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2018 US OPEN


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...thought this was a good wrap-up article:

http://www.friedegg.co/blog/2018-us-open-setup

 

A few interesting comments in here that made a lot of sense to me...

 

The USGA's setup issue at Shinnecock stems from a much larger problem. It's become nearly impossible to test the world's best players because of technology. It's the runaway train that is transforming golf from a game of skill, thought and execution into one that's strictly execution-based. It's not limited to low-spin, high-launch solid core balls. It includes the 460cc driver heads that make it virtually impossible to miss. The driving irons and hybrids that effortlessly launch balls high enough to hit to tucked flags. Green reading was an art until books that tell players every slope and contour on the putting surface came along. TrackMan ties it all together, allowing players to optimize every piece of their swing. Today's players are talented and better than ever - not because of skill but because of their tools. These innovations have actually diminished the skills that the world's best players have in their arsenal.

 

Many of today's prototypical Tour pros appeared clueless at Shinnecock thanks to changing winds, uneven lies and vexing green complexes. The idea of flighting a 4-iron into a modest wind from 180 to control the spin as opposed to bashing a 7-iron is a foreign concept. Rather than use the ground around the greens, many immediately grabbed their 60 degree and watched helplessly as chip shots rolled back to their feet. Shinnecock Hills asked a slew of questions to the world's best players that they had never seen. 

 

Most failed, and it's not their fault. Their week-in and week-out setups on the PGA Tour don't ask these difficult questions. To succeed on the PGA Tour, they don't need these shots, so why learn how to hit them? These are the skills that the great players of yesterday had in spades. Skills they learned because they didn't have solid core golf balls, massive driver heads and books that told them every slope on perfectly manicured greens.

 

The technology effect has been two-fold. It's made it nearly impossible for the USGA to properly set up a golf course, and it has also robbed the game of skill. Combine the two together, and the line of a good setup and bad setup is razor thin. The vast majority of players lacked the ability to hit the shots that were needed at Shinnecock, and their first reaction was to complain.

I like Andy from the fried egg a lot and listen to his podcasts/ read his site. But he is clearly trying to make this about what he always does, which is the ball and the equipment are going too far. He hates that they are making a lot of the great older courses obsolete. Like most people, Andy has an agenda and his using this as a chance to push it. 

 

 

I do agree with him about most of the regular tour set ups though. They are boring and soft.

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I like Andy from the fried egg a lot and listen to his podcasts/ read his site. But he is clearly trying to make this about what he always does, which is the ball and the equipment are going too far. He hates that they are making a lot of the great older courses obsolete. Like most people, Andy has an agenda and his using this as a chance to push it. 

 

 

I do agree with him about most of the regular tour set ups though. They are boring and soft.

 

yeah... he seems kind of old school in that sense but I do think that he made a couple of good points about having to use some creativity vs. just mashing a wedge 200 yards.... although, contrary to his point, guys were hitting PW to the 159 yard par3 on Sunday.  haha.

 

Must be frustrating for a course architect to design a course that he wants to be played in a certain way only to see guys just blister it way up in the air and over the dogleg leaving an 80 yard pitch into a par 5...

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I got something to say then I'm gonna say it. 

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yeah... he seems kind of old school in that sense but I do think that he made a couple of good points about having to use some creativity vs. just mashing a wedge 200 yards.... although, contrary to his point, guys were hitting PW to the 159 yard par3 on Sunday. haha.

 

Must be frustrating for a course architect to design a course that he wants to be played in a certain way only to see guys just blister it way up in the air and over the dogleg leaving an 80 yard pitch into a par 5...

True, but the path of less resistance is there why not take it? I cut corners all the time if I can get over the trees.

 

Also. Another reason why I don't listen to the news, radio, podcasts...

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yeah... he seems kind of old school in that sense but I do think that he made a couple of good points about having to use some creativity vs. just mashing a wedge 200 yards.... although, contrary to his point, guys were hitting PW to the 159 yard par3 on Sunday.  haha.

