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Local Rule at certain courses in our area, what's your take?


newballcoach

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Guys I got for my first round today. It was bad, but wonderful, and so nice to be back on the course (despite it being 5 degrees celcius) and I was still able to drag my buddy out with me.

 

There is a golf course conglomerate in our area that owns or operates probably 70-75% of our local courses. I'm not a huge fan of the way they run their business (some of the courses have gone downhill a bit since they have taken over) but they are generally fine. However, this year, with minimum wage in our province going up to $14/hour (long history behind this one) many golf courses are crying poor because all of their maintenance workers, backshop kids etc. all got raises. While the company said they didn't want to raise green fees, they are trying to save money in other ways.

 

So this conglomerate (Golf North) created a local rule for bunkers, trying to save maintenance on bunkers and ideally damage. The new rule is lift, rake and place in all bunkers, meaning you will always have a perfect lie in the bunker. I think it's ridiculous, and probably won't save anybody any maintenance costs, but wondering what you guys think. It is weird because some courses in the are will have this, while others won't. Anybody heard of anything like this before?

WITB

 

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I think this is definitely a fundamental violation of the rules. WTF!??? Play it where it lies is so ingrained (in even my dumb-ass) that this "suggestion"/rule seems asinine..!!! I "kinda" get where they're coming from, but $ shouldn't change the G-D fundamentals..!!!! :angry: That violates the entire structure of the game though...nice try but somebody needs to step on their peepee!!!! :excl: 

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I have never heard of that as a permanent type rule> I have seen it invoked say after some big rains but never on a permanent basis But depending on how you interpret the Rules of Golf the USGA does leave a lot of latitude for "Local Rules"  I do know during the tourist seasons here a lot of OBs etc are marked as a lateral hazard to speed up play and some drop areas around a hazard have a lot of latitude. Got to agree with Ping on that to a point. But then again I will say 99% of the folks do not play strictly by the rules but do their own thing and have fun. Maintaining traps on a public course can be a PITA . My old man would tell you that. We had 3 on our 9 hole course. 1 of them actually helped speed up play it was on a elevated par 3 and kept balls that came off the hill from going in the lake. One LOL was to help prevent one from driving the green on a short down hill par 4. The 3rd one served no purpose at all period it was just there. 

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I honestly don't see how that's going to save a lot of $, to be honest. And like others noted, how quickly will the traps turn nasty due to people not cleaning up after themselves?

 

I guess you can still post your scores for handicap purposes, although it's not a preferred situation - http://www.usga.org/HandicapFAQ/handicap_answer.asp?FAQidx=17

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Well.......... I'd kinda look at it like playing winter rules - i.e. where if you're unlucky you're left with a poor lie in the fairway because the grass hasn't grown in, or (because your course's superintendent doesn't like sand-filled divots - you're left with a shot from the backhoe-like hole somebody before you left in the fairway because they didn't bother replacing their divot.

 

Now I guess in your situation the situation has arisen because they're trying to save on maintenance costs, and even if your course does own a sandtrap raking machine it would probably take a full day to maintain them all, and if it doesn't, it surely would take a crew of three all day (or more) to rake and maintain all the traps.

 

But I will suggest, having once been a member at a course in which it seemed there were a lot of lazy players, who seemingly didn't care to properly rake the sandtraps (or fixing their ballmarks on the green) after playing from them - and it would really piss me off, after I was already angry for mishitting a shot into a trap, to find my ball having settled into somebody's deeply dug in footprint, or the bomb crater they'd left from their poorly played explosion shot.

 

Now some will say, "golf is about playing it as it lies" - and I get it, I'm all for following the rules of the game, but I'm also for fair and equitable treatment for all. ... And somehow I don't think it right if each of us hit our balls into a trap, and you're left with a shot from raked lie, and I'm left with an unplayable lie because my ball is in a hole from the fat guy that played in the group in front of us that climbed out of the high side of the bunker and was in too big of a hurry to get on with his round that he left a mess behind him.

Just for the record, us fat guys ALWAYS rake the traps. It's the skinny guys who leave them a mess.

 

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Guys I got for my first round today. It was bad, but wonderful, and so nice to be back on the course (despite it being 5 degrees celcius) and I was still able to drag my buddy out with me.

