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2018 Official Forum Member Review - Cleveland Launcher HB Drivers


hckymeyer

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Breaking this out from the formal Stage 2 review, as it's sorta but not directly tied up in the clubhead-specific performance.
___________________________________________


Lead-In to Stage 2 Review – Selecting a Shaft.


Step 1:
Upon learning the testers/reviewers had our choice of any upgrade shaft in the Custom Catalog (https://www.clevelandgolf.com/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-Cleveland-Library/default/dw48f95686/pdf/2017-2018-Cleveland-Golf-Custom-Catalog.pdf) … open it up to find, well, there are about 175 choices in there…

..but I noticed most of those are S or X flex - and I'm pretty much a “Regular” ;-) guy - so I filtered it down to this list (grouped by “Trajectory” then sorted by “Weight”)…

selected_shafts_chart.jpg

The stock shaft is a Miyazaki CKUA 50 (outlined in the solid box in “Mid-High” Launch).

The two dashed boxes indicate potential candidates IF I were to pick a shaft on my own – based off the Kuro Kage Silver TiNi (middle of “Low-Mid” Trajectory group) which also happens to be in my Bertha Mini.


I'd estimate with a driver I'd want a “Mid”, or possibly “Mid-High”, trajectory shaft – and possibly one a bit lighter than the Silver TiNi, so maybe around 60 grams. The Tensei CK Pro Blue caught my eye; looking at the product page (http://www.mca-golf.com/products/ck-pro-blue-2) it sounded pretty good, BUT … I knew I needed a pro's guidance here.


Step 2:
Call Club Champion where I've been for an iron fitting, but … they do not carry the Cleveland driver. Call another reputable fitter but they don't stock the Cleveland driver, either…

So off through LI traffic for about 50+ minutes to a PGA Tour Super Store – where they do have the Launcher HB driver, but only in the stock configuration. Run in, find a few sitting in a staff bag, grab a 10.5 R, jump into an unused hitting bay and take a few hacky swings…


PGATSS_LM.jpg

…to yield a few very UN-impressive results.
(That “Player 2” distance is NOT mine!)

The peak height is not shown but I had the feeling it was pretty high – not quite a blooper/skyball but higher than may be optimal for my moderate swing speed.

So based on that extensive ;-) testing I deduced I probably didn't need a “Mid-High” launch shaft paired with the high-launching head.


Step 3:
Thanks to an excellent suggestion from Golf Spies Rob and STUDque, I called Club Champion back .. got someone very helpful .. and arranged a fitting for whatever they had that would be close to the Cleveland head and shafts.

Note: despite what I said earlier about self-selecting a shaft, I went in with the commitment to go with the fitter's recommendation.

We started with what the fitter said was the “functional equivalent” to the stock shaft, on a Srixon 355 head (which he said was “close enough” as it used all the same materials and “not dissimilar” construction).

We worked through a series of shafts – including the Tensei CK Pro Blue (which I did like the feel and response of) – basically looking to minimize dispersion and maximize smash factor (or what the fitter termed “efficiency”)…

ClubChamp_TrackManScreenshot.jpg

…to end up with literally the last thing I would've picked on my own – it's “Low” trajectory, low spin, the lowest torque (2.9 compared to an average of 4.2 for all others in my “R” flex list above) and the heaviest – the HZRDUS Yellow 75!

Yes, it did feel stiff and “boardy” to me …

  • Shaft Torque: Club Champion defines torque as “The amount of resistance to twisting … the lower the torque … will make the shaft feel stiffer.”
  • Project X 5.5 flex: from the PX FAQ, “HZRDUS shafts are stiffer to stated flex”

We then tried a shorter HZRDUS Yellow … -1” at 44.5” – shown in red at the bottom of the TrackMan output above – which yielded the best LM results of the day and is what I requested from Cleveland.


Notes:

  • HZRDUS Yellow product description:

“HZRDUS is designed to deliver insane distance to the new stronger and more aggressive golfer^, without sacrificing distance and control.”

^ ..doesn't really sound like me…


“The new HZRDUS Yellow is a backweighted low spinning shaft featuring a straight tapered midsection. This profile is perfect for players with a smooth tempo^ who want to reduce launch and spin rates. The backweighting allows for additional mass to be added to the head^^ for increased ballspeed.”

^ ..doesn't really sound like me…

^^ ..may have to try that (with some lead tape) in the range test


In fact, looking at the PX product pages, if I were self-selecting a HZRDUS … I'd lean towards the Red 65 … or more likely go with the EvenFlow Blue…

  • Swing Speed on the LM: stoopitly the day before the fitting I'd strained some muscles across my left hip / upper thigh … the same place where I was almost recovered from hip replacement surgery… D'OH!!! So I was trying to swing a bit easier and the 85ish SS .. slowed down from an initial 88.9 .. is at the end of an hour and a half of driver swings. I'll also use that as a lame (ha ha) excuse for the right-tending groupings, as I didn't fully turn through the ball…
  • Other LM launch parameters: in a happy, and very unexpected, surprise the fitter said .. excluding the obvious mis-hits .. that my swings were pretty consistent throughout the fitting. He showed me a graphic portraying a theoretical launch “envelope” – calculated off of swing speed – and the average of my drives was right in the middle of the high/low bounds of that envelope ….. huh!!!
    (so maybe there's still some hope for me… ;-) ...)

WITB of an "aspiring"  😉 play-ah ...
Driver...Callaway Paradym (Aldila Ascent PL Blue 40/A)
5W...Callaway Great Big Bertha (MCA Kai'Li Red 50/R)
7W...Tour Edge Exotics EXS (Tensei CK Blue 50/R)

4H...Callaway Epic Super Hybrid (Recoil ZT9 F3)
5H...Callaway Big Bertha ('19) (Recoil 460 ESX F3)
6i-GW...Sub 70 699 V2 (Recoil 660 F3) 
54°, 60°...Cleveland CBX2, CBX 60 (Rotex graphite)
Putter...Ev
nRoll ER5 or MLA Tour XDream (P2 Reflex grip on both)
...all in a Datrek bag on an MGI Zip Navigator electric cart. Ball often, not always, MaxFli Tour.

