High Handicap Fitting Experience: Frustrating

[SoutheastLefty]

I was going to hit on the area where you said you only wanted a driver without 12* of loft. But RP already responded to that twice in his reply. I suppose I'm a decent player. 5 hcp. And guess what? I play a 14* SLDR dialed back to a 12*. The exact thing you don't want. I know a lot of guys that could probably hit my driver over a skyscraper. But not me.... I actually hit a mid-to high draw with it and love it. It's been my longest and most accurate driver ever. I have never had anyone examine my driver and snicker at the loft. And besides... who cares if they do? Golf is a results game. And my 12* driver puts me long in the mow.

 

Fitting is a strange animal. Now days every Joe that has a backyard shop and can glue in a shaft is a fitter. Hardly. Golf Pros think they are fitters too. Laughable. Some Pros cant even provide good instruction. Most resorts and high-end clubs have now gotten into fitting. These are for suckers mostly. Personally I prefer the types that have been fitting and building clubs for 20-30 years. Made a career of it. Look for these guys. Many of these Professional Club fitters-builders might not even deal with brands you're familiar with and that's good too. Just because a club isn't called Callaway or Ping or Titleist doesn't mean they are no good. There's a whole other world out there to be discovered if you're interested. 

 

I hear you. Maybe I'm not quite explaining this right. If the 12* was the right fit for me, I absolutely would play it!

 

It got laughs after looking at the data and result of the shots. Towering, over spinny drives that lost more distance that just didn't fit my swing. 

 

The laugh was much more a "well no wonder why that's your miss" and "why would you ever play a 12* cranked down to 10.5 to manage ball flight, only to open the club face and thus exasperate the left miss?". It was not "12* is for seniors, HA!". TLDR; I played it because it was on 2ndswing as the cheapest R15 available.

 

SLDR was also in the middle of Taylormade's "Loft Up" campaign. IIRC, SLDR was one of the lowest spinning heads ever, necessitating higher lofts in order to generate the right ballfight. 

 

Not saying you're right or wrong, but I certainly don't want to paint a picture that I was "against" hitting the 12* despite positive results. It pretty obviously wasn't a good fit, probably because I wasn't fit for it! 

[RickyBobby_PR]

Bingo. It was Golfdom working with Jim. I had originally tried to avoid them due to the general stigma around "big box" stores, but found the experience really solid. Highly recommend them.

Jim at golfdom is really good. He's the one I prefer there and a buddy of mine won't use anywhere there but jim.

 

I don't consider golfdom big box because it's only that store and they deal in all brands including high end lines like pxg, honma and miura

[ole gray]

I think you experience with two out of three was worth the effort.   I had my fitting at Club Champion and came away smiling because I found a driver that works very well for me.  With that said one of my friends had a fitting at the same CC and although the fitter was good, the irons were not delivered on time so he bought them elsewhere.  The overall experience you had was good and now you will be gaming clubs that should work much better!  Oh and by the way, you are very good at reviews!

 

What part of the southeast are you from?

[SoutheastLefty]

I think you experience with two out of three was worth the effort.   I had my fitting at Club Champion and came away smiling because I found a driver that works very well for me.  With that said one of my friends had a fitting at the same CC and although the fitter was good, the irons were not delivered on time so he bought them elsewhere.  The overall experience you had was good and now you will be gaming clubs that should work much better!  Oh and by the way, you are very good at reviews!

 

What part of the southeast are you from?

 

Thanks! I'm from Virginia but spent 8 years in Columbia, SC and Charlotte. 

[MGoBlue100]

Thanks for a GREAT write up. I think at a minimum, you've helped a lot of people who have never had a fitting in terms of what to look for and what to avoid.
I swear it's like trying to find an auto mechanic or a dentist. Who do you trust? Especially as you're like me: not independently wealthy.
I feel like you did this as correctly as you could. It sucks that you spent a bit of extra cash that could have paid for greens fees, but knowledge is priceless, eh? And, you've still got some fitting time left apparently at your last stop. Maybe they're the ticket moving forward. Enjoy your new driver! Looking forward to your review of that now! :D


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[SoutheastLefty]

Thanks for a GREAT write up. I think at a minimum, you've helped a lot of people who have never had a fitting in terms of what to look for and what to avoid.

