Does Shaft Weight Matter More Than Shaft Flex?

[cksurfdude]

Matt Saternus - who used to be with MGS (so hope I'm not offending anyone here) - has a site called PluggedInGolf on which he does an occasional series titled, "Golf Myths Unplugged".

 

In this one he takes seven different golfers to test the effects of shaft weight and flex, in driver shafts of three different weights and three different flexes.

 

The conclusion .. which will not be surprising to most readers in this forum .. is that there are no hard-and-fast rules, each golfer's swing is unique and each golfer would benefit from a quality fitting.

 

Still an interesting and informative read, and he presents a table of the test data, at...

https://pluggedingolf.com/does-shaft-weight-matter-more-than-shaft-flex-golf-myths-unplugged/

[deejaid]

Thanks for the link cksurfdude. I've been more curious about shaft weight lately after getting my Hogan Hi long irons with lightweight Recoil graphite shafts.

 

When I bought them I just assumed and swap the graphite shaft out for my trusty KBS C Taper Lites. My thinking was, “Graphite shafts in irons? I'm not ready to go there yet.” But, I took them to the range and while still a stiff flex, the 20 gram or so weight difference made them feel much easier to generate clubhead speed.

 

 

I've been reading more on shafts lately and believe lightweight graphite shafts might be in my Hogan's at some point soon.

 

 

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[jayjay0808]

This is a very cool study done. I had a fitter who was one of the best in North America and for shaft weight he always used to say you take your ball speed divide it by 2 and minus 10 and that is your ideal shaft weight. A very simplistic approach but really worked for a lot of his clients. 

[SoutheastLefty]

Matt Saternus - who used to be with MGS (so hope I'm not offending anyone here) - has a site called PluggedInGolf on which he does an occasional series titled, "Golf Myths Unplugged".

 

In this one he takes seven different golfers to test the effects of shaft weight and flex, in driver shafts of three different weights and three different flexes.

 

The conclusion .. which will not be surprising to most readers in this forum .. is that there are no hard-and-fast rules, each golfer's swing is unique and each golfer would benefit from a quality fitting.

 

Still an interesting and informative read, and he presents a table of the test data, at...

https://pluggedingolf.com/does-shaft-weight-matter-more-than-shaft-flex-golf-myths-unplugged/

 

Very interesting, and seems to be the hot topic these days. Mark Crossfield on YouTube has been on a bit of a "disproving" shaft marketing rant as well. 

 

Here's where I take issue with some of the verbiage in here as well as Mark's videos on this. 

 

We all have bad habits in our swings. Shaft Flex/Torque/Weight should help us feel our swing so we can better understand and react to those bad habits. Whatever that feel is to someone (super stiff, or light, or lagging) is what's unique.

 

For me, my driver was in a 57G stock stiff shaft, and I was all over the map and for me, I couldn't feel when I was coming over the top with it. I just got fit for a new driver and landed on a 76G stiff shaft because I felt like I could control it better and feel when I was falling back into my over-the-top bad habit. Now ultimately that fix for me may be the opposite for someone else. But for me, the heavier shaft kept me from my bad habit, and I'm confident that if I went back to an ultralight shaft I'd be back to really hacking down on it.

 

So when the article states "You can't get more consistent or more accurate simply by getting a heavier, stiffer shaft.", I kind of disagree simply because a heavier shaft helps me feel my swing and stay out of my bad habits.

[cksurfdude]

 

 

Very interesting, and seems to be the hot topic these days. Mark Crossfield on YouTube has been on a bit of a "disproving" shaft marketing rant as well.

 

Here's where I take issue with some of the verbiage in here as well as Mark's videos on this.

 

We all have bad habits in our swings. Shaft Flex/Torque/Weight should help us feel our swing so we can better understand and react to those bad habits. Whatever that feel is to someone (super stiff, or light, or lagging) is what's unique.

 

For me, my driver was in a 57G stock stiff shaft, and I was all over the map and for me, I couldn't feel when I was coming over the top with it. I just got fit for a new driver and landed on a 76G stiff shaft because I felt like I could control it better and feel when I was falling back into my over-the-top bad habit. Now ultimately that fix for me may be the opposite for someone else. But for me, the heavier shaft kept me from my bad habit, and I'm confident that if I went back to an ultralight shaft I'd be back to really hacking down on it.

 

So when the article states "You can't get more consistent or more accurate simply by getting a heavier, stiffer shaft.", I kind of disagree simply because a heavier shaft helps me feel my swing and stay out of my bad habits.

Valid point, but I think he was saying something along the lines of.. "..for this group of testers it was not the case that dispersion decreased / accuracy increased for all testers with a heavier or stiffer shaft"

 

I had a driver shaft fitting recently and was very surprised to end up with a 75g shaft with very low torque ...... despite that I don't like the feel of it!

[null]

Neither is more important and you cannot evaluate either component in a vacuum. Shafts have different profiles that can make them feel stiffer/lighter/heavier than they actually are.

 

That is why a fitting is so important.

[jaskanski]

Does it matter more?

Well it depends how you get fitted. If you get fit properly from scratch, then picking the shaft weight is probably the first thing you should look at.

When you think about it, shaft weight is critical in your swing because you are the one who has to move that mass and feel it's transition. Only you can decide what feels comfortable and what helps to keep the club on the correct path. I'm not talking about swing weight either (although this does some effect) - I'm talking about static weight, ie mass that has to be moved by your physical energy against good old gravity. Basic physics.