Forum Member tester for the Paradym X driver (2023)
Forum Member tester for the ExPutt Putting Simulator (2020)

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Breaking this out from the formal Stage 2 review, as it's sorta but not directly tied up in the clubhead-specific performance.

___________________________________________

 

 

Lead-In to Stage 2 Review – Selecting a Shaft.

 

 

Step 1:

Upon learning the testers/reviewers had our choice of any upgrade shaft in the Custom Catalog (https://www.clevelandgolf.com/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-Cleveland-Library/default/dw48f95686/pdf/2017-2018-Cleveland-Golf-Custom-Catalog.pdf) … open it up to find, well, there are about 175 choices in there…

 

..but I noticed most of those are S or X flex - and I'm pretty much a “Regular” ;-) guy - so I filtered it down to this list (grouped by “Trajectory” then sorted by “Weight”)…

 

attachicon.gifselected_shafts_chart.jpg

 

The stock shaft is a Miyazaki CKUA 50 (outlined in the solid box in “Mid-High” Launch).

 

The two dashed boxes indicate potential candidates IF I were to pick a shaft on my own – based off the Kuro Kage Silver TiNi (middle of “Low-Mid” Trajectory group) which also happens to be in my Bertha Mini.

 

 

I'd estimate with a driver I'd want a “Mid”, or possibly “Mid-High”, trajectory shaft – and possibly one a bit lighter than the Silver TiNi, so maybe around 60 grams. The Tensei CK Pro Blue caught my eye; looking at the product page (http://www.mca-golf.com/products/ck-pro-blue-2) it sounded pretty good, BUT … I knew I needed a pro's guidance here.

 

 

Step 2:

Call Club Champion where I've been for an iron fitting, but … they do not carry the Cleveland driver. Call another reputable fitter but they don't stock the Cleveland driver, either…

 

So off through LI traffic for about 50+ minutes to a PGA Tour Super Store – where they do have the Launcher HB driver, but only in the stock configuration. Run in, find a few sitting in a staff bag, grab a 10.5 R, jump into an unused hitting bay and take a few hacky swings…

 

 

attachicon.gifPGATSS_LM.jpg

 

…to yield a few very UN-impressive results.

(That “Player 2” distance is NOT mine!)

 

The peak height is not shown but I had the feeling it was pretty high – not quite a blooper/skyball but higher than may be optimal for my moderate swing speed.

 

So based on that extensive ;-) testing I deduced I probably didn't need a “Mid-High” launch shaft paired with the high-launching head.

Step 3:

Thanks to an excellent suggestion from Golf Spies Rob and STUDque, I called Club Champion back .. got someone very helpful .. and arranged a fitting for whatever they had that would be close to the Cleveland head and shafts.

 

Note: despite what I said earlier about self-selecting a shaft, I went in with the commitment to go with the fitter's recommendation.

 

We started with what the fitter said was the “functional equivalent” to the stock shaft, on a Srixon 355 head (which he said was “close enough” as it used all the same materials and “not dissimilar” construction).

 

We worked through a series of shafts – including the Tensei CK Pro Blue (which I did like the feel and response of) – basically looking to minimize dispersion and maximize smash factor (or what the fitter termed “efficiency”)…

 

attachicon.gifClubChamp_TrackManScreenshot.jpg

 

…to end up with literally the last thing I would've picked on my own – it's “Low” trajectory, low spin, the lowest torque (2.9 compared to an average of 4.2 for all others in my “R” flex list above) and the heaviest – the HZRDUS Yellow 75!

 

Yes, it did feel stiff and “boardy” to me …

  • Shaft Torque: Club Champion defines torque as “The amount of resistance to twisting … the lower the torque … will make the shaft feel stiffer.”
  • Project X 5.5 flex: from the PX FAQ, “HZRDUS shafts are stiffer to stated flex”

We then tried a shorter HZRDUS Yellow … -1” at 44.5” – shown in red at the bottom of the TrackMan output above – which yielded the best LM results of the day and is what I requested from Cleveland.

 

 

Notes:

  • HZRDUS Yellow product description:

“HZRDUS is designed to deliver insane distance to the new stronger and more aggressive golfer^, without sacrificing distance and control.”

^ ..doesn't really sound like me…

“The new HZRDUS Yellow is a backweighted low spinning shaft featuring a straight tapered midsection. This profile is perfect for players with a smooth tempo^ who want to reduce launch and spin rates. The backweighting allows for additional mass to be added to the head^^ for increased ballspeed.”

^ ..doesn't really sound like me…

^^ ..may have to try that (with some lead tape) in the range test

In fact, looking at the PX product pages, if I were self-selecting a HZRDUS … I'd lean towards the Red 65 … or more likely go with the EvenFlow Blue…

  • Swing Speed on the LM: stoopitly the day before the fitting I'd strained some muscles across my left hip / upper thigh … the same place where I was almost recovered from hip replacement surgery… D'OH!!! So I was trying to swing a bit easier and the 85ish SS .. slowed down from an initial 88.9 .. is at the end of an hour and a half of driver swings. I'll also use that as a lame (ha ha) excuse for the right-tending groupings, as I didn't fully turn through the ball…
  • Other LM launch parameters: in a happy, and very unexpected, surprise the fitter said .. excluding the obvious mis-hits .. that my swings were pretty consistent throughout the fitting. He showed me a graphic portraying a theoretical launch “envelope” – calculated off of swing speed – and the average of my drives was right in the middle of the high/low bounds of that envelope ….. huh!!!

    (so maybe there's still some hope for me… J )

Awesome write up!!!

 

Sent from my Pixel using MyGolfSpy mobile app

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Awesome write up!!!

 

Sent from my Pixel using MyGolfSpy mobile app

Thx!!!

 

Still a bit unsure of this shaft for me, honestly, but second range sesh yesterday showed some good improvement.

WITB of an "aspiring"  😉 play-ah ...
Driver...Callaway Paradym (Aldila Ascent PL Blue 40/A)
5W...Callaway Great Big Bertha (MCA Kai'Li Red 50/R)
7W...Tour Edge Exotics EXS (Tensei CK Blue 50/R)

4H...Callaway Epic Super Hybrid (Recoil ZT9 F3)
5H...Callaway Big Bertha ('19) (Recoil 460 ESX F3)
6i-GW...Sub 70 699 V2 (Recoil 660 F3) 
54°, 60°...Cleveland CBX2, CBX 60 (Rotex graphite)
Putter...Ev
nRoll ER5 or MLA Tour XDream (P2 Reflex grip on both)
...all in a Datrek bag on an MGI Zip Navigator electric cart. Ball often, not always, MaxFli Tour.

