is fitting overrated ?

[Topline]

For most players, I believe being fit for clubs is overrated, and may even be counterproductive. The following is my reasoning.

When a fitting client strikes balls the fitter is typically watching the ball flight and then making equipment adjustments to

correct and, or, improve ball flight trajectory, accuracy etc....After the fitting, the player is provided with recommended  club specifications which promote his swing faults.

I understand the majority of players do not have the time or inclination to learn fundamentally sound swing technique, but an equipment fitting using swing faults is ingraining same and likely harming the players chances for ever improving his swing technique.

So, the above is about dynamic fitting, which I question.

However, I do believe there is merit to static fitting, which provides club specifications based on a persons height, wrist-to-floor measurements. 

In summary, I think static fitting may promote fundamentally sound address position and swing while dynamic fitting

may promote swing faults.

Please reply to this thread with your thoughts, thanks.

[russtopherb]

In my opinion, the statement is based on a faulty premise of fittings helping to promote swing faults. They don't. They look at swing speed, club direction, angle of attack, etc to provide shafts and heads that provide the best performance for that golfers particular swing.

 

I don't see how something that provides immediate return can be overrated.

 

 

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[null]

Static fittings make no sense. The point of impact isn't at my address position.

[cnosil]

Fitting is not overrated. Here is an example using 2 players from this forum on why dynamic fitting is important.

 

Ole gray went to club champion was fit into a G400 max with a fujikura vista pro 65 gram stiff shaft. I think his swing speed is in the 80s. The weight and stiffness is based on his aggressive transition

 

I went to club champion and was fit into a G400 with vista pro 55 stiff shaft. My swing speed is in the 100-105+ range. I am a smooth transition type player.

 

I would never have expect OG to be in a shaft that was the same stiffness and heavier than one I was fitted into.

 

I am sure if we made dramatic changes to our swing we may need a different shaft, but in general swing fixes would not significantly impact our shaft needs.

 

We could carry this into shaft drop, angle of impact, strike efficiency and other non static type things but static fitting doesn't provide much value to a fitting.

[russtopherb]

Topline, have you ever had a fitting?

 

 

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[revkev]

Interesting -

 

Do as you please but I know that a players swing characteristics stay steady barring lessons and hard, hard work. The idea is to swing consistently even if there's a so called fault, consistent swing, equipment that fits equals better results.

 

But we've also beat this topic to death. You could read through any number of threads on it just from the past few months.

 

 

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[cnosil]

I hear you, but I've also observed some players regress after a fitting.

For example, two players I know (both skilled ball strikers, routinely hitting lots of fairways and greens, shooting par scores etc...) came out of their respective fittings with recommendations to use lighter weight shafts. I think the reason for the recommendation was that both of their swing speed ball speed, launch angle etc... computer numbers improved with the testing of lighter shafts.

However, on the golf course I noticed that the tempo of their swings (and shot making) was adversely affected by the lighter weight shafts.

So, I question the merits of using electronic measuring devices to determine ideal club specifications. I am not "anti technology", but I do wonder if

popular devices such as TrackMan don't sometimes actually do a player more harm than good.

What you are saying here is a completely different thing. You question now is more about players chasing optimal numbers based on a launch monitor versus actual course performance. In my opinion performance while playing golf is way more important than what numbers on a launch monitor show.

[yungkory]

It sounds like you fit yourself into a driver and shaft combination that works for you. Other than the absence of a launch monitor, how is that any different from what goes on in a fitting?

 

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[Bosox04]

I think fitting helps, if it is done right. I believe the static fit is a good place to start, and then make adjustments. Also, I want to be fit outside. i want to see the ball flight. I'm not sure a fitting as detailed as Club Champion does is required as long as the fitter knows you and your swing. The fitter I use is very good, and will not try to sell me a club if there is not a significant difference.

[RickyBobby_PR]

I think overall fittings are important. The good fitters can use both data and what they see in bit ball flight as well as how the player swings and delivers the club to find a head/shaft combo that will help reduce the big miss by the golfer while not affecting the shits when the golfer makes good contact/swings.

 

Fittings can be mental for some and when the golfer ends up with something different than they expected to be fit too it affects them with confidence.

[Mr_Theoo]

Fitting is not overrated. Here is an example using 2 players from this forum on why dynamic fitting is important.

