is fitting overrated ?

[THEZIPR23 6,458]

5 minutes ago, _jngolf_ said:

I agree with Topline on this. I work as a club professional, but I am only teaching and not doing club fitting myself. I recently had a client who is about 5 inches shorter than average and has quite long arms in relation to his body size. He was somehow fitted for standard length clubs 2 degrees upright, which doesn't make any sense. He couldn't get into a comfortable setup. I guess he got fitted for these due to him swinging somewhat over the top and delivering the shaft steep. 

I am myself also shorter than average and I have never really felt that I have the correct length and lie on my clubs. I have competed on national level with some success and have obviously been fitted for new clubs at several occasions by various club fitters, but not once have my height or my wrist to floor distance been measured to determine the true length/lie combination. For me, this seems like the obvious starting point.  

 

Why would you take a static measurement when you don't get back to the same position at impact? I measure +1.5" if doing wrist to floor, I play +.5" In no way do I need that extra 1" and in fact it is a detriment. 

[fixyurdivot 17,385]

On 5/4/2018 at 9:43 AM, Topline said:

For most players, I believe being fit for clubs is overrated, and may even be counterproductive. The following is my reasoning.

When a fitting client strikes balls the fitter is typically watching the ball flight and then making equipment adjustments to

correct and, or, improve ball flight trajectory, accuracy etc....After the fitting, the player is provided with recommended  club specifications which promote his swing faults.

I understand the majority of players do not have the time or inclination to learn fundamentally sound swing technique, but an equipment fitting using swing faults is ingraining same and likely harming the players chances for ever improving his swing technique.

So, the above is about dynamic fitting, which I question.

However, I do believe there is merit to static fitting, which provides club specifications based on a persons height, wrist-to-floor measurements. 

In summary, I think static fitting may promote fundamentally sound address position and swing while dynamic fitting

may promote swing faults.

Please reply to this thread with your thoughts, thanks.

Prior to my joining MGS a couple years ago, I shared your sediments about club fitting.  I think part of this was due to my frugalness and my thought that newer technology clubs wouldn't offer any appreciable advantage over my PE2's; which I'd been playing for 30+ years.  While I still fall squarely into the "it's the archer not the arrows" camp, I now have first hand experience that new technology clubs, and using state of art fitting equipment/methods, are of value - for all player levels. 

I kind of get your point about fittings just fitting clubs to less than perfect swing mechanics.  So let's qualify the discussion by leaving out people with little or no experience and who arguably should be on a range and not the golf course (I know, I know, that sounds terrible).  But, if you think about it, we see all kinds of various swing mechanics amongst the pro tours.  I suspect the clubs that fit Jim Furyk's swing wouldn't be all that great for Adam Scott.  There are far more less than perfect swings in the golfing community than there are perfect ones.  Some of this is physical limitations, some by design.  Further, most all of us that are wanting scoring improvement are constantly making minor adjustments - and that does not require different clubs.

It is my belief that fitting clubs to fit the player, dynamically, makes perfect sense, and I will go further in saying one does a disservice to him/herself by not choosing to make that investment.

Edit:  I just noticed this thread predates my joining MGS.  What's the forum penalty for digging up graves? 

[Titleist81 3]

Bottom line

For Amateurs and weekend warriors fitting is most definitely needed.

I guarantee if a Pro picked up a “non fitted” club he would get same results as with his fitted gear.

Non professional golfers just don’t have the ability to adapt to any club so they need the club to adapt to them!

simple as that......

Edited March 15, 2021 by Titleist81

[RollingGreens 2,334]

29 minutes ago, Titleist81 said:

Bottom line

For Amateurs and weekend warriors fitting is most definitely needed.

I guarantee if a Pro picked up a “non fitted” club he would get same results as with his fitted gear.

Non professional golfers just don’t have the ability to adapt to any club so they need the club to adapt to them!

simple as that......

I don’t believe that pros at all would get the same results with Non fitted gear.  Their is a reason their are tour trucks at every tournament. They weight of each club or driver is specific, down to the tenth of a gram. They would be better than most with non fitted gear because of their skill level alone. Pros are more paranoid than anyone about their equipment and all the fine details need to be managed

[tchat07 1,856]

I would say a "good" fitting is not overrated for most players. I think it's a quality piece, a good fitter will do what they can to give the player the best chance at success. I had a fitter tell me they could jack up the lie on my club in order to help my direction but said it would be better for me to fix my swing and just stick with the standard lie. Hard truth but very accurate.

Sent from my SM-G950U using MyGolfSpy mobile app

[McGolf 516]

I've watched this thread with interest as one might understand.

Lets start with a bit of common ground. The one absolute is when the ball is in the cup the hole is over.

That's about it. We all have different golfing needs, have different physical and mental attributes and experiences which makes up why golf is so fantastic, there is far more than one  way to get the ball into the cup.

Much like there are good and bad teaching professionals there are good and bad fitters. Just as there are different swing methods there are different fitting methods and as posted, having the best gear doesn't always equate to the best experience. Then again, those who can use this same stuff can generate results that can be mind boggling.