I swear it's like trying to find an auto mechanic or a dentist. Who do you trust? Especially as you're like me: not independently wealthy.

I feel like you did this as correctly as you could. It sucks that you spent a bit of extra cash that could have paid for greens fees, but knowledge is priceless, eh? And, you've still got some fitting time left apparently at your last stop. Maybe they're the ticket moving forward. Enjoy your new driver! Looking forward to your review of that now! :D

 

 

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Thanks all! Got the call that the club is in. Can't wait to pick it up. Expect a first impressions review by the end of the weekend! 

[ole gray]

Thanks! I'm from Virginia but spent 8 years in Columbia, SC and Charlotte. 

 

 

That's beautiful country up your way!   

[paperclip]

"Taylormade R15 Driver Stiff Flex, 12* head de-lofted to 10.5 (miss = huge slice)"

 

Seems to me that the first thing to do would be to try to minimize the slice.  Believe it or not, when you de-loft the head, you create an open face.  My suggestion would be to dial up the loft to 12* which would close the face back to neutral and that should help with the slice.

 

If you still need more help, then try it to 2* higher (ie 14*) and it would also close the face which should help stop the slice.

[SoutheastLefty]

"Taylormade R15 Driver Stiff Flex, 12* head de-lofted to 10.5 (miss = huge slice)"

 

Seems to me that the first thing to do would be to try to minimize the slice.  Believe it or not, when you de-loft the head, you create an open face.  My suggestion would be to dial up the loft to 12* which would close the face back to neutral and that should help with the slice.

 

If you still need more help, then try it to 2* higher (ie 14*) and it would also close the face which should help stop the slice.

 

Yes! I actually found that out from my first fitting attempt. So this is definitely exasperating the issue. The challenge with adding the loft is that my launch angle gets a bit out of control. So while it'd help keep it in play, I'd lose additional distance.

 

Also worth noting that the slice is my miss, not my typical ballfight, and only liable for 2-3 of them a round. 

 

 

I agree that the first (and most sensible) strategy is to improve the swing.

In this case the OP has declared that he does have a "swing coach". I am not sure if swing coach means traditional PGA teaching pro or not.Whichever the title. coach or instructor,  the OP apparently does work with this guy on swing technique. 

 

Thanks Topline. And definitely agree, as I mentioned in the OP, that this is not the "solution" to the swing. 

 

Rather, I am simply not comfortable with the club. Too light, using the adjustments to try and manage ballflight, etc. 

 

It sounds like your thought is that you should NOT get fit until you have a "good" swing. I am not constantly slicing the ball of the tee. That's my miss.  

 

I'm trying to get the right equipment AND work with my PGA Tour Professional {{insert whatever title you want for someone I'm taking regular private lessons with}}. For me, I got to a point where I couldn't "feel" the changes in my swing with the club. This is not in place of continuing lessons.

[SoutheastLefty]

All, 

 

My first impressions of my new driver are now posted over in the member review section! Not shockingly, I'm really impressed. 

 

Another update on the fitting experience. 

 

When I picked up my driver I also took the time to continue my fit for fairway woods. 

 

My current Fairway Clubs:

 

• Taylormade R11S 3W- Stock Shaft Regular Stiffness
• Taylormade R11S 5W- Stock Shaft Regular Stiffness

 

We stuck with the Rogue lineup and tested the standard as well as Sub Zero heads. 

 

Unfortunately, since these are not adjustable clubs, it was harder to really test the full shaft options available. This is where places like Golfdom fall flat versus some of the more premium club fitters. They simply have fully built clubs, not heads with fitting hosels to easily swap shafts.

 

We started with the 5W in both SZ and standard. For the SZ, I really struggled with trajectory and consistency. 

