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Putter alignment... HELP!


schollzy

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I'm beginning to use a line on my ball again since I noticed I've developed a pattern of pushing putts right. (Right handed player) I'll line it up perfectly where I want it from behind the ball, but when I stand over it, it LOOKS like its lined up 6 inches RIGHT... the SAM putt lab confirms that I aim my putter face 2-4* closed and typically push my putts . Believe it or not, I play to around scratch, even averaging 31-33 putts a round. Any advice on here that could straighten me out?

 

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I used to push my putts right too. Found this video and it changed my putting for the better. The first part is about putting a good roll on the ball. What helped me most was the second part about alignment and eye line.

 

https://youtu.be/t7RrP1DtM3o

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See above post. This is how your eyes trick you and why eyes over the ball may not be best for you. When this occurs, the subconscious tries to make the correction you are seeing.

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"6 inches RIGHT and putter face 2-4* closed"

 

Which is it?

Probably both. The closed face is to compensate for the right appearance of the line

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My miss is a push with the putter.  Closing the face only complicates the stroke.  Coming from someone who has dealt with the "rights" for years my advice is to pick a very precise routine and set-up when putting. And practice that stroke/set-up at home.  Once you straighten out the stroke the routine will aid you in replicating it on the course.

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 It's a little hard to push putts when you line up with the clubhead closed.

 

No it isn't.  I setup open and my miss is left.   All in how the putter rotates during the stroke.  The setup is to compensate for the right miss and his vision is saying the ball needs to go right so he holds off the rotation.  there are lots of ways to open the putter even after setting up closed.  In the end,  the ball doesn't go where the face is pointing at setup,  it goes where the face is pointing at impact.  

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This (and this site) is a discussion board.

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Sure it is, because it requires heavy manipulation to do it that wrong.

 

And look, I'm not asking your opinion on what you think he's doing, I really don't care what you think - I'm asking for the OP to clarify their statement.

 

Sorry,  I will let you handle this since you are an expert and discussion doesn't seem to be allowed..   OP was pretty specific in his statement looks 6" right and Puttlab confirms that he aims left.   

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I used to push my putts right too. Found this video and it changed my putting for the better. The first part is about putting a good roll on the ball. What helped me most was the second part about alignment and eye line.https://youtu.be/t7RrP1DtM3o

I've used this video before and it's great. Being a lefty, I aimed a few degrees closed/right of my target and by the time my putter returned to impact, it was a degree open and putts were pushed. It was a mental mindset to keep from pulling putts. I've also used two pills training golf balls to help square up the putter at impact.

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Well this thread elevated quickly. BTW the video posted at the beginning helps a lot.

 

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Agreed. I'll agree with cnosil all day with this stuff. He has the tenure and has been a reliable source of info.

 

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Nice video!!! Thanks for posting that. I'm going to get a string and work on that. Very cool!

 

 

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Well this thread elevated quickly. BTW the video posted at the beginning helps a lot.

 

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Yep,  sorry about that.  The Malaska video is a good one to explain the perception on how we see things differently from the side than we do from behind.   Follows the approach that my instructor taught me.  You can try and convince yourself that it is lined up correctly but often your mind thinks it needs to send the putt right and you get the heavy manipulation that the other poster spoke of.  The better approach is to take a stance that gives you the same perception that you saw from behind. 

 

Obviously, there are lots of opinions on this and how to putt;  just conveying what my instructor has seen from analyzing strokes on Puttlab

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Agreed. I'll agree with cnosil all day with this stuff. He has the tenure and has been a reliable source of info.

 

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It really isn't about agreeing with me or the other poster or who has been here longer. It is all about discussion and providing an opinion.  I thought the OP was pretty clear in what he was experiencing and I am only communicating the information I have learned from my putting instructor.  That doesn't mean other people can't have differing opinions or learned something different that could also be correct.   

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Great video! I'm definitely going to give this a try- it makes so much sense, and putting never makes any sense to me.

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I used to always use the white of the ball, because the line would distract me or I'd misalign it.

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Curious if OP has eyes right over the ball as he putts or inside?

If me, I'd work on squaring the putter head at impact. Putting is an optical illusion any way lol

 

 

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I'm beginning to use a line on my ball again since I noticed I've developed a pattern of pushing putts right. (Right handed player) I'll line it up perfectly where I want it from behind the ball, but when I stand over it, it LOOKS like its lined up 6 inches RIGHT... the SAM putt lab confirms that I aim my putter face 2-4* closed and typically push my putts . Believe it or not, I play to around scratch, even averaging 31-33 putts a round. Any advice on here that could straighten me out?

 

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Is that you John Wayne? Is this me?

 

I do the exact same thing schollzy. SAM shows me aiming right, hooding the face and stroke path moving in to out. Trying to fix it drives me crazy, so most of the time I just go with it. It produces a very nice tight roll of the ball and is repeatable so as long as I don't try too hard to consciously aim I can putt very well. When I start aiming things go bad in a hurry.

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It really isn't about agreeing with me or the other poster or who has been here longer. It is all about discussion and providing an opinion.  I thought the OP was pretty clear in what he was experiencing and I am only communicating the information I have learned from my putting instructor.  That doesn't mean other people can't have differing opinions or learned something different that could also be correct.   

 

I understand that. I guess the point I was trying to make is that as a person still trying to learn things, when there is a difference of opinions, I'm more likely to trust someone who has been here a while and has a history of providing good information over a a relatively new person. Taking into consideration the way the information is communicated is another important aspect, IMO.

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Is that you John Wayne? Is this me?

 

I do the exact same thing schollzy. SAM shows me aiming right, hooding the face and stroke path moving in to out. Trying to fix it drives me crazy, so most of the time I just go with it. It produces a very nice tight roll of the ball and is repeatable so as long as I don't try too hard to consciously aim I can putt very well. When I start aiming things go bad in a hurry.