So, what is a fitting or even a lesson:

1) An educational experience - you as the "fittee" should know what process will be used to come to the conclusions for your final recommendations. Be comfortable with the process. Again, much like swing lesson systems you must be comfortable in the process the professional uses. It should inform your of short comings and positives. Ask questions, why are we doing this or that. Just don't take a club and give it a sworp. 

2) A discussion of your game - Tell the fitter how you play golf, where you play golf, what you want to accomplish during the fitting. Discuss good shots and bad ones. One great hit does not conclude the fitting. A series of good to great shots is more of an affirmation of the process. Let the fitter know what you feel when a club is handed to you. Let them know if you feel it was a quality shot ,, or not. It is at this point both you are the fitter are finding that "same page" to really get things dialed in. This is where you discuss swing faults possible corrections or the identification of the fault and if you intend to try a correction. What fits your eye, what you want.

3) Testing - Going through the process to find proper specifications for YOU, then put together clubs based on the findings, hit some balls look at numbers, give feed back, make sure you have a good average not just one bomb or one duffed shot. No, you will not hit every shaft or head in the house. You paid for expertise in this area not the time to hit everything on the wall and see what falls out. Personally, Dynamic testing is the way to get results. Static measurement might get you started but if you don't swing you don't know.  Don't machine gun swings, take your time as you would on the course.

4) A final result/ recommendation - Once you have talked about your game, did testing to determine the proper specs of your gear, discusses where you play, how you play and your goals. The final piece will be the final selection of the gear. keep in mind the fitter will be proficient in a select number of heads, shafts, grips etc. Test the combinations to see if the new gear produces the results you are looking to accomplish. There may be need for tweaking stuff but that's the fun of the fitting. If you are not comfortable with the companies provided you can always ask about the company you are interested in and get educated information. Get an email or hard copy of your results and recommendations. This should at minimum have the all the specs, length, loft, lie, flex, head, shaft, grip and size etc. As a bonus maybe a golf ball that will work for you. Finally maybe some swing things to consider. just a good fitting should take into account your swing.

You have no obligation to purchase golf gear from the fitter but it is nice to support them if the job they performed was to your liking. 

What is not a fitting:

1) It is not a demo day, it is not a "swing this and see what a computer spits out", it is not an open bay to hit the latest releases to compare your gear to. Although fun,,, not a fitting.

 

[cnosil 25,165]

I've watched this thread with interest as one might understand.
Lets start with a bit of common ground. The one absolute is when the ball is in the cup the hole is over.
That's about it. We all have different golfing needs, have different physical and mental attributes and experiences which makes up why golf is so fantastic, there is far more than one  way to get the ball into the cup.
Much like there are good and bad teaching professionals there are good and bad fitters. Just as there are different swing methods there are different fitting methods and as posted, having the best gear doesn't always equate to the best experience. Then again, those who can use this same stuff can generate results that can be mind boggling.
So, what is a fitting or even a lesson:
1) An educational experience - you as the "fittee" should know what process will be used to come to the conclusions for your final recommendations. Be comfortable with the process. Again, much like swing lesson systems you must be comfortable in the process the professional uses. It should inform your of short comings and positives. Ask questions, why are we doing this or that. Just don't take a club and give it a sworp. 
2) A discussion of your game - Tell the fitter how you play golf, where you play golf, what you want to accomplish during the fitting. Discuss good shots and bad ones. One great hit does not conclude the fitting. A series of good to great shots is more of an affirmation of the process. Let the fitter know what you feel when a club is handed to you. Let them know if you feel it was a quality shot ,, or not. It is at this point both you are the fitter are finding that "same page" to really get things dialed in. This is where you discuss swing faults possible corrections or the identification of the fault and if you intend to try a correction. What fits your eye, what you want.
3) Testing - Going through the process to find proper specifications for YOU, then put together clubs based on the findings, hit some balls look at numbers, give feed back, make sure you have a good average not just one bomb or one duffed shot. No, you will not hit every shaft or head in the house. You paid for expertise in this area not the time to hit everything on the wall and see what falls out. Personally, Dynamic testing is the way to get results. Static measurement might get you started but if you don't swing you don't know.  Don't machine gun swings, take your time as you would on the course.
4) A final result/ recommendation - Once you have talked about your game, did testing to determine the proper specs of your gear, discusses where you play, how you play and your goals. The final piece will be the final selection of the gear. keep in mind the fitter will be proficient in a select number of heads, shafts, grips etc. Test the combinations to see if the new gear produces the results you are looking to accomplish. There may be need for tweaking stuff but that's the fun of the fitting. If you are not comfortable with the companies provided you can always ask about the company you are interested in and get educated information. Get an email or hard copy of your results and recommendations. This should at minimum have the all the specs, length, loft, lie, flex, head, shaft, grip and size etc. As a bonus maybe a golf ball that will work for you. Finally maybe some swing things to consider. just a good fitting should take into account your swing.
You have no obligation to purchase golf gear from the fitter but it is nice to support them if the job they performed was to your liking. 
What is not a fitting:
1) It is not a demo day, it is not a "swing this and see what a computer spits out", it is not an open bay to hit the latest releases to compare your gear to. Although fun,,, not a fitting.
 

Great stuff in this post!