 

After testing the SZ Jim and I had a discussion about my game and that I intended to primarily be hitting the 5W into greens, rather than off the tee. Because of that, we decided to focus on some higher launching shafts than the Hzrdus Yellow that we fit into my driver, as well as the standard head.

 

The two options for shafts they had available, aside from the Hzrdus Yellow, was the 75G Evenflow Blue as well as the lighter Synergy. Since we went 76G in the Driver, it really made no sense to consider the synergy (remember, through my driver fitting we realized that my swing and feels prefer heavier clubs!), so we grabbed a 5W with the Evenflow Blue shaft and hit away. 

 

The results were high launching, consistent shots where the themes from the driver fit carried over: better feel, cleaner contact. Sold. 

 

We ended up ordering a fresh club instead of purchasing the one I hit. It was their demo and pretty worn. Hoping for that club to come in within the week!

 

At this point you're probably wondering, "what about the 3W?". We ground to a halt here. 

 

Jim is great and talking about my game with me. For the 3W, we were unsure if I'd like to A: take the same approach as the 5W (higher launch and spin for softer landings) or B: turn the club into more of a driving fairway wood off the tee for shorter Par 4s or where accuracy is a premium. 

 

Option A would probably be the same Evenflow Blue Shaft.

Option B would probably be either the Evenflow Black or even the Hzrdus Yellow that's in my driver. 

 

My question for you in this update:

• How should I approach my 3W fit?
• Do you think about your 3W as a club for longer rollouts or high launch, soft landing? 

[cnosil]

For your 3 wood fit I would consider the courses you play and see what strategy will best fit your game. Do you need something less than driver off the tee or do you mostly use it for second shots on par 5s or long par 4s?

[Brjpool]

That really sucks, but remember this, golf fitters and golf coaches are like doctors, they know about the subject than you do and probably will help you, but if their bedside manner doesn't help you too, find one who does. Sounds like you still need quite a bit of work in your swing, which don't we all, but you're right, the equipment that fits your skill level will help.

 

I would encourage you to think about this, at what point in your bag do you lose return on your swing. What I mean by this, is at what point does hitting a long club stop benefiting you? I carried a 3 wood and a 4 hybrid for a long time. For that time it hurt me, because going for the green from over 200 yards was not something my swing was good enough to do. My coach suggested I throw out the 3 wood and 4 hybrid and we going my point of finding return was my 5 hybrid. I now carry a driver and the next club is a 5 hybrid, which I hit about 200 yards, I added some more wedges father down in the bag and my scores improved. So think about maybe ditching those woods or really long irons if you aren't hitting them well enough to justify their place in your bag

 

 

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[SoutheastLefty]

That really sucks, but remember this, golf fitters and golf coaches are like doctors, they know about the subject than you do and probably will help you, but if their bedside manner doesn't help you too, find one who does. Sounds like you still need quite a bit of work in your swing, which don't we all, but you're right, the equipment that fits your skill level will help.

 

I would encourage you to think about this, at what point in your bag do you lose return on your swing. What I mean by this, is at what point does hitting a long club stop benefiting you? I carried a 3 wood and a 4 hybrid for a long time. For that time it hurt me, because going for the green from over 200 yards was not something my swing was good enough to do. My coach suggested I throw out the 3 wood and 4 hybrid and we going my point of finding return was my 5 hybrid. I now carry a driver and the next club is a 5 hybrid, which I hit about 200 yards, I added some more wedges father down in the bag and my scores improved. So think about maybe ditching those woods or really long irons if you aren't hitting them well enough to justify their place in your bag

 

 

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Great feedback. I think my approach here will be to play the 5W a bit and see where I get with that club before getting fit for the 3W. Currently, my old 5W is a club I'm very comfortable with, so I'm not worried about not hitting that club well. 

 

But I hear you on the 3W. TXG also just did a video on this, where they speak to a similar line of thought. 

 

Based on this timely video and your advice, I'm going to get comfortable with my 5W and Driver and see if there's really a gap there. As you suspect, I think I may get more value by eliminating a longer iron with a hybrid on the lower side of the bag. 

[Nmrfgomes]

Thank you for sharing your experience. Glad to see you met your expectations.