Forum Member tester for the Paradym X driver (2023)
Forum Member tester for the ExPutt Putting Simulator (2020)

followthrough.jpg

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Thx!!!

 

Still a bit unsure of this shaft for me, honestly, but second range sesh yesterday showed some good improvement.

Like new shoes, lil break in and it'll be solid.

Good luck

 

 

Tazz

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

         Grip n Rip it

Chicks dig the LONG ball

In my :callaway-small: staff bag

:cobra-small: King F7+ Mitsubishi Tensei CK Pro White 60 - Graphite Tour X-Stiff

:755178188_TourEdge:  CBX 13.5 3 Wood

:1332069271_TommyArmour:  Atomic Irons 4-AW (reviewing)

:cleveland-small: CG16 Satin 52*

:cleveland-small: 588 RTX 2.0 56* and 60*

Sentio Sierra 101-M Putter

 

Proud tester of the Tommy Armour ATOMIC Irons 

 

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Thx!!!

 

Still a bit unsure of this shaft for me, honestly, but second range sesh yesterday showed some good improvement.

I'm sure you will get it. I wish this rain would let up. I feel bad I haven't had much time with the driver. I was hoping to provide a mid month follow up for you all.

 

Sent from my Pixel using MyGolfSpy mobile app

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"We then tried a shorter HZRDUS Yellow … -1” at 44.5” – shown in red at the bottom of the TrackMan output above – which yielded the best LM results of the day and is what I requested from Cleveland."

 

Is your driver from Cleveland going to maintain the factory specs with the shorter shaft?

 

 

Enjoyed your writeup on the shaft selection process!

Ping G430 Max Driver 10.5 Degree
Titleist TSR1 4, 5, & 6 Hybrids 
Titleist T350 Irons 7 - W48 
Cleveland
CBX ZipCore  52 56 & 60 Degree Wedges

LAB Mezz Max Broomstick Putter / TPT Shaft  (Platinum @ 45/78)

 

 

 

 



 

 

 

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Like new shoes, lil break in and it'll be solid.

Good luck

 

 

Tazz

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Thx, Tazz! Gonna be working on it!

(..just hope it doesn't get that old sneaker stink! )

WITB of an "aspiring"  😉 play-ah ...
Driver...Callaway Paradym (Aldila Ascent PL Blue 40/A)
5W...Callaway Great Big Bertha (MCA Kai'Li Red 50/R)
7W...Tour Edge Exotics EXS (Tensei CK Blue 50/R)

4H...Callaway Epic Super Hybrid (Recoil ZT9 F3)
5H...Callaway Big Bertha ('19) (Recoil 460 ESX F3)
6i-GW...Sub 70 699 V2 (Recoil 660 F3) 
54°, 60°...Cleveland CBX2, CBX 60 (Rotex graphite)
Putter...Ev
nRoll ER5 or MLA Tour XDream (P2 Reflex grip on both)
...all in a Datrek bag on an MGI Zip Navigator electric cart. Ball often, not always, MaxFli Tour.

Forum Member tester for the Paradym X driver (2023)
Forum Member tester for the ExPutt Putting Simulator (2020)

followthrough.jpg

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"We then tried a shorter HZRDUS Yellow … -1” at 44.5” – shown in red at the bottom of the TrackMan output above – which yielded the best LM results of the day and is what I requested from Cleveland."

 

Is your driver from Cleveland going to maintain the factory specs with the shorter shaft?

 

 

Enjoyed your writeup on the shaft selection process!

Thank you, Sir! And, yes - haven't double-checked it, tho, but the build sheet did say -1” and swing weight "standard" (but am currently experimenting with a small .. 2g .. piece of lead tape in different spots).

WITB of an "aspiring"  😉 play-ah ...
Driver...Callaway Paradym (Aldila Ascent PL Blue 40/A)
5W...Callaway Great Big Bertha (MCA Kai'Li Red 50/R)
7W...Tour Edge Exotics EXS (Tensei CK Blue 50/R)

4H...Callaway Epic Super Hybrid (Recoil ZT9 F3)
5H...Callaway Big Bertha ('19) (Recoil 460 ESX F3)
6i-GW...Sub 70 699 V2 (Recoil 660 F3) 
54°, 60°...Cleveland CBX2, CBX 60 (Rotex graphite)
Putter...Ev
nRoll ER5 or MLA Tour XDream (P2 Reflex grip on both)
...all in a Datrek bag on an MGI Zip Navigator electric cart. Ball often, not always, MaxFli Tour.

Forum Member tester for the Paradym X driver (2023)
Forum Member tester for the ExPutt Putting Simulator (2020)

followthrough.jpg

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Very nice so far guys. Good read getting to know your games and what the HB might do for you.

 

Keep it up!

 

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

WITB:

Stan Thompson “Reactionizer” persimmon woods 1-4

Spalding Tour Edition 3-PW

Spalding Top-Flite E.V.A. Sand Club

Rife Legend Z Putter

 

 

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Very nice so far guys. Good read getting to know your games and what the HB might do for you.

 

Keep it up!

 

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

Thx! Working working working on my driver swing. Can't claim this is an instant-fix magic wand cure-all for me but I do feel like it's helping me get the ball out there.

WITB of an "aspiring"  😉 play-ah ...
Driver...Callaway Paradym (Aldila Ascent PL Blue 40/A)
5W...Callaway Great Big Bertha (MCA Kai'Li Red 50/R)
7W...Tour Edge Exotics EXS (Tensei CK Blue 50/R)

4H...Callaway Epic Super Hybrid (Recoil ZT9 F3)
5H...Callaway Big Bertha ('19) (Recoil 460 ESX F3)
6i-GW...Sub 70 699 V2 (Recoil 660 F3) 
54°, 60°...Cleveland CBX2, CBX 60 (Rotex graphite)
Putter...Ev
nRoll ER5 or MLA Tour XDream (P2 Reflex grip on both)
...all in a Datrek bag on an MGI Zip Navigator electric cart. Ball often, not always, MaxFli Tour.