 

Must be frustrating for a course architect to design a course that he wants to be played in a certain way only to see guys just blister it way up in the air and over the dogleg leaving an 80 yard pitch into a par 5...

No doubt it's frustrating! Which is why Andy uses these chances talk about rolling back the ball and clubs. 

 

I disagree with him about the pros being unskilled though. As Shankster mentioned, they just choose the path with the least resistance and the one with the fewest variables most often. As do I if at all possible. That doesn't mean that they can't play the ball on the ground. You'll see plenty of it at the Open. I believe that some of them didn't do it as often this week because the greens are so quick as opposed to the Open where they are much slower. It's easier to judge the roll out when they aren't lightning fast. 

 

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Driver- Tmag 2017 M2 tour issue 8.5* actual loft 7.8* w/ HZRDS Green PVD 70TX"
Fairway Metal- Taylormade SLDR Mini Driver 12* w/ Fujikura Rombax TP95-X"

Utility- Mizuno MPH5 1 iron w/ Aldila RIP 85X (depending on course/ conditions)

Irons- Mizuno MP- FLI HI 2i w/ Aldila Proto ByYou 100X
          Mizuno MP59 4i-6I w/ PX 6.5

          Mizuno MP69 7i-PW w/ PX 6.5

Wedges- Scratch 8620 Driver/Slider set.  50*, 54* bent to 55* and 60*

Putter- Taylormade Spider Tour w/ flow neck
Ball- Bridgestone Tour B X

Bag- Sun Mountain C130 Supercharged

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My observation of Shinnecock is that while at first glance the course appears to be styled and played similar to a British links course, it is not.

Specifically, Shinnecock's greens are perched well above its fairways, whereas a true links course has greens which are more or less level with the fairway.

 

I agree. Which is why I was happy when they shaved down the areas around the greens so the ball would run away on missed shots. As opposed to being held up in the rough. I think Shinnecock is an excellent golf course. It's all about hitting excellent approach shots and being able to recover when you don't. The Friend Egg had an excellent write up about it before US Open began. 

Driver- Tmag 2017 M2 tour issue 8.5* actual loft 7.8* w/ HZRDS Green PVD 70TX"
Fairway Metal- Taylormade SLDR Mini Driver 12* w/ Fujikura Rombax TP95-X"

Utility- Mizuno MPH5 1 iron w/ Aldila RIP 85X (depending on course/ conditions)

Irons- Mizuno MP- FLI HI 2i w/ Aldila Proto ByYou 100X
          Mizuno MP59 4i-6I w/ PX 6.5

          Mizuno MP69 7i-PW w/ PX 6.5

Wedges- Scratch 8620 Driver/Slider set.  50*, 54* bent to 55* and 60*

Putter- Taylormade Spider Tour w/ flow neck
Ball- Bridgestone Tour B X

Bag- Sun Mountain C130 Supercharged

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My observation of Shinnecock is that while at first glance the course appears to be styled and played similar to a British links course, it is not.

Specifically, Shinnecock's greens are perched well above its fairways, whereas a true links course has greens which are more or less level with the fairway.

I wish all courses here in the US looked like that. Never been to it, but I'm 100% certain I'd love it.

 

Even just for an evening stroll around the grounds.

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I wish all courses here in the US looked like that. Never been to it, but I'm 100% certain I'd love it.

 

Even just for an evening stroll around the grounds.

Alan if I ever get out on Shinnecock they'd probably have to carry me off of it.