Once you have a club you can swing comfortably (ignoring actually hitting a ball at this time) then you can start to build a club around the players physical measurements. 

Length will be the next critical element in fitting (for finding the centre of the club face) and then bend profile and last of all, flex. 

So yes, it does matter. But ultimately any shaft is an inert object - it only becomes a club when you swing it and is only the sum of all it's parameters when fitting - and all it's parameters matter and are interrelated in fitting. But if you need a starting reference - weight would be it in my opinion.

[revkev]

Matt Saternus - who used to be with MGS (so hope I'm not offending anyone here) - has a site called PluggedInGolf on which he does an occasional series titled, "Golf Myths Unplugged".

 

In this one he takes seven different golfers to test the effects of shaft weight and flex, in driver shafts of three different weights and three different flexes.

 

The conclusion .. which will not be surprising to most readers in this forum .. is that there are no hard-and-fast rules, each golfer's swing is unique and each golfer would benefit from a quality fitting.

 

Still an interesting and informative read, and he presents a table of the test data, at...

https://pluggedingolf.com/does-shaft-weight-matter-more-than-shaft-flex-golf-myths-unplugged/

Matt left here for a great opportunity. He was very well liked and respected. I cant imagine that mentioning his name would ever be offensive.

 

We've had some great MGS contributors during my time here. We have some great ones now too - they come, they go. Robin Arthur used to pop in a lot. I've even had the chance to chat with him on the phone on several occasions because of MGS.

 

I know his health has been spotty but he is one interesting dude.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[revkev]

Does it matter more?

Well it depends how you get fitted. If you get fit properly from scratch, then picking the shaft weight is probably the first thing you should look at.

When you think about it, shaft weight is critical in your swing because you are the one who has to move that mass and feel it's transition. Only you can decide what feels comfortable and what helps to keep the club on the correct path. I'm not talking about swing weight either (although this does some effect) - I'm talking about static weight, ie mass that has to be moved by your physical energy against good old gravity. Basic physics.

Once you have a club you can swing comfortably (ignoring actually hitting a ball at this time) then you can start to build a club around the players physical measurements.

Length will be the next critical element in fitting (for finding the centre of the club face) and then bend profile and last of all, flex.

So yes, it does matter. But ultimately any shaft is an inert object - it only becomes a club when you swing it and is only the sum of all it's parameters when fitting - and all it's parameters matter and are interrelated in fitting. But if you need a starting reference - weight would be it in my opinion.

Here's one of our results sent fitters - thanks for weighing in. (Pun intended)

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[AH1980MN]

Matt left here for a great opportunity. He was very well liked and respected. I cant imagine that mentioning his name would ever be offensive.

 

We've had some great MGS contributors during my time here. We have some great ones now too - they come, they go. Robin Arthur used to pop in a lot. I've even had the chance to chat with him on the phone on several occasions because of MGS.

 

I know his health has been spotty but he is one interesting dude.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Thanks for mentioning Robin Arthur- I had been wondering what was going on there. His shafts have been really good in my limited experience (Mom LOVES hers) and I hope he can get healthy and continue his work.

[EthanSterlingPrice]

After some homework of my own and some talks I've been doing weight over flex and haven't looked back. I do think flex has an effect on feel but since there isn't a set standard in the market I'm going with weight.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[jaskanski]

Tempo (and rhythm) is a huge part of what makes a consistently effective golf swing.

A shaft which is too light or too heavy for the player will absolutely harm his/her ability to find good effective swing tempo (and rhythm).

 

100% agree.

If you look at golfers with a really quick tempo, then a heavier shaft will help to control the rhythm. If at you look at guys like Nick Price for example (younger readers may want to look that up lol) it's no surprise his iron shafts were something around the 135g+ mark and his driver shaft was at least 80g+ (when he played graphite).

Slower swingers with a smoother more deliberate transition and maybe weaker wrists would certainly benefit from a lighter shaft - not just to help with clubhead speed, but again to maintain the correct tempo, which is a key part of returning the clubhead back to a decent strike. 

Try it for yourself and see the results.

[cksurfdude]

Matt left here for a great opportunity. He was very well liked and respected. I cant imagine that mentioning his name would ever be offensive.

 

We've had some great MGS contributors during my time here. We have some great ones now too - they come, they go. Robin Arthur used to pop in a lot. I've even had the chance to chat with him on the phone on several occasions because of MGS.

 

I know his health has been spotty but he is one interesting dude.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Ah ha ... good to know .. thanks for that bit of history!

[cksurfdude]

 

 

100% agree.

If you look at golfers with a really quick tempo, then a heavier shaft will help to control the rhythm. If at you look at guys like Nick Price for example (younger readers may want to look that up lol) it's no surprise his iron shafts were something around the 135g+ mark and his driver shaft was at least 80g+ (when he played graphite).

Slower swingers with a smoother more deliberate transition and maybe weaker wrists would certainly benefit from a lighter shaft - not just to help with clubhead speed, but again to maintain the correct tempo, which is a key part of returning the clubhead back to a decent strike.

 

Try it for yourself and see the results.

Thx for that - actually am doing that experiment! No conclusive results yet, still working on it during range sessions, but trying to figure out if a heavier or a lighter driver shaft gives me better results.