cameron collector kool aid drinkers

[Sandy Koufax]

I just had a funny experience on the cameroncollector.com forum which I thought I would share.

Now first of all let me say if you are looking for an online classifieds of Scotty Cameron off the rack, rare or tour putters, headcovers, chochkes, etc, cameroncollector is the bomb. I bought my Del Mar from another user and it was a great shopping and buying experience.

 

But I've noticed that any criticism of Scotty Cameron on that forum is likely to be met by 5-10 angry users refuting the criticism, and also demanding that criticism be termed in the most politically correct language possible! Yesterday was my first experience with this first-hand.

My Art Of Putting headcover has developed a large tear on the inside, so I started a thread titled "POS headcover." My rationale being, this headcover held up less well over one month than my Odyssey headcover did over the entire summer so it is a POS...sorry.

 

Since posting that last night I have had several replies with observations on what's going on with the headcovers, and several people who agree with my suggestion that the magnet closures are superior to velcro.

 

There has been an equal amount of responses however, scolding me for using the term "POS." I have been mocked for gaming an Odyssey, not right now, I'm being mocked for EVER having gamed an Odyssey. "Go back to your Vanilla Ice Ice Baby" was the comment I believe. The Den Mothers are out in force!

 

The first or second reply took issue with me terming a headcover that ripped after a month a POS, then cleverly tried to blame ME, for "forcefully" putting the putter in it's cover. Then there was the guy who implied that I have no right to complain, being as how my post count on the forum was so low. (I've been lurking for a long time.)

 

Look, maybe I should not have called it a POS. And truthfully, if you want information on ANYTHING Cameron, cameroncollector.com is the place to go for a prompt response. It is a large community of extremely passionate putter enthusiasts and I use it as a resource all the time.

 

BUT, I will leave you with this. Right now, on cameroncollector.com, there is a thread titled "It's Button Back not Buttonback." ...Seriously dude? Lighten up.

[golfluvzme]

I have to chuckle as I have been in a form of that situation, myself, as have many, many a putter junkie.

Gotta take the Cameron guys with a small grain of salt and let them have their .............. well, whatever you choose to call it. They will never change and most of them, apart from their blind following of Scotty, are pretty good guys.

I have been in putters for a very long time and spent time on that site. I got banned because I used a picture of a Futura that I refinished as my avatar, LOL. Scotty won't even DO this work and I totally understand why. EPA regulations and California laws are too much for alot of companies to weed through. Like your "POS" comment, I could have gone a different route, but it is done. Truth be known, take away the entire Cameron Fan Club and Scotty can still get on a mill and make a putter. That is what things used to be all about, anyway, right?

Great to read your posts and keep it up.

BTW, sorry to hear about the headcover. AM&E usually makes a pretty quality product.

LaMont in AZ

[HoosierGolfer]

You must be under another name there. Search did not turn you up. I wanted to read the thread before making any remarks.

[HoosierGolfer]

Ok....found it. Not sure what to say. I think I would have approached it differently. I would guess they (SC) would replace the cover. I also did not see where anyone pointed out your post count?

[cheymike]

*chuckles* the *blind* SC followers are like the *blind* anything followers. Just give them their cool-aid and they are happy. But try to give them a coke and look out, you better have your helmet and flak vest on!!!!

[Justin66]

I find it funny because the guy doesn't even make his own putters. He has others mill it for him. I get a lot of flak because I call his company a knockoff company... which, in the barebones of it, it is. His most popular designs were other peoples.

From Wikipedia, with sources if anyone's interested in digging deeper:

 

Putter heads for Titleist's Scotty Cameron brand were manufactured by X-cel Golf/Bettinardi between 1993 and 1997. Slivnik Machining Inc., who with Scotty Cameron jointly hold the patent on the Tei3 putter,[4] and K-Tech Machine Inc.[5] have also made putters for the brand. Interestingly, with all the success Cameron has had building his reputation as a putter maker, Cameron has never owned his own machine shop and all his putters bearing his name have been outsourced to third party manufactures.

 

He even left Mizuno (in '92) because they didn't want to make his Anser clone. He got his lucky break when Bernhard Langer won the '93 Masters with his prototype. In my eyes, he's no different than Mannkrafted, Piretti, Nead, or anyone similar... good stuff, but it's a putter. There is no "be all, end all" of putters. If there were, there'd only be one brand out there- especially on Tour, where all of them are looking for that competitive edge (and larger bank accounts). It's about finding the one that's right for YOU... not what all the fanatics want you to believe.

 

You had every right to call it a POS. The turth hurts, and as much as those things run, it ought to hold up a little better than that. To me, it sounds more like "you get what they give you (while paying for the right to use that name brand, its sponsorships and advertising fees) at the price they want and you'll like it" and not "you get what you pay for". Of course, if it was a "lesser" brand, component, or clone headcover that did that, you'd get ridiculed for using "cheap" gear.