 

Jk of course... or am I  :ph34r:

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Driver- Tmag 2017 M2 tour issue 8.5* actual loft 7.8* w/ HZRDS Green PVD 70TX"
Fairway Metal- Taylormade SLDR Mini Driver 12* w/ Fujikura Rombax TP95-X"

Utility- Mizuno MPH5 1 iron w/ Aldila RIP 85X (depending on course/ conditions)

Irons- Mizuno MP- FLI HI 2i w/ Aldila Proto ByYou 100X
          Mizuno MP59 4i-6I w/ PX 6.5

          Mizuno MP69 7i-PW w/ PX 6.5

Wedges- Scratch 8620 Driver/Slider set.  50*, 54* bent to 55* and 60*

Putter- Taylormade Spider Tour w/ flow neck
Ball- Bridgestone Tour B X

Bag- Sun Mountain C130 Supercharged

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Alan if I ever get out on Shinnecock they'd probably have to carry me off of it.

 

Jk of course... or am I :ph34r:

You and me both. Or bury me there. I told my wife there will be a list of courses for me to visit when I kick the bucket. First stop will be St. Andrews.

 

I hope my kids have good jobs, they'll be taking a long trip to meet my wishes.

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Personally, courses with perched "upside down frying pan" greens are my least favorite to play.

Pitching and chipping is the weakest part of my game, and upside down frying pan greens are the most challenging of all from which to play chips or pitch shots.

Fair enough. The course I regularly play has a good number or perched greens, I don't like the blind landing zone of it, but I actually play those holes the best. I just aim at the top of the flagstick if I can see it, same as my sand shots. That way it will have enough to get there. Sometimes I get it wrong and over shoot it, but it works 80% of the time.

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My observation of Shinnecock is that while at first glance the course appears to be styled and played similar to a British links course, it is not.

Specifically, Shinnecock's greens are perched well above its fairways, whereas a true links course has greens which are more or less level with the fairway.

Exactly why I enjoy playing a true links course.

 

Sent from my SM-N950U using MyGolfSpy mobile app

Wishon clubs, Odyssey CS stroke lab putter

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Shinnecock's greens are both perched and crowned (false front all the way around the green, upside down frying pan shape etc...). It's not so much elevated greens which I find a real challenge to chip or pitch to, it is constantly facing false fronts as well. It's like a double-whammy of toughness.

Here on the west coast the courses do not typically have this perched-crowned combination.

I think the style is more prevalent in the east. Donald Ross was a prolific course designer, and I think most of his work was done in the eastern USA, and his courses are known for perched-crowned greens.

We have them in the Midwest as well - I call them muffin tops.

 

 

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Do you believe the muffin top-crowned-360* false front-upside down frying pan etc.... greens have something to do with snow regions ?

That somehow this profile of green withstands winter-snow better than relative flat greens ?

I'm certain that they do deal with snow better than flat greens, but it doesn't snow all that much down here in the Southeast, where Ross designed so many of his courses.

What's in the bag:
Driver - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
3 Wood (16*) - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
3 Hybrid (19*) - :taylormade-small: RBZ
4i - PW - :wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged - Recoil 760 ( S )
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No doubt it's frustrating! Which is why Andy uses these chances talk about rolling back the ball and clubs. 

 

I disagree with him about the pros being unskilled though. As Shankster mentioned, they just choose the path with the least resistance and the one with the fewest variables most often. As do I if at all possible. That doesn't mean that they can't play the ball on the ground. You'll see plenty of it at the Open. I believe that some of them didn't do it as often this week because the greens are so quick as opposed to the Open where they are much slower. It's easier to judge the roll out when they aren't lightning fast.

I love Andy's writing about architecture (he reviewed our local muni that's an old Tillinghast design, which I love very much), but I have had it with people complaining about technology in the game. How far do we roll it back? To steel shafts, persimmon heads and balata balls? Hickory and gutta percha? Featheries? I'm sure that at every turn, there have been complaints about how the latest technological improvements have taken skill out of the game.

 

+1 won the US Open, and it was great to watch. Hats off to Brooks Koepka who proved he can win a -16 birdiefest and a +1 meat grinder, both for one of the biggest achievements in golf. That's pretty versatile.