 

There is a golf course conglomerate in our area that owns or operates probably 70-75% of our local courses. I'm not a huge fan of the way they run their business (some of the courses have gone downhill a bit since they have taken over) but they are generally fine. However, this year, with minimum wage in our province going up to $14/hour (long history behind this one) many golf courses are crying poor because all of their maintenance workers, backshop kids etc. all got raises. While the company said they didn't want to raise green fees, they are trying to save money in other ways.

 

So this conglomerate (Golf North) created a local rule for bunkers, trying to save maintenance on bunkers and ideally damage. The new rule is lift, rake and place in all bunkers, meaning you will always have a perfect lie in the bunker. I think it's ridiculous, and probably won't save anybody any maintenance costs, but wondering what you guys think. It is weird because some courses in the are will have this, while others won't. Anybody heard of anything like this before?

Not sure how that local rule would save money - unless they have a crew that was constantly raking out the bunkers. I guess I'm also one of the odd plAayers that prefers playing out of bunkers versus our tall rough - so where it lands in the bunker doesn't bother me.

 

Our local rule - is a 2 stroke penalty for hitting out of the drop zones on 2 adjacent par 3 water holes we have at the club. Both are close to the lake Erie shoreline and in the direction of (unprotected) prevailing winds. You'd think that 135 and 145 yd holes would be relatively easy to hit the greens - but when the water level is down in the fall you can't believe the hundreds (thousands?) of balls lying in the mud. 

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I think it makes sense. If the course can't maintain the bunkers properly it would make sense to allow the bunker to be raked and the played. If the course maintained the bunkers that would be the lie you had anyway, unless someone didn't clean up after themselves prior. This will save he course thousands of dollars in maintainance costs per year.

 

Pinehurst #2 has the local rules that all sand is waste area, and you can ground your club everywhere. It every course does that either, but it doesn't make it wrong either.

 

I think this local rule of raking the bunkers is just fine.

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I honestly don't see how that's going to save a lot of $, to be honest. And like others noted, how quickly will the traps turn nasty due to people not cleaning up after themselves?

 

I guess you can still post your scores for handicap purposes, although it's not a preferred situation - http://www.usga.org/HandicapFAQ/handicap_answer.asp?FAQidx=17

At our course, it takes the turf department 3.5 hours every day to run the bunker rake through our 14 bunkers. That is a hard cost of 3.5*(wage)*7 every week. At our place, that is $270. Multiply that by 52 weeks, and you get $14,000. That does not include fuel and maintenance cost for the machine.

 

If your course has a lot of bunkers, that cost could be significantly higher.

 

Greens department budgets are no joke.

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If they want to save maintenance $$$ just get rid of bunkers. 90% of the courses in my area don't maintain them properly anyways

 

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Seems to me this story is really about the "living wage" myth. Doesn't matter if you're flipping burgers or raking bunkers. It's a pathway to failure. 

Forcing higher wages on businesses which they must pay just might mean closing a golf course or reducing the workforce. Or both!

It's a feel good story but is doomed to failure.

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No comment

 

I think bunkers are way too banal as it is. I can't believe someone will allow lift, rake and place in a hazard.

 

To me unprepared bunkers would allow them to become what they are intended to be.

 

 

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My thoughts are the courses will slowly get away from any bunker maintenance and then turn them into grass bunkers to save money.

 

 

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Great, let's have the hardest working employees at our courses missing meals, while we roll around in our carts like a bunch of fat cats. #historyisfundamental

1938 you probably could live on minimum wage. Without googling it I'm just guessing.

 

 

 

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Great, let's have the hardest working employees at our courses missing meals, while we roll around in our carts like a bunch of fat cats. #historyisfundamental

 

The hardest working employee at your club is teaching a lesson to Mrs. Havercamp after he picked the range because the range kid called in sick. Then he has to pull a shift at the Bar, because the bartender is late (again), and then he has to clean the goose s*** off of Dr. Beepers shoes...  

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I spent 14 years of my life working nearly every single golf job there is. The final three were as a 1st assistant where my weekly take home was $525/week before taxes. I blame nobody but myself for choosing this path and knew at the time that the paltry wages were a path to more paltry wages in a career that offered no secure future.

 

I spent nearly 65 hours a week, 6 days a week at the course and had no way to spend any of my salary. I actually was able to save just as a product of that lifestyle.

 

There is so much waste from top to bottom in nearly every golf operation yet they remain profitable. Just as in the corporate world, we've accepted the cultural norms that the top earners are entitled to bountiful raises and the meager laborer should do more to get themselves out of their situation.