Forum Member tester for the Paradym X driver (2023)
Forum Member tester for the ExPutt Putting Simulator (2020)

followthrough.jpg

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"We then tried a shorter HZRDUS Yellow … -1” at 44.5” – shown in red at the bottom of the TrackMan output above – which yielded the best LM results of the day and is what I requested from Cleveland."

 

Is your driver from Cleveland going to maintain the factory specs with the shorter shaft?

 

 

Enjoyed your writeup on the shaft selection process!

Ya know.... You got me thinking more about this - I don't have a swing weight scale, so didn't check it, but now I'm not sure if they just took a "standard" weight head and attached it to the shorter shaft vs if they did rebalance the whole club to the stated SW...???

 

The result of the shaft fitting - with a heavy shaft on a relatively light head - had me curious.... So now I'm going back to the range to experiment with bits of lead tape...

WITB of an "aspiring"  😉 play-ah ...
Driver...Callaway Paradym (Aldila Ascent PL Blue 40/A)
5W...Callaway Great Big Bertha (MCA Kai'Li Red 50/R)
7W...Tour Edge Exotics EXS (Tensei CK Blue 50/R)

4H...Callaway Epic Super Hybrid (Recoil ZT9 F3)
5H...Callaway Big Bertha ('19) (Recoil 460 ESX F3)
6i-GW...Sub 70 699 V2 (Recoil 660 F3) 
54°, 60°...Cleveland CBX2, CBX 60 (Rotex graphite)
Putter...Ev
nRoll ER5 or MLA Tour XDream (P2 Reflex grip on both)
...all in a Datrek bag on an MGI Zip Navigator electric cart. Ball often, not always, MaxFli Tour.

Forum Member tester for the Paradym X driver (2023)
Forum Member tester for the ExPutt Putting Simulator (2020)

followthrough.jpg

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Ya know.... You got me thinking more about this - I don't have a swing weight scale, so didn't check it, but now I'm not sure if they just took a "standard" weight head and attached it to the shorter shaft vs if they did rebalance the whole club to the stated SW...???

 

The result of the shaft fitting - with a heavy shaft on a relatively light head - had me curious.... So now I'm going back to the range to experiment with bits of lead tape...

 

Yea for me anytime I had a shaft cut down, I had to have the head weighted (swing weight) to close as possible to factory spec.  Some people say they play the driver as if without adding weight but I prefer to have it up to specs. 

Ping G430 Max Driver 10.5 Degree
Titleist TSR1 4, 5, & 6 Hybrids 
Titleist T350 Irons 7 - W48 
Cleveland
CBX ZipCore  52 56 & 60 Degree Wedges

LAB Mezz Max Broomstick Putter / TPT Shaft  (Platinum @ 45/78)

 

 

 

 



 

 

 

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Thx! Working working working on my driver swing. Can't claim this is an instant-fix magic wand cure-all for me but I do feel like it's helping me get the ball out there.

That's good to hear. Sometimes a club that can help us when the swing has gone south is more beneficial than a long bomber.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

In my  :wilson_staff_small:  carry bag:
:mizuno-small: ST-X 10.5* Kai'li Blue R Flex
:mizuno-small: ST-Z 15* Kai/li Blue R Flex
:mizuno-small: ST-Z 4h Linq Blue R Flex
:cleveland-small: Launcher 5h
:cleveland-small: Launcher CBX 6i-PW
:cleveland-small: CBX 54* & 58*
:cleveland-small: Huntington Beach #10
:bridgestone-small: e12 Contact
CURRENTLY TESTING - Mizuno Long Game

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Ya know.... You got me thinking more about this - I don't have a swing weight scale, so didn't check it, but now I'm not sure if they just took a "standard" weight head and attached it to the shorter shaft vs if they did rebalance the whole club to the stated SW...???

 

The result of the shaft fitting - with a heavy shaft on a relatively light head - had me curious.... So now I'm going back to the range to experiment with bits of lead tape...

Yea for me anytime I had a shaft cut down, I had to have the head weighted (swing weight) to close as possible to factory spec. Some people say they play the driver as if without adding weight but I prefer to have it up to specs.

OG. I assume you mean cut down after the fact, not on custom orders from the factory.

 

FWIW. I know for a fact (at least as of a couple years ago) Cleveland hand picks heads to maintain the same swingweight when altering shaft length + or -

 

I see no reason why they would have changed that practice.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

:ping-small: G430 Max 10K 

:titelist-small: TSiR1 15.0 Aldlia Ascent 60g

:titelist-small: TSR2 18.0 PX Aldila Ascent 6og

:titelist-small: TSi1 20 Aldila Ascent Shafts R

:titelist-small: T350 5-GW SteelFiber I80 

:titelist-small: SM10 48F/54M and58K

:ping-small: S159 48S/52S/56W/60B

:scotty-cameron-1: Select 5.5 Flowback 35" 

:titelist-small: ProV1  Play number 12

 

 

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OG. I assume you mean cut down after the fact, not on custom orders from the factory.

 

FWIW. I know for a fact (at least as of a couple years ago) Cleveland hand picks heads to maintain the same swingweight when altering shaft length + or -

 

I see no reason why they would have changed that practice.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

 

 

Yep that's what I meant and that's cool it's ready to go right out of the box.

Ping G430 Max Driver 10.5 Degree
Titleist TSR1 4, 5, & 6 Hybrids 
Titleist T350 Irons 7 - W48 
Cleveland
CBX ZipCore  52 56 & 60 Degree Wedges

LAB Mezz Max Broomstick Putter / TPT Shaft  (Platinum @ 45/78)

 

 

 

 



 

 

 

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I think it's cool to see the PX yellow in this mix. If there was ever a reason to validate a true fitting and hands on experience, this is it. The shaft is the engine. Great stuff so far!!