[Golfspy_CG2]

Great feedback. I think my approach here will be to play the 5W a bit and see where I get with that club before getting fit for the 3W. Currently, my old 5W is a club I'm very comfortable with, so I'm not worried about not hitting that club well.

 

But I hear you on the 3W. TXG also just did a video on this, where they speak to a similar line of thought.

 

Based on this timely video and your advice, I'm going to get comfortable with my 5W and Driver and see if there's really a gap there. As you suspect, I think I may get more value by eliminating a longer iron with a hybrid on the lower side of the bag.

This is exactly what I was going to say. We didn't spend any time on FW at my TXG fitting. But I watched the same video you did. And my 5w out of the FW is a pretty consistent 190 club. Maybe it will get to 200 or so when I get consistent with my new swing path and face angle.

 

And I'm straight enough off the tee with the driver, there really isn't a need for it there either. So I'd rather use that spot on the low end of the bag with another wedge perhaps.

 

 

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[Golfspy_CG2]

.

I agree with your point, I guess it's that I just don't understand logic in putting your bag together.

 

I mean I get it, like many golfers you didn't hit your 3-wood well enough to justify it's place in your bag.

But that's where you lose me.

You had a 2 to 3 club gap between your 3-wood and your 4-hybrid, which I suppose is manageable.

But instead of swapping out your 3-wood for a 5-wood, which is easier to hit, you chose to ditch your 3-wood and 4-hybrid and created a 5 to 6 club and yardage gap between your driver and 5-hybrid (which is only a 5-iron replacement). ... It's one thing to scale back your shot selection, but to eliminate clubs from your bag just because you can't go for the green with them (and now can't tee off with them either) just doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

So was your motivation to get down to a bag with only 10 or 11 clubs, or do you have 8 wedges?

If he hits the 3W, 4W, 5W and 4 hybrid all the same distance, which entirely possible. Then he doesn't have a 4 club gap. And a 5 hybrid is not a 5 iron replacement, it more often replaces a 4 iron due to loft and distances.

 

It doesn't have to make sense to you. It only has to make sense to him and his professional.

 

 

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[GolfJunkie302]

 

 

But that's why I was asking him, as it doesn't make sense to me, and I didn't ask you.

 

And 5-hybrids are intended as 5-iron replacements, it's why their lofts are similar - as well as the number on the soles, because to do otherwise would cause confusion.

 

First, when you post on a public forum, you are allowing everyone to contribute their thoughts. If you only want an answer from a specific individual, you are more than welcome to use the PM feature.

 

Second, hybrids consistently go farther than their iron counterparts. While the numbers on the bottom may be the same, they are roughly 10 (at least for me) yards longer, which could mean the difference between hitting and missing the green.

 

 

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[RickyBobby_PR]

First, when you post on a public forum, you are allowing everyone to contribute their thoughts. If you only want an answer from a specific individual, you are more than welcome to use the PM feature.

 

Second, hybrids consistently go farther than their iron counterparts. While the numbers on the bottom may be the same, they are roughly 10 (at least for me) yards longer, which could mean the difference between hitting and missing the green.

 

 

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I agree they aren't true iron replacements. Most hybrids are designed for distance because that's what sells. Outside of titleist 816/818 and the Callaway Apex (haven't looked into their more recent releases) were designed more for true iron replacements and why titleist swapped from releasing them with their woods to releasing with their irons.

 

I was just having a conversation with a ping fitter about the subject of loft in hybrid. I told him I don't care what the number or loft on the hybrid is, I want it to go a certain distance range so because of design and launch/spin characteristics it could be a 19,21 or a tweaked loft in between.

[Thin2win]

At OP: Great write up. I think the value at the end of the day was that you found a store and a fitter that you like. Given the shiny factor of new clubs, and the heroin addiction that is golf, having both is a good thing.

 

As for your 3 wood dilemma, I think you have lots of options. And I think we will all be curious which you end up choosing.