 

Truth is, we will always need cart barn golf services and dishwashers and line cooks. I hold the belief that anyone who works full time and puts an effort should earn a living wage.

 

This was not an issue in the 1950's and 1960's. Think about it. We are being conned into believing that we should bow down to those with money and spend our lives being grateful that we can serve them.

 

All right, that's all I have to say on the topic.

 

 

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I honestly don't see how that's going to save a lot of $, to be honest. And like others noted, how quickly will the traps turn nasty due to people not cleaning up after themselves?

 

I guess you can still post your scores for handicap purposes, although it's not a preferred situation - http://www.usga.org/HandicapFAQ/handicap_answer.asp?FAQidx=17

 

I wasn't sure about the cost saving thing either.... maybe less manpower to rake bunkers? Or less repair needed because nobody is hitting out of plugged lies, etc.

WITB

 

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Either way, I thought this would be an interesting conversation topic, and you guys never disappoint! Thanks for the input.

 

For the record, I don't plan on using this rule this summer (as I'm a half decent bunker player) although I know others will.

WITB

 

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That's like saying mowing the greens once a week with a hand mower, like they did back in the day - instead of power mowers grooming them perfectly every day or so - is "what they are intended to be."

I would disagree. The green is not a hazard, bunkers are. Also that's a great idea, slowing the greens down would significantly increase the pace of play. :)

 

Having written that the local rule is ridiculous. Stay out of the bunker and you don't have to worry about it.

 

 

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If the new bunker rule really does save enough money to help the club out then I agree with it. But everyone has to participate. if These are public courses well it won't happen and will turn to a dog track.

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I wasn't sure about the cost saving thing either.... maybe less manpower to rake bunkers? Or less repair needed because nobody is hitting out of plugged lies, etc.

The course I play at is a Nicklaus design that is lousy with bunkers. Massive waste areas, steep faced fairway bunkers and deep greenside. They take an enormous amount of man hours to keep in playable condition and that's if it doesn't rain. They need new sand, new irrigation, sometimes heavy duty equipment if one washes out in a downpour. All of those things have a real cost.

The sad thing is they add nothing to the course other than dragging out pace of play. The same contours in grassy little knolls and hollows would move things along, still challenge the player, and potentially even allow for some running and bouncing shots instead of an all aerial game.

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Guys I got for my first round today. It was bad, but wonderful, and so nice to be back on the course (despite it being 5 degrees celcius) and I was still able to drag my buddy out with me.

 

There is a golf course conglomerate in our area that owns or operates probably 70-75% of our local courses. I'm not a huge fan of the way they run their business (some of the courses have gone downhill a bit since they have taken over) but they are generally fine. However, this year, with minimum wage in our province going up to $14/hour (long history behind this one) many golf courses are crying poor because all of their maintenance workers, backshop kids etc. all got raises. While the company said they didn't want to raise green fees, they are trying to save money in other ways.

 

So this conglomerate (Golf North) created a local rule for bunkers, trying to save maintenance on bunkers and ideally damage. The new rule is lift, rake and place in all bunkers, meaning you will always have a perfect lie in the bunker. I think it's ridiculous, and probably won't save anybody any maintenance costs, but wondering what you guys think. It is weird because some courses in the are will have this, while others won't. Anybody heard of anything like this before?

gold in that there sand my friend golf lol

 

 

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You disagreeing doesn't make me wrong. The use of the term hazard is a comparatively modern one, as is inserting them on golf courses, just like multi-level and highly sloped greens which too increase the pace of play. Using your argument all greens should be flat.

 

Lots of courses have local rules, it doesn't make them ridiculous - no more than courses with un-groomed waste areas saving on maintenance while allowing one to ground their club in something that is clearly a so-called hazard.

Well that's interesting because now you're suggesting what I did - leave the traps alone and just st play it as you find it.

 

 

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Taylor Made Stealth 2 10.5 Diamana S plus 60  Aldila  R flex   - 42.25 inches 

SMT 4 wood bassara R flex, four wood head, 3 wood shaft

Ping G410 7, 9 wood  Alta 65 R flex

Srixon ZX5 MK II  5-GW - UST recoil Dart 65 R flex

India 52,56 (60 pending)  UST recoil 75's R flex  

Evon roll ER 5 32 inches

It's our offseason so auditioning candidates - looking for that right mix of low spin long, more spin around the greens - TBD   

 

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