 

And to the PX HZRDUS line playing firmer than stated, I'll attest to that being spot on.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

  • Titleist TSi3 Fujikura Speeder NX Blue 60X
  • TaylorMade SIM2 3 wood Fujilkura Ventus Blue 7-X
  • Titleist U505 2 Tensei 1K Black 85 X
  • Titleist T100 4-P Nippon Modus 3 120X
  • PING S159 50-S 55-H 59-T DG X100
  • Vokey SM8 50, SM9 54 & 60  Nippon Modus 3 120s
  • L.A.B. MEZZ Max Broom Accra 47" 79.5*
  • Srixon Z-Star XV 

Currently testing the 2024 PING S159 wedges…

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/63483-testers-announced-ping-s159-wedges/

Was testing, still loving the 2023 Titleist T100 Irons 4-P

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/60456-titleist-t-series-irons-2023-forum-review/

 

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OG. I assume you mean cut down after the fact, not on custom orders from the factory.

 

FWIW. I know for a fact (at least as of a couple years ago) Cleveland hand picks heads to maintain the same swingweight when altering shaft length + or -

 

I see no reason why they would have changed that practice.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Ahhh, good to know .. thx for that!

WITB of an "aspiring"  😉 play-ah ...
Driver...Callaway Paradym (Aldila Ascent PL Blue 40/A)
5W...Callaway Great Big Bertha (MCA Kai'Li Red 50/R)
7W...Tour Edge Exotics EXS (Tensei CK Blue 50/R)

4H...Callaway Epic Super Hybrid (Recoil ZT9 F3)
5H...Callaway Big Bertha ('19) (Recoil 460 ESX F3)
6i-GW...Sub 70 699 V2 (Recoil 660 F3) 
54°, 60°...Cleveland CBX2, CBX 60 (Rotex graphite)
Putter...Ev
nRoll ER5 or MLA Tour XDream (P2 Reflex grip on both)
...all in a Datrek bag on an MGI Zip Navigator electric cart. Ball often, not always, MaxFli Tour.

Forum Member tester for the Paradym X driver (2023)
Forum Member tester for the ExPutt Putting Simulator (2020)

followthrough.jpg

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That's good to hear. Sometimes a club that can help us when the swing has gone south is more beneficial than a long bomber.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Thx for that encouragement, but the truth is my driver swing has never been anywhere near "north"...! Have taken a few lessons this spring working on the full swing, with the last lesson focused on trying to get some kind of a driver swing going. Definitely helped, and each range session since is showing improvement.

WITB of an "aspiring"  😉 play-ah ...
Driver...Callaway Paradym (Aldila Ascent PL Blue 40/A)
5W...Callaway Great Big Bertha (MCA Kai'Li Red 50/R)
7W...Tour Edge Exotics EXS (Tensei CK Blue 50/R)

4H...Callaway Epic Super Hybrid (Recoil ZT9 F3)
5H...Callaway Big Bertha ('19) (Recoil 460 ESX F3)
6i-GW...Sub 70 699 V2 (Recoil 660 F3) 
54°, 60°...Cleveland CBX2, CBX 60 (Rotex graphite)
Putter...Ev
nRoll ER5 or MLA Tour XDream (P2 Reflex grip on both)
...all in a Datrek bag on an MGI Zip Navigator electric cart. Ball often, not always, MaxFli Tour.

Forum Member tester for the Paradym X driver (2023)
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I think it's cool to see the PX yellow in this mix. If there was ever a reason to validate a true fitting and hands on experience, this is it. The shaft is the engine. Great stuff so far!!

 

And to the PX HZRDUS line playing firmer than stated, I'll attest to that being spot on.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Still not completely convinced this is really the right shaft for me .. especially at 75 grams. But if it does help me build a better driver swing (eg. in the fairway more often) ... I'm in!

 

And I'm also learning the truth in the statement: "the shaft is the engine".

(Which has me wondering if my review is going to be more about the shaft vs the actual clubhead?)

WITB of an "aspiring"  😉 play-ah ...
Driver...Callaway Paradym (Aldila Ascent PL Blue 40/A)
5W...Callaway Great Big Bertha (MCA Kai'Li Red 50/R)
7W...Tour Edge Exotics EXS (Tensei CK Blue 50/R)

4H...Callaway Epic Super Hybrid (Recoil ZT9 F3)
5H...Callaway Big Bertha ('19) (Recoil 460 ESX F3)
6i-GW...Sub 70 699 V2 (Recoil 660 F3) 
54°, 60°...Cleveland CBX2, CBX 60 (Rotex graphite)
Putter...Ev
nRoll ER5 or MLA Tour XDream (P2 Reflex grip on both)
...all in a Datrek bag on an MGI Zip Navigator electric cart. Ball often, not always, MaxFli Tour.

Forum Member tester for the Paradym X driver (2023)
Forum Member tester for the ExPutt Putting Simulator (2020)

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Still not completely convinced this is really the right shaft for me .. especially at 75 grams. But if it does help me build a better driver swing (eg. in the fairway more often) ... I'm in!

 

And I'm also learning the truth in the statement: "the shaft is the engine".

(Which has me wondering if my review is going to be more about the shaft vs the actual clubhead?)

I am not going to go critical, negative or try to convince you you're biting off more than you can chew.

 

I went back to your swing video in Stage 1 and you have a VERY solid foundation and a really nice swing. There is a higher likelihood of progression rather than regression based upon that clip.

 

Smart move going with a shorter shaft; with some fine tuning and some instruction I think you'll find a way to make this club play very well for you.

 

I'm looking forward to reading about your progress.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

  • Titleist TSi3 Fujikura Speeder NX Blue 60X
  • TaylorMade SIM2 3 wood Fujilkura Ventus Blue 7-X
  • Titleist U505 2 Tensei 1K Black 85 X
  • Titleist T100 4-P Nippon Modus 3 120X
  • PING S159 50-S 55-H 59-T DG X100
  • Vokey SM8 50, SM9 54 & 60  Nippon Modus 3 120s
  • L.A.B. MEZZ Max Broom Accra 47" 79.5*
  • Srixon Z-Star XV 

Currently testing the 2024 PING S159 wedges…

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/63483-testers-announced-ping-s159-wedges/

Was testing, still loving the 2023 Titleist T100 Irons 4-P

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/60456-titleist-t-series-irons-2023-forum-review/

 

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I am not going to go critical, negative or try to convince you you're biting off more than you can chew.

