Shaft length

[pulledabill 2,525]

Sitting here at work thinking about my fitting next week and shaft length.  Have I always played clubs too short and or the wrong lie angle?  At 6'1" I do play a little hunched over and in a couple lessons last year said he would like me to be a little more upright.  I also tend to creep to the end of the club at times  which creates issues as well. 

 

The other day at the range I hit a bunch of different demos and shafts.  They don't fit anymore they just had a bunch of demos for sale.  I grabbed a club with what I forget the lie angle was, but it was a half over and I totally hit 4 or 5 in a row of some of the sweetest shots I've hit in recent memory. 

 

It has me thinking that have I been playing the wrong length for me even though  I measure out to "standard"?  Am I creeping to the end of the club because my clubs are too short?  Do I slump over a bit because of bad posture or because my clubs are too short?  Do these two items combined create inconsistencies in my swing plane creating different shot patterns? 

 

The young man at my course and I were talking about this and I told him I thought the lie angle was 2 degrees flat. He mentioned from his experience that clubs that are over are usually more upright. 

 

I was hoping to get my fitting done this week but with my daughter graduating and my OSU Beavers baseball team playing regionals, it will have to wait until next week.  More excited about this to see what comes from the fitting and where I end up. I'm torn between find an older guy with some old school experience, or a younger more techy guy.  hmmm..

[PING Apologist #9 4,564]

I recommend visiting Ping's website , inputting your height and wrist-to-floor measurements, and the static fit software will provide you length and lie angle specifications. Since static fit uses only a persons physique as criteria, I think it is a good sense method because it sets one up to make fundamentally sound golf swings.

People in the industry who do fittings favor "dynamic fit", which involves use of lie board, impact tape, watching ball flight direction and trajectory, launch monitor results etc... However, I disagree with this method because I think it often produces recommended specs that may promote the existing swing faults of a player.

Regardless of the above commentary, a 6'1" player such as yourself is at a bit of a disadvantage in terms of golf address posture and available equipment. To use a 6'5" player as an example, to get the club head down to the ground at address he must either have a significant amount of bend from the hips (Dan Forsman) OR he must address the ball with a significant "sit down" position (George Archer).

In contrast, I think players in the 5'9" or so height range have an advantage, at least in terms of address posture, because that height allows them to comfortably address the ball without too much bend from the hips and, or, exaggerated sit down position.

At 6'1" your height is right in the middle between the above two examples. You have a choice of either addressing the ball by bending a lot from the hips, or using a sit down address posture. I favor the latter because (compared to the exaggerated bend from the hips style)  I think it promotes a more repeatable and easier body pivot (weight shift) as well as a more comfortable swing plane.

*note the primary problem with a tall player addressing the ball with a lot of hip bend is that it places the upper body well out in front of the lower body (which promotes a vertical shoulder turn instead of the more comfortable level shoulder turn), so making a proper pivot-weight shift is relatively difficult.

Finally, lengthening your clubs a half inch likely won't do harm (it's not enough extra length to cause swing weight- club balance problems), but I think the real solution to your question is going to come from you finding a good working address posture. At 6'1" this will either be exaggerated hip bend or it will be sit down position.

 

Here is Dan Forsman  (tall guy addressing the ball with significant hip bend) and George Archer (tall guy addressing the ball using sit down position)

 

 

 

Good response Topline! You beat me to it on the PING website recommendation, but here is a link;

 

http://nflightweb.ping.com/#ready

 

Bill, I use this every now and again to help me understand gaps and what clubs I should be considering as I start my upgrade process. When I was fitted to my driver, I also demoed irons and wedges. I was able to hit off of a lie board and the results was of that showed that I'd need green-dot clubs, or be at 2* up (I stand at 5'10"). This jibes with my data input put into this app, so I'm confident that is works properly-at least as a starting point in your search.

 

Good luck and keep us up to date on your fitting experience.