What's in the bag:
Driver - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
3 Wood (16*) - :cobra-small: F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S )
3 Hybrid (19*) - :taylormade-small: RBZ
4i - PW - :wilson_staff_small: D7 Forged - Recoil 760 ( S )
GW - LW - :cobra-small: F8 - N.S. Pro Modus3 Tour105 ( S )
Putter - :ping-small: Craz-e
Bag - :1590477705_SunMountain: 2.5 (Black)
Ball -  :taylormade-small: TP5X Pix
Instagram - @hardcorelooper
Twitter - @meovino
Facebook - mike.eovino

 

 

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I love Andy's writing about architecture (he reviewed our local muni that's an old Tillinghast design, which I love very much), but I have had it with people complaining about technology in the game. How far do we roll it back? To steel shafts, persimmon heads and balata balls? Hickory and gutta percha? Featheries? I'm sure that at every turn, there have been complaints about how the latest technological improvements have taken skill out of the game.

 

+1 won the US Open, and it was great to watch. Hats off to Brooks Koepka who proved he can win a -16 birdiefest and a +1 meat grinder, both for one of the biggest achievements in golf. That's pretty versatile.

 

It's funny because Andy himself said that he found many places where old architects such as Alister Mackenzie complained about technology advancing too much and leaving old courses behind. So this is no new "problem" or complaint by some. 

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Driver- Tmag 2017 M2 tour issue 8.5* actual loft 7.8* w/ HZRDS Green PVD 70TX"
Fairway Metal- Taylormade SLDR Mini Driver 12* w/ Fujikura Rombax TP95-X"

Utility- Mizuno MPH5 1 iron w/ Aldila RIP 85X (depending on course/ conditions)

Irons- Mizuno MP- FLI HI 2i w/ Aldila Proto ByYou 100X
          Mizuno MP59 4i-6I w/ PX 6.5

          Mizuno MP69 7i-PW w/ PX 6.5

Wedges- Scratch 8620 Driver/Slider set.  50*, 54* bent to 55* and 60*

Putter- Taylormade Spider Tour w/ flow neck
Ball- Bridgestone Tour B X

Bag- Sun Mountain C130 Supercharged

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On the USGA and the handling of the US Open:

 

I know the course conditions were not what the players or spectators wanted or appreciated, nor did the USGA do a particularly good job at setup or keeping conditions within reasonable playing condidtion. But, are we just complaining to complain? Is Brooks Keopka not just a Bad Mother Fucker for pulling it off two times in a row? Was Phil wrong? Does Zach just have a bad taste? "Yes"and "no"are the answers.

I don't think the course should protect par and I don't think the USGA should be is completely idiotic. I do think they should set up the course within reason and I do think they should leave it alone after they set it up. On Sunday Mike Davis kind of owned what went down on Saturday. Also, he is ultimately responsible for all of this.

The USGA should just pick a course, grow the rough a little, set pins where the are difficult, but not impossible and leave it alone. Otherwise, they should build their own freaking course and see who shows up.

The players don't really want to ******, but they do and do for good reason. However, I think they should just shut up and play, win/lose and move on. I have come to not really care about the US Open because of all the BULLSHIT. Sad really as I went to the 2014 more just to see the course than the players. It was a great day and a fun fathers day for me, out there by myself just wandering around hawking at the beauty of the C and C refurb of Pinehurst.

I have no point really, I am just tired of what goes around what should be a showcase and not a murder scene as well as hating drama to the highest degree.

Get your s*** together USGA.

 

 

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Shinnecock's greens are both perched and crowned (false front all the way around the green, upside down frying pan shape etc...). It's not so much elevated greens which I find a real challenge to chip or pitch to, it is constantly facing false fronts as well. It's like a double-whammy of toughness.

Here on the west coast the courses do not typically have this perched-crowned combination.

I think the style is more prevalent in the east. Donald Ross was a prolific course designer, and I think most of his work was done in the eastern USA, and his courses are known for perched-crowned greens.

That is absolutely 100% correct on a Ross course. I was born and raised in the Carolinas and us Carolina boys my age know all about Ross courses

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