Don't fix it. We have had discussions in the past on the term “aim” before but generally where you aim at setup isn't important. Consistent aim is important. If you have consistent aim you start to get consistent impact which determines the balls direction. My path goes left so I need to have the putter face remain open to the target line at impact to start the ball online. This open face need isn't controlled by a stroke thing, it is managed by the putters design characteristics like weight, sight lines, or offset.

 

Your trying to Change is one drawback to something like a puttlab fitting. Is it better to change to match what someone programmed the puttlab to think is perfect or is it better to understand what you do and fit to your tendencies. It is all about what you are willing to change.

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I understand that. I guess the point I was trying to make is that as a person still trying to learn things, when there is a difference of opinions, I'm more likely to trust someone who has been here a while and has a history of providing good information over a a relatively new person. Taking into consideration the way the information is communicated is another important aspect, IMO.

I appreciate that. I happen to be a putter junkie and have done a lot of research on the putting stroke and found an instructor that I believe in.

 

The interesting think about golf is that even at the highest levels of instruction they still teach things differently. For example Dave Pelz is more SBST and rocking the shoulders, seemore putters would teach neutral setup with eyes inside ball, dave Stockton is left side controlled, Stan utley is arms with passive shoulders, and tiger would tech right side dominant. There isn't a single right way to putt, the le is understanding how the approach you choose impacts the stroke. I only provide my thoughts and opinions people still need to wade through what I post and determine if it is right for them.

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I appreciate that. I happen to be a putter junkie and have done a lot of research on the putting stroke and found an instructor that I believe in.

 

The interesting think about golf is that even at the highest levels of instruction they still teach things differently. For example Dave Pelz is more SBST and rocking the shoulders, seemore putters would teach neutral setup with eyes inside ball, dave Stockton is left side controlled, Stan utley is arms with passive shoulders, and tiger would tech right side dominant. There isn't a single right way to putt, the le is understanding how the approach you choose impacts the stroke. I only provide my thoughts and opinions people still need to wade through what I post and determine if it is right for them.

 

So much good stuff here.

 

It seems to me that if you have something more or less consistent and predictable, you can be an effective putter. I remember Mark Crossfield posting a video with his SAM PuttLab results. His scores for the "ideal" stroke were not good: he hits the ball on the toe-side of the sweet spot, and (as I recall) had a compensating face adjustment to make that strike location work. By contrast, his consistency scores are well into the 90s%. And his videos generally bear out that he's a very good putter.

 

This is not at all to suggest that a putting stroke can't be improved. But it does seem that once you reach a certain level of consistency of strike, path, and face, it might be better to spend time figuring out how to make that combination work, rather than constantly tinkering with the variables.

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This is not at all to suggest that a putting stroke can't be improved. But it does seem that once you reach a certain level of consistency of strike, path, and face, it might be better to spend time figuring out how to make that combination work, rather than constantly tinkering with the variables.

And this is why there are so many putters on the market. Marrying up the right putter to your stroke helps everything work together.

 

No different than clubs. We change lie, swingweight, loft , shape, offset, shaft dynamics to make the club work for your swing. The same thing applies to a putter.

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...

In the end, the ball doesn't go where the face is pointing at setup, it goes where the face is pointing at impact.

 

Was going to say the same thing. It's all about path .. and especially face .. at impact.

 

For me - I'm working on keeping the back of the lead (my left) hand moving down my aim line _after_ impact.

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Check your grip...

If the setup and alignment are good and square, the position of the hands can make a difference. My coach relayed a story about Tiger struggling with pushes, and one of the TV announcers who knew Tiger well noticed in a casual round that his right hand was positioned a little more on top of the left/grip than usual. The result was the hands coming back to "square" through the ball resulted in a slightly open face.

If you are playing to a scratch, it might be worth a look.

Driver:  :PXG: 311XF Gen5, Tensei CK Pro Orange, S flex

Fariway:  :PXG: 311XF Gen6 3-Wood, Tensei Blue 55g R flex

Hybrid:   :PXG: 211, 3H Project X Evenflow H, 80g, 5.5

              :titleist-small: TSR2 4H, Tensei Blue R (Forum Tester)

Irons:  :titleist-small: T200 2023, Tensei Blue R (Forum Tester), 5-GW

Wedges:   :cleveland-small: CBX2 Zipcore  52*, 56* Project X Catalyst Spinner Graphite Shaft

Putter: :EVNROLL: ER2 Murdered Out

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Just watched the video, I don't trust my own line cause it looks off. I am hitting the putting green before playing tonight so maybe I will trust my line at address.

Set1
Driver - :cobra-small:Cobra King F6+ set 9.5 D, Matrix 65M4 Black Tie R-Flex 65g low-mid launch 
Fairway - :cobra-small:Cobra F6 3/4 and 7/8 both R-flex
Irons - Tour Edge Exotics E8 Steel R-flex 4-PW
Wedges - :cleveland-small:Cleveland CBX 50 and 54, and Smart Sole 3 58
Putter - Top Flite Tour Align 5
Rangefinder - Leupold GX-2i3

 

Set2

Driver - Custom Built - Accura SP-700 400cc 10deg 48.5" S-flex

Hybrids - :adams-small:Adams Idea A50s 3 and 4

Irons - :taylormade-small:Taylor Made Burner Oversize 3-PW, lightly used 3 and 4 still in original plastic(auction buy $15 w/bag and several other clubs)

Wedges - Snake Eyes 52 & 56 and Dunlop True Tech Lob 64

Putter - W :wilson-small:ilson Harmonized M1

 

Set 3

My original set approximately 43 years old and I occasionally take the irons out for a swing

:titelist-small:Titleist Lite 100

 

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