[jamo]

The "no right" thing is what gets me the most. I mean c'mon, it's golf people.

[GolfSpy_X]

Justin I am not a Scotty Collector nor have I ever drank the Kool-Aid I will preface my response with that.

 

Scotty does not mill all his own putters now and it would be impossible for him to. His demand is too high at this point to be able to sustain that work load. What do golfers expect him to do...work 48 hrs a dat 10 days a week 700 days a year milling putters by himself on a Bridgeport? And I never understood why that made you a good putter designer or not. Learning how to be skilled at any of those machines takes years and years of practice. Which if that is the route you choose great but I know many of famous putter designers that dont mill their own work but have a great mind for design and let the guys more talented at milling make their visions come to life...which is no different. Some of the most dazzling design work in a comparative industry is "watches"...some of the tools and machines needed to produce some of these true masterpieces can take an entire lifetime to master. So does that make the guy that comes up with the designs and builds the company but has his workers implement his concepts into live product any less talented...I say absolutely not.

 

That is like saying coaches or managers or inventors have no place in there product being successful. But you are right he is no different then the other putter makers...by that I mean he is just another person like you and me. Although one with a better skill at this point for marketing and ideations then the others you listed. Nead is doing a hellova job though. Many people knock Scotty for the same reason they knock other people. Because he is successful and those same people wish they could be in his spot. The man has copied a lot of designs but it is almost a neccessity in that industry.

 

Like I have stated before some of his best work that was outside the box like everyone says they want from him so bad they are so quick to knock.

 

I find it funny because the guy doesn't even make his own putters. He has others mill it for him. I get a lot of flak because I call his company a knockoff company... which, in the barebones of it, it is. His most popular designs were other peoples.

From Wikipedia, with sources if anyone's interested in digging deeper:

 

Putter heads for Titleist's Scotty Cameron brand were manufactured by X-cel Golf/Bettinardi between 1993 and 1997. Slivnik Machining Inc., who with Scotty Cameron jointly hold the patent on the Tei3 putter,[4] and K-Tech Machine Inc.[5] have also made putters for the brand. Interestingly, with all the success Cameron has had building his reputation as a putter maker, Cameron has never owned his own machine shop and all his putters bearing his name have been outsourced to third party manufactures.

 

He even left Mizuno (in '92) because they didn't want to make his Anser clone. He got his lucky break when Bernhard Langer won the '93 Masters with his prototype. In my eyes, he's no different than Mannkrafted, Piretti, Nead, or anyone similar... good stuff, but it's a putter. There is no "be all, end all" of putters. If there were, there'd only be one brand out there- especially on Tour, where all of them are looking for that competitive edge (and larger bank accounts). It's about finding the one that's right for YOU... not what all the fanatics want you to believe.

 

You had every right to call it a POS. The turth hurts, and as much as those things run, it ought to hold up a little better than that. To me, it sounds more like "you get what they give you (while paying for the right to use that name brand, its sponsorships and advertising fees) at the price they want and you'll like it" and not "you get what you pay for". Of course, if it was a "lesser" brand, component, or clone headcover that did that, you'd get ridiculed for using "cheap" gear.

[HoosierGolfer]

I find it funny because the guy doesn't even make his own putters. He has others mill it for him.

 

True but can you name which custom builders mill their putters in house?

[RookieBlue7]

True but can you name which custom builders mill their putters in house?

They're both on here and can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe LaMont (his mannkrafted not the ssb, which i dont know about) and Gene Nead both do, as does, I believe, Tom Slighter.

[Moecat]

Byron Morgan and Robert Bettinardi make custom putters in-house as well

[GolfSpy_X]

Yes and how many of those sell enough putters that they need to think about doing large production runs because of their demand. If any of their demand gets big enough they will get someone to mill their putters as well.

 

You guys might be shocked who ACTUALLY mills most of these small guys putters.

 

They're both on here and can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe LaMont (his mannkrafted not the ssb, which i dont know about) and Gene Nead both do, as does, I believe, Tom Slighter.

[PutterLounge.com]

Justin I am not a Scotty Collector nor have I ever drank the Kool-Aid I will preface my response with that.

 

Scotty does not mill all his own putters now and it would be impossible for him to. His demand is too high at this point to be able to sustain that work load. What do golfers expect him to do...work 48 hrs a dat 10 days a week 700 days a year milling putters by himself on a Bridgeport? And I never understood why that made you a good putter designer or not. Learning how to be skilled at any of those machines takes years and years of practice. Which if that is the route you choose great but I know many of famous putter designers that dont mill their own work but have a great mind for design and let the guys more talented at milling make their visions come to life...which is no different. Some of the most dazzling design work in a comparative industry is "watches"...some of the tools and machines needed to produce some of these true masterpieces can take an entire lifetime to master. So does that make the guy that comes up with the designs and builds the company but has his workers implement his concepts into live product any less talented...I say absolutely not.