 

I went back to your swing video in Stage 1 and you have a VERY solid foundation and a really nice swing. There is a higher likelihood of progression rather than regression based upon that clip.

 

Smart move going with a shorter shaft; with some fine tuning and some instruction I think you'll find a way to make this club play very well for you.

 

I'm looking forward to reading about your progress.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Thank you! Appreciate the encouragement!

WITB of an "aspiring"  😉 play-ah ...
Driver...Callaway Paradym (Aldila Ascent PL Blue 40/A)
5W...Callaway Great Big Bertha (MCA Kai'Li Red 50/R)
7W...Tour Edge Exotics EXS (Tensei CK Blue 50/R)

4H...Callaway Epic Super Hybrid (Recoil ZT9 F3)
5H...Callaway Big Bertha ('19) (Recoil 460 ESX F3)
6i-GW...Sub 70 699 V2 (Recoil 660 F3) 
54°, 60°...Cleveland CBX2, CBX 60 (Rotex graphite)
Putter...Ev
nRoll ER5 or MLA Tour XDream (P2 Reflex grip on both)
...all in a Datrek bag on an MGI Zip Navigator electric cart. Ball often, not always, MaxFli Tour.

Forum Member tester for the Paradym X driver (2023)
Forum Member tester for the ExPutt Putting Simulator (2020)

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Sorry all for the lack of updates here. This weather in Florida has been nuts. I am hoping to be able to sneak out to the range Sunday if mother nature allows it.

 

Only thing golf related I have been able to do the past two weeks is I bought a dozen golf balls and worked with my orange whip in the garage.

 

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A few range sessions in .. been doing some comparative testing .. starting to warm up to the HZRDUS Yellow....

WITB of an "aspiring"  😉 play-ah ...
Driver...Callaway Paradym (Aldila Ascent PL Blue 40/A)
5W...Callaway Great Big Bertha (MCA Kai'Li Red 50/R)
7W...Tour Edge Exotics EXS (Tensei CK Blue 50/R)

4H...Callaway Epic Super Hybrid (Recoil ZT9 F3)
5H...Callaway Big Bertha ('19) (Recoil 460 ESX F3)
6i-GW...Sub 70 699 V2 (Recoil 660 F3) 
54°, 60°...Cleveland CBX2, CBX 60 (Rotex graphite)
Putter...Ev
nRoll ER5 or MLA Tour XDream (P2 Reflex grip on both)
...all in a Datrek bag on an MGI Zip Navigator electric cart. Ball often, not always, MaxFli Tour.

Forum Member tester for the Paradym X driver (2023)
Forum Member tester for the ExPutt Putting Simulator (2020)

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Got a round in on Saturday morning and hit the range Sunday afternoon. Had some really eye opening swings and feels between my Stock Cobra F6(regular Flex) and the Launcher HB (Tensei Stiff Shaft).

 

It has taken quite a bit of time to get the timing difference down with the Shaft difference. You can really feel the shaft shake after contact on the Regular flex.

 

I have also noticed a pretty significant weight difference between the two. The HB is definitely a heavier head...

 

More to come!

Driver:    :taylormade-small: M4 10.5* / Evenflow Blue 6.0 Stiff / Golf Pride MCC +4 Midsize

Woods: :taylormade-small: M6 3W 15* / Evenflow Blue 6.0 Stiff / Golf Pride MCC +4 Midsize

Hybrid: :taylormade-small: M4 Rescue 19* / KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 85g Stiff / Golf Pride MCC +4 Midsize

Irons:    :srixon-small:  Z585 4-AW / KBS Tour 90 - Regular +1" / Golf Pride MCC +4 Midsize

Wedges:cleveland-small: CBX - 56* & 60* / KBS Hi Rev 2.0 - Regular +1" / Golf Pride MCC +4 Midsize

Putter:   :ping-small: Sigma 2 Tyne 4 Platinum / Superstroke Pistol

Ball:    :taylormade-small: Project a

Bag: :ping-small: Hoofer 14

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"We then tried a shorter HZRDUS Yellow … -1” at 44.5” – shown in red at the bottom of the TrackMan output above – which yielded the best LM results of the day and is what I requested from Cleveland."

 

Is your driver from Cleveland going to maintain the factory specs with the shorter shaft?

 

Enjoyed your writeup on the shaft selection process!

Circling back to that question.....

..and the answer is...

..No...

 

Recently bought a basic balance beam style swing weight scale (to check on things like this).

 

Before I received the scale, though, I had added 2 strips of lead tape to the driver head to get it to where I thought the club felt a little more balanced overall to me, between the heavy shaft and the head.

(Not knowing the actual SW yet.)

 

Put it on the SW scale to find I had adjusted the club to D2 ... peeled the 2 strips off ... ie. so it's the same as delivered from Cleveland ... and re-weighed the club to find ... it's a hair under C9...!

 

The spec for this club states it as D3.

 

 

Oh, PS:

The scale is pretty accurate as I weighed "stock" clubs on it and got the stated spec SW.

WITB of an "aspiring"  😉 play-ah ...
Driver...Callaway Paradym (Aldila Ascent PL Blue 40/A)
5W...Callaway Great Big Bertha (MCA Kai'Li Red 50/R)
7W...Tour Edge Exotics EXS (Tensei CK Blue 50/R)

4H...Callaway Epic Super Hybrid (Recoil ZT9 F3)
5H...Callaway Big Bertha ('19) (Recoil 460 ESX F3)
6i-GW...Sub 70 699 V2 (Recoil 660 F3) 
54°, 60°...Cleveland CBX2, CBX 60 (Rotex graphite)
Putter...Ev
nRoll ER5 or MLA Tour XDream (P2 Reflex grip on both)
...all in a Datrek bag on an MGI Zip Navigator electric cart. Ball often, not always, MaxFli Tour.

Forum Member tester for the Paradym X driver (2023)
Forum Member tester for the ExPutt Putting Simulator (2020)

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Circling back to that question.....

..and the answer is...

..No...

 

Recently bought a basic balance beam style swing weight scale (to check on things like this).

 

Before I received the scale, though, I had added 2 strips of lead tape to the driver head to get it to where I thought the club felt a little more balanced overall to me, between the heavy shaft and the head.

(Not knowing the actual SW yet.)