[cnosil 16,655]

i think the OP post explains why static fitting doesn't always work.  It is a great starting point and even Ping who is best known for the static fitting approach does dynamic fittings to dial in the specific players needs.  Body type has a lot to do with how a person can swing the club.  It is entirely possible that you grab the club too far toward the end (a lot of people do,  myself included) or that your clubs are too short based on how you address the ball.   If you aren't planning on doing dramatic changes to your swing,  going some place to be able to hit balls (launch monitor or range) to see how the changes impact your ball flight would be your best option.  If you can't get to a fitting, do like you are doing and get a club and try different lengths and lie angles.  With some basic skills you can change the length of a club yourself.  Lie angle can be easily adjusted by your local shop if they do club work.  

[pulledabill 2,525]

I did the Ping fitting.  Interesting.  Had driver length at 45.75 and irons at .50 over.  Had my grips at standard as well.  With my measurements on other places I've looked, it all comes up standard length and mid size grips.  I just changed out my mid size as I felt that they were too big and really never loved them.  

 

I have a quality shop in Fiddlers Green an hour away that does a complete fitting for free with no obligation to buy.  I will most likely buy something from them for their service and they are a very valuable shop in the Willamette Valley that I hate to see go under. 

[blackngold_blood 4,592]

I did the Ping fitting.  Interesting.  Had driver length at 45.75 and irons at .50 over.  Had my grips at standard as well.  With my measurements on other places I've looked, it all comes up standard length and mid size grips.  I just changed out my mid size as I felt that they were too big and really never loved them.  

 

I have a quality shop in Fiddlers Green an hour away that does a complete fitting for free with no obligation to buy.  I will most likely buy something from them for their service and they are a very valuable shop in the Willamette Valley that I hate to see go under. 

Curious if you did the ping fitting with your golf shoes on?  Since you play in your golf shoes, I alway thought it made since to take your measurements in what you play in.

[jlukes 13,571]

i think the OP post explains why static fitting doesn't always work.  It is a great starting point and even Ping who is best known for the static fitting approach does dynamic fittings to dial in the specific players needs.  Body type has a lot to do with how a person can swing the club.  It is entirely possible that you grab the club too far toward the end (a lot of people do,  myself included) or that your clubs are too short based on how you address the ball.   If you aren't planning on doing dramatic changes to your swing,  going some place to be able to hit balls (launch monitor or range) to see how the changes impact your ball flight would be your best option.  If you can't get to a fitting, do like you are doing and get a club and try different lengths and lie angles.  With some basic skills you can change the length of a club yourself.  Lie angle can be easily adjusted by your local shop if they do club work.  

 

Agree with this.  Static fitting is better than nothing, but getting your length and lie fit while actually swinging makes a huge difference 

[pulledabill 2,525]

I did the measurement at home with my golf shoes on the other day.

[McGolf 289]

Giving the nod to PING for being a pioneer for creating some sort of method to get better gear into the hands of golfers.

I prefer the dynamic fit as it take into consideration the very thing you are trying to address. The proper club length among other parameters,

This assumes the fitter is looking at your posture and actually testing for length. Staying away from the "this is better or that" conversation.

As part of the fitting process tell the fitter your concerns so that they can be addressed and you have confidence in the specs recommendation

[RickyBobby_PR 5,793]

Agree with this. Static fitting is better than nothing, but getting your length and lie fit while actually swinging makes a huge difference

Exactly. Wrong length or lie can really screw up a swing. Dynamo fittings are preferred because the fitter can see how one delivers the club, how they load along with ball flight and using that with feedback from the golfer can make adjustments.

[Golfspy_CG2 26,353]

i think the OP post explains why static fitting doesn't always work. It is a great starting point and even Ping who is best known for the static fitting approach does dynamic fittings to dial in the specific players needs. Body type has a lot to do with how a person can swing the club. It is entirely possible that you grab the club too far toward the end (a lot of people do, myself included) or that your clubs are too short based on how you address the ball. If you aren't planning on doing dramatic changes to your swing, going some place to be able to hit balls (launch monitor or range) to see how the changes impact your ball flight would be your best option. If you can't get to a fitting, do like you are doing and get a club and try different lengths and lie angles. With some basic skills you can change the length of a club yourself. Lie angle can be easily adjusted by your local shop if they do club work.