 

That is like saying coaches or managers or inventors have no place in there product being successful. But you are right he is no different then the other putter makers...by that I mean he is just another person like you and me. Although one with a better skill at this point for marketing and ideations then the others you listed. Nead is doing a hellova job though. Many people knock Scotty for the same reason they knock other people. Because he is successful and those same people wish they could be in his spot. The man has copied a lot of designs but it is almost a neccessity in that industry.

 

Like I have stated before some of his best work that was outside the box like everyone says they want from him so bad they are so quick to knock.

 

Well Said. Personally, I would be more comfortable over a $100 putt with a flat stick that was made to exact specifications by experts with access to the best equipment in the world than I would with a putter that was made by hand in someones garage. I agree with GolfSpy X - You can't rag on a person / business just because they are great at what they do.

[HoosierGolfer]

Yes and how many of those sell enough putters that they need to think about doing large production runs because of their demand. If any of their demand gets big enough they will get someone to mill their putters as well.

 

You guys might be shocked who ACTUALLY mills most of these small guys putters.

 

What I have always found to be even more shocking is that people will sling mud all day long about Cameron while having no idea who really made the custom putter in their own bag. *See drinking the Kool-Aid!

For the most part, most of the custom builders are far from being transparent. If I were in the market for a custom putter, from any builder, I would be asking some serious questions.

Cameron is not alone when it comes to crafty marketing scheme's. He has lots of company in that area.

[golfluvzme]

I have it on very good authority that Scotty, if needed, could fire up a mill and do just what you guys seem to think he can't do, mill a putter.

I have been fortunate enough to create a few of my own designs, in-house from billet. Through my associations and friendships, it has been an incredible past several years learning a ton of methods, shortcuts, and ways of creating looks that a lot of guys never have the chance to learn. You will not find a better bunch of guys than the ones who have decided to make the world of putters, their endeavor of choice.

I have never met Scotty, myself, but spoke to a very nice gentleman, this past Saturday who has a bit of a friendship with him. In his words, "He is the coolest guy you would ever hope to meet." Somehow, I think that his probably true. I believe that it is some of the followers who have given us the sour taste in our mouths regarding the world of Scotty Cameron. Some of them seem to go overboard in their efforts to police those who would tread against him..............to each his own.

I say that the putter world is better off, long term, because Scotty came along, but like anyone else, his closet has its fair share of skeletons.

NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LaMont in AZ

[jamo]

I have never met Scotty, myself, but spoke to a very nice gentleman, this past Saturday who has a bit of a friendship with him. In his words, "He is the coolest guy you would ever hope to meet." Somehow, I think that his probably true. I believe that it is some of the followers who have given us the sour taste in our mouths regarding the world of Scotty Cameron. Some of them seem to go overboard in their efforts to police those who would tread against him..............to each his own.

I say that the putter world is better off, long term, because Scotty came along, but like anyone else, his closet has its fair share of skeletons.

NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LaMont in AZ

 

Scotty Cameron has to have the best job in golf. I'd be happy too.

[HoosierGolfer]

I have it on very good authority that Scotty, if needed, could fire up a mill and do just what you guys seem to think he can't do, mill a putter.

I have been fortunate enough to create a few of my own designs, in-house from billet. Through my associations and friendships, it has been an incredible past several years learning a ton of methods, shortcuts, and ways of creating looks that a lot of guys never have the chance to learn. You will not find a better bunch of guys than the ones who have decided to make the world of putters, their endeavor of choice.

I have never met Scotty, myself, but spoke to a very nice gentleman, this past Saturday who has a bit of a friendship with him. In his words, "He is the coolest guy you would ever hope to meet." Somehow, I think that his probably true. I believe that it is some of the followers who have given us the sour taste in our mouths regarding the world of Scotty Cameron. Some of them seem to go overboard in their efforts to police those who would tread against him..............to each his own.

I say that the putter world is better off, long term, because Scotty came along, but like anyone else, his closet has its fair share of skeletons.

NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LaMont in AZ

 

Spot on LaMont. I agree that Cameron has changed the face of custom putter building, for the better I would think. Lots of guys would not be where they are today or would not be in business if not for Cameron.

As you know well, I have a certain distain for some of the builders who muddy the facts not only about others but themselves. Clever marketing scheme's have reshaped the custom club building landscape and we can thank Cameron for that. When one dog becomes the leader, the other dogs will follow.

I tip my hat to those that are willing to be transparent, like yourself and take credit only where credit is due. So many others are nothing more than a charade.