 

Put it on the SW scale to find I had adjusted the club to D2 ... peeled the 2 strips off ... ie. so it's the same as delivered from Cleveland ... and re-weighed the club to find ... it's a hair under C9...!

 

The spec for this club states it as D3.

 

 

Oh, PS:

The scale is pretty accurate as I weighed "stock" clubs on it and got the stated spec SW.

 

In the past, when I altered the shaft length without bringing the club back up to factory specs, it made a significant difference in the playability of it. 

Ping G430 Max Driver 10.5 Degree
Titleist TSR1 4, 5, & 6 Hybrids 
Titleist T350 Irons 7 - W48 
Cleveland
CBX ZipCore  52 56 & 60 Degree Wedges

LAB Mezz Max Broomstick Putter / TPT Shaft  (Platinum @ 45/78)

 

 

 

 



 

 

 

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In the past, when I altered the shaft length without bringing the club back up to factory specs, it made a significant difference in the playability of it.

Yeah, I'm learning that. 1 SW prob not that big a deal, but 4 SWs..?

WITB of an "aspiring"  😉 play-ah ...
Driver...Callaway Paradym (Aldila Ascent PL Blue 40/A)
5W...Callaway Great Big Bertha (MCA Kai'Li Red 50/R)
7W...Tour Edge Exotics EXS (Tensei CK Blue 50/R)

4H...Callaway Epic Super Hybrid (Recoil ZT9 F3)
5H...Callaway Big Bertha ('19) (Recoil 460 ESX F3)
6i-GW...Sub 70 699 V2 (Recoil 660 F3) 
54°, 60°...Cleveland CBX2, CBX 60 (Rotex graphite)
Putter...Ev
nRoll ER5 or MLA Tour XDream (P2 Reflex grip on both)
...all in a Datrek bag on an MGI Zip Navigator electric cart. Ball often, not always, MaxFli Tour.

Forum Member tester for the Paradym X driver (2023)
Forum Member tester for the ExPutt Putting Simulator (2020)

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Hzrdus yellow is counterbalanced so it's going to lighten the swing weight

Yeah I noticed on the shaft product page they suggest.. "backweighting allows for additional mass to be added to the head for increased ballspeed"

WITB of an "aspiring"  😉 play-ah ...
Driver...Callaway Paradym (Aldila Ascent PL Blue 40/A)
5W...Callaway Great Big Bertha (MCA Kai'Li Red 50/R)
7W...Tour Edge Exotics EXS (Tensei CK Blue 50/R)

4H...Callaway Epic Super Hybrid (Recoil ZT9 F3)
5H...Callaway Big Bertha ('19) (Recoil 460 ESX F3)
6i-GW...Sub 70 699 V2 (Recoil 660 F3) 
54°, 60°...Cleveland CBX2, CBX 60 (Rotex graphite)
Putter...Ev
nRoll ER5 or MLA Tour XDream (P2 Reflex grip on both)
...all in a Datrek bag on an MGI Zip Navigator electric cart. Ball often, not always, MaxFli Tour.

Forum Member tester for the Paradym X driver (2023)
Forum Member tester for the ExPutt Putting Simulator (2020)

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Narrative of testing for the Stage 2 Performance Review.

 

A progress … of sorts … update on how I've been testing the Launcher HB driver so far.

 

 

First Range Test.

Actually my first test, albeit brief, was in a hitting bay inside a big box store with a demo club that had the stock shaft (Miyazaki CKUA 50). I don't have a particularly fast nor powerful swing but this felt a little “noodly”, eg. overly flexy, to me. Hit a few with a “Stiff” – I was testing a Regular – and quickly said no way. Back to the 10.5° Regular and hit them ok-ish but it felt like the ball flight was too high, even though the peak height didn't display in the LM data.

 

So next step was a Club Champion shaft fitting which put me into a HZRDUS Yellow 75 gram 5.5 flex and shortened -1” (story at… https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/23608-official-forum-member-review-cleveland-launcher-hb-drivers/?p=412350).

 

OK, so off to one of the nearby ranges to see if I can make this thing go any further than the Bertha Mini.

 

Short answer: “no”.

 

Was generally catching the ball in the middle of the face across, but .. very low on the face vertically.

 

 

I need a lesson!

Call the pro I'd seen recently and schedule another lesson to focus on the driver swing. Which I freely admit is obviously seriously lacking. He adjusted my setup slightly, had me lean back a bit at address but really honed in on getting more “loaded” on the back leg in the backswing and then “unloading” fully onto the front leg through the downswing.

 

 

Second Range Test.

Bringing my “new” driver swing – plus a Bertha Fusion driver I have sitting amongst the extra gear in the garage – I set out to improve on Test 1. The shaft in the Fusion is almost the polar opposite of the HZRDUS, so I thought it'd make a good comparitive test; the shaft is a Recoil ES 440 which…

  • is very light at 47 grams vs. the HZRDUS 75g
  • has a relatively soft tip and Low Kickpoint (so higher launch) vs. the HZRDUS Low Launch (ie. higher kickpoint)
  • no LM data but am “assuming” ;-) it's higher spin vs. the Low spin HZRDUS
  • has a “High” Torque vs. the HZRDUS very low 2.9 torque
  • and has a “flexier” feel to me vs. the relatively firmer HZRDUS 5.5 flex

 

The Fusion shaft is the shorter (“Control”) one at 44.5” – same as the HZRDUS; also, on the advice of the Club Champion fitter I swapped out the 12g weight in the head for a 9g one. I left the loft at 10.5 and the lie at standard.

 

Hit a few balls with one then switched and hit a few more, then switched again and hit a few more. Repeated this several times making a brief note of where the balls ended up with each club.

 

This time out the driver swing was showing improvement, and now both drivers were carrying further than the Bertha Mini (so I focused the rest of the time on comparing the two drivers).

 

However… based on my observations of the ball flights (on an outdoor range so no LM data to support this) the majority of the hits with the HZRDUS/Cleveland tended about 20 or so, maybe up to 30, yards offline to the right – more of a straight push than a fade or slice; while more of the hits with the ES 440/Fusion were closer to either side of the centerline … and all were at right about the same carry distance (though I did catch one or two with the Fusion that carried slightly further than any with the Launcher HB).

