfHacker

[deejaid]

So let's throw this out: let's say Callaway (for instance) makes cuts to it's advertising and (maybe) R&D, and instead contacts PGA pros, with the offer that every Callaway purchase of (say) $500 or more comes with three free lessons. The pros would obviously have to take a discounted rate to make the math work, but they end up with a massive influx of new students, some of which will continue to buy full-price lessons.

 

Just spitballing.

 

Sent from my LG-G5 using the MyGolfSpy mobile app.

Maybe an online purchase gives you online lessons and if you pay a little more for a purchase at a course pro shop or retailer you get a short in-person lesson and access to further online lessons.

 

A $500 driver purchase could easily offset the cost of a 1/2 hour lesson with a pro that gives a the customer a few tips on how to hit that new driver better.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Kor.A.Door]

Short answer, yes, The OEM's could. The question is will they. Probably not, at least not soon. As long as they make a profit, they won't care about growing the game. They will continue to put out equipment and people will buy it, that's what they care about. Think about any business, if you make money, there's no reason to change, if you aren't making money, you will make some changes to your business model, or you go out of business. Golf OEM's are businesses and they are there to make money.

[null]

Short answer, yes, The OEM's could. The question is will they. Probably not, at least not soon. As long as they make a profit, they won't care about growing the game. They will continue to put out equipment and people will buy it, that's what they care about. Think about any business, if you make money, there's no reason to change, if you aren't making money, you will make some changes to your business model, or you go out of business. Golf OEM's are businesses and they are there to make money.

Why should they care about growing the game? Because growing the game means more customers to buy their stuff and if they can get a junior golfer hooked on their gear early the OEM could have a customer for life

[Kor.A.Door]

Why should they care about growing the game? Because growing the game means more customers to buy their stuff and if they can get a junior golfer hooked on their gear early the OEM could have a customer for life

That's a possibility not a guarantee. If a company is making money they are not going to care. Will it be in their best interest to try and grow the game, absolutely. If they wanted to grow the game, equipment that costs $30 to make, wouldnt cost $500 to purchase. It's about profit margin. The same way that every business runs.

[null]

That's a possibility not a guarantee. If a company is making money they are not going to care. Will it be in their best interest to try and grow the game, absolutely. If they wanted to grow the game, equipment that costs $30 to make, wouldnt cost $500 to purchase. It's about profit margin. The same way that every business runs.

Of course it's about profit margin, but it's also about revenue growth.

 

You can grow revenue by 1) growing your slice of the pie or 2) growing the entire pie.

[deejaid]

Thanks for the post RP58. I appreciate your response to the discussion. Much of what you said is true regarding the “Tiger Boom” and introducing new players to par 3pr pitch n putt courses.

 

But why not have OEMs take up teaching players as well using a combination of online and in-person lessons at time of purchase? You are not replacing golf instructors but actually giving them more business by sending a new player with their club to them for a short lesson subsidized by the OEM.

 

And yes there is tons of information online, but it is fragmented and of varying levels of quality, many times just plain wrong. A trusted source of online info and training on an OEM website could be a one stop shop for a player to purchase their equipment and get the best tips on its use.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Shankster]

The town I grew up in had a pitch and chip course. I loved it for sharpening my wedge skills, I think the longest hole was 80 yards. It's now a parking lot.

 

I actually have more fun with 200 and in golf. When my driver and fairway woods start going sideways so does my attitude. So I imagine the new to golf people feel similar.

 

I think that's why there are more and more short courses coming up.

 

Pinehurst

 

Bluejack

 

Bandon

 

And I'm sure there are plenty others.

 

Executive courses are fun as well, could be another way to help, as would 12 hole courses.

 

Plenty of “could do's” but will anyone?

[Kor.A.Door]

Of course it's about profit margin, but it's also about revenue growth.

 

You can grow revenue by 1) growing your slice of the pie or 2) growing the entire pie.

I don't disagree with you. I just dont think they care as long as they make money. If the game grows in the process then that's great, but they aren't purposefully marketing to grow the game, there are programs that are trying, but the OEMs aren't actively doing it, but they will market through it.

[Jmikecpa]

Interesting topic considering I have three kids in junior golf. US Kids does a good job with their equipment and sets are relatively inexpensive compared to the gear most of us are used to playing. Not sure OEMs can do much to grow the game if the courses don't step in and help. My club is awesome to all three of my kids and they are treated as members, not the children of a member. Having access to the game that they can learn and grow at the pace they want is huge for their development.

 

One thing that will help grow the game is the PGA Jr. League. My son is going on year three of playing in it and it is fantastic. If you get a chance to check out any matches at a local club it is great how good these programs are.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[Big money]

They are trying,but the outcome is very vague.Golf is on a serious decline.It isn't the cost or the difficulty of the game.Its the time it takes to play.Many can't sacrfice a commitment like that anymore.People's busy schedules and lives will continue to kill the game.Hate to see the state of the game in 10 years.But one benefit is more open tee times for avid golfers like us

[RickyBobby_PR]

Why should they care about growing the game? Because growing the game means more customers to buy their stuff and if they can get a junior golfer hooked on their gear early the OEM could have a customer for life

Ping and titleist are probably the two leaders in this area already with their junior and high school programs. Now add pxg in there a little with what they are doing with college programs that used to be Nike schools and parsons has said any school interested even if it's women's team only to contact them