 

Ole gray went to club champion was fit into a G400 max with a fujikura vista pro 65 gram stiff shaft. I think his swing speed is in the 80s. The weight and stiffness is based on his aggressive transition

 

I went to club champion and was fit into a G400 with vista pro 55 stiff shaft. My swing speed is in the 100-105+ range. I am a smooth transition type player.

 

I would never have expect OG to be in a shaft that was the same stiffness and heavier than one I was fitted into.

 

I am sure if we made dramatic changes to our swing we may need a different shaft, but in general swing fixes would not significantly impact our shaft needs.

 

We could carry this into shaft drop, angle of impact, strike efficiency and other non static type things but static fitting doesn't provide much value to a fitting.

I'll add myself as a third who also went to club champion and was fitted into a X flex. While I currently play that flex in my irons I did not think it was correct until after I went there

[ole gray]

I think overall fittings are important. The good fitters can use both data and what they see in bit ball flight as well as how the player swings and delivers the club to find a head/shaft combo that will help reduce the big miss by the golfer while not affecting the shits when the golfer makes good contact/swings.

 

Fittings can be mental for some and when the golfer ends up with something different than they expected to be fit too it affects them with confidence.

 

 ^^^^^^^^

 

 

The fitting for my driver which was recently accomplished at Club Champion has dramatically changed my tee game. Both in distance and in accuracy.  Now that I have confidence in the club I was fit in, I am making a better and more fluid pass through the ball.  I don't know what my club head speed is on the golf course however it's obviously much better than the numbers we saw in the fitting stall. I'm hitting tee shots that totally blow myself and playing partners away.  I am now a true believer in a good fitting. 

 

The fitter had me swing five different drivers with multiple shafts in each head. When finished the optimum combo provided me with astonishing results. I was blown away.  Yea I believe in fittings and this was my first ever but you can bet ya best breeding bull, I ain't never buying another driver without getting fit.  The proof is in the pudding. 

 

It's kind of like harnessing up two plowing mules. If a mule is not properly fitted to the harness, he will ultimately pull too much to either side of the row. The mule with the proper fit will plow you a row straighter than the latest John Deere. Nuff said 

[JohnnyPenso]

The biggest weakness of the fitting process is that I don't hit clubs off a carpet when I play golf. Club to turf interaction and feel is a big part of your success in ball striking and hitting off a carpet doesn't feel remotely close to taking a divot. A thorough fairway club fitting IMO would involve having a club or two built to your specs that you can take to the range or the course to hit so you can see actual ball flight and feel and see how the club works for you in real world conditions. Launch monitors have their place as a starting point but relying on them completely for your fitting process leaves some huge variables in play.

[Wedgie]

I went to a “top 100” fitter for an iron fitting last year. Instead of the top 100 guy I got the JV squad or fitter in training. I wasn't pleased during the fitting but figured he knew better than I so I made the purchase. Traded the clubs in for an off the rack set 2 months later and game went right back to normal.

 

The other day I was playing as a single and caught the twosome in front of me. Turns out one of them I played a scramble with last year. They picked me for the team because I could drive it around 220. That made me the bomber on the team. I know right....we didn't win.

 

Anyway, I have a new driver that gets me to 240 or so. The dude tells me he went to the same fitter, actually got the top 100 guy, and was blowing the ball by me.

 

So does fitting matter? If done so properly then absolutely. If done poorly it leaves a really bad taste in the mouth and a general distrust of the process.

 

I would never recommend the fitter I went to until I saw this guy hit his driver. But even then you need to make sure you get the right guy.

 

Confusing? It is for guys like me that have average knowledge about the process.

 

 

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[RickyBobby_PR]

The biggest weakness of the fitting process is that I don't hit clubs off a carpet when I play golf. Club to turf interaction and feel is a big part of your success in ball striking and hitting off a carpet doesn't feel remotely close to taking a divot. A thorough fairway club fitting IMO would involve having a club or two built to your specs that you can take to the range or the course to hit so you can see actual ball flight and feel and see how the club works for you in real world conditions. Launch monitors have their place as a starting point but relying on them completely for your fitting process leaves some huge variables in play.