 

I also tended to top a few shots with the HZRDUS/Cleveland; more so than with the ES 440/Fusion. Comparing the ball marks on the faces I had more in or near the center with the Fusion, and so the resulting ball flights were generally a little higher vs the HZRDUS/Cleveland.

 

Conclusion: still more work to do.

 

 

Third Range Test.

After spending some time with new-to-me irons that I was hitting really well (at least on that day!), figured I was in good shape to break out the big sticks.

 

Uh uh. No go. Topped. Sliced. Topped. Switch clubs. Low pull hook. Worm burner. Sliced.

 

Put them back in the bag, take out the 7i only to find that I have absolutely no ability to make the face of the club contact the ball. Try a wedge … also very ugly. Don't know what “switched off” but handed off the rest of the bucket (almost half a large one) to the guy behind me who appeared to be in serious practice mode.

 

Conclusion: oh yeah, still more work to do.

 

 

Fourth Range Test.

A different range this time with somewhat similar results as the earlier “Second” range test, though I did feel I was showing improvement and some better contact this time and more often, too, but … in the aggregate over all the balls hit the Fusion edged out the Cleveland (again, based on my observations of ball flights at an outdoor range).

 

On a totally subjective, idiosyncratic note – for me, with it's lighter shaft and lighter overall weight the Fusion just feels “easier” to swing.

 

One new observation this time out was that when you catch the ball well with the Cleveland Launcher you get a very solid – and very satisfying – impact feel. I also made note of the impact sound, vs. the prior range sessions where it was way too noisy around me, and thought the Cleveland had a more muted and lower tone vs. the Fusion. To some I guess that may equate to a more solid “feel”; but I'll also note it's possible some of the sound – and feel – is dampened by the heavy shaft?

 

 

Bring in the Swing Weight scale!

All this time and testing – and despite the shaft fitting – I'm still scratching my head and wondering if the 75g HZRDUS is truly the proper shaft for me? To me, the clubhead feels relatively very light at the end of the heavy shaft, and the overall weight of the club just feels a bit heavy. 

 

In some of the follow-on discussion in this thread a question came up about the shortened shaft and if the club's swing weight was brought back to spec? I initially answered “yes”, as I'd thought I'd seen that on the build sheet packaged in with the club; plus another responder said since it came from the manufacturer in his experience they do adjust the clubs back to spec.

 

But I was still curious. So I purchased a swing weight scale (not only for this purpose, but to also see the swing weight changes throughout the rest of my bag) and found out that this driver measured at C9 … vs. a stated spec of D3. Hmmmm.

(The scale is pretty accurate – I weighed a few different “stock” clubs on it and got almost the exact stated SW spec for each.)

 

JLukes mentioned the HZRDUS is “back-weighted” and so may produce a relatively lighter result on the swing weight scale; but … 4 swing weight points?!? I also noticed on the shaft's product page (https://www.pxshaft.com/products/project-x-hzrdus-yellow/) they say, “The backweighting allows for additional mass to be added to the head for increased ballspeed.”

 

So I added a few strips of lead tape to the sole of the clubhead to get it to where it felt more “balanced” to me (if that's a good term to describe it). Ends up I got it right at D2 (still not “spec” but maybe I do better with slightly lighter).

 

 

Fifth Range Test.

OK, now I feel as if I'm swinging the club more smoothly and evenly. This time I feel the Cleveland has been solid and I've gotten several balls out there and even had a few inside an acceptable target zone. The overall results indicate it has come even with the Fusion, but … I'm not seeing any sizeable distance gains even on the most solid hits….

 

(Oh wait: must be the crappy range balls, right? Costs you, what?, like 10-15% in carry distance? (ha ha) Yeah, that's it – it's the crappy range balls that are not going anywhere. Oh, but wait: I flushed a 7i almost to the 175 marker just a few minutes ago … so it can't be the range balls. Oh, but wait again: that one flushed shot must've been with that one odd duck “superball” range ball. I can't hit a 7i to 175 yards. OK, so it IS the crappy range balls limiting my distance!)

 

Or so I'd like to think.

 

So let's take the next step and go to the course.

 

 

First On-Course Test.

My first in-the-field test was not during a game but after-hours at a course I volunteer at, so I could hit a bunch of balls off the same tee – using “good” balls – and take time to note my misses and overall dispersion. I felt like I was swinging freely enough – eg. trying to eliminate tension in my arms and hands – and loading/unloading through each shot as per my driver lesson.

 

First shot felt solid but was a HUGE soaring slice (that I never found even though it was in an open field of not that deep grass). Must have over-compensated next as the second shot was a hook which carried far but disappeared into the woods (so two shots, two lost balls). Make a few slow “rehearsal” swings and step in and shoot again. OK, better. Next several balls all ended up _near_ the fairway, but none actually in it….. The distances on the furthest few were decent for me – about 220 with one at almost 240.

 

But clearly this is still not what I was looking for with this driver review. So – yup! – still more work to do!

 

During these last few testing sessions I have not hit the old Bertha Mini, and now I'm wondering if recent swing improvements may translate into better results than I've had before with that club?

(One of my first lessons when I started playing the instructor told me: “200 in the fairway beats 250 in the woods.”)

 

Heading back to the course this evening to give it another go…

WITB of an "aspiring"  😉 play-ah ...
Driver...Callaway Paradym (Aldila Ascent PL Blue 40/A)
5W...Callaway Great Big Bertha (MCA Kai'Li Red 50/R)
7W...Tour Edge Exotics EXS (Tensei CK Blue 50/R)

4H...Callaway Epic Super Hybrid (Recoil ZT9 F3)
5H...Callaway Big Bertha ('19) (Recoil 460 ESX F3)
6i-GW...Sub 70 699 V2 (Recoil 660 F3) 
54°, 60°...Cleveland CBX2, CBX 60 (Rotex graphite)
Putter...Ev
nRoll ER5 or MLA Tour XDream (P2 Reflex grip on both)
...all in a Datrek bag on an MGI Zip Navigator electric cart. Ball often, not always, MaxFli Tour.

Forum Member tester for the Paradym X driver (2023)
Forum Member tester for the ExPutt Putting Simulator (2020)

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