 

I don't think I saw a WITB for your set. But I'd guess for most of us, having another wedge will get a lot more use than having a 3 wood. If you think your wedges are in a good spot, and you like all your distance gaps through your 5w, I'd recommend the Ping 3W stretch. It is the answer for those times when you need to hit a fairway and don't mind losing 15 yards off your driver.

 

Still, great post. A learning experience for all of us.

 

 

 

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[Golfspy_CG2]

You left out the 3h.

And while I suppose one could hit a 3w, 4w, 5w, 7w, 3h, and 4h the same distance, but I guess you're suggesting someone that hits it a very short distance.

But that's why I was asking him, as it doesn't make sense to me, and I didn't ask you.

 

And 5-hybrids are intended as 5-iron replacements, it's why their lofts are similar - as well as the number on the soles, because to do otherwise would cause confusion.

 

But I'm not looking for a fight, just trying to glean more info from Brjpool.

Chill brother. I was offering information I have lesrned from many fitters. Including the 5 hybrid comment. Most fitters will tell you the average amateur hits it one club further than the iron.

 

 

 

 

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[Golfspy_CG2]

I'm cool, but sorry bro, that's just a misinterpretation that leads to misunderstandings, and how myths are perpetuated. ... And 23 years later people still get confused.

I'm not spreading myths or misinterpreting anything. Maybe that was the design thought 23 years ago. I'm just relaying what Ive seen from sitting in on hundreds of OEM fittings the past couple years.

 

 

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[cnosil]

I today's golf marketplace the number on the bottom is meaning less. The lengths of clubs, cog, and lofts all contribute to distance. As a consumer you need to find out which clubs fly the distance that you need and allow you to repeat the ball flight.

 

In my experience the equivalent fairway wood flies farther than the equivalent hybrid which flies farther than the equivalent iron. Mostly the reason is ball height, and length of the club.

[palvord]

I today's golf marketplace the number on the bottom is meaning less. The lengths of clubs, cog, and lofts all contribute to distance. As a consumer you need to find out which clubs fly the distance that you need and allow you to repeat the ball flight.

 

In my experience the equivalent fairway wood flies farther than the equivalent hybrid which flies farther than the equivalent iron. Mostly the reason is ball height, and length of the club.

And I think this helps point to why getting fit for your game matters, rather than just looking at averages of what the number on the bottom of the club does.

 

 

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[Rtracymog]

At least all three fitters did mention the negative attack angle. Fitters can be greedy. We want to make sure that you're getting the absolute best out of your new clubs. I've asked many people “We have found some things that are definitely better than what you have, but is it $X better than what you currently have?” If the money doesn't make sense, I'll refer people back to lessons. Fitters are trying to make money, but we are trying to get repeat customers as well. Glad the new driver is working out for you!

 

 

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[Brjpool]

.

I agree with your point, I guess it's that I just don't understand logic in putting your bag together.

 

I mean I get it, like many golfers you didn't hit your 3-wood well enough to justify it's place in your bag.

But that's where you lose me.

You had a 2 to 3 club gap between your 3-wood and your 4-hybrid, which I suppose is manageable.

But instead of swapping out your 3-wood for a 5-wood, which is easier to hit, you chose to ditch your 3-wood and 4-hybrid and created a 5 to 6 club and yardage gap between your driver and 5-hybrid (which is only a 5-iron replacement). ... It's one thing to scale back your shot selection, but to eliminate clubs from your bag just because you can't go for the green with them (and now can't tee off with them either) just doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

So was your motivation to get down to a bag with only 10 or 11 clubs, or do you have 8 wedges?

Alright, sorry it has taken so long for me to get back to your comment. First off to the argument, this is only what works for me and may not be for anyone else. It's just what I found works for me. I have what would be considered a huge gap in the bag. I drive the ball 260-270 consistently. My five hybrid goes about 190. I only carry 11 clubs currently but 2 more wedges are in the works. I simply going that I hit a 3w, 5w poorly and a 7w just as far as my 5h. So I just found that I didn't hit those clubs well and I just work my way around the course using those clubs.

 

 

Ping G20 driver through wedges

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