While I agree that we don't play off carpet on the course a fitting off carpet indoors or a mat provides the perfect lie every time and you have a clean club face on everyshot so there are no outside factors affecting contact

[cnosil]

We have debated this topic in numerous threads. The pro get fit people can give you 100 reasons why you should. The anti fitters can give 100 reasons not too. Then you get to the indoor vs outdoor arguments. Trackman vs other monitor. Will never be settled. Yes, fitting experiences will be different based on the quality of the fitter. Some will be good and some will be bad.

 

This is just like everything else in the universe. In the end it is up to you to do what you think is best for your game.

[PlaidJacket]

I can't add anything to this discussion that hasn't been said or discussed ad nauseum. I believe in fitting, was willing to pay for it, and it worked beautifully for me. I'll do it again too. And yes... my game improved. Harumph!

 

If you think fitting is a good thing and helps your game. By all means - go for it. If you think fitting is unnecessary; fine. Have a nice day.

[bens197]

Last week I went for a driver fitting as an anniversary gift from my lovely wife.

 

Once warm, I took ten swings with my Titleist 913D3 which has held a solid spot in my bag since 2014. I absolutely destroy this driver.

 

Guess what? The data revealed an average launch angle of 18 degrees and 3400 RPM. Average carry, 265 total 280.

 

G400 LST. 11 degree launch angle, 2100 RPM. Average carry, 288 total 302.

 

Embrace the science.

 

 

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[Golfspy_CG2]

For most players, I believe being fit for clubs is overrated, and may even be counterproductive. The following is my reasoning.

When a fitting client strikes balls the fitter is typically watching the ball flight and then making equipment adjustments to

correct and, or, improve ball flight trajectory, accuracy etc....After the fitting, the player is provided with recommended club specifications which promote his swing faults.

I understand the majority of players do not have the time or inclination to learn fundamentally sound swing technique, but an equipment fitting using swing faults is ingraining same and likely harming the players chances for ever improving his swing technique.

So, the above is about dynamic fitting, which I question.

However, I do believe there is merit to static fitting, which provides club specifications based on a persons height, wrist-to-floor measurements.

In summary, I think static fitting may promote fundamentally sound address position and swing while dynamic fitting

may promote swing faults.

Please reply to this thread with your thoughts, thanks.

Only read the title. But I can fully answer No!!!

 

 

 

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[_jngolf_]

I agree with Topline on this. I work as a club professional, but I am only teaching and not doing club fitting myself. I recently had a client who is about 5 inches shorter than average and has quite long arms in relation to his body size. He was somehow fitted for standard length clubs 2 degrees upright, which doesn't make any sense. He couldn't get into a comfortable setup. I guess he got fitted for these due to him swinging somewhat over the top and delivering the shaft steep. 

I am myself also shorter than average and I have never really felt that I have the correct length and lie on my clubs. I have competed on national level with some success and have obviously been fitted for new clubs at several occasions by various club fitters, but not once have my height or my wrist to floor distance been measured to determine the true length/lie combination. For me, this seems like the obvious starting point.  

 

[THEZIPR23]

5 minutes ago, _jngolf_ said:

I agree with Topline on this. I work as a club professional, but I am only teaching and not doing club fitting myself. I recently had a client who is about 5 inches shorter than average and has quite long arms in relation to his body size. He was somehow fitted for standard length clubs 2 degrees upright, which doesn't make any sense. He couldn't get into a comfortable setup. I guess he got fitted for these due to him swinging somewhat over the top and delivering the shaft steep. 

I am myself also shorter than average and I have never really felt that I have the correct length and lie on my clubs. I have competed on national level with some success and have obviously been fitted for new clubs at several occasions by various club fitters, but not once have my height or my wrist to floor distance been measured to determine the true length/lie combination. For me, this seems like the obvious starting point.  

 

Why would you take a static measurement when you don't get back to the same position at impact? I measure +1.5" if doing wrist to floor, I play +.5" In no way do I need that extra 1" and in fact it is a detriment. 

[fixyurdivot]

On 5/4/2018 at 9:43 AM, Topline said:

For most players, I believe being fit for clubs is overrated, and may even be counterproductive. The following is my reasoning.

When a fitting client strikes balls the fitter is typically watching the ball flight and then making equipment adjustments to

correct and, or, improve ball flight trajectory, accuracy etc....After the fitting, the player is provided with recommended  club specifications which promote his swing faults.

I understand the majority of players do not have the time or inclination to learn fundamentally sound swing technique, but an equipment fitting using swing faults is ingraining same and likely harming the players chances for ever improving his swing technique.