Agree with this. Static fitting is better than nothing, but getting your length and lie fit while actually swinging makes a huge difference

Exactly. Wrong length or lie can really screw up a swing. Dynamo fittings are preferred because the fitter can see how one delivers the club, how they load along with ball flight and using that with feedback from the golfer can make adjustments.

Yep. Ian Fraser and other fitters have often said, you don't hit the ball in a static position, so why would you fit off that. Of course I understand their business is custom fitting. But it's still so true. Most amatuers are no near the same position at impact as they are in a static as address. So basing off that is a 50/50 guess at best.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[RickyBobby_PR 5,793]

 

Yep. Ian Fraser and other fitters have often said, you don't hit the ball in a static position, so why would you fit off that. Of course I understand their business is custom fitting. But it's still so true. Most amatuers are no near the same position at impact as they are in a static as address. So basing off that is a 50/50 guess at best.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

The current ping rep and the previous one for this area hardly ever did a static fitting even prior to given a customer a club to hit during a scheduled appt at a demo day. I was also just fit by the guys from ping HQ who were in the area with their fitting van. It was appt only and in my fitting and the ones I watched they never started by using static measurements. They gathered info about current club specs, what the typical miss and also ball flight was and then gave a setup similar then adjusted from there. This was for both drivers and irons

[DPattGolf 1,624]

Giving the nod to PING for being a pioneer for creating some sort of method to get better gear into the hands of golfers.

I prefer the dynamic fit as it take into consideration the very thing you are trying to address. The proper club length among other parameters,

This assumes the fitter is looking at your posture and actually testing for length. Staying away from the "this is better or that" conversation.

As part of the fitting process tell the fitter your concerns so that they can be addressed and you have confidence in the specs recommendation

The copied Jeffmont Sports (Formerly Redbird) to the T with their static measurement system.

[DPattGolf 1,624]

I recommend visiting Ping's website , inputting your height and wrist-to-floor measurements, and the static fit software will provide you length and lie angle specifications. Since static fit uses only a persons physique as criteria, I think it is a good sense method because it sets one up to make fundamentally sound golf swings.

People in the industry who do fittings favor "dynamic fit", which involves use of lie board, impact tape, watching ball flight direction and trajectory, launch monitor results etc... However, I disagree with this method because I think it often produces recommended specs that may promote the existing swing faults of a player.

Regardless of the above commentary, a 6'1" player such as yourself is at a bit of a disadvantage in terms of golf address posture and available equipment. To use a 6'5" player as an example, to get the club head down to the ground at address he must either have a significant amount of bend from the hips (Dan Forsman) OR he must address the ball with a significant "sit down" position (George Archer).

In contrast, I think players in the 5'9" or so height range have an advantage, at least in terms of address posture, because that height allows them to comfortably address the ball without too much bend from the hips and, or, exaggerated sit down position.

At 6'1" your height is right in the middle between the above two examples. You have a choice of either addressing the ball by bending a lot from the hips, or using a sit down address posture. I favor the latter because (compared to the exaggerated bend from the hips style)  I think it promotes a more repeatable and easier body pivot (weight shift) as well as a more comfortable swing plane.

*note the primary problem with a tall player addressing the ball with a lot of hip bend is that it places the upper body well out in front of the lower body (which promotes a vertical shoulder turn instead of the more comfortable relatively level shoulder turn), so making a proper pivot-weight shift is relatively difficult.

Finally, lengthening your clubs a half inch likely won't do harm (it's not enough extra length to cause swing weight- club balance problems), but I think the real solution to your question is going to come from you finding a good working address posture. At 6'1" this will either be exaggerated hip bend or it will be sit down position.

 

Here is Dan Forsman  (tall guy addressing the ball with significant hip bend) and George Archer (tall guy addressing the ball using sit down position)

 

 

 

A bad fitter does length based on height and lie based off some swings on a lie board and be done. A good fitter will do a "dynamic fit" with swing faults and improvements in mind. A great fitter will start with a "static fit" and then move into a full "dynamic fit" with those swing faults and improvements still in mind and sometimes will include your swing instructor in the process if possible.