So, the above is about dynamic fitting, which I question.

However, I do believe there is merit to static fitting, which provides club specifications based on a persons height, wrist-to-floor measurements. 

In summary, I think static fitting may promote fundamentally sound address position and swing while dynamic fitting

may promote swing faults.

Please reply to this thread with your thoughts, thanks.

Prior to my joining MGS a couple years ago, I shared your sediments about club fitting.  I think part of this was due to my frugalness and my thought that newer technology clubs wouldn't offer any appreciable advantage over my PE2's; which I'd been playing for 30+ years.  While I still fall squarely into the "it's the archer not the arrows" camp, I now have first hand experience that new technology clubs, and using state of art fitting equipment/methods, are of value - for all player levels. 

I kind of get your point about fittings just fitting clubs to less than perfect swing mechanics.  So let's qualify the discussion by leaving out people with little or no experience and who arguably should be on a range and not the golf course (I know, I know, that sounds terrible).  But, if you think about it, we see all kinds of various swing mechanics amongst the pro tours.  I suspect the clubs that fit Jim Furyk's swing wouldn't be all that great for Adam Scott.  There are far more less than perfect swings in the golfing community than there are perfect ones.  Some of this is physical limitations, some by design.  Further, most all of us that are wanting scoring improvement are constantly making minor adjustments - and that does not require different clubs.

It is my belief that fitting clubs to fit the player, dynamically, makes perfect sense, and I will go further in saying one does a disservice to him/herself by not choosing to make that investment.

Edit:  I just noticed this thread predates my joining MGS.  What's the forum penalty for digging up graves? 

[Titleist81]

Bottom line

For Amateurs and weekend warriors fitting is most definitely needed.

I guarantee if a Pro picked up a “non fitted” club he would get same results as with his fitted gear.

Non professional golfers just don’t have the ability to adapt to any club so they need the club to adapt to them!

simple as that......

Edited March 15, 2021 by Titleist81

[RollingGreens]

29 minutes ago, Titleist81 said:

Bottom line

For Amateurs and weekend warriors fitting is most definitely needed.

I guarantee if a Pro picked up a “non fitted” club he would get same results as with his fitted gear.

Non professional golfers just don’t have the ability to adapt to any club so they need the club to adapt to them!

simple as that......

I don’t believe that pros at all would get the same results with Non fitted gear.  Their is a reason their are tour trucks at every tournament. They weight of each club or driver is specific, down to the tenth of a gram. They would be better than most with non fitted gear because of their skill level alone. Pros are more paranoid than anyone about their equipment and all the fine details need to be managed

[tchat07]

I would say a "good" fitting is not overrated for most players. I think it's a quality piece, a good fitter will do what they can to give the player the best chance at success. I had a fitter tell me they could jack up the lie on my club in order to help my direction but said it would be better for me to fix my swing and just stick with the standard lie. Hard truth but very accurate.

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[McGolf]

I've watched this thread with interest as one might understand.

Lets start with a bit of common ground. The one absolute is when the ball is in the cup the hole is over.

That's about it. We all have different golfing needs, have different physical and mental attributes and experiences which makes up why golf is so fantastic, there is far more than one  way to get the ball into the cup.

Much like there are good and bad teaching professionals there are good and bad fitters. Just as there are different swing methods there are different fitting methods and as posted, having the best gear doesn't always equate to the best experience. Then again, those who can use this same stuff can generate results that can be mind boggling.

So, what is a fitting or even a lesson:

1) An educational experience - you as the "fittee" should know what process will be used to come to the conclusions for your final recommendations. Be comfortable with the process. Again, much like swing lesson systems you must be comfortable in the process the professional uses. It should inform your of short comings and positives. Ask questions, why are we doing this or that. Just don't take a club and give it a sworp. 

2) A discussion of your game - Tell the fitter how you play golf, where you play golf, what you want to accomplish during the fitting. Discuss good shots and bad ones. One great hit does not conclude the fitting. A series of good to great shots is more of an affirmation of the process. Let the fitter know what you feel when a club is handed to you. Let them know if you feel it was a quality shot ,, or not. It is at this point both you are the fitter are finding that "same page" to really get things dialed in. This is where you discuss swing faults possible corrections or the identification of the fault and if you intend to try a correction. What fits your eye, what you want.

3) Testing - Going through the process to find proper specifications for YOU, then put together clubs based on the findings, hit some balls look at numbers, give feed back, make sure you have a good average not just one bomb or one duffed shot. No, you will not hit every shaft or head in the house. You paid for expertise in this area not the time to hit everything on the wall and see what falls out. Personally, Dynamic testing is the way to get results. Static measurement might get you started but if you don't swing you don't know.  Don't machine gun swings, take your time as you would on the course.

4) A final result/ recommendation - Once you have talked about your game, did testing to determine the proper specs of your gear, discusses where you play, how you play and your goals. The final piece will be the final selection of the gear. keep in mind the fitter will be proficient in a select number of heads, shafts, grips etc. Test the combinations to see if the new gear produces the results you are looking to accomplish. There may be need for tweaking stuff but that's the fun of the fitting. If you are not comfortable with the companies provided you can always ask about the company you are interested in and get educated information. Get an email or hard copy of your results and recommendations. This should at minimum have the all the specs, length, loft, lie, flex, head, shaft, grip and size etc. As a bonus maybe a golf ball that will work for you. Finally maybe some swing things to consider. just a good fitting should take into account your swing.

You have no obligation to purchase golf gear from the fitter but it is nice to support them if the job they performed was to your liking. 

What is not a fitting:

1) It is not a demo day, it is not a "swing this and see what a computer spits out", it is not an open bay to hit the latest releases to compare your gear to. Although fun,,, not a fitting.

 

[cnosil]

I've watched this thread with interest as one might understand.
Lets start with a bit of common ground. The one absolute is when the ball is in the cup the hole is over.
That's about it. We all have different golfing needs, have different physical and mental attributes and experiences which makes up why golf is so fantastic, there is far more than one  way to get the ball into the cup.
Much like there are good and bad teaching professionals there are good and bad fitters. Just as there are different swing methods there are different fitting methods and as posted, having the best gear doesn't always equate to the best experience. Then again, those who can use this same stuff can generate results that can be mind boggling.
So, what is a fitting or even a lesson:
1) An educational experience - you as the "fittee" should know what process will be used to come to the conclusions for your final recommendations. Be comfortable with the process. Again, much like swing lesson systems you must be comfortable in the process the professional uses. It should inform your of short comings and positives. Ask questions, why are we doing this or that. Just don't take a club and give it a sworp. 
2) A discussion of your game - Tell the fitter how you play golf, where you play golf, what you want to accomplish during the fitting. Discuss good shots and bad ones. One great hit does not conclude the fitting. A series of good to great shots is more of an affirmation of the process. Let the fitter know what you feel when a club is handed to you. Let them know if you feel it was a quality shot ,, or not. It is at this point both you are the fitter are finding that "same page" to really get things dialed in. This is where you discuss swing faults possible corrections or the identification of the fault and if you intend to try a correction. What fits your eye, what you want.
3) Testing - Going through the process to find proper specifications for YOU, then put together clubs based on the findings, hit some balls look at numbers, give feed back, make sure you have a good average not just one bomb or one duffed shot. No, you will not hit every shaft or head in the house. You paid for expertise in this area not the time to hit everything on the wall and see what falls out. Personally, Dynamic testing is the way to get results. Static measurement might get you started but if you don't swing you don't know.  Don't machine gun swings, take your time as you would on the course.
4) A final result/ recommendation - Once you have talked about your game, did testing to determine the proper specs of your gear, discusses where you play, how you play and your goals. The final piece will be the final selection of the gear. keep in mind the fitter will be proficient in a select number of heads, shafts, grips etc. Test the combinations to see if the new gear produces the results you are looking to accomplish. There may be need for tweaking stuff but that's the fun of the fitting. If you are not comfortable with the companies provided you can always ask about the company you are interested in and get educated information. Get an email or hard copy of your results and recommendations. This should at minimum have the all the specs, length, loft, lie, flex, head, shaft, grip and size etc. As a bonus maybe a golf ball that will work for you. Finally maybe some swing things to consider. just a good fitting should take into account your swing.
You have no obligation to purchase golf gear from the fitter but it is nice to support them if the job they performed was to your liking. 
What is not a fitting:
1) It is not a demo day, it is not a "swing this and see what a computer spits out", it is not an open bay to hit the latest releases to compare your gear to. Although fun,,, not a fitting.
 

